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I think we are all being played by pekyman. He is either (1) just trolling or (2) really Karl who is trying to get the Hermantown topic to reach 50 pages.

greenwayraider wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:14 pm I think we are all being played by pekyman. He is either (1) just trolling or (2) really Karl who is trying to get the Hermantown topic to reach 50 pages.

KarlEast. We are on to you

This was the first post in this thread, and not by me, over a year ago.

Before I get to the arguments, I’ll first give a few points of agreement, as weird as that may seem:

1. Nearly everyone, pro and con, agree that Hermantown has an excellent hockey program.
2. Almost everyone, pro and con, agrees that Hermantown should be in AA.
3. None of the A/AA controversy is the fault of the players, and they should be congratulated on their success, no matter what level it is at.

So, with this history in mind, here are some of the current points of contention, as I see them:

1. The con side feels open enrollment and transfers have a lot to do with the Hawks’ dominance in A and that without that extra talent, they would be a solid A team, but not nearly the force they have been. The pros bristle at this notion and feel that it diminishes their accomplishments. Many of them feel that open enrollment/transfers have had little effect and that it is the Hermantown hockey machine that takes 600 kids and makes them one of the best in the state, A or AA.

2. The cons claim Hermantown recruits surrounding players at youth levels, and have publicly posted minutes from Herm youth meetings to prove it is an issue within the association. The cons have either called this fake news, or have claimed that this is private information that should not be posted publicly.

3. The pros feel that it’s not so much that Hermantown is getting better, it’s that the other teams in 7A are getting worse and that they have “lame a$$” programs, as one con put it. The cons then point out that not only has Hermantown now beaten the eventual AA champ two years in a row, but they still continue to compete well with juggernauts like Tonka and EP, even though the Hawks are in a “down” year this year. Further, the cons point out that 7A has been much, much stronger the last 4 years, with Denfeld, Marshall, Hibbing, Greenway, and Virginia all having top ten teams in A, with Greenway, Hibbing, and Marshall having teams that were likely top 5, at least.

4. The pros feel that getting some top talent from Proctor or Duluth school districts is irrelevant, as they still only have an enrollment of 600. The cons counter this by stating that if you get these players from outside your school district, you have effectively increased your enrollment significantly, and most other outstate A teams do not have access to a metro population of 150,000 right on their doorstep, so it is a huge advantage for the Hawks.

5. The cons feel that since Plante railed publicly against big city schools dominating in A, then his (former) team should be held to the same scrutiny. The pros feel that Hermantown is small town hockey, and is nothing like those metro schools that used to beat them in title games. The cons state that Hermantown is now very much like those metro teams, as they draw talent from a huge pool yet can hide behind a small enrollment.

I guess that’s a start. Hopefully any errors or omissions I made will be corrected soon.

1st post in this thread.....

knife:

Thanks for the refresher on the Hawk topic.

Of the five listed, #5 stands out. No matter if you're pro or con, the facts are players from outside Hermantown have entered the school and made the team. It's no different than Bruce's rant about STA's roster during their annual championship game battles at the X.

The Htown pros have no argument on this particular point.

The point that hit home for me, from a few days ago, was that Htown hosts summer skates etc for potential recruits. That clearly crosses a line, if true. It is one thing if people just want to come to your program. Quite another if you actively recruit.

Yoopskater wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:43 pm The point that hit home for me, from a few days ago, was that Htown hosts summer skates etc for potential recruits. That clearly crosses a line, if true. It is one thing if people just want to come to your program. Quite another if you actively recruit.

I know a top player from Hibbing a few years ago got a letter from Hermantown hockey saying he'd be welcome to come try out for their team.

O-townClown wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:47 pm

rainier2 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:35 pmIt won't happen because East has nothing to gain by playing an A team, especially an A team that is good enough to beat them. A win doesn't help their QRF, and a loss hurts them. Why would any AA team subject to QRF play an A team that is as good as any AA team? It's not cowardice, it's common sense.

Which program is banner-chasing?

DE will play them 1 or 2 times a year as soon as they move up to where they should be. Quit being a clown....

Yoopskater wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:43 pm The point that hit home for me, from a few days ago, was that Htown hosts summer skates etc for potential recruits. That clearly crosses a line, if true. It is one thing if people just want to come to your program. Quite another if you actively recruit.

