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carbon monoxide

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:21 pm
by trippedovertheblueline
from www.complete-hockey.com click on aaa or tier 1 find carbon monoxide post.. scary stuff


CO poisoning
No score for this post November 13 2009, 7:16 AM


There are a lot of problems around the country - where are the carbon monoxide level detectors in Ice Rinks - sounds like multiple problems or a combination of them all to me and ice rinks don't seem to have the CO detectors. Is there a logical reason for this? Shouldn't AHAI or USA Hockey look at the number of reports from ice rinks that this is a problem or do we have to wait for someone to die or get permanent brain damage from it. The players and figure skaters in the rinks will get it worse since they are exercising. Seems like a simple solution instead arguing here about a bus exhaust or Zamboni - I don't think it really matters to the people who get the poisoning if a CO detector could have had the building evacuated. Should AHAI have inspections with meters during tournaments? Doesn't seem too hard unless they know already that most of the rinks have high levels and the money is too great for the tournament to shut down.



1. From Cleveland paperearlier in the year

March 16, 2009, 12:02PM
GATES MILLS — Fire Chief Thomas Robinson said there were several reasons that a half dozen people became ill at a Gilmour Academy ice rink Saturday and a hockey tournament was delayed.

The ice-grooming equipment was not functioning properly. The ventilation system was not supplying enough outside air and hockey team buses were parked and running too close to the arena's air-intake area, he said.


2. From the EPA
Sources of Carbon Monoxide

Unvented kerosene and gas space heaters; leaking chimneys and furnaces; back-drafting from furnaces, gas water heaters, wood stoves, and fireplaces; gas stoves; generators and other gasoline powered equipment; automobile exhaust from attached garages; and tobacco smoke. Incomplete oxidation during combustion in gas ranges and unvented gas or kerosene heaters may cause high concentrations of CO in indoor air. Worn or poorly adjusted and maintained combustion devices (e.g., boilers, furnaces) can be significant sources, or if the flue is improperly sized, blocked, disconnected, or is leaking. Auto, truck, or bus exhaust from attached garages, nearby roads, or parking areas can also be a source.

3. From Virginia
Based on the investigation, the source of CO was determined to be a malfunction of the ice-resurfacing machine (the only source of combustion in the arena). The building's ventilation system, which alternates with a dehumidifier, may have been off during operation of the machine. An open access door from the ice arena to the bingo hall probably permitted CO to diffuse throughout the facility.

Use of the ice-resurfacing machine was discontinued, and the machine was replaced by a newer model. Until a CO detector system is installed in the arena, ambient CO levels are monitored after each ice resurfacing. To assist in preventing future CO poisonings at the arena, the Seattle-King County Health Department advised the arena manager to submit a CO-monitoring plan to the health department.

Reported by: NB Hampson, MD, Virginia Mason Medical Center, Seattle. Air Pollution and Respiratory Health

4. From Hocksett Sept 2009
n April, ESPN Magazine tested carbon monoxide levels at Tri-Town and 39 other ice skating facilities around the country after numerous hockey players became sick from carbon monoxide. The report said the level of carbon monoxide at Tri-Town's facility was more than double the acceptable limit.

The report said Tri-Town's carbon monoxide level was at 74 parts per million; 35 parts per million is considered dangerous and 64 parts per million can cause flu-like symptoms.

The latest incident occurred Sunday night when elevated levels of carbon monoxide activated alarms that are connected to the Hooksett Fire Department. Firefighters evacuated the building before anyone could get sick.

Williams said the gas was emitted from a machine that resurfaces the ice. He said a combination of the machine malfunctioning and human error caused the high carbon monoxide levels.

5. From MN
Minnesota state law is supposed to protect you from toxic air in indoor ice rinks, but 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS discovered that law is not being strictly enforced.


Machines used to resurface ice are powered by gas, diesel or propane and produce carbon monoxide and nitrogen dioxide fumes that can hang in the air of indoor rinks.


A state law on the books since 1973, requires rinks to test air quality weekly when the rink is in full use. The law requires the rinks to report their findings to the state health department.


A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS inspection of health department files found some tests were run when the rink wasn’t in use and other tests done with inadequate equipment.


Some rinks, including those in Austin and Worthington, weren’t conducting any tests.


Others, like the Schwan’s Rink in Blaine, were conducting tests, but not submitting the results.


Assistant manager Bill Gasner said, “We are suppose to send them in, but like I said it is not even a slap on the wrist if we don’t.”


Dale Dorschner with the health department admitted officials don’t know if the air quality is safe in indoor rinks.


Ice skating coach Linda Davis of West St. Paul thinks the state should know. She was diagnosed in February with low level carbon monoxide poisoning. Her doctor thinks she was poisoned at one or more of the rinks where she works.


Davis experienced confusion and other symptoms.


She said, “I had such a difficult time breathing, my heart, I felt like I was having a heart attack.”


In 2007, kids and a referee got sick at a hockey tournament in Carlon. The rink operators admitted they didn’t test carbon monoxide levels because they didn’t think it was required by law.


The Bemidji Hockey Board sent a letter to families after someone got sick after a resurfacer malfunctioned during a tournament last winter.


