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O no this can't happen again can it? This section absolutly sucks once again from what I see. Could we see another joke at state like lakeville south was last year? Or is there a team sitting out there that could play with the states best at the X.

joycer10 wrote:O no this can't happen again can it? This section absolutly sucks once again from what I see. Could we see another joke at state like lakeville south was last year? Or is there a team sitting out there that could play with the states best at the X.

Couldnt agree more it is truly pathetic that a team with a losing record will most likely end up going to the State tournament from section 1AA. My easy solution to the problem: Time to move up to the Big leagues St. Thomas and don't worry you will still be able to go to the tournament every year because we will put you in a section where you are the only good team.

I agree that section 1AA is the worst section for AA. However, it is not the worst section in the state. 3A I believe it is, is right down miserable. A team from 1AA has a better chance of pulling off an upset than whoever comes out of 3A. Yeah, chances of an upset is very slim, but it is possible. Only way I see that happening is if one of the Lakeville schools are in the tournament. Mayo doesn't have the depth to keep up with the cities teams.

Gosh we only had to make it half way through the season and the 1aa section bashing has begun. As for last year South gave Hill as good a game as anyone else. Yes this section is weak but lets refrain from ripping the teams/players who have absolutely nothing to do with where they are placed. Your complaint should lie with the mshsl and them only. The system is far from perfect but what should the section winner do decline the invitation and send some other team in their place?

enough with this already, south was a good team last year and had every right to be in that tourny. they played hill just as close as anyone did and even though the records of the lakeville teams dont always reflect that of a great team they always show up to play in state and are never a cake walk

I agree it is not the strongest section in the state. However, it is not at the bottom THIS year. Mayo just beat Lakeville North last night 4 -2 and Lakville North lost to # 1 Bloomington Jefferson by one goal last week. Moreover, Lakeville South lost to #4 Edan Prairie by one goal.

Hahaha, Visa Visa Visa...

Stop doing the "Mayo beat North who only lost to Jefferson by 1 so maybe Mayo could be Jefferson". If you use that as a measure then...

North Lost to Burnsville 7-1 and Jefferson beat Burnsville 7-1 so Jefferson, according to your way of thinking, could beat North 14-2?

Or how about this shockingly fun statistic.

When North played Chaska, Rosemount, and South they outscored them 13-7. Impressive? Well, compare it to when Jefferson played those three teams and they outscored them 24-3. Damn, you're right. North is solid. Eden Prairie outscored those three teams 17-4 which is still leaps and bounds better than 13-7.

Stop kidding yourself.

If you really want to have fun with the transitive property:

Greenway beat I-Falls by 1.
I-Falls beat Hermantown by 1.
Hermantown beat Duluth Marshall by 1.
Duluth Marshall beat STA by 1.
STA beat Hill-Murray 3.
Hill-Murray beat Edina 2.

Therefore, were Greenway to play Edina, they'd beat them by 9 goals.

Anyways, it'd be fun to see some real discussion about the prospects of the various teams in regards to their run at the State Tournament, because as much as we may like to complain about 1AA, they will send someone to it.

to get my bashing out of the way early it is a good thing that the mhshl reforms the sections every 2 years because this section is absolutely pathetic. what should be done this year is go back to the old range way of doing things and kicked section 1 out of the tournament completely and have a playoff between the 2nd place teams of sections 2 and 6.

however do to political correctness or whatever you want to call it they need to include everyone so...

#1 lakeville north
#2 lakeville south
#3 rochester mayo
#4 owatanna
it will probably come down to another lakeville showdown and the winner will end up in 8th place in the tournament

oneIdmonsta wrote:to get my bashing out of the way early it is a good thing that the mhshl reforms the sections every 2 years because this section is absolutely pathetic. what should be done this year is go back to the old range way of doing things and kicked section 1 out of the tournament completely and have a playoff between the 2nd place teams of sections 2 and 6.

however do to political correctness or whatever you want to call it they need to include everyone so...

#1 lakeville north
#2 lakeville south
#3 rochester mayo
#4 owatanna
it will probably come down to another lakeville showdown and the winner will end up in 8th place in the tournament

I doubt Lakeville North will be seeded higher than Mayo because Mayo just beat them this weekend 4 - 2.

With Mayo beating South tonight things cleared up seedings wise with the notable exceptions of Owatonna and Century quite a bit, so with the exceptions of those two teams and an explanation to follow I'll give you my seeds as of today.

1) Mayo 12-7, aside from Owatonna they've beaten veryone else in the section they've played, no one else can say that.

