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Oops.

It looks like two St. Cloud Youth Hockey teams will be on probation this year and narrowly missed thousands of dollars in fines by having their girls U10 team and Squirt A team play more games than allowed.

A technicality in D10 handbook (which it appears will be changed) prevented the district from socking them with fines. Lucky for them. Someone better be more careful in the future. I don't think we can afford that kind of money flying out the door.

Wrong forum--should be in the Youth Hockey Forum

It's been moved.

Lee

4theparents wrote:Oops.

It looks like two St. Cloud Youth Hockey teams will be on probation this year and narrowly missed thousands of dollars in fines by having their girls U10 team and Squirt A team play more games than allowed.

A technicality in D10 handbook (which it appears will be changed) prevented the district from socking them with fines. Lucky for them. Someone better be more careful in the future. I don't think we can afford that kind of money flying out the door.

There is NO excuse for that happening. Back when we were working with the youth teams, it was made VERY clear to the coaches and managers how many games they could play, and it was checked up on regularly. Somehow the folks in charge in St. Cloud's youth hockey have dropped the ball. If memory serves, there is a paid administrator that should have been on top of that. This is crazy and heads should roll. (Very serious with that statement!

Blue&Gold wrote:

4theparents wrote:Oops.

It looks like two St. Cloud Youth Hockey teams will be on probation this year and narrowly missed thousands of dollars in fines by having their girls U10 team and Squirt A team play more games than allowed.

A technicality in D10 handbook (which it appears will be changed) prevented the district from socking them with fines. Lucky for them. Someone better be more careful in the future. I don't think we can afford that kind of money flying out the door.

There is NO excuse for that happening. Back when we were working with the youth teams, it was made VERY clear to the coaches and managers how many games they could play, and it was checked up on regularly. Somehow the folks in charge in St. Cloud's youth hockey have dropped the ball. If memory serves, there is a paid administrator that should have been on top of that. This is crazy and heads should roll. (Very serious with that statement!

Ive seen the A coach in action. I'm not surprised at all by this. He was "intense", to put it mildly, with officials and everyone around him to put it mildly from the drop of a puck through the final horn ... and this was when they were winning handily

To add to it, the D10 A Squirt Coordinator is from St. Cloud...NICE

Don't watch your own back yard...

It's not the D10 Coordinator's job at any level to monitor the number of games played by a team in his/her town. They have nothing to do with the local organization where they reside and shouldn't. This issue is strictly the coach and the age level coordinator and possibly someone from the board.

But come on. If I'm coaching a team, I'm not tracking the number of games and scrimmages that count as games. At worst, my assistant or manager should have a clue.

western wrote:It's not the D10 Coordinator's job at any level to monitor the number of games played by a team in his/her town. They have nothing to do with the local organization where they reside and shouldn't. This issue is strictly the coach and the age level coordinator and possibly someone from the board.

But come on. If I'm coaching a team, I'm not tracking the number of games and scrimmages that count as games. At worst, my assistant or manager should have a clue.

WRONG! If you're the coach, you ARE responsible for tracking just that very thing. Been there, done that.. Let me rephrase, if you're a GOOD coach, you are tracking that very thing.

Sorry:

I meant to say I AM tracking it as coach and at worst my assitants and manager are. But you're right. If a coach can't count..............

Delete

TellItHowItIs wrote:To be honest this happens all the time, just not many teams get caught. I know coaches that run scrimages and I was told they count, but they are not included. I have also seen it happen before and most assocaition and districts do NOTHING for the game overage. IMO. someone must have had a Beef with the Caoch and this was the way they knew they could get them in trouble.

Question: Why Penalize the Squirts / U10's. My guess is MOst of those kids move up to the next level - so they are not effected by the penalty. How about all the Kids on next years squirt / U10 team that had nothing to do with this years team ???

Not sure if its same everywhere scrimmages DON'T count as long as it is a teaching scrimmage where coaches are on the ice and "stopping play for teaching purposes" which is very liberal interpretation. It must have been pretty obvious to get caught. You are correct in that it is policed not by the district but by others, at least that is what I've read on this bored. Yep, apparently the coach, someone associated with team, or association has made some enemies. Karma?

4theparents wrote:Oops.

It looks like two St. Cloud Youth Hockey teams will be on probation this year and narrowly missed thousands of dollars in fines by having their girls U10 team and Squirt A team play more games than allowed.

A technicality in D10 handbook (which it appears will be changed) prevented the district from socking them with fines. Lucky for them. Someone better be more careful in the future. I don't think we can afford that kind of money flying out the door.

Who was going impose the "thousands of dollars" in fines and upon whom was this fine going to be levied against?

Not sure if its same everywhere scrimmages DON'T count as long as it is a teaching scrimmage where coaches are on the ice and "stopping play for teaching purposes" which is very liberal interpretation.

MNH rules state:
"Controlled scrimmages count toward the total of 35"

They way I understand it, the fines are imposed against both the team and the association. I think it is about $500 per game that is gone over and can't remember if it is $500 each against the team and the association for each game that you go over. Something to that effect.

Also, I have heard that it is EVERY squirt team in St. Cloud that will be on probation for this, not just the team that committed the infraction. Don't know if all SCYHA girls teams will be on probation, but I think so.

