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Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:36 am**

In my opinion nobody deserves an automtic on any elite team including players that were on the team the previous year. As you must no players all peak at different times in there young hockey careers. I have a hard time believing that the best players are actually playing on these teams. Plain and simple the entire process is a huge league fundraiser.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:10 am**

all4sk8ing wrote:For everybody that is upset with the tryout process, did you ever think that if all the automatics were required to try out (because they obviously are already on a list and would get the first invites) that this would decrease the number of slots open for players hoping to get an invite.. I was at a tryout and it was very common knowledge among parents and players that there were probably only 4 to 7 slots available. But, at least there was a larger pool of players that had a chance at these slots than if the automatics had to participate (remember, 20 + players/roster) because chances are they are still going to get the green light like they probably deserve.

The tryout used a little under 6 hours of actual ice time. There were 80 players paying $110. Based on the number of automatics this year, if you required everyone to tryout (except returners) it would be 36 more players or two more teams. I would think that with the additional $4000 they could buy more ice rather than eliminate slots. These guys understand that they have a good fundraiser here and they wouldn't want to give that up by eliminating slots. That gives them over $12,000 to have 6 teams and somehow I think they could still afford the ice, a kid being a ref and a few pucks. It probably wouldn't change the final outcome but it would at least make it look better.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:48 pm**

You stated that you know a player who was offerred a spot at NDTP, turned it down and received an automatic birth. Some one made a point that all players who received a tryout received an automatic bid. Are you aware of any players who tried out for NDTP and did not receive an automatic invite?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:02 am**

I believe that JD Cotroneo tried out for the NDTP and is not currently on an Elite roster.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:39 pm**

Avermann wrote:In my opinion nobody deserves an automtic on any elite team including players that were on the team the previous year. As you must no players all peak at different times in there young hockey careers. I have a hard time believing that the best players are actually playing on these teams. Plain and simple the entire process is a huge league fundraiser.

You contradict yourself...if it was just a fundraiser than there would be no automatics.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:23 pm**

my point being there was alot of money being made from all the kids that tried out that didnt know that the majority of the team had already been picked before the tryout. Alot of funds being made for the team which i consider to be a fundraiser.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:39 pm**

Avermann wrote:my point being there was alot of money being made from all the kids that tried out that didnt know that the majority of the team had already been picked before the tryout. Alot of funds being made for the team which i consider to be a fundraiser.

Fair enough....I can agree w/ the money....but you are wrong on the auto bids...some kids shouldn't have to tryout..in fact the prior varsity season is a tryout. The league is Invite Only I believe...you can get invited to join the team and you can get invited to tryout. Not perfect but certainly not bad.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:26 pm**

Hoops wrote:
Avermann wrote:
in fact the prior varsity season is a tryout.

Is that why players that were bantams last year didn't have to try out?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:15 pm**

GR3343 wrote:
Hoops wrote:
Avermann wrote:
in fact the prior varsity season is a tryout.

Is that why players that were bantams last year didn't have to try out?
Really? Wow..that does seem a bit much...if that's true. But the reason for the league is to keep kids playing H.S. Hockey...so if they identify kids they want to invite...so be it.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:55 pm**

Hoops wrote: Fair enough....I can agree w/ the money....but you are wrong on the auto bids...some kids shouldn't have to tryout..in fact the prior varsity season is a tryout. The league is Invite Only I believe...you can get invited to join the team and you can get invited to tryout. Not perfect but certainly not bad.

Perhaps if Elite league wants to do auto bids they could give some sort of criteria on their website. For example, must have played varsity all year and established themselves as 'elite' level player - OR - must have made it to nationals in Select 16 or 17 - OR - must have excelled at State Hockey tourney etc.. If you don't meet the criteria, you are required to try out.

By having some sort of criteria that everyone can see on their website people would maybe have less issues when a player is given an auto bid. I think the issue now is that some of the players receiving auto bids did not have exceptional varsity hockey last year, did not get to nationals in select 16 or 17, did not excel at State tourney etc.. In other words, people can't see anything else other than politics for some of the selections for an auto bid. Not that politics won't exist still (its part of life) but perhaps it will give the league more credibility.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:57 pm**

Interestingly, none of the top 4 returning point scorers from section 1AA are on any team, even from section champ Century, but two Lakeville South kids are.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:13 pm**

thought there was just one south kid?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:21 pm**

I think Seek & Destroy has got it right. There should be no Bantam automatics (that just smacks of politics) in my opinion but I do agree that there are certain kids who have proved repeatedly over time that they are an elite player in MN and should not be required to try out. My guess is that many of the kids "invited" to tryout were happy for the opportunity to try out - obviously they are way ahead of others and if there were more teams, would get a shot. No one great answer but lots of good suggestions on this thread. I like the criteria listed - if you haven't accomplished any of those, hard to consider you an elite MN player.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:44 am**

keepyourheadup wrote:thought there was just