HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:15 pm**

Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:44 pm**

old goalie85 wrote:Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?

I believe the districts DO keep standings, but privately, and use them to seed the teams for the squirt "festival" after the season.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:38 pm**

old goalie85 wrote:Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?

Kidding me????

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:44 pm**

defense wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?
Kidding me????[/quot

most states around mn have state tournaments at the squirt level. Why not in MN (especially at the A level). They keep score and play for championships in tournaments all season long. USA hockey AAA tea
s play for a nation championship, why not here.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:24 pm**

High Off The Glass wrote:
defense wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?
Kidding me????[/quot

most states around mn have state tournaments at the squirt level. Why not in MN (especially at the A level). They keep score and play for championships in tournaments all season long. USA hockey AAA tea
s play for a nation championship, why not here.
So that makes it right for us? Does it matter to the kids? at 10 and 11??? Or is the question really about the parents egos? We spend enough effort with squirts trying to encourage parents to do the right thing now, think about if rankings were on the line... poor johnny would get a contract or dad disowns him?? Parent competitiveness....... Have the kids learn the true love of the game... Just my .02

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:39 pm**

skills_coach1 wrote:
High Off The Glass wrote:
defense wrote: Kidding me????[/quot

most states around mn have state tournaments at the squirt level. Why not in MN (especially at the A level). They keep score and play for championships in tournaments all season long. USA hockey AAA tea
s play for a nation championship, why not here.
So that makes it right for us? Does it matter to the kids? at 10 and 11??? Or is the question really about the parents egos? We spend enough effort with squirts trying to encourage parents to do the right thing now, think about if rankings were on the line... poor johnny would get a contract or dad disowns him?? Parent competitiveness....... Have the kids learn the true love of the game... Just my .02
Nobody is talking about rankings, the question was STANDINGS...big difference. And yes, it does matter to the kids. Just as it does in baseball, basketball, football and soccer. Kids like to play games and compete and see how they compare to others.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:22 pm**

Do you have a champ for football, baseball[yea right!!!!!, basketball, and are you people ready, TRACK......HA HA HA EASY TO TALL THE WINNER.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:51 pm**

How could there be a difference between the 1st place finish in the XXX tourny,[GET THE "PRIZE", whatever, that may-be, per program. AND-OR, the teams that they know they play in highschool. My 4 younger kids all know who big brother plays, but, is that not GOOD[ bad english! to bad for them.[THE ENGLISH AND CANADANS]

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:36 am**

old goalie85 wrote:How could there be a difference between the 1st place finish in the XXX tourny,[GET THE "PRIZE", whatever, that may-be, per program. AND-OR, the teams that they know they play in highschool. My 4 younger kids all know who big brother plays, but, is that not GOOD[ bad english! to bad for them.[THE ENGLISH AND CANADANS]

What? Now that your sober, please translate!

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:27 am**

High Off The Glass wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:How could there be a difference between the 1st place finish in the XXX tourny,[GET THE "PRIZE", whatever, that may-be, per program. AND-OR, the teams that they know they play in highschool. My 4 younger kids all know who big brother plays, but, is that not GOOD[ bad english! to bad for them.[THE ENGLISH AND CANADANS]
What? Now that your sober, please translate!

My head hurts.

They keep standings in baseball, football, basketball and school for this age group. Is it because Hockey has the reputation for overzealous parents so they fear keeping track ? I've seen just as bad if not worse behavior from parents in basketball, baseball and football. As with everything there are a few bad apples that make the whole look bad ... keeping standing isn't bad in and of itself. Over the top parents will not be corrected/fixed by not keeping standings.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:56 am**

Thanks again to s_c1 for choosing to rake on parents, but if he would have made his statements generally, he would have done a better job representing the side of 'no standings-no tournament'. The philosophy is: you don't track standings and you don't have a year end tourney because squirt hockey is suppose to be developmental. The coach is more likely to roll lines (including special teams), even though it may cost a game, but less likely if it costs a season.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:04 am**

Another thing about standings is that you then are required to play a set group of teams. This may not be a big deal in the Twin Cities, but in out state areas it causes tons of travel, beyond where you would go if you were not required to play the games.