Who has the power to impose the fines? The District and MN Hockey?

TellItHowItIs wrote:To be honest this happens all the time, just not many teams get caught. I know coaches that run scrimages and I was told they count, but they are not included. I have also seen it happen before and most assocaition and districts do NOTHING for the game overage. IMO. someone must have had a Beef with the Caoch and this was the way they knew they could get them in trouble.

Question: Why Penalize the Squirts / U10's. My guess is MOst of those kids move up to the next level - so they are not effected by the penalty. How about all the Kids on next years squirt / U10 team that had nothing to do with this years team ???

All the time??
Where is that at?

western wrote:They way I understand it, the fines are imposed against both the team and the association. I think it is about $500 per game that is gone over and can't remember if it is $500 each against the team and the association for each game that you go over. Something to that effect.

Also, I have heard that it is EVERY squirt team in St. Cloud that will be on probation for this, not just the team that committed the infraction. Don't know if all SCYHA girls teams will be on probation, but I think so.

Who has the power to impose the fines? The District and MN Hockey?

The district would impose the fines.

Fines would be the best.
Half the kids go to Peewee’s and the other half of next years Squirts would be moving in from Initiation program to serve a probation. What ever that would be?

Usually most of the “A’s” are second year anyhow in a big program.

Maybe that team should pay the fine? Only they benefited?

Waht does "probation" mean to a squirt team?

"Failure to comply will result in sanctions against the respective Association as determined by MH."

Not sure if its same everywhere scrimmages DON'T count as long as it is a teaching scrimmage where coaches are on the ice and "stopping play for teaching purposes" which is very liberal interpretation. It must have been pretty obvious to get caught. You are correct in that it is policed not by the district but by others, at least that is what I've read on this bored. Yep, apparently the coach, someone associated with team, or association has made some enemies. Karma?

MNH rules state:
"Controlled scrimmages count toward the total of 35"

Precisely why most coaches just schedule "shared practices" to be on the safe side.

western wrote:They way I understand it, the fines are imposed against both the team and the association. I think it is about $500 per game that is gone over and can't remember if it is $500 each against the team and the association for each game that you go over. Something to that effect.

Also, I have heard that it is EVERY squirt team in St. Cloud that will be on probation for this, not just the team that committed the infraction. Don't know if all SCYHA girls teams will be on probation, but I think so.

Who has the power to impose the fines? The District and MN Hockey?

Does this not alarm or bother others?

A State level youth hockey monolopy, would allow their District level ( Non profit entity) youth hockey orginization, to fine, collect money, from a community based youth ( Non Profit) hockey Association, made up of volunteers, community members, parents because a particular team did not follow the guidelines / and played too much hockey! I can see a slap on the wrist, tournament limits, no district tournament but monetary fines?

From Mn Hockey Youth rules:

H. SQUIRT HOCKEY – MH strongly encourages the skill development of all players especially at the entry levels. Therefore, the following is effective for the squirt level.
1. No league standings shall be kept.
2. Limit games (league/ tournament/exhibition games) to a maximum of 35 per season. Each game played in a tournament shall be counted as one game. Controlled scrimmages count toward the total of 35, but must meet the definition of a controlled scrimmage as outlined in the paragraph in the Playing Rules section entitled "Exhibition Games and Controlled Scrimmages."
3. A three to one practice to game ratio shall be supported by all associations.
4. A and B squirts must be allocated an equal quality and number of ice hours.
5. The above policies will be monitored by each local association and district. Failure to comply will result in sanctions against the respective Association as determined by MH.
6. There shall be no region or state tournaments at the squirt level


Where are the fines and sanctions when the Squirt and U10 levels dont get 105 practices to their 35 games "3 to 1 ratio"??

Districts fining affiliates is not new: not filing paperwork on time, having to reschedule a district game, not submitting game stat sheets in a timely manner, etc.

limiting the amount of hockey akid can play is ridiculous....the more you play the better you get. With that said games only is bad....I think a better balance is two practices for every one game...especially now with the trend going to four game minimum weekend tourneys. So if you play a four game weekend tourney you need to practice 12 times during the week..that is not going to happen.....

The more you play the better you get?

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Overwhelming evidence shows this is bunk. The more games vs. practice, the LESS kids develop. The more practice they have, the MORE they develop. Look at all the research. Europeans have about a 6 or7 practice to game ratio. Where are the most talented players coming from? Europe

The average youth player touches the puck about a minute or so in an entire game. How is he or she going to get better at t his rate. Good practices expotentially multiply this. This is a good policy and must be even more strongly enforced. A practice to game ratio of 3 to one isn't even enough if we hope to develop better players.

gdahl wrote:limiting the amount of hockey akid can play is ridiculous....the more you play the better you get. With that said games only is bad....I think a better balance is two practices for every one game...especially now with the trend going to four game minimum weekend tourneys. So if you play a four game weekend tourney you need to practice 12 times during the week..that is not going to happen.....

i'm about to start working on tournaments for next season, perhaps you could send me a list of those four game minimum tournaments? Thanks.

I see the trend going to more and more three game minimum for the same fees.