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Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:41 am**

Does anyone know if there has there been a formal decision yet on the status of the Fire teams eligibility for next season with WAHA?

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:28 pm**

nhl'er wrote:Does anyone know if there has there been a formal decision yet on the status of the Fire teams eligibility for next season with WAHA?

Hopefully they will be defunct

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:31 pm**

"hopefully they will be defunct"

This is such a moronic statement that's filled with ridiculous adult hatred of a program they disagree with. Wake up MORON, this program is simply another place for kids to PLAY THE GAME OF HOCKEY. Providing places for kids to play hockey is our mission as adults. Get them to grow to love the game like we do. I personally don't give a FLIP about the A's or B's or whatever...the only thing that matters is that there is a team and a place to play...wake up and see ABOVE the clouds for once.

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:48 pm**

Tenoverpar wrote:"hopefully they will be defunct"

This is such a moronic statement that's filled with ridiculous adult hatred of a program they disagree with. Wake up MORON, this program is simply another place for kids to PLAY THE GAME OF HOCKEY. Providing places for kids to play hockey is our mission as adults. Get them to grow to love the game like we do. I personally don't give a FLIP about the A's or B's or whatever...the only thing that matters is that there is a team and a place to play...wake up and see ABOVE the clouds for once.

Posted: **Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:14 pm**

Hopefully they will be defunct[/quote] Why do you hope they will be defunct? I have seen the '94 and '97 Fire play and thought they looked great. I have noticed that many people on this forum do not like success (Machine, Deuce, Blades, Fire, Minnesota Made) I'm not sure I understand why.

Posted: **Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:29 am**

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:42 am**

in my opinion the fire have grown into a fine hockey program. they have earned the right to play and be excepted anywhere. After being around some of the coaches and parents nothing but a class act. I also have to say they are doing a great job developing some fine young players.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:09 pm**

watchdog wrote:in my opinion the fire have grown into a fine hockey program. they have earned the right to play and be ACCEPTED anywhere. After being around some of the coaches and parents nothing but a class act. I also have to say they are doing a great job developing some fine young players.

If they follow the rules, no one should have a problem with this team.
While they have NOT always been on the right side of the rules (and from my perspective, sometimes purposely); it appears after this last year MOST of the teams have done so. Those that have not, appear to be on their way out and the leadership (per what I have heard) is doing everything to make sure last years episode is not repeated.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:37 pm**

Why can't everyone just let the Fire be..

Just let kids play hockey....Seriously. -Alot of the TOP kids end up leaving and transferring into private high schools or leave early for some reason...The fire has such a small, small number of kids compared to MN assoication Hockey thats it's not even funny.

(1) tiny hockey club compared to several hundred around the state can produce this much "strain" with people - Imagine if people spent the same amount of time working hard at thier own associations...WOW

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:16 pm**

I agree with SuperStar, the Fire only has five teams from squirt to bantam. How many players are they really taking from association rosters, not many. Besides , its about the players and having fun, at least thats what eveyone keeps saying until the Fire is brought up. The Fire is a good hockey club and is very well respected at the national level.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:50 pm**

wiscobad wrote:I hope that the Fire organization continues. Either that, or a newly developed independent team pops up as an alternative.

The new independent league is the Choice league. Bernie has started with mites and now is working on a squirt league that runs from Oct - March.

I like the league set up and Minnesota hockey should look into this format.

Association Hockey will come to end. If they let Fire and Bernie have a different set of rules on how a team is picked. I don't care either way things need to change.

Bernie for President

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:28 pm**

CoachJ wrote:
wiscobad wrote:I hope that the Fire organization continues. Either that, or a newly developed independent team pops up as an alternative.

The new independent league is the Choice league. Bernie has started with mites and now is working on a squirt league that runs from Oct - March.

I like the league set up and Minnesota hockey should look into this format.

Association Hockey will come to end. If they let Fire and Bernie have a different set of rules on how a team is picked. I don't care either way things need to change.

Bernie for President

Maybe this belongs in the Choice League thread, but I'm curious as to what you think works better with Bernie than with Association Hockey? And do you think his formula will continue to be effective as the number of players grow at MM? (serious question, not being snarky)

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:08 pm**

Lily Braden wrote:
CoachJ wrote:
wiscobad wrote:I hope that the Fire organization continues. Either that, or a newly developed independent team pops up as an alternative.

The new independent league is the Choice league. Bernie has started with mites and now is working on a squirt league that runs from Oct - March.

I like the league set up and Minnesota hockey should look into this format.

Association Hockey will come to end. If they let Fire and Bernie have a different set of rules on how a team is picked. I don't care either way things need to change.

