HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

If a man draws a line in the sand, it's easy Herm over STA.

MrBoDangles wrote:

puckhead58 wrote:You would be hard pressed to find another school the size of Hemantown in the state that is fielding youth teams (Bantam & PeeWee) at AA, A, & B levels. Doesn't seem to me that they are backing away from competition. The talent in these smaller towns waxes & wanes year to year (as opposed to the privates that get to cherry pick year after year). Schools like Hermantown are exactly what Class A was intended for. Go on back to bashing private schools.

karl, are we able to gold plate these words?

If only, Bo, if only. That's the best I can do for you.

MNHockeyFan wrote:Not true - the privates do a better job cherry picking in some years than others, so their talent waxes & wanes also.

I definitely agree. In fact, because private schools don't have semi-stable youth programs feeding into them, I think it's easier for them to have a dramatic swing. Obviously some programs like Hill are so established that they bring in great talent year in and year out, but in general, private schools can rise and fall much faster than public schools. Look at Holy Family--two years ago they were a doormat, and now they may be well on their way to contention. And though it hasn't happened often, it can go the other way, too--Holy Angels has sure fallen off a cliff in recent years after dominating from 02-07 or so.

Also, to answer the Marshall question: yes. Around 2008, there was probably as much ranting about Marshall on here as there was about STA. That dropped off when the team dropped off, but if they take control of 7A again (which is looking quite possible), it'll begin anew.

Per Karl's request...

This STA stuff is amusing. My question about STA is why parents send their kids there?? It's one thing to send your kid to a private school, I've done that...but why send them to a school where there are NO GIRLS?? Isn't that setting the boy/man development process a little back? You can tell me that "Vis" is right around the corner...but being in classes with girls, checking out girls in HS hallways and you know, actually dating girls is what HS is all about! Wearing goofy, military uniforms on top of it is the icing on the cake.

Why not send the kids to schools that actually have girls? Or play Class AA hockey? I'm sure the academics are pretty similar at Blake, Breck, BSM, AHA or Hill. Why would STA be more attractive than some of these other schools?

Concerning STA....

Don't ask, don't tell.

Napalm187 wrote:Per Karl's request...

This STA stuff is amusing. My question about STA is why parents send their kids there?? It's one thing to send your kid to a private school, I've done that...but why send them to a school where there are NO GIRLS?? Isn't that setting the boy/man development process a little back? You can tell me that "Vis" is right around the corner...but being in classes with girls, checking out girls in HS hallways and you know, actually dating girls is what HS is all about! Wearing goofy, military uniforms on top of it is the icing on the cake.

Why not send the kids to schools that actually have girls? Or play Class AA hockey? I'm sure the academics are pretty similar at Blake, Breck, BSM, AHA or Hill. Why would STA be more attractive than some of these other schools?

I can think of two reasons: Bringing home a state championship trophy every year (even if it's just the JV trophy). Getting an automatic berth in the elite league. Two sure bets. Girls? You just can't count on 'em.

And what do you have against uniforms? It's how you can tell who's on your team and who isn't.

Shinbone_News wrote:

Napalm187 wrote:Per Karl's request...

This STA stuff is amusing. My question about STA is why parents send their kids there?? It's one thing to send your kid to a private school, I've done that...but why send them to a school where there are NO GIRLS?? Isn't that setting the boy/man development process a little back? You can tell me that "Vis" is right around the corner...but being in classes with girls, checking out girls in HS hallways and you know, actually dating girls is what HS is all about! Wearing goofy, military uniforms on top of it is the icing on the cake.

Why not send the kids to schools that actually have girls? Or play Class AA hockey? I'm sure the academics are pretty similar at Blake, Breck, BSM, AHA or Hill. Why would STA be more attractive than some of these other schools?

I can think of two reasons: Bringing home a state championship trophy every year (even if it's just the JV trophy). Getting an automatic berth in the elite league. Two sure bets. Girls? You just can't count on 'em.

And what do you have against uniforms? It's how you can tell who's on your team and who isn't.

Play the top 2A and 1A teams all season; then win the state class A championship. What other school can offer that? Pretty appealing ride if you ask me. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone in their program that it is class A.

truehockeyfan wrote:I have no idea what the actual numbers of transfers are in the Duluth area but I would suspect that there is at least some open enrollment in the Duluth schools.

Did people give Duluth Marshal a bad rep when they were dominant a couple years back?

When Marshall is good, East is mediocre, and vice versa. Depends on where the Duluth talent decides to go, yet Marshall is A while East is AA.

