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hill and cretin cannot seriously be considered old school hockey in mn..was a time when our pee wee team could whup up on either

govies wrote:hill and cretin cannot seriously be considered old school hockey in mn..was a time when our pee wee team could whup up on either

Depends on your perspective. If you are under the age of 30, then HM could definitely be considered "old time hockey".

govies wrote:wimps...in the day as they say all of our jv game were played outside mostly on the Phelan "a " rink...several theories have been put forth over the quality of Mn hockey youth not as good as it once was..attributed to games being all indoor now...kids just as not as tough..hardly see any rink rats anymore these days..after watching (a real treat) most or all of Hibbings 2008 games I have to agree Mn plyrs as a whole. are not what they used to be

Pure and complete BS. Up until 1979, there was only one Minnesotan taken in the 1st round of the NHL draft (Phil Housley). Between 1980 and 2005, there were 15....and between 2006 and 2010 there were 14. More Minnesotans than ever are playing college hockey (D1 and D3) and playing in the Junior A ranks.

The quality of players being developed and turned out in Minnesota is better than it ever has been and it's only getting better. To say that the quality of youth hockey is "not as good as it once was" shows nothing but ignorance.

muckandgrind wrote:

govies wrote:hill and cretin cannot seriously be considered old school hockey in mn..was a time when our pee wee team could whup up on either

Depends on your perspective. If you are under the age of 30, then HM could definitely be considered "old time hockey".

Try 50. HM and Johnson played for the first time 40 years ago on 12/23/1970. HM won 6-0. Govies must be getting up there.

muckandgrind wrote:

govies wrote:wimps...in the day as they say all of our jv game were played outside mostly on the Phelan "a " rink...several theories have been put forth over the quality of Mn hockey youth not as good as it once was..attributed to games being all indoor now...kids just as not as tough..hardly see any rink rats anymore these days..after watching (a real treat) most or all of Hibbings 2008 games I have to agree Mn plyrs as a whole. are not what they used to be

Pure and complete BS. Up until 1979, there was only one Minnesotan taken in the 1st round of the NHL draft (Phil Housley). Between 1980 and 2005, there were 15....and between 2006 and 2010 there were 14. More Minnesotans than ever are playing college hockey (D1 and D3) and playing in the Junior A ranks.

The quality of players being developed and turned out in Minnesota is better than it ever has been and it's only getting better. To say that the quality of youth hockey is "not as good as it once was" shows nothing but ignorance.

Govies, tougher? I don't know about that....... I will say that Minnesota does not put out many players (like Broten) that improvise well at the NHL level.


More time on the ice has been the main factor. Only a select few used to played in the off season, now the majority does.

The east coast has fallen off the map for developing D-1 and pro players.

Russian numbers have gone way down in the NHL.

Hockey has fallen to second in Canada in popularity to soccer among kids.....

All of these things and plenty more have helped Minnesota's numbers

MrBoDangles wrote:

muckandgrind wrote:

govies wrote:wimps...in the day as they say all of our jv game were played outside mostly on the Phelan "a " rink...several theories have been put forth over the quality of Mn hockey youth not as good as it once was..attributed to games being all indoor now...kids just as not as tough..hardly see any rink rats anymore these days..after watching (a real treat) most or all of Hibbings 2008 games I have to agree Mn plyrs as a whole. are not what they used to be

Pure and complete BS. Up until 1979, there was only one Minnesotan taken in the 1st round of the NHL draft (Phil Housley). Between 1980 and 2005, there were 15....and between 2006 and 2010 there were 14. More Minnesotans than ever are playing college hockey (D1 and D3) and playing in the Junior A ranks.

The quality of players being developed and turned out in Minnesota is better than it ever has been and it's only getting better. To say that the quality of youth hockey is "not as good as it once was" shows nothing but ignorance.

Govies, tougher? I don't know about that....... I will say that Minnesota does not put out many players (like Broten) that improvise well at the NHL level.