It really makes me wonder about standings at all levels. A weak Bantam team with no chance at the district tournament is required to travel 3 hours one way on a friged day in January to get pounded...all because of the league schedule. Seems foolish to me.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:22 am**

High Off The Glass wrote:
defense wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Should Squirts Keep Standings At District Level. If Not Why Keep Score?
Kidding me????[/quot

most states around mn have state tournaments at the squirt level. Why not in MN (especially at the A level). They keep score and play for championships in tournaments all season long. USA hockey AAA tea
s play for a nation championship, why not here.
USAH has a national championship tournament for squirts????

Last I heard USAH was considering dropping pee-wee nationals.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:27 am**

In D16 we do not keep standings, we do not require district 'league' games'.

At year-end we have an a A squirt toruney and 2 B level tourneys.
We meet and divide them up on a guess and by golly method trying to put the top 3 teams in appropriate brackets/pools but NO ONE worries about it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:29 pm**

elliott70 wrote:In D16 we do not keep standings, we do not require district 'league' games'.

At year-end we have an a A squirt toruney and 2 B level tourneys.
We meet and divide them up on a guess and by golly method trying to put the top 3 teams in appropriate brackets/pools but NO ONE worries about it.

Welcome back Elliott!

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 pm**

elliott70 wrote:In D16 we do not keep standings, we do not require district 'league' games'.

At year-end we have an a A squirt toruney and 2 B level tourneys.
We meet and divide them up on a guess and by golly method trying to put the top 3 teams in appropriate brackets/pools but NO ONE worries about it.

I think, generally speaking, in the cities teams declare if they are A, B etc. and there is year end district tournament for each level they participated in during the year but no standing kept and seeding is done by coaches. I'm not "plugged in" but I don't hear a lot of complaints.

May sound nice to say and with all due respect but I bet there ARE some that worry about it in your district. There seem to be over the top parents everywhere ... MOST down here don't get to worked about it either. But unfortunately, like politics the ones that do get worked up are the loud ones and sometimes venture on this board giving everyone with a squirt player a bad name.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:24 pm**

Question: Is it considered getting "worked up" if one asks the question: Why is it OK for 10 year olds in other sports to "keep score" and have end of the season playoffs (which they love, btw) and for some reason in hockey it's considered taboo? Honest question.

I don't think asking those types of question should necessarily brand a parent as being "out of control". I'm just curious, and have always wondered, why those in control of Minnesota Hockey feel the way they do...and then label those who may disagree with their philosophy as somehow overbearing parents?

And for those who think that kids "don't care"....you're either cluess or lying to yourself. Believe me, they do.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:38 pm**

Muckandgrin I can't agree with you more. Do the parents have fun with this? Darn right and whats wrong with it? Do the kids have fun watching scores and following standing? Absolutley. Squirts keep score, have District playoffs and in my opinion, why not have a Squirt State Tournament? We go to tournaments during the season where there's a competitive atmosphere and the kids get a chance to thrive in the atmosphere. Even at 10 and 11 they can learn a lot from a competitive environment and attempt to play to the best of their ability. Kids do get it at this age and thats pefectly ok.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:27 pm**

Lots of 10U state baseball tourneys. Got to see the MSF A state tourney a couple years back. Kids seemed to have fun, I had fun - good baseball being played by good baseball teams. 10-year olds are smart enough to know the difference between a tourney in Chaska or Woodbury and the state tourney.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:36 pm**

muckandgrind wrote:Question: Is it considered getting "worked up" if one asks the question: Why is it OK for 10 year olds in other sports to "keep score" and have end of the season playoffs (which they love, btw) and for some reason in hockey it's considered taboo? Honest question.

I don't think asking those types of question should necessarily brand a parent as being "out of control". I'm just curious, and have always wondered, why those in control of Minnesota Hockey feel the way they do...and then label those who may disagree with their philosophy as somehow overbearing parents?

And for those who think that kids "don't care"....you're either cluess or lying to yourself. Believe me, they do.

I'm not sure who your addressing but if its me then I would like to clarify in that my response I used the term worked up in response to others that say people who want to keep score, standings etc. are "getting worked up" and over bearing. I agree with you, and I'm guessing most everyone does that keeping scores and standings is fun for the kids and parents ... even if it is not politically correct to say that. Like always people just need to keep it all in perspective and remember whatever the outcome its not a big deal. If parents need help understanding that then ask the kids for help ... they seem to get it more often than the parents. Ever see a kid after a tough loss or losing season ? They seem to get over it far faster than the parents do.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:57 pm**

silentbutdeadly3139 wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:Question: Is it considered getting "worked up" if one asks the question: Why is it OK for 10 year olds in other sports to "keep score" and have end of the season playoffs (which they love, btw) and for some reason in hockey it's considered taboo? Honest question.