The Minnesota Health Department has investigated seven cases of possible carbon monoxide poisoning related to indoor rinks in the past three years.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:05 am
by Reggie
Tell this to Ely, there zamboni smokes u out of the rink, ur close stink when u leave the rink.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:55 pm
by elliott70
I believe the State of MN law requires daily readings with weekly submission to an oversight board.

The Bemidji occurrence happened as a result of a loose fitting (if I remember right) and was a problem for one game or practice. It was noticed almost immediately. I believe only one person suffered after extended time at the arena.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:59 pm
by elliott70
I will bring this to the MH board meeting and perhaps MN Board can send out (MIAMA has a board member sit in at our meetings) info to all local assns and arenas to provide more asssurance that testing/monitoring is being done.

After all the local assn pay the fees for ice.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:39 pm
by buttend
elliott70 wrote:I will bring this to the MH board meeting and perhaps MN Board can send out (MIAMA has a board member sit in at our meetings) info to all local assns and arenas to provide more asssurance that testing/monitoring is being done.

After all the local assn pay the fees for ice.
Last winter there was a Peewee team from Maple Grove, I believe, that went out of town for a tournament and the kids got sick, CO poisioning, due to a bad heater in a locker room... Tests would needs to cover the entire area facility not just the ice area.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:49 pm
by elliott70
buttend wrote:
elliott70 wrote:I will bring this to the MH board meeting and perhaps MN Board can send out (MIAMA has a board member sit in at our meetings) info to all local assns and arenas to provide more asssurance that testing/monitoring is being done.

After all the local assn pay the fees for ice.
Last winter there was a Peewee team from Maple Grove, I believe, that went out of town for a tournament and the kids got sick, CO poisioning, due to a bad heater in a locker room... Tests would needs to cover the entire area facility not just the ice area.
I will note that.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:57 pm
by elliott70
Info has been given to Mke Snee to put something on the MH web page and email to all locla assn.

Also will be on the winter meeting agenda.

Also the regional VPs will bring it to the attention of all DD's to take further action on educating.

Anything else anyone can think of??????

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:05 pm
by sorno82
Don't forget the other major combustion product-NO2. High levels of NO2 can lead to lung damage due to it turning into Nitric acid in the lungs. Zamboni's need to be tuned properly since faulty combustion can lead to too much CO or NO2-pick your poison.

You must address both. Back in the early 90s, the Coon Rapids High School team had some serious issues and illnesses due to high NO2 due to Zamboni exhaust (Aldrich arena?).

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:17 pm
by elliott70
sorno82 wrote:Don't forget the other major combustion product-NO2. High levels of NO2 can lead to lung damage due to it turning into Nitric acid in the lungs. Zamboni's need to be tuned properly since faulty combustion can lead to too much CO or NO2-pick your poison.

You must address both. Back in the early 90s, the Coon Rapids High School team had some serious issues and illnesses due to high NO2 due to Zamboni exhaust (Aldrich arena?).
Thanks Sorno.

I will re-send my email and add NO2

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:27 pm
by elliott70
Mike Snee just emailed me and it is in process to go on the webpage and in LETS PLAY HOCKEY mag.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:59 pm
by headsup
"Don't forget the other major combustion product-NO2. High levels of NO2 can lead to lung damage due to it turning into Nitric acid in the lungs. Zamboni's need to be tuned properly since faulty combustion can lead to too much CO or NO2-pick your poison.

You must address both. Back in the early 90s, the Coon Rapids High School team had some serious issues and illnesses due to high NO2 due to Zamboni exhaust (Aldrich arena?)."

Cook arena in Coon Rapids 1987. I remember this. Many friends / fans also had immediate & lasting effects including coughing up blood. Would be a nasty issue in today's 'litigation era' if these rinks neglect to test regularly.

TV

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:04 pm
by F14
Did all of you see the story on TV last month about HOW the state is suppose to collect air data but doesn't?

THey interviewed the Manager of the Super Rink and he said they never have asked for it.

Between the TV story last month and the newspaper article, hopefully they will start reporting on a regular basis.

I know a tournament in Bemidji last year that our association participated in over 5 parents and kids reported really bad headaches from bad air (they thought CO2)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:27 pm
by playwithyourgrade
e70

read the carbon monoxide posts at the complete-hockey.com site

amazing we don't hear more about it, i guess the lack of buses at our trnys is just another reason MN association hockey is best.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/611706/

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:29 pm
by PoniesDad45
I work for a public utility in the Gas Emergency Department. I worked in the field checking gas leaks and Carbon Monoxide concerns for 10 years and have been in the office for the last 11 years or so.

If you have any concern at all, if you think you smell gas or a bad combustion odor, DO NOT hesitate to call the local gas company. You don't have to even tell the rink manager if you don't want to draw attention to yourself, just call the company direct. They will send a serviceperson out to do a simple CO check in the breathing air and if they feel further investigation is warranted, they will do it.

This service is in the rates we all pay. Remember, carbon monoxide affects smaller people more quickly and more profoundly and that means children.

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:21 pm
by sorno82
A lot of rinks use battery powered Zamboni's now. Should not be a problem at most rinks like the superrink.

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:41 pm
by GoWild
[quote="Reggie"]Tell this to Ely, there zamboni smokes u out of the rink, ur close stink when u leave the rink.[/quote]

Awh! go cry to your mommy! Unlike u rich people our school has no money to get a new Zamboni!