You're setting the bar awfully high if you want to compare every kid from Minnesota that makes it to the NHL with Neal Broten.

The fact is that this state is producing more skilled players now then we did 15, 20 and 40 years ago.

govies wrote:hill and cretin cannot seriously be considered old school hockey in mn..was a time when our pee wee team could whup up on either

What? Neither Hill or Cretin have Pee-Wee or any youth programs for that matter.

Govie wrote:

govies wrote:hill and cretin cannot seriously be considered old school hockey in mn..was a time when our pee wee team could whup up on either

What? Neither Hill or Cretin have Pee-Wee or any youth programs for that matter.

Correct. They have "multiple programs."

quanity yes quality no..big diff
and i was at that game in 1970 and we did not start our top two lines ..getting ready i guess to play one of the greatest tourney games ever against the hornets.in quarter finals

and the nhl is not as good as it once was..the talent pool is to thin many players out there now who would never had made a roster in the 50-60 and 70's expansion provided more chance but poorer quality teams

rarely do you see a team top to bottom with elite plyrs..maybe one maybe two but not 6,7 8 or more.and yes i am old and carry a different perspective then most. i saw orr play,saw gretzky at 17 with long hair,hull makita,esposito...and the old st paul saints vs mpls millers..i am so proud of every kid now and then who laces on the blades..but this constant questioning of who,what or where is the best is boring..detracts from the game..being the best is not all there is


our feeder system was studied and copied by many schools in the day...bloomington came..to watch edina...they all came to watch the phelan kids skate

and that game in 1970,i believe but i will have to make a few calls did not include the finest prep goalie ever in mn doug long..in the early days of johnson hockey and sports our team colors were pink and olive green..lol i have seen one of the hand knit jerseys from the tweenties ..love all minnesota and all players and fans young and old

1965..as long as there was ice..m-f after dinner walk to the rink..skate till they shut off the lights..then walk home..it was safe in those days to walk the streets skates slung on stick over shoulder..if friday or saturday..there b4 warming house opened ..sat in the snow laced em up and dropped the puck..if it was a full moon and clear nite we played in the dark after they shut off the lights..under the moon and stars the only sound..blades on the ice the puck hitting the boards ..laughter...talking about life as we knew it then from a-z...didnt need mom to take us to the rink in the mini van..we walked...regardless of weather...we didnt think of pros we dreamed of plyng for out hs and the mighty gophers..life was good..hockey outside is good..please dont rip on me because my experiences were different then yours ..lets share inthe great tradition of our great state..my uncles made their own shinny sticks...used to tape magazines to my shins..do kids love hockey like that now i sure hope so..next time walk to the rink..skip the mini van and the get real

Govies: Those posts are great flashbacks - stream of consciousness - random hockey thoughts. Thanks for writing them.

But I'm calling you out on that 6-0 Hill victory over Johnson on Dec. 23, 1970. Johnson was not getting ready to play Edina in the state tournament. The tournament was still 2-1/2 months away. That was the 1970-71 season and Johnson lost to Edina in the semifinals 4-2. You are probably thinking of the year before, the 1969-1970 season when Johnson played those two incredible games on Thursday & Friday at the state tournament - a 4-3 win over Greenway in 4 OT and a 2-1 OT loss to Edina. Sadly 1971 would be the end of the great Johnson state tournament teams. They only returned to the tournament 3 more times - in 1984, 1991 and 1994.

That 1970-1971 Hill team went 26-1-1 and was loaded. They had future NHLer Dave Langevin and 6 other Division 1 college players. In addition to beating Johnson 6-0, they beat the other city power Harding 4-0 nine days later. Those guys won Independent state titles in 1970 and 1972. They lost to Blake in the 1971 final.

