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blueblood wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm AC Wings to 2A form 6AA

Obviously a petition to move down, but it isn’t like they were completely overwhelmed in AA.

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:57 pm Wow. A lot of opting down to A. Soon the AA tourney will just be Edina vs all private schools. How exciting!

Some of these Class A sections are becoming pretty unwieldy in size. We have basically reached the point that Karl discussed of AA just being 64 teams including opt-ups.

It looks to me like they’re setting up to go with 3 classes after the next meeting in two years which I’ve heard (on here) is going to be a big change.

Stang5280 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:00 pm

blueblood wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm AC Wings to 2A form 6AA

Obviously a petition to move down, but it isn’t like they were completely overwhelmed in AA.

yeah. that's odd. PageStat only has 8 teams above them at the A level this last season. 3 bantam teams in the youth level.

http://www.minnhock.com/ps2019.htm

mrchips wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:23 pm

Stang5280 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:00 pm

blueblood wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm AC Wings to 2A form 6AA

Obviously a petition to move down, but it isn’t like they were completely overwhelmed in AA.

yeah. that's odd. PageStat only has 8 teams above them at the A level this last season. 3 bantam teams in the youth level.

http://www.minnhock.com/ps2019.htm

Did I ever tell you the one about the MAML team a couple years back..? Three schools combined having 1,700 students and they had 4 or 5 foreign exchange players including one that now plays for his national team to top it off.... Talk about a good hoodwinking......

Stang5280 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:57 pm

blueblood wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:47 pm Dodge County to 1A from 1AA

Goldy’s wish has been granted!

I know this fall there had been a lot of discussion at Kasson-Mantorville about dropping schools from their co-op. Most of the Dodge County players are from Kasson and Byron, the rest of the schools don't have players every year. Now, I believe Kasson and Byron combined would be pretty close to the AA cutoff (both schools will be AA in Track) so penalizing Dodge County for letting a kid from Blooming Prairie with no other place to play seemed harsh. The timing is a bit ironic as the Dodge County Bantam A team made the state tournament while the rest of 1AA, aside from Hastings, seems on the downswing the next couple of years.

Century dropped their co-op with Stewartville, I would think that would nearly put them in A.

Curious how they come up with these? In girls hockey they moved Tonka in with Blake and Edina. Yikes. Somehow the Lakeville schools are in different sections, what in the actual $&@$?

The MSHSL has made it very clear they dont care about competitive balance they care about GEOGRAPHICAL balance.

cjmhockey19 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:09 pm The MSHSL has made it very clear they dont care about competitive balance they care about GEOGRAPHICAL balance.

And yet the eternal mystery of keeping CDH in 6AA with a bunch of west suburban schools remains.

Just looked at the MSHSL website, Tartan and North St. Paul are not in any section.

inthetwine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:22 am Just looked at the MSHSL website, Tartan and North St. Paul are not in any section.

I take that back, MSHSL has them both in 4A, is this correct?

inthetwine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:33 am

inthetwine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:22 am Just looked at the MSHSL website, Tartan and North St. Paul are not in any section.

I take that back, MSHSL has them both in 4A, is this correct?

Yes

Tartan and North St. Paul are both in 4A.

They also have St. Agnes is 4A, I don’t think St. Agnes has hockey in nearly 30 years.

goldy313 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:46 am Tartan and North St. Paul are both in 4A.

They also have St. Agnes is 4A, I don’t think St. Agnes has hockey in nearly 30 years.

St. Agnes is with SPA co-op

BP wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:28 pm

goldy313 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:46 am Tartan and North St. Paul are both in 4A.

They also have St. Agnes is 4A, I don’t think St. Agnes has hockey in nearly 30 years.

St. Agnes is with SPA co-op

Is that new? I thought Agnes was previously with Minnehaha Academy, and they had to petition down to single A based on cooperative enrollment.