This is very true. Hermantown is widely known for the summer skates for everybody. Yes. That’s got to be when they get the kids.

MrBoDangles wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:37 pmDE will play them 1 or 2 times a year as soon as they move up to where they should be. Quit being a clown....

And if they don't move up to AA (where the should be) Duluth East won't play them. So yes, we're all in agreement that Duluth East at present time is ducking them. One even calls it cowardly.

Excuses:

• * Duluth East is banner chasing for 7AA crowns and can't suffer the risk of a lower section seeding
  * Principles - Mike Randolph has such conviction he'll go a decade without playing what should be an epic rival to make his point
  * Holier than thou - the way Duluth East attracts its roster is noble, while Hermantown's approach is dishonorable
  * blah, blah, blah

The adults should quit depriving the kids of a great rivalry. It isn't a rivalry when you don't play. Louisville wouldn't play Kentucky in college basketball so the legislature got involved. Wichita St.-Kansas. USF-UCF in football, or Iowa St.-Iowa. Many examples. Nobody looks good when these games don't happen.

PageStat confirms these would be awesome games almost every season:
2018-19: DE 8 vs. H'town 13
2018: 4 vs. 19
2017: 16 vs. 7
2016: 15 vs. 1
2015: 20 vs. 4
2014: 12 vs. 21
2013: 5 vs. 9
2012: 2 vs. 14
2011: 3 vs. 19
2010: 13 vs. 15
2009: 8 vs. 16
2008: 10 vs. 47
2007: 8 vs. 9
2006: 9 vs. 18

I'm a fan of the sport and love competition. It is too bad these games were never played. I'd love to hear the conversation on an airplane.

Oh, wow! You're from Duluth? It is so awesome that the Bulldogs won the last two NCAA championships. I've heard they have a lot of homegrowns. The hockey in that area must be incredible!

Pretty much. We're fortunate.

I've always heard High School hockey is the big thing in Minnesota.

Yup. 19,000 in the building for the state tournament games. Statewide TV. If you do something big they'll remember you forever. It's quite a spectacle!

How is the HS hockey around Duluth?

It's great! We have great programs at Duluth East, Hermantown, and Cloquet and Grand Rapids isn't too far away. Nothing better! Grand Rapids just won a state title beating all the large suburban schools. Duluth East - that's my team - is usually in the mix and Hermantown wins almost every year at Class A.

Wow! From what people tell me I need to get to that state tournament before I die. How good is Class A? What happens when Hermantown plays Duluth East?

They don't.

…...aaaaaaaannnndddd CUT!

O-townClown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:23 pm

MrBoDangles wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:37 pmDE will play them 1 or 2 times a year as soon as they move up to where they should be. Quit being a clown....

And if they don't move up to AA (where the should be) Duluth East won't play them. So yes, we're all in agreement that Duluth East at present time is ducking them. One even calls it cowardly.

Excuses:

• * Duluth East is banner chasing for 7AA crowns and can't suffer the risk of a lower section seeding
  * Principles - Mike Randolph has such conviction he'll go a decade without playing what should be an epic rival to make his point
  * Holier than thou - the way Duluth East attracts its roster is noble, while Hermantown's approach is dishonorable
  * blah, blah, blah

The adults should quit depriving the kids of a great rivalry. It isn't a rivalry when you don't play. Louisville wouldn't play Kentucky in college basketball so the legislature got involved. Wichita St.-Kansas. USF-UCF in football, or Iowa St.-Iowa. Many examples. Nobody looks good when these games don't happen.

PageStat confirms these would be awesome games almost every season:
2018-19: DE 8 vs. H'town 13
2018: 4 vs. 19
2017: 16 vs. 7
2016: 15 vs. 1
2015: 20 vs. 4
2014: 12 vs. 21
2013: 5 vs. 9
2012: 2 vs. 14
2011: 3 vs. 19
2010: 13 vs. 15
2009: 8 vs. 16
2008: 10 vs. 47
2007: 8 vs. 9
2006: 9 vs. 18

I'm a fan of the sport and love competition. It is too bad these games were never played. I'd love to hear the conversation on an airplane.