Marshall got a sophomore from Silver Bay and a senior from Proctor to join their team this season, and they just happen to be good players. Did their families all of a sudden just realize the public school education their kids were getting was inferior? Or is it just for hockey? I'm guessing the latter.

It's fine that kids transfer to private schools within the MSHSL rules, but if anyone believes they are doing it for the education, they are fooling themselves.

I think the anti-STA sentiment is a getting to be a game-changer. Elite metro kids in associations that feed weak public school programs look at STA vs. AHA or BSM and say they'd rather play AA. They surely get more exposure to the NHL, D1, and juniors scouts at AA.

STA has had a little luck recently placing kids at D1 schools -- but not as much as you'd think if they are sandbagging it with true D1-level talent.

The official word from STA, which I've heard from people there, is that they (the school administrators) don't want STA to become a hockey destination school -- they might get their wish!

On the other hand, something that doesn't get said much is that the very strong and growing associations of Sibley and Highland are becoming straight-line feeders for STA. I don;t think "cherrypicking" is exactly accurate when it comes to describing how a team like STA is put together. All those talented Sibley kids that, for example, got noticed at Squirt As last year -- they're attending STA summer programs and they skate practices there a couple times a week. There's a direct reason why Highland and Sibley aren't competing at the high school level, just like Minneapolis isn't. Their best talent is setting their sights, from an early age, on the nearby private with a good, competitive program.

Do they get the occasional disgruntled kid from the Western suburbs or Wisconsin who can't get a fair shake at their local public? Sure. But the meat-and-potatoes of their lineup is going to be one or two city feeders, the way Wayzata feeds Breck, Minneapolis feeds BSM, etc.

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:Concerning STA....

Don't ask, don't tell.

Ya they're all homosexual that's it!

Shinbone_News wrote:On the other hand, something that doesn't get said much is that the very strong and growing associations of Sibley area and Highland area are becoming straight-line feeders for STA. I don;t think "cherrypicking" is exactly accurate when it comes to describing how a team like STA is put together. All those talented Sibley kids that, for example, got noticed at Squirt As last year -- they're attending STA summer programs and they skate practices there a couple times a week. There's a direct reason why Highland and Sibley aren't competing at the high school level, just like Minneapolis isn't. Their best talent is setting their sights, from an early age, on the nearby private with a good, competitive program.

You know St. Thomas and Sibley are in the same town right?

Shinbone_News wrote:I think the anti-STA sentiment is a getting to be a game-changer. Elite metro kids in associations that feed weak public school programs look at STA vs. AHA or BSM and say they'd rather play AA. They surely get more exposure to the NHL, D1, and juniors scouts at AA.

STA has had a little luck recently placing kids at D1 schools -- but not as much as you'd think if they are sandbagging it with true D1-level talent.

The official word from STA, which I've heard from people there, is that they (the school administrators) don't want STA to become a hockey destination school -- they might get their wish!

On the other hand, something that doesn't get said much is that the very strong and growing associations of Sibley and Highland are becoming straight-line feeders for STA. I don;t think "cherrypicking" is exactly accurate when it comes to describing how a team like STA is put together. All those talented Sibley kids that, for example, got noticed at Squirt As last year -- they're attending STA summer programs and they skate practices there a couple times a week. There's a direct reason why Highland and Sibley aren't competing at the high school level, just like Minneapolis isn't. Their best talent is setting their sights, from an early age, on the nearby private with a good, competitive program.

Do they get the occasional disgruntled kid from the Western suburbs or Wisconsin who can't get a fair shake at their local public? Sure. But the meat-and-potatoes of their lineup is going to be one or two city feeders, the way Wayzata feeds Breck, Minneapolis feeds BSM, etc.

Does anyone get the concept that some of these private school kids are pre destined to attend private schools whether or not they happen to play hockey.

just look at some of the captains from 4 of last years privates
HM-two of them son of alumni
STA-one son of STA alum another son of cretin
BSM-son of alum
TG- two sons of alum

Pretty sure they all went to private grade schools, was anyone surprised they went to private high school. Im sure playing hockey at a private high school was on the top of their list when they were picking which catholic kindergarten they should attend.

rainier wrote:It's fine that kids transfer to private schools within the MSHSL rules, but if anyone believes they are doing it for the education, they are fooling themselves.

Wow, just wow. Where did you find a brush that broad, I've never seen one like that at Home Depot.

