Page 3 of 3
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:08 pm
by alcloseshaver
jg2112 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:28 pm
East Side Pioneer Guy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:47 pm
SEC Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:29 pm
Why are their home games at Phalen Arena and not at Aldrich? Aldrich is still a St. Paul public arena and not a shrine to Hill Murray.
Johnson asked for Ramsey County to make upgrades to Phalen-Gustafson Arena, on the JHS campus. I was among many who thought this was a great idea. This may have been about 15 years ago. Johnson had no longer needed the capacity of Aldrich. I went to a few games there at that time, and it was a pretty rockin' atmosphere.
Every public school that once made Aldrich home abandoned it, every one. None of them were shown the door. North, Tartan, Stillwater, White Bear, and Johnson all left. Ramsey County Parks entered into an agreement with HM whereby Hill financed some improvements, including locker room upgrades.
I seriously doubt that if Aldrich were not home to Hill's boys and girls programs it would even be open today. And if that were the case, where would you go for the Section 4AA and 5AA finals? Everybody whines about Hill having the advantage of home ice during section play, but they are keeping the building open. At least one other Ramsey County Arena no longer has an ice sheet.
No home ice advantages.
4AA could be at Tria, Super Rink #5, or Fogerty.
5AA final is at Elk River
Seats 1600-2000 with standing room.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:25 pm
by East Side Pioneer Guy
alcloseshaver wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:08 pm
jg2112 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:28 pm
No home ice advantages.
4AA could be at Tria, Super Rink #5, or Fogerty.
5AA final is at Elk River
Seats 1600-2000 with standing room.
I see that both Gentry and WBL have scheduled games at Aldrich this season. That's a smart move. I'm surprised the section coaches don't vote to hold all tournament games there. If you need home ice to win your quarterfinal, you ain't going anywhere, any way.
The capacity of Aldrich is inadequate for the section final. Smaller buildings are even more inadequate. Hundreds of people get turned away as it is, and some people want to turn away more. That's a great way to build interest in the sport.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:19 pm
by Cookster
Anyone know why MSHSL split up the 2AA 6AA @ Maruicci? 2AA @ Braemar, 6AA @ BIG.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:29 pm
by SEC Scotty
Cookster wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:19 pm
Anyone know why MSHSL split up the 2AA 6AA @ Maruicci? 2AA @ Braemar, 6AA @ BIG.
Can't fix stupid.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:46 pm
by MNHockeyFan
Cookster wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:19 pm
Anyone know why MSHSL split up the 2AA 6AA @ Maruicci? 2AA @ Braemar, 6AA @ BIG.
I regularly attend these finals and have noticed that the crowds at Mariucci have declined in recent years. Not that many years ago attendance was strong to the point of having to wait in long lines that went outside to get to the ticket counter? Maybe that's the reason for the move to Braemar and BIG. Or maybe the U has already committed those dates to other teams?
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:18 pm
by Cookster
If nothing else, have the games at 6 and 8 so that fans can go to both of them, even if they have to pay twice.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:20 pm
by SEC Scotty
I would like to hear a logical reason why the this decision was made.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:14 pm
by Eagles93
SEC Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:20 pm
I would like to hear a logical reason why the this decision was made.
I'm not happy about the decision, but as MNHockeyFan said, attendance has been down a lot the last few years. 6-10 years ago, some fans of the 8:00pm teams didn't get to sit down until the 2nd period because the 6:00pm fans stuck around. They clearly oversold and ticket lines were really long. Two years ago the place was maybe 40-50% full at the peak, and that might be generous. I remember joking that it was like a Gophers game.
I think part of the drop is that private schools make these finals fairly regularly now. BSM, Blake, Holy Family; and Cretin one year. It used to be the biggest schools in the state in these games every year - Edina, EP, Wayzata, Tonka, Burnsville, Jefferson.
It sucks, like Cookster said, that the games look they'll be at the same time now so you can't see both. Put them on different nights at least.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
by StanleyCup55
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:11 pm
by Slap Shot
It's a sad result but probably necessary given the dropoff in attendance. 3M can't be rented for free and if the building is at best half-full there is no financial sense to book that venue.
I graduated in '86 and can recall double-header Saturdays for Sections 2 and 6 at Met Center. If the Met was not fully packed to the rafters there were plenty of butts in the upper deck. [sigh]
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:29 pm
by BSUBeaver
StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
If attendance is already an issue, I don't think TV is going to help. And, I don't believe the MSHSL has much to do with the section decisions other than determining who is in each section. After that, it is up to the ADs/Schools to figure out what is best for them.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:18 pm
by Eagles93
TV might be a stretch as the ratings likely wouldn't be worth it, but in this day and age, maybe the MSHSL could put together a high-quality streaming package. Quality cameras, replay capability, with decent announcers. For all 8* section finals, I'd pay for that package, pretty much whatever it cost.