Bernie for President
Maybe this belongs in the Choice League thread, but I'm curious as to what you think works better with Bernie than with Association Hockey? And do you think his formula will continue to be effective as the number of players grow at MM? (serious question, not being snarky)

Yes I do think it will be effective, I wouldn't be surprised if Bernies attorneys will be working on sueing MN Hockey if they try to stop him.

It's America and everyone has to sue someone

I think Bernie has proven to know what he is doing and Parents /Kids that are serious about hockey will follow his lead. Kids leave High school early , now they leave at mites to learn the game at a faster pace. Tryouts are pooled and then drafted in respect to trying to balance the teams out. Associations that are not strong will continue to get beat 10-1 and that isn't going to improve anyone. Bernies teams will compete against similar talent every game.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:02 pm**

CoachJ wrote:
Lily Braden wrote:
CoachJ wrote:

The new independent league is the Choice league. Bernie has started with mites and now is working on a squirt league that runs from Oct - March.

I like the league set up and Minnesota hockey should look into this format.

Association Hockey will come to end. If they let Fire and Bernie have a different set of rules on how a team is picked. I don't care either way things need to change.

Bernie for President
Maybe this belongs in the Choice League thread, but I'm curious as to what you think works better with Bernie than with Association Hockey? And do you think his formula will continue to be effective as the number of players grow at MM? (serious question, not being snarky)

Yes I do think it will be effective, I wouldn't be surprised if Bernies attorneys will be working on sueing MN Hockey if they try to stop him.

It's America and everyone has to sue someone

I think Bernie has proven to know what he is doing and Parents /Kids that are serious about hockey will follow his lead. Kids leave High school early , now they leave at mites to learn the game at a faster pace. Tryouts are pooled and then drafted in respect to trying to balance the teams out. Associations that are not strong will continue to get beat 10-1 and that isn't going to improve anyone. Bernies teams will compete against similar talent every game.

Why do you think MN Hockey will try to stop Bernie?
He is offering a product outside the realm of USA Hockey. How and why would MN Hockey stop him?
Sueing???? If there is a lawsuit it would involve USA Hockey. It would be long and expensive. Bernie, MM, the investors would not gain. But again, why would he be stopped. He has his self-contained group, apparently makes money at it, and gives some people what they want, or as it is for most of us, what we perceive we want. Time will be the judge if it was the best thing, but in the short term, those that have gone that way are free to do so.

Everyone has to sue someone???????

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:49 am**

elliott70 wrote:
CoachJ wrote:
Lily Braden wrote: Maybe this belongs in the Choice League thread, but I'm curious as to what you think works better with Bernie than with Association Hockey? And do you think his formula will continue to be effective as the number of players grow at MM? (serious question, not being snarky)

Yes I do think it will be effective, I wouldn't be surprised if Bernies attorneys will be working on sueing MN Hockey if they try to stop him.

It's America and everyone has to sue someone

I think Bernie has proven to know what he is doing and Parents /Kids that are serious about hockey will follow his lead. Kids leave High school early , now they leave at mites to learn the game at a faster pace. Tryouts are pooled and then drafted in respect to trying to balance the teams out. Associations that are not strong will continue to get beat 10-1 and that isn't going to improve anyone. Bernies teams will compete against similar talent every game.
Why do you think MN Hockey will try to stop Bernie?
He is offering a product outside the realm of USA Hockey. How and why would MN Hockey stop him?
Sueing???? If there is a lawsuit it would involve USA Hockey. It would be long and expensive. Bernie, MM, the investors would not gain. But again, why would he be stopped. He has his self-contained group, apparently makes money at it, and gives some people what they want, or as it is for most of us, what we perceive we want. Time will be the judge if it was the best thing, but in the short term, those that have gone that way are free to do so.

Everyone has to sue someone???????

Will he need waviers or are the Kids free to play elsewhere?

Then whats the difference if a kid wants to play at another association? Why sould they be stopped? Why do they need a wavier. Kids should be free to do what they want.

Sounds like the rule isn't very strong.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:06 am**

I don't see why anyone would think to sue an entrepreneur or new business initiative because it is going to compete with the incumbant??? This is the way it works in this country...

But, I can understand why (me included) want to protect what we have with association hockey...it is truly the best thing going in this country for youth hockey - not because it is the best system for developing NHL talent but because it is fabric of our culture...kids playing for their communities is great and is the foundation for what is agruably the best high school sport in the country - Minnesota High School Hockey.

So, I can completely understand how people want to attack the new threat but the emotion and effort should not be put forth not to kill the competition but to make what we currently have even better.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:20 am**

moved

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:58 am**

CoachJ wrote:
Will he need waviers or are the Kids free to play elsewhere?
No, waivers are not needed. MM is not an affilaited association with MN Hockey and USA Hockey. A player can register with their local association and skate with MM.

