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State Leader Stats a Joke

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:35 am
by Sharkman
As I watch alot of hockey in the twin cities. The current leader board is misleading. You would think the top players in the state would be in the tops in scoring. They are usually sitting down in the twenty to forty spot in the scoring stats. If we could post the conference scoring leaders this would give a better indicator of the impact players with the strength of schedule in consideration.

A Krach scoring list of State Leaders would be nice. Can such a thing be done? Any ideas?

My team plays in the NWSC. Our games are usually 2-1, 3-2 etc. From top to bottom their will be no 7-0 games or 12-0 games. Therefore Impact players in the tough conference don't seemed to get recognized because they can't rack up a 7 point nights against teams that struggle in the classic suburban, Mississippi 8, Big nine and Lake conferences.

East View 12 Blooming Kennedy 0. Can you hear me now! Oh my what a game. What is happening in Bloomington?

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:14 pm
by ghshockeyfan
You could scale the stats scored by taking the krach ranking of the team into consideration. scoring a hat trick against the #124 team in the state isn't the same as doing it against #1 I'll agree with that.

But remember that some coaches score control differently too so it may be that a player scores a hat trick in the first period, team is up 6+-0 headed into 2nd and then they are sat down, limited in their role as to not run up score or protect best players etc.

Also - and my favorite - is the phantom points attached by some teams/players/coaches. If a team almost always shows a 2nd assist on their goals this may be worth looking into as to how legit it is. Either they're really good at setting up pretty plays, their officials are very good at picking up (or giving) the 2nd assist, or maybe some of those points were just given out to players that may have (or have not) been on the ice but their friend (or someone else) tacked their # on the end of the scoring sequence...

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:07 am
by Sharkman
ghshockeyfan wrote:You could scale the stats scored by taking the krach ranking of the team into consideration. scoring a hat trick against the #124 team in the state isn't the same as doing it against #1 I'll agree with that.

But remember that some coaches score control differently too so it may be that a player scores a hat trick in the first period, team is up 6+-0 headed into 2nd and then they are sat down, limited in their role as to not run up score or protect best players etc.

Also - and my favorite - is the phantom points attached by some teams/players/coaches. If a team almost always shows a 2nd assist on their goals this may be worth looking into as to how legit it is. Either they're really good at setting up pretty plays, their officials are very good at picking up (or giving) the 2nd assist, or maybe some of those points were just given out to players that may have (or have not) been on the ice but their friend (or someone else) tacked their # on the end of the scoring sequence...
That is very good insight. but watching the box scores you don't see the top players sitting. I think it rare you see it.

Are you developer the Krach system?
If so, Do you think you could develope one for scoring?

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:41 am
by OntheEdge
ghshockeyfan wrote:You could scale the stats scored by taking the krach ranking of the team into consideration. scoring a hat trick against the #124 team in the state isn't the same as doing it against #1 I'll agree with that.

But remember that some coaches score control differently too so it may be that a player scores a hat trick in the first period, team is up 6+-0 headed into 2nd and then they are sat down, limited in their role as to not run up score or protect best players etc.

Also - and my favorite - is the phantom points attached by some teams/players/coaches. If a team almost always shows a 2nd assist on their goals this may be worth looking into as to how legit it is. Either they're really good at setting up pretty plays, their officials are very good at picking up (or giving) the 2nd assist, or maybe some of those points were just given out to players that may have (or have not) been on the ice but their friend (or someone else) tacked their # on the end of the scoring sequence...
Its an impossible task to judge solely by stats. There are so many variables. Easy or difficult competition, number of quality players on a team, defense or forward, team style of play, etc. Essentially it comes down to beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Thankfully in MSHSL there are lots of great players to argue about!

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:08 pm
by FrankThom
Kennedy obviously struggled this year and probably shouldn't have gone back to a full Lake conference schedule.

I don't see how Kennedy's problems somehow translate into top players from the Lake having fraudulent stats. If you take the top 8 lake teams, you will see very even scoring.

Keep in mind the Lake won last years state championship, had 2 teams in the state tournament and I believe put more kids on Division 1 rosters than any other conference. I think it is safe to say there are some kids that can play down here just as there are some kids that can play up there.

It is also hard to sit players when the program has bad numbers. Several lake teams have very small JVs. Rosemount does not even field a JV.
From top to bottom their will be no 7-0 games or 12-0 games.
You mean like this year's North Metro/Coon Rapids 7-0 score?

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:09 am
by ice29
[/quote] Its an impossible task to judge solely by stats. There are so many variables. Easy or difficult competition, number of quality players on a team, defense or forward, team style of play, etc. Essentially it comes down to beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Thankfully in MSHSL there are lots of great players to argue about![/quote]

This is the best answer I have ever read when it comes to the continuing threads and opinions about the level of play, ability, and success a hockey player has when it's related solely on Stats. The variables are unlimited during the course of a single game, then take that game and include another 23 or more games and you have the beauty of MSHSL. Let's let stats and records be apart of individual High School Teams and their past historical records, to be used for future athletes to strive and work for - with the hope of success.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:42 am
by hockeya1a
ice29 wrote:
Its an impossible task to judge solely by stats. There are so many variables. Easy or difficult competition, number of quality players on a team, defense or forward, team style of play, etc. Essentially it comes down to beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Thankfully in MSHSL there are lots of great players to argue about![/quote]

This is the best answer I have ever read when it comes to the continuing threads and opinions about the level of play, ability, and success a hockey player has when it's related solely on Stats. The variables are unlimited during the course of a single game, then take that game and include another 23 or more games and you have the beauty of MSHSL. Let's let stats and records be apart of individual High School Teams and their past historical records, to be used for future athletes to strive and work for - with the hope of success.[/quote]

This is true and stats are as only as good as the information that is entered, Star tribs stats or minnesotascores are all messed up and they from what I hear will not change the incorrect data.