* No offense to class A, but I only want the AA finals. 16 games would just add that much more to the cost.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:03 pm
by SEC Scotty
Eagles93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:18 pm
TV might be a stretch as the ratings likely wouldn't be worth it, but in this day and age, maybe the MSHSL could put together a high-quality streaming package. Quality cameras, replay capability, with decent announcers. For all 8* section finals, I'd pay for that package, pretty much whatever it cost.
* No offense to class A, but I only want the AA finals. 16 games would just add that much more to the cost.
I really don’t want to watch the games on TV. I enjoy being at the rink.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:47 pm
by East Side Pioneer Guy
SEC Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:03 pm
Eagles93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:18 pm
TV might be a stretch as the ratings likely wouldn't be worth it, but in this day and age, maybe the MSHSL could put together a high-quality streaming package. Quality cameras, replay capability, with decent announcers. For all 8* section finals, I'd pay for that package, pretty much whatever it cost.
* No offense to class A, but I only want the AA finals. 16 games would just add that much more to the cost.
I really don’t want to watch the games on TV. I enjoy being at the rink.
I enjoy being at the rink too. Of course, some here insist that the 4AA final be held at a smaller venue than the inadequate one it is at now.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:30 pm
by Eagles93
Oh, I agree, I'd still go to as many metro section finals as I could, depending on the schedules. It'd be nice to be able to watch the outstate section finals. I'm sure each school would stream the games if they could, I've heard the MSHSL has pretty high fees for the rights to broadcast the games.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:38 am
by East Side Pioneer Guy
Eagles93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:30 pm
Oh, I agree, I'd still go to as many metro section finals as I could, depending on the schedules. It'd be nice to be able to watch the outstate section finals. I'm sure each school would stream the games if they could, I've heard the MSHSL has pretty high fees for the rights to broadcast the games.
The MSHSL has virtually no business sense. They have no clue how to use their most popular events and build on them further. You'd think the League is run by public school administrators without a lick of experience in private industry.
"Let's see, we stocked two cases of lime deodorant and two cases of mint. The lime sold out in a week, we still have a case and a half of the mint. Let's reorder two cases of each again!"
For years, they played the large class football championship so late on Saturday night it finished after the 10:00 news was over. It took them forever to figure out they needed to put the game most people wanted to see in prime time. These people are just not creative or experimental.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:10 pm
by mrchips
Here's a list of the top gainers in pagestat rating from 2019-20 to 21-22 (2 year span. no pagestat last year).
grade levels from mnhockeyhub.
Not the best analysis since it doesn't account for shutdown D-men and 200 foot centers, but here you go...
CAMBRIDGE-ISANTI +5.64 (top 2 scorers are sophomores, next 4 are seniors. Goalie is a freshman)
ROCHESTER LOURDES +4.86 (scoring is senior heavy, but 2 of top 5 scorers + goalie are sophs)
PROVIDENCE ACADEMY +4.82 (only 2 of top 10 scorers are seniors. goalies are Soph and Jr)
CHANHASSEN +4.15 (7 of the top 8 scorers are non-seniors. top 2 are sophs)
ROCHESTER MAYO +4.08 (3 of top 4 scorers are juniors. goalies are Jr and Sr)
SPRING LAKE PARK +3.67 (top 2 scorers are seniors, and they score 60% of the goals. next 3 are Jr and Sophs)
MINNEAPOLIS +3.67 (goal scoring and goaltending are pretty senior-heavy)
COON RAPIDS +3.62 (3 of top 4 scorers are seniors, but a lot of sophomore scoring as well, including #1)
LA CRESCENT +3.53 (#131 overall this year, up from #148)
ROSEAU +3.15 (4 of the top 5 scorers + goalie are seniors)
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:58 pm
by Brodziak Fan Club
mrchips wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:10 pm
Here's a list of the top gainers in pagestat rating from 2019-20 to 21-22 (2 year span. no pagestat last year).
grade levels from mnhockeyhub.
Not the best analysis since it doesn't account for shutdown D-men and 200 foot centers, but here you go...