Then whats the difference if a kid wants to play at another association?
Why sould they be stopped? Why do they need a wavier. Kids should be free to do what they want.
MM is NOT association hockey. Playing where you want would lead to chaos. Rules are made to apply order to things.
Example, I own my home and some surrounding property. I should be 'free' to use it as I want. But my neighbors, and the government, will not allow me to dump my used oil in the back lot.
Kids are free to chose what they want (with parents' guidance we hope).
But once the choice is made they have responsibility within that choice.
Play MM, play by the rules they have. Play USA Hockey, play by their rules. Skate outdoors at the local rinks, play by the rules set down by the local park & rec of City X.

Its freedom to participate, not freedom to do whatever you want. I do not believe that freedom has ever existed, anywhere.

Sounds like the rule isn't very strong.
Minnesota Made does not follow MH & USA Hockey rules. They are a private organization, operating in their own self-contained world.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:01 am**

gilmour wrote:I don't see why anyone would think to sue an entrepreneur or new business initiative because it is going to compete with the incumbant??? This is the way it works in this country...

But, I can understand why (me included) want to protect what we have with association hockey...it is truly the best thing going in this country for youth hockey - not because it is the best system for developing NHL talent but because it is fabric of our culture...kids playing for their communities is great and is the foundation for what is agruably the best high school sport in the country - Minnesota High School Hockey.

So, I can completely understand how people want to attack the new threat but the emotion and effort should not be put forth not to kill the competition but to make what we currently have even better.

I agree.
In addition, the rules and organization make it easier (for the most part) to put together teams, schedule games, be involved in post season play, and assure the competition is operating the same as you. Baseball is organized, but there are so many umbrellas to play under that you have different rules every tournament.

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:50 am**

As I shoveled snow one afternoon in late April in Mn.! I recieved a call from one of my close fire parent friends! He was in the heart of New York City touring (Time Square)! Taking a break from the 95 National Championships! As they were on there way to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty! I reflected back on some of the travels of our winter team! Rochester, Winona and spending three days freezing in Northern Mn. Yes three days of never leaving my hotel room because there was nothing to see or do! As the Fire boys toured Chicago, Boston, New Jersey, Denver, Port Huron, Milwakee, Madison and other ports! I was left thinking what a great learning expierence! These advanced players deserve to be rewarded! This 95 team, on and off the ice, from the coaching staff, players and parents is as professional and humble as one could be! As they represented Mn., Wi, off the ice with style, on the ice all they did was win!

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:10 pm**

wannagototherink wrote:
nhl'er wrote:Does anyone know if there has there been a formal decision yet on the status of the Fire teams eligibility for next season with WAHA?

Hopefully they will be defunct

Really?? Your hoping that someone's hockey organization goes defunct??I am assuming by this shallow comment you are kid. If this post comes from a hockey parent......wow, what a rotten thing to hope for and shame on you.

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:23 pm**

Well said "Great Save" - Just because one team in the FIRE organization made a mistake(s) and failed to play by the rules, it should not mean that the entire organization is at fault.

I personally know the head coaches of the '93, '94 and '95 teams. GREAT COACHES and even better people.

I know many of the skaters on the '93, '94 & '95 teams. Many wonderful hockey players and great young men. And the parents are exceptional.

I understand that maybe things could have gone a little better for the '93 coaches and management (and I have been critical of them) but hey - everyone makes a mistake once in a while, we learn from it and move on, don't we?

I for one would support the future of the FIRE.

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:33 pm**

If everyone put as much effort into helping fix the issues they have with MH rather than trying to beat down the Fire,I wonder how quickly some of these issues could be resolved..

I think that all those that absoultly bash MH should step up and attend the annual meeting that's coming up or get invloved with their association/district etc........What do they say put up or shut up?

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:34 pm**

My_Kid_Loves_Hockey wrote:If everyone put as much effort into helping fix the issues they have with MH rather than trying to beat down the Fire,I wonder how quickly some of these issues could be resolved..

I think that all those that absoultly bash MH should step up and attend the annual meeting that's coming up or get invloved with their association/district etc........What do they say put up or shut up?

Great Save here! I am sure MAHA is busy at these meetings discussing wether to introduce a red puck that will bounce higher than the blue puck!

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:12 pm**

Great Save wrote:
My_Kid_Loves_Hockey wrote:If everyone put as much effort into helping fix the issues they have with MH rather than trying to beat down the Fire,I wonder how quickly some of these issues could be resolved..

I think that all those that absoultly bash MH should step up and attend the annual meeting that's coming up or get invloved with their association/district etc........What do they say put up or shut up?
Great Save here! I am sure MAHA is busy at these meetings discussing wHether to introduce a red puck that will bounce higher than the blue puck!

The blue puck came from USA Hockey, not from Minnesota Hockey.

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