I don't think asking those types of question should necessarily brand a parent as being "out of control". I'm just curious, and have always wondered, why those in control of Minnesota Hockey feel the way they do...and then label those who may disagree with their philosophy as somehow overbearing parents?

And for those who think that kids "don't care"....you're either cluess or lying to yourself. Believe me, they do.
I'm not sure who your addressing but if its me then I would like to clarify in that my response I used the term worked up in response to others that say people who want to keep score, standings etc. are "getting worked up" and over bearing. I agree with you, and I'm guessing most everyone does that keeping scores and standings is fun for the kids and parents ... even if it is not politically correct to say that. Like always people just need to keep it all in perspective and remember whatever the outcome its not a big deal. If parents need help understanding that then ask the kids for help ... they seem to get it more often than the parents. Ever see a kid after a tough loss or losing season ? They seem to get over it far faster than the parents do.

Agreed. The same can be said for Pee Wees, Bantams, and High School as well.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:21 pm**

I thought there was a MN Hockey rule AGAINST keeping or publishing standings at the Squirt level.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:37 pm**

There was a similar debate last year. I will try to convey my thoughts as clearly as I can.
First, I hear a lot of the argument of "if football does it, and baseball, why is hockey different???" You answered your own question, hockey IS DIFFERENT. The game of hockey requires a great deal more skills as well as more difficult skills than does baseball, or football. For instance, humans naturally walk and run, they do not naturally skate. For this reason, I believe that kids at this level are still largely developing their personal skills. Most players at this level are not even completely comfortable skating much less stick handling. We all know that the teams who win at this level(and that is the purpose of having standings, to see who wins more) play a system. The team with the better system will be the top team. In order to have a good system, you must practice it. If you spend more of your ice time practicing your system, you will spend less on skill developement.
On the other hand, there is only so much you can do with a flyball. The shortstop fields the ball and throws to the best base.......a lineman has to know wich way to push his opposition.....a quarterback is told who to throw or hand to.

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:21 am**

1. There is nothing natural about hitting a round ball with a round bat. The only reason it seems even remotely so, is that most American kids start doing it with big bats and big balls as soon as they can stand.

2. The youth football teams that win, win with systems. Those systems take time away from individual blocking and tackling skills.

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:21 am**

defense wrote:There was a similar debate last year. I will try to convey my thoughts as clearly as I can.
First, I hear a lot of the argument of "if football does it, and baseball, why is hockey different???" You answered your own question, hockey IS DIFFERENT. The game of hockey requires a great deal more skills as well as more difficult skills than does baseball, or football. For instance, humans naturally walk and run, they do not naturally skate. For this reason, I believe that kids at this level are still largely developing their personal skills. Most players at this level are not even completely comfortable skating much less stick handling. We all know that the teams who win at this level(and that is the purpose of having standings, to see who wins more) play a system. The team with the better system will be the top team. In order to have a good system, you must practice it. If you spend more of your ice time practicing your system, you will spend less on skill developement.
On the other hand, there is only so much you can do with a flyball. The shortstop fields the ball and throws to the best base.......a lineman has to know wich way to push his opposition.....a quarterback is told who to throw or hand to.

I don't buy that argument.

If you're right, then why even allow Squirts to play in tournaments or games at all? The answer is simple, games and tournaments are fun for the players....because ultimately, when you strip it all down, that's what it is.....a game. Sometimes I think that all gets lost in this talk about development, development, development. People forget that ultimately, hockey is nothing more than a game.

Relatively speaking, hockey is no different at all than other sports...except for the fact that by the time a player has reached the Squirt level, most of them have been involved with the sport for 3-4 years while it's usually their first year in a sport like football.

To say hitting a baseball or hitting a jump shot doesn't require a skill that needs to be perfected is ludicrous as well. One of the most difficult things to do in all of sports is hit a baseball, IMO.

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Squirt Hockey Standings

Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings

Re: Squirt Hockey Standings