Oh, wow! You're from Duluth? It is so awesome that the Bulldogs won the last two NCAA championships. I've heard they have a lot of homegrowns. The hockey in that area must be incredible!

Pretty much. We're fortunate.

I've always heard High School hockey is the big thing in Minnesota.

Yup. 19,000 in the building for the state tournament games. Statewide TV. If you do something big they'll remember you forever. It's quite a spectacle!

How is the HS hockey around Duluth?

It's great! We have great programs at Duluth East, Hermantown, and Cloquet and Grand Rapids isn't too far away. Nothing better! Grand Rapids just won a state title beating all the large suburban schools. Duluth East - that's my team - is usually in the mix and Hermantown wins almost every year at Class A.

Wow! From what people tell me I need to get to that state tournament before I die. How good is Class A? What happens when Hermantown plays Duluth East?

They don't.

…...aaaaaaaannnndddd CUT!

All in agreement????? Do you not think they would play in the regular season if they moved to AA? And do you know that they didn’t put Hermantown on the schedule for many years when they were weaker? How many A teams have been on DE’s schedules?

DEast plays a very (for the most part) difficult AA schedule every year (at least the last ten years).
But have played Denfeld and Superior every year for the last ten years(and at times Breck).

elliott70 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:18 pm DEast plays a very (for the most part) difficult AA schedule every year (at least the last ten years).
But have played Denfeld and Superior every year for the last ten years(and at times Breck).

Ok.. Teams keep traditions with other teams all the time... Maybe it was Hermantown that wanted out when they were weak and DE was too much for them..? You only get 25 games and maybe Breck was part of a swing and they found it fun to play one of Wisconsin’s best in Superior. Or maybe they just thought it was bs that they compete at the highest level in youth, but dropped back in hs. All I know is that we are all far from agreeing that we know that they were plain out afraid...

MrBoDangles wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:12 pm

elliott70 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:18 pm DEast plays a very (for the most part) difficult AA schedule every year (at least the last ten years).
But have played Denfeld and Superior every year for the last ten years(and at times Breck).

Ok.. Teams keep traditions with other teams all the time... Maybe it was Hermantown that wanted out when they were weak and DE was too much for them..? You only get 25 games and maybe Breck was part of a swing and they found it fun to play one of Wisconsin’s best in Superior. Or maybe they just thought it was bs that they compete at the highest level in youth, but dropped back in hs. All I know is that we are all far from agreeing that we know that they were plain out afraid...

Does anybody think that Hermantown would be put in a different AA section other than 7AA. And would they become Duluth East’s biggest rivalry taking Grand Rapids place. Would Cloquet ever be talked about as a serious contender coming out of 7AA with Hermantown there. I always think about when Jamie Langenbrunner showed up on the big screen at a Gopher football game wearing the Lumberjack hockey sweater. Heck. He’s not even a big fan of my purple anymore. We’re getting thinned out over here as far as diehard fans of the CEC purple.

Well, in AA PeeWee & AA Bantam, it’s 90% that DE & Hermantown are each other’s most heated rival (sorta like Blaine & Centennial are) so yes, if Hermantown ever grows a pair, that will be the result And Hermantown most certainly will/would be placed in 7AA

MrBoDangles wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:12 pm

elliott70 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:18 pm DEast plays a very (for the most part) difficult AA schedule every year (at least the last ten years).
But have played Denfeld and Superior every year for the last ten years(and at times Breck).

Ok.. Teams keep traditions with other teams all the time... Maybe it was Hermantown that wanted out when they were weak and DE was too much for them..? You only get 25 games and maybe Breck was part of a swing and they found it fun to play one of Wisconsin’s best in Superior. Or maybe they just thought it was bs that they compete at the highest level in youth, but dropped back in hs. All I know is that we are all far from agreeing that we know that they were plain out afraid...

I am not sure so somebody correct me if I am wrong but when DE and Hermantown quit playing each other wouldn't it still have been one class in youth? If so that can be eliminated, at least as the original reasoning.

O-townClown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:23 pm

MrBoDangles wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:37 pmDE will play them 1 or 2 times a year as soon as they move up to where they should be. Quit being a clown....

And if they don't move up to AA (where the should be) Duluth East won't play them. So yes, we're all in agreement that Duluth East at present time is ducking them. One even calls it cowardly.