I personally know about 8 boys that have transferred from some really good public schools to privates. Only one of whom has made varsity (and that was totally an unexpected bonus because the private happened to be really down that year). Every dam one of them went for educational reasons and none of them expected to make a varsity team. My own kid is now going to a private and he certainly didn't go for any athletic reasons 'cause it is very unlikely he'll ever make a varsity team (he got my genes). On the other hand, the smaller class sizes and teachers who care and adapt to each student has made it a wonderful experience for him so far.

puckhead58 wrote:You would be hard pressed to find another school the size of Hemantown in the state that is fielding youth teams (Bantam & PeeWee) at AA, A, & B levels. Doesn't seem to me that they are backing away from competition. The talent in these smaller towns waxes & wanes year to year (as opposed to the privates that get to cherry pick year after year). Schools like Hermantown are exactly what Class A was intended for. Go on back to bashing private schools.

I must point out the wrongness of your statement. Hermantown the school does not field youth hockey teams. Hermantown the youth hockey organization fields the youth hockey teams. There is no administrative oversight between the school's hockey program and the youth hockey program. This is a false association that too many people in Minnesota Hockey like to draw. Just because they are the same in name does not mean one is necessarily tied to the other.

I had nothing better to do last night, so I took a look at the private schools. I have found some interesting facts about the effect of one class and two classes had on high school hockey. I took what I feel are the powers of the private hockey teams and add I also added Holy Family to the mix. It is broken down by 1 class, two tiers, class A & AA.

From MSHSL website competitive section assignments.
64 Largest and Schools that opt up Class AA
Remainder of schools Class A

Break down 155 Teams
Class AA 72 Teams of that 15 of them are Co-Ops, of the 72 teams 4 schools that are not a Co-Op have a total school enrollment below 750. (Biggest School - Eden Prairie 3007, Smallest School - Roseau 374)
Class A 83 Teams of that 41 of them are Co-Ops. (Biggest School Henry Sibley 1201 -, Smallest School -Achiever NE Academy 80 new private school in Eagan 2012)

School Enrollment 1945-91 1Class 1992-93Tiers 1&2 1994-2012Class A 1994-2012Class AA
BSM 930 0 0 2 trips. 2 titles 2 trips. 1 title
Blake 521 0 0 5 trips. 0 titles
Breck 398 0 0 9 trips. 4 titles
Cretin 1328 1 0 2 trips. 1 title
D. Marshall 236 0 0 5 trips, 0 titles
Holy Angels 741 0 0 5 trips, 2 titles
Holy Family 595 0 0 0 0 op up in 2011
Hill Murray 705 13 trips, 2 titles 2 10 trips, 1 title
Totino Grace 802 0 0 3 trips, 1 title
STA 1066 0 0 10 trips, 4 titles

Total number of tournament teams and titles during each era.

1945 – 91 1 Class Tournament: Total Teams: 368 Total Titles: 46
Appearances by Private School : Total App: 14 Total Titles Won : 2
% of time Private made it and won: 4% 4%


1992 – 93 Tiers 1, 2: Total Teams Both Tiers: 32 Total Titles: 4
Appearances by Private School: Total app: 2 Total Titles Won: 0
% of time Private made it and won: 13% 0

1994 – 2012 Class A: Total Teams Class A: 144 Total Titles: 18
Appearances by Private School: Total app: 34 Total Titles Won: 11
% of time Private made it and won: 24% 61%

1994 – 2012 Class AA: Total Teams Class A: 144 Total Titles: 18
Appearances by Private School: Total app: 19 Total Titles Won: 5
% of time Private made it and won: 13% 28%



Class A, Breck, STA, Warroad all have 4 titles, tied for most in Class A.

Class AA, Holy Angels, D. East, Edina, Eden Prairie, Roseau all have 2 titles tied for most in Class AA

Since we have gone to a 2 Class hockey state tournament we have awarded 36 total state titles in hockey between the two classes, 44% (16) both classes have been won by a private school and 11 of the 16 have been in Class A by a private. A total of 8 titles between Breck and STA.

I think this just proves what we all have been saying it is time to move Breck and STA up to Class AA, BSM did just fine by moving up 4 trips to state 2 in A and 2 titles and 2 trips in AA and 1 title. I feel that Marshall, Totino, Blake can stay in A.

This is going to be the last time I say anything about Breck and STA. They love it when we talk about them all the time on here. If we stop paying any attention to them and given people a reason to watch them or hear their school names maybe they will get the picture and kids will look at other private schools or even stay with their public school. Let’s start the non posting and talking about these two teams on the forum.