2&3) Lakeville North and South, if North sweeps South they're #2 otherwise I'd put South #2. The Lake is substantialy better than the Big Nine and Missota.

4) Farmington 7-11-1, beat Winona, JM, DC, and tied Owatonna. The Missota is better than the Big Nine so they get the nod over Winona.

5) Winona 9-10-1,They beat Farmington, JM, and LeSeuer

6) JM 7-14, beat Century and Dodge County

7) Dodge County 7-11, no section wins but their overall body of work is better than LeSeuer's.

8 ) LeSeuer 6-12, see DC

Owatonna 10-7 tied Farmington but beat Mayo, lost to Century, Faribault, and West. Should they beat Mayo again how do you seed Mayo in front of them? No team in 1AA has a notable win outside of Century, Owatonna has similar close losses to Mayo; Mahtomedi for Owatonna, Red Wing, Hibbing, and Virginia for Mayo. Should Mayo beat Owatonna then Owatonna could end up anywhere from 2 through 6 in the 10 team section. They'll be in front of Winona but could end up anywhere from #1 to #6. They also have the potential of pulling Mayo, even with their wins over the Lakeville schools, down with them, though that's doubtfull.

Century 9-10, beat #6 Duluth East but also lost to JM, to date they're 1-5 in the section but still have to play Winona, JM, and Owatonna in meaningful games. (They have Mayo as well but I don't think that will affect Century much in terms of seedings.) They also don't play Farmington which will some effect on them. I don't think they can be in front of Mayo or either Lakeville school but beyond that they could end up anywhere from #4 to #9. A loss to JM would really hurt as would a loss to Winona, neither games are given wins this season.

An Owatonna win over Mayo coupled with Century beating both Owatonna and Mayo throws everything upside down. Head to head would have to be thrown out when seeding the top 4-6 teams and you could make a plausable argument for any of 5 teams geting the top seed and any of the 5 teams being seeded 5th by another coach.

pioneerhockey12 wrote:south was a good team last year and had every right to be in that tourny

I think you were just happy your pioneers got a first round bye in the tourny. I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this statement; how in the world was South a good and deserving team last year? They were 1 game above .500 and nowhere even remotely close to the top 20 at any point in the season.

oneIdmonsta wrote:to get my bashing out of the way early it is a good thing that the mhshl reforms the sections every 2 years because this section is absolutely pathetic. what should be done this year is go back to the old range way of doing things and kicked section 1 out of the tournament completely and have a playoff between the 2nd place teams of sections 2 and 6.

however do to political correctness or whatever you want to call it they need to include everyone so...

#1 lakeville north
#2 lakeville south
#3 rochester mayo
#4 owatanna
it will probably come down to another lakeville showdown and the winner will end up in 8th place in the tournament

Like in life, things go in cycles young man...

You are probably much too young to remember the days when Region 1, now Section 1, was one of the toughest regions in the state, and yes, there was a much different makeup in 1975-1990, but here are your teams:
Bloomington Jefferson (Region 1 until 1981)*
Bloomington Kennedy*
Bloomington Lincoln*
Burnsville - Champs 85 & 86 - 2nd 83, 87
Apple Valley
Rosemount
Rochester John Marshall - Champs 1977, 2nd - 79 & 89
Rochester Mayo
Owatonna, Northfield, Faribault, Farmington...

MSHSL has continued to move and change the sections over the years, and there will no doubt be changes to come in the future, but one has to remember where we have come from, respect it for what it is, and try to make it better going forward...

With Lakeville's growth and youth programs on the rise, Rochester's growth as a city and good youth program, the addition of Century to the mix, and yes, MSHSL tinkering w/ the sections will come again, Section 1 will again have strong years ahead...

Do not be so quick to rush to judgement... don't be so angry...

Like in life, things go in cycles young man...

espnmobile8 wrote:Stop doing the "Mayo beat North who only lost to Jefferson by 1 so maybe Mayo could be Jefferson". If you use that as a measure then...

North Lost to Burnsville 7-1 and Jefferson beat Burnsville 7-1 so Jefferson, according to your way of thinking, could beat North 14-2?

Or how about this shockingly fun statistic.

When North played Chaska, Rosemount, and South they outscored them 13-7. Impressive? Well, compare it to when Jefferson played those three teams and they outscored them 24-3. Damn, you're right. North is solid. Eden Prairie outscored those three teams 17-4 which is still leaps and bounds better than 13-7.

Stop kidding yourself.