I am curious to see the new enrollment figures come out so we know where the true cutoff line is for A/AA, and who appealed down to A. Northfield was previously just below the AA line, so it isn’t surprising to see them move up, but unless Tartan and NSP lost significant enrollment (about 100 students), they would have to petition down to A.

Enrollment is irrelevant. It seems if you want to opt down you can. Do they ever refuse an opt down?

cjmhockey19 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:09 pm The MSHSL has made it very clear they dont care about competitive balance they care about GEOGRAPHICAL balance.

Then how in the hell do they split up Lakeville North and South?

Mite-dad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:13 pm Enrollment is irrelevant. It seems if you want to opt down you can. Do they ever refuse an opt down?

It certainly seems to be that way. 1AA is now the only AA section with more than eight teams. It would have been interesting to see how the MSHSL would’ve handled the appeals if a few teams (Duluth Marshall or Bemidji, as hypothetical examples) had decided to play at the A level. The league might actually have to deny appeals or face the prospect of having a seven team AA section.

GopherHockey wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:46 pm

cjmhockey19 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:09 pm The MSHSL has made it very clear they dont care about competitive balance they care about GEOGRAPHICAL balance.

Then how in the hell do they split up Lakeville North and South?

Exactly because of geography, actually. There are 7 teams south of Lakeville South. Add in Lakeville North and South to the girls section 1AA and you have a 9 team section and two sections of 7. Keep South in 1AA and move North to 3AA, then you have each of those sections with 8 teams and have just one 7 team section in the state. Geography and enrollment (unless opting down/up) are the only determiners.

Stang5280 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:00 pm

blueblood wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm AC Wings to 2A form 6AA

Obviously a petition to move down, but it isn’t like they were completely overwhelmed in AA.

I like this move. It will make 2A even more competitive. Overall, this is my favorite section to watch in the metro area.

StanleyCup55 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:09 pm It looks to me like they’re setting up to go with 3 classes after the next meeting in two years which I’ve heard (on here) is going to be a big change.

MSHSL got to sell mediocrity. What public fools do best.

Stang5280 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:42 pm

BP wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:28 pm

goldy313 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:46 am Tartan and North St. Paul are both in 4A.

They also have St. Agnes is 4A, I don’t think St. Agnes has hockey in nearly 30 years.

St. Agnes is with SPA co-op

Is that new? I thought Agnes was previously with Minnehaha Academy, and they had to petition down to single A based on cooperative enrollment.

This past season was the first season they were with SPA. They left the previous co-op and joined SPA.

There is a loop hole for teams to move to A. If you have over 50% reduced lunch program in you school - you can move down. That is what Armstrong, Tartan, NSP, Kennedy all can do and what they took advantage of.

BP wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:29 am There is a loop hole for teams to move to A. If you have over 50% reduced lunch program in you school - you can move down. That is what Armstrong, Tartan, NSP, Kennedy all can do and what they took advantage of.

I don’t have a problem with that rationale in theory, as studies have shown that kids from lower income households are less likely to participate in sports, particularly an expensive one like hockey.

However, like any loophole it can be abused, and seems to be in some cases. For example, while the Minneapolis cooperative as a whole may have over 50% free and reduced lunch (FRE), you have to look at where the players are coming from. As of a few years ago, I know there was an article mentioning that all but one player was from Southwest (the other being from Washburn), which has a FRE of 36%. I imagine there is a similar situation in Robbinsdale, with most players coming from Armstrong, which has a FRE of 35%. Yes, the cooperative arrangements provide opportunities for players who may not otherwise have a high school team, but it seems like there needs to be another way to evaluate their classifications.

Lastly, the Tartan situation is somewhat disconcerting in that they are a team with only two seasons below .500 since their back-to-back state appearances in 2004 and 2005. They had 18 wins in 2016-17 and 17 the next season, making the 4AA semifinals both years. That is not a team struggling to compete at the level their enrollment would dictate.