C-dad wrote:

rainier wrote:It's fine that kids transfer to private schools within the MSHSL rules, but if anyone believes they are doing it for the education, they are fooling themselves.

Wow, just wow. Where did you find a brush that broad, I've never seen one like that at Home Depot.

I personally know about 8 boys that have transferred from some really good public schools to privates. Only one of whom has made varsity (and that was totally an unexpected bonus because the private happened to be really down that year). Every dam one of them went for educational reasons and none of them expected to make a varsity team. My own kid is now going to a private and he certainly didn't go for any athletic reasons 'cause it is very unlikely he'll ever make a varsity team (he got my genes). On the other hand, the smaller class sizes and teachers who care and adapt to each student has made it a wonderful experience for him so far.

I hear ya. I meant the top players.

shotpassskate wrote:I had nothing better to do last night, so I took a look at the private schools.
*STA enrollment is a combination of Visitation (all girls school) 606 and STA Boys 460 to get 1066

Your number crunching is adorable but you don't have any idea on how the MSHSL calculates enrollment numbers apparently. Use the search function on this forum and find one of the hundreds of other topics on this where it lays out the methodology for determining the number. (I'll give you a clue, the first step doesn't involve counting the number of students in the a school that happens to be nearby the one in question)

Here are some handy links that would probably be good for your research too.
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments.asp
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/classBreakdown.asp
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/news/method.htm
http://www.cadets.com/page/365[/i]

This is not that complicated. STA had 533 boys last year in grades 9-12. Thus the MSHSL doubles it to 1066 for school size comparisons.

thestickler07 wrote:

shotpassskate wrote:I had nothing better to do last night, so I took a look at the private schools.
*STA enrollment is a combination of Visitation (all girls school) 606 and STA Boys 460 to get 1066

Your number crunching is adorable but you don't have any idea on how the MSHSL calculates enrollment numbers apparently. Use the search function on this forum and find one of the hundreds of other topics on this where it lays out the methodology for determining the number. (I'll give you a clue, the first step doesn't involve counting the number of students in the a school that happens to be nearby the one in question)

Here are some handy links that would probably be good for your research too.
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments.asp
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/classBreakdown.asp
http://mshsl.org/mshsl/news/method.htm
http://www.cadets.com/page/365[/i]

Stickler07,
I am so sorry for the mistake. I miss read something. I realize I was wrong and I hope that you and all the Cadets can forgive me? It must be my education I got from a public school in Duluth, but then my high school has always played up and not been a trophy chaser.

shotpassskate wrote:Stickler07,
I am so sorry for the mistake. I miss read something. I realize I was wrong and I hope that you and all the Cadets can forgive me? It must be my education I got from a public school in Duluth, but then my high school has always played up and not been a trophy chaser.

Where did you misread that STA and Visitation combined enrollments for classification purposes?

The answer to all this is all so simple:

One 16 team/One class State tourney. Have the sixteen section winners meet in St. Paul in March. This way you still have 16 teams shooting for winning a title, there would be no more JV trash talk and if the small schools are good enough to make it to the show...so be it.

Or.... we could just keep reguritating this same whinny, boring crap
every year?

Howie Hanson lays it down in the STrib about an early look at this season. Only A team he bothers to mention is everyone's favorite.

http://www.startribune.com/local/yourvo ... 81961.html

thestickler07 wrote:Howie Hanson lays it down in the STrib about an early look at this season. Only A team he bothers to mention is everyone's favorite.

http://www.startribune.com/local/yourvo ... 81961.html

Actually, it looks like Howie managed to copy down Loren Nelson's opinions.

Which, as far as Howie's coverage of anything hockey-related goes, is actually a dramatic improvement.

karl(east) wrote:

thestickler07 wrote:Howie Hanson lays it down in the STrib about an early look at this season. Only A team he bothers to mention is everyone's favorite.

http://www.startribune.com/local/yourvo ... 81961.html

Actually, it looks like Howie managed to copy down Loren Nelson's opinions.

Which, as far as Howie's coverage of anything hockey-related goes, is actually a dramatic improvement.

Shouldn't have assumed the posted by was the byline haha. Here's to hoping STA makes it three in a row and decides that 5 titles in 8 years is enough in A.

Probably won't, but I'm kinda more hopeful with the new student center facility opening this spring that they'll step up to bat in all sports.

thestickler07 wrote:

OGEE OGELTHORPE wrote:Concerning STA....

Don't ask, don't tell.

Ya they're all homosexual that's it!

I never knew.......!