Haha this is a very good point. But who knows maybe a team from Lakeville will be hoisting the trophy this year or maybe not..

With Lakeville's growth and youth programs on the rise, Rochester's growth as a city and good youth program, the addition of Century to the mix, and yes, MSHSL tinkering w/ the sections will come again, Section 1 will again have strong years ahead...

Do not be so quick to rush to judgement... don't be so angry...

Like in life, things go in cycles young man... [/quote]


Good point Dman-
Take a look at the bantam standings. If the kids in Rochester and Lakeville end up at their given high school programs. Section 1 will be very well represented in the next few years.

sideways wrote:With Lakeville's growth and youth programs on the rise, Rochester's growth as a city and good youth program, the addition of Century to the mix, and yes, MSHSL tinkering w/ the sections will come again, Section 1 will again have strong years ahead...

Do not be so quick to rush to judgement... don't be so angry...

Like in life, things go in cycles young man...

Good point Dman-
Take a look at the bantam standings. If the kids in Rochester and Lakeville end up at their given high school programs. Section 1 will be very well represented in the next few years.[/quote]


Either that or St. Thomas and Lourdes will play for the Class A championship

hockeydad wrote:

sideways wrote:With Lakeville's growth and youth programs on the rise, Rochester's growth as a city and good youth program, the addition of Century to the mix, and yes, MSHSL tinkering w/ the sections will come again, Section 1 will again have strong years ahead...

Do not be so quick to rush to judgement... don't be so angry...

Like in life, things go in cycles young man...

Good point Dman-
Take a look at the bantam standings. If the kids in Rochester and Lakeville end up at their given high school programs. Section 1 will be very well represented in the next few years.

Either that or St. Thomas and Lourdes will play for the Class A championship[/quote]

I know for the Rochester kids they will not end up at the same high school. Until Rochester gets the youth program right they will continue to struggle at the HS level. There are enough kids in their youth program to feed all three public high schools and Lourdes will pick up a few along the way. However, the people that run the RHYA feel that it is more important to win a pee wee or bantam state title than developing a solid program that will support the high schools. Personally, I could care a less about winning at the pee wee or bantam level and give more weight to getting to the state high school torney....I am sure there are those that will disagree with me and I am ok with that. I have had two kids come up through the RYHA system so I know it well.

Visa wrote:

hockeydad wrote:

sideways wrote:With Lakeville's growth and youth programs on the rise, Rochester's growth as a city and good youth program, the addition of Century to the mix, and yes, MSHSL tinkering w/ the sections will come again, Section 1 will again have strong years ahead...

Do not be so quick to rush to judgement... don't be so angry...

Like in life, things go in cycles young man...

Good point Dman-
Take a look at the bantam standings. If the kids in Rochester and Lakeville end up at their given high school programs. Section 1 will be very well represented in the next few years.

Either that or St. Thomas and Lourdes will play for the Class A championship

I know for the Rochester kids they will not end up at the same high school. Until Rochester gets the youth program right they will continue to struggle at the HS level. There are enough kids in their youth program to feed all three public high schools and Lourdes will pick up a few along the way. However, the people that run the RHYA feel that it is more important to win a pee wee or bantam state title than developing a solid program that will support the high schools. Personally, I could care a less about winning at the pee wee or bantam level and give more weight to getting to the state high school torney....I am sure there are those that will disagree with me and I am ok with that. I have had two kids come up through the RYHA system so I know it well.[/quote]

Visa, I also think the same. The youth program should consist of 3 teams at bantam/peewee A and B and have those kids play on whichever high school they are going to. The kids going to Lourdes could play for what public school they would be going to. If this would happen I understand that the youth program won't be as strong as it would be with one domanint A and B team, but it would benefit the kids when they do move on to the high school level. Another thing I strongly agree with is you could make it to the peewee or bantam state tournament, but you're never going to have the experience to play at a sold out xcel energy center with thousands of people watching you. Although Mayo has a chance of making it to the X, I don't see a public school from Rochester going back to the tournament for awhile unless changes are made, beginning with the youth program. (my opinion)

I lived in Rochester in the mid-80s, and did some substitute teaching at the high schools. The basketball and hockey programs were outstanding at the JM and Mayo, and I know in the case of basketball it was because of the outstanding feeder programs they had...every gym in the city was busy on a Saturday morning. Now, the hoops program is horrible and the hockey program isn't much better. It can't be because of Century watering it down, because the enrollment has gone up and the demographics of Rochester are pretty strong. Sad to see.