CAMBRIDGE-ISANTI +5.64 (top 2 scorers are sophomores, next 4 are seniors. Goalie is a freshman)
ROCHESTER LOURDES +4.86 (scoring is senior heavy, but 2 of top 5 scorers + goalie are sophs)
PROVIDENCE ACADEMY +4.82 (only 2 of top 10 scorers are seniors. goalies are Soph and Jr)
CHANHASSEN +4.15 (7 of the top 8 scorers are non-seniors. top 2 are sophs)
ROCHESTER MAYO +4.08 (3 of top 4 scorers are juniors. goalies are Jr and Sr)
SPRING LAKE PARK +3.67 (top 2 scorers are seniors, and they score 60% of the goals. next 3 are Jr and Sophs)
MINNEAPOLIS +3.67 (goal scoring and goaltending are pretty senior-heavy)
COON RAPIDS +3.62 (3 of top 4 scorers are seniors, but a lot of sophomore scoring as well, including #1)
LA CRESCENT +3.53 (#131 overall this year, up from #148)
ROSEAU +3.15 (4 of the top 5 scorers + goalie are seniors)
Cool analysis. Thanks for posting!
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:13 pm
by O-townClown
Great recap. This is why I am the Chan Fan. Will be a solid Top 10 team the next two seasons at AA. Huge strides for a school that has never won a playoff game.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:10 am
by WestMetro
Another thought on Section finals :
Braemar and Aldrich have gone 100% to on line advance ticket sales this year .No cash sales at the door . How will that work come playoffs ? In pre Covid Feb 2020 , 3AA and 4AA finals sold out and now 2AA could sell out . Will we all have to go on line at midnite after semis in a mad scramble for on line Aldrich and Braemar section final tix?
Meanwhile 6AA at BiG could also sell out but cash tickets sold at door ?
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:45 am
by goldy313
I had Rochester Mayo in this group, I was wrong. Mayo will be extremely lucky to get a home game in the 1AA quarterfinals; South, Hastings, North, and at least Dodge County should be seeded higher. Mayo is seriously underachieving thus far. A team I thought had an outside shot at the state tournament may be begging for a six seed in a weak section.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:18 pm
by Sparlimb
StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
In the 80's and early 90's they did a 5 game section final marathon (one ticket for all 5 games) at the Met Center. I'm not sure the Xcel Center is going to offer an entire day up for that, but it would be fun if they did. As I recall, those weren't overflowing either. 1AA was there and the Rochester teams didn't bring a ton of fans...
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:51 pm
by northwoods oldtimer
Sparlimb wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:18 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
In the 80's and early 90's they did a 5 game section final marathon (one ticket for all 5 games) at the Met Center. I'm not sure the Xcel Center is going to offer an entire day up for that, but it would be fun if they did. As I recall, those weren't overflowing either. 1AA was there and the Rochester teams didn't bring a ton of fans...
Good time!
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:17 am
by Slap Shot
Sparlimb wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:18 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
In the 80's and early 90's they did a 5 game section final marathon (one ticket for all 5 games) at the Met Center. I'm not sure the Xcel Center is going to offer an entire day up for that, but it would be fun if they did. As I recall, those weren't overflowing either. 1AA was there and the Rochester teams didn't bring a ton of fans...
Wow I don't recall that at all. I do remember when Sections 2 and 6 would play same day at the Met in the mid-80s when there was still only 1 class. if Jefferson, Kennedy, Edina and/or Minnetonka were heavily represented the upper level would get a decent amount of traffic.
Re: Teams Making a Jump to Relevance
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:23 am
by Sparlimb
Slap Shot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:17 am
Sparlimb wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:18 pm
StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:52 am
You’d think the MSHSL would make a bigger deal of the section finals. It would be great to go see a couple games per night at the same venue within a few days. Surprised they don’t even televise these games on regular tv. I would think a lot of people would watch to see who makes state plus they’re usually good games. I’ve always thought it’s strange that the state tourney is such a big deal but there seems to be such little public interest in how teams get there.
In the 80's and early 90's they did a 5 game section final marathon (one ticket for all 5 games) at the Met Center. I'm not sure the Xcel Center is going to offer an entire day up for that, but it would be fun if they did. As I recall, those weren't overflowing either. 1AA was there and the Rochester teams didn't bring a ton of fans...
Wow I don't recall that at all. I do remember when Sections 2 and 6 would play same day at the Met in the mid-80s when there was still only 1 class. if Jefferson, Kennedy, Edina and/or Minnetonka were heavily represented the upper level would get a decent amount of traffic.
well the 5 game thing was after Tier II came in, because there was one Tier II section final. My memory of that time has faded some, so I can't recall how many times I was there for section finals. According to HM's hockey site, they started playing Section 3 Finals at the Met Center in 1983.