HM does indeed have a great "old time hockey" history.

being a 71 grad of johnson and it also being the high school of my father..i am well aware of our storied history..lou.. held out his best plyrs..for many non conference games..i was alluding to the game ..yet not decided on but yet to come...i had friends..close friends on both hill teams and lifelong friends on the govies..saw every game you speak of in person..hill had great players the best went to notre dame for their first ncaaI team..go Lester..rob shattuck skated with my sister on our backyard ice..he got a state title trophy for us...need to look up how many govies ended up as gophers in the early days lets see the peletiers doug and ron..i am not trying to create any controversy on here so..i shall sit back watch listen and learn

govies wrote:quanity yes quality no..big diff
and i was at that game in 1970 and we did not start our top two lines ..getting ready i guess to play one of the greatest tourney games ever against the hornets.in quarter finals

and the nhl is not as good as it once was..the talent pool is to thin many players out there now who would never had made a roster in the 50-60 and 70's expansion provided more chance but poorer quality teams

rarely do you see a team top to bottom with elite plyrs..maybe one maybe two but not 6,7 8 or more.and yes i am old and carry a different perspective then most. i saw orr play,saw gretzky at 17 with long hair,hull makita,esposito...and the old st paul saints vs mpls millers..i am so proud of every kid now and then who laces on the blades..but this constant questioning of who,what or where is the best is boring..detracts from the game..being the best is not all there is


our feeder system was studied and copied by many schools in the day...bloomington came..to watch edina...they all came to watch the phelan kids skate

Yes, expansion created more teams, but you need to remember that virtually ALL players back then were North American. The Euros coming over in addition to the increased number of hockey players in the United States negates the "thinning" of the talent pool, as you suggest.

Hockey players are MUCH more skilled today than in the past.

govies wrote:quanity yes quality no..big diff
and i was at that game in 1970 and we did not start our top two lines ..getting ready i guess to play one of the greatest tourney games ever against the hornets.in quarter finals

and the nhl is not as good as it once was..the talent pool is to thin many players out there now who would never had made a roster in the 50-60 and 70's expansion provided more chance but poorer quality teams

rarely do you see a team top to bottom with elite plyrs..maybe one maybe two but not 6,7 8 or more.and yes i am old and carry a different perspective then most. i saw orr play,saw gretzky at 17 with long hair,hull makita,esposito...and the old st paul saints vs mpls millers..i am so proud of every kid now and then who laces on the blades..but this constant questioning of who,what or where is the best is boring..detracts from the game..being the best is not all there is


our feeder system was studied and copied by many schools in the day...bloomington came..to watch edina...they all came to watch the phelan kids skate

i think it is awesome you have those memories and remember so fondly those great teams from St. Paul.....But i dont agree with your opinions on how great you think the NHL was back then vs now.....the players today in the NHL are so far ahead of players form that era not 1 in 5 past NHL league members would sniff an NHL team today. there are exceptions sure, of course, and in that era all NHL players were elite for that time just to be there.....but the game has changed with diets, training, science, the speed, power, training, skill level now is just so far advanced...just watch video and you can see the difference right away.

stpaul wrote:

gophs1616 wrote:I don't know about you guys but I don't want to see private schools in games like this. I want to see old time hockey. Teams like Edina and Roseau going at it. It's not the weather, it's the teams that compete in it.

I don't know about you guys but I don't want to see public schools in games like this. I want to see old time hockey. Teams like Hill and Cretin going at it. It's not the weather, it's the teams that compete in it.

Whoa. Wow. I think I didn't pay attention to your original (sarcastic) post. My dad (freshman the last time the Govs won the state title ('63) said that he wan't to see more gutter teams (he didn't use those exact terms, but...) and I thought we should put MN's best on national display at all times.

I am a little torn on this one, but I think we need to get some "gutter" legendary programs in the mix but at the same time we need some of the yuppie teams (LOL) at the same time.

I think FSN and the MSHL has done a fine job so far, IMO. I think everything has been done in good class.

I've always loved playing outdoors, it just has that special feeling to it.

Nostalgia is a dangerous drug. Use it only in small doses.