Excuses:

• * Duluth East is banner chasing for 7AA crowns and can't suffer the risk of a lower section seeding
  * Principles - Mike Randolph has such conviction he'll go a decade without playing what should be an epic rival to make his point
  * Holier than thou - the way Duluth East attracts its roster is noble, while Hermantown's approach is dishonorable
  * blah, blah, blah

The adults should quit depriving the kids of a great rivalry. It isn't a rivalry when you don't play. Louisville wouldn't play Kentucky in college basketball so the legislature got involved. Wichita St.-Kansas. USF-UCF in football, or Iowa St.-Iowa. Many examples. Nobody looks good when these games don't happen.

PageStat confirms these would be awesome games almost every season:
2018-19: DE 8 vs. H'town 13
2018: 4 vs. 19
2017: 16 vs. 7
2016: 15 vs. 1
2015: 20 vs. 4
2014: 12 vs. 21
2013: 5 vs. 9
2012: 2 vs. 14
2011: 3 vs. 19
2010: 13 vs. 15
2009: 8 vs. 16
2008: 10 vs. 47
2007: 8 vs. 9
2006: 9 vs. 18

I'm a fan of the sport and love competition. It is too bad these games were never played. I'd love to hear the conversation on an airplane.

Oh, wow! You're from Duluth? It is so awesome that the Bulldogs won the last two NCAA championships. I've heard they have a lot of homegrowns. The hockey in that area must be incredible!

Pretty much. We're fortunate.

I've always heard High School hockey is the big thing in Minnesota.

Yup. 19,000 in the building for the state tournament games. Statewide TV. If you do something big they'll remember you forever. It's quite a spectacle!

How is the HS hockey around Duluth?

It's great! We have great programs at Duluth East, Hermantown, and Cloquet and Grand Rapids isn't too far away. Nothing better! Grand Rapids just won a state title beating all the large suburban schools. Duluth East - that's my team - is usually in the mix and Hermantown wins almost every year at Class A.

Wow! From what people tell me I need to get to that state tournament before I die. How good is Class A? What happens when Hermantown plays Duluth East?

They don't.

…...aaaaaaaannnndddd CUT!

There is a fatal flaw in your argument: If you find it so devastating that rivalry games aren’t being played, then you should be leading the charge for Hermantown to move to AA. Just think of all the real rivalry games that could happen in the 7AA playoffs: Hermantown vs. East, or Andover, or Cloquet, or Elk River, etc. would all become big time matchups, and would make any regular season meetings much more exciting. And that yearly game (two this year) that Hermantown and GR play? Nobody gets too worked up about those games now, but if a 7AA seed were on the line, and they knew they were likely to see each other in the playoffs, then that game would take on huge significance, just like most East-GR games do now.

And Hermantown has been, is, and will be good enough to win 7AA, so they could even have some great rivalries at the X. They could have some epic games vs Edina, EP, Wayzata, and yes, even STA. How great would it be for Hawk fans to exorcise the second place finish demons with a AA title game victory over STA?

Hermantown already enjoys some of the aforementioned rivalries, it’s just that they only happen at the youth levels, where they are in AA. To point the finger at East for robbing HS hockey fans of rivalries is colossally misguided.

With 7AA adding Hermantown, I doubt CEC would ever compete seriously for a section championship. That ok though cause that’s pretty much how it is now. I will still enjoy competing though. And the possibilities of beating any of these teams once in the season. My same goals would still apply. Split with East and get a home playoff game.

Well, Randolph doesn’t schedule Edina in the regular season either (anymore) which may have added to Otowns dander. The problem is entirely (with) Hermantown. But I don’t have a problem with most MN AA schools scheduling HT in the regular season, these schools don’t care about Section 7 & HT is a top team. But Randolph NEVER WILL until they start playing where they’ve belonged for a decade. And DE has been playing Denfeld & Superior since the 1960’s and Randolph is loyal to Superior. I also know for a fact that it was Anoka’s decision (with new coaches & a dramatic talent drop off these past few years) to not continue playing DE, it wasn’t Randolph dropping them, so DE essentially replaced Anoka with Champlin Park

hockey59 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:01 pmWell, Randolph doesn’t schedule Edina in the regular season either (anymore) which may have added to Otowns dander.

The phpBB platform has a bunch of 'smilies' but not one for LMAO. Yes, a frequent discussion topic among Hornet faithful is how The Program of the Decade has been held back without (*checks notes*) the Grey Dogs on their schedule.

But Randolph NEVER WILL until they start playing where they’ve belonged for a decade.

Yes, you and others have made it clear the only thing getting in the way of this game happening is Duluth East's unwillingness.

Pro tip: don't attach conditions to participation if you want to be taken seriously. This is like Mayweather-Pacquiao, without the $400 million back-end payday.

rainier2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:51 pmThere is a fatal flaw in your argument: If you find it so devastating that rivalry games aren’t being played, then you should be leading the charge for Hermantown to move to AA.

Hermantown should play AA. I don't need to lead any charge, there are scores fighting that battle.

The issue is why doesn't Duluth East play Hermantown. Would it be a good game? Most years, yes. I think everyone agrees.

You can make up all the sorry reasons you want and climb aboard a high horse to delude yourself into feeling good about it.

OR

Duluth East could just put them on the schedule and have one more good game each year without bussing to the Twin Cities. Who loses in this scenario? The game would probably be great, it would no doubt be memorable, and the sport would be better off for it.

Instead there's that unforgettable January tilt against the (*asks friend*) Wildcats at Eagan. Hooray.

O-townClown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:06 pm

rainier2 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:51 pmThere is a fatal flaw in your argument: If you find it so devastating that rivalry games aren’t being played, then you should be leading the charge for Hermantown to move to AA.

Hermantown should play AA. I don't need to lead any charge, there are scores fighting that battle.

The issue is why doesn't Duluth East play Hermantown. Would it be a good game? Most years, yes. I think everyone agrees.

You can make up all the sorry reasons you want and climb aboard a high horse to delude yourself into feeling good about it.

OR

Duluth East could just put them on the schedule and have one more good game each year without bussing to the Twin Cities. Who loses in this scenario? The game would probably be great, it would no doubt be memorable, and the sport would be better off for it.

Instead there's that unforgettable January tilt against the (*asks friend*) Wildcats at Eagan. Hooray.

You're hilarious. Arguing that East is the bad guy when Hermantown is tearing HS ethics and sportsmanship to shreds is like trying to fix your clogged sink while your house is burning to the ground.

If Hermantown was in 7AA the next 10 years, how many times they go to state ? I would say 5 at least, probably.

O-townClown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:01 pm

hockey59 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:01 pmWell, Randolph doesn’t schedule Edina in the regular season either (anymore) which may have added to Otowns dander.

The phpBB platform has a bunch of 'smilies' but not one for LMAO. Yes, a frequent discussion topic among Hornet faithful is how The Program of the Decade has been held back without (*checks notes*) the Grey Dogs on their schedule.

I don’t doubt Edina faithful are unconcerned about Randolph not wanting to play Edina during the regular season. And Program of the decade More like program of the past 60 years. Whenever you guys have a top goalie, ya win AA State & sometimes when ya don’t. Still doesn’t change the upset losses in 2018, 2008 & 2009 And I was actually happy when Edina won State in 2019

Hermantown doesn't and never will give 2 sh@@s if Duluth East ever schedules them. Lol. Greyhounds who????

stopthepuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:18 pm Hermantown doesn't and never will give 2 sh@@s if Duluth East ever schedules them. Lol. Greyhounds who????

You're 100% wrong on this. As you can see by pekyman's post, Hermantown faithful are dying, now that they know they can beat them, for a chance to take down East, so they can say they are better. This is what is so great about being a Hawk fan: you can play the best AA programs in youth and HS regular season and beat them, which allows you to claim you are better than they are, but yet you never have to actually prove it in the playoffs when it really matters, instead you can just roll through Class A and collect trophies. No risk, and all the rewards.

And I'm sure Hermantown fans are extra rabid at a shot at East during the regular season only, because they know Randolph doesn't give a crap about the regular season. The Hawks can beat the Hounds when Randolph is still tinkering and calibrating, and they never have to worry about facing them in the 7AA playoffs when Randolph has his team running on all cylinders. You get to woof at East for the win, but don't have to back it up when it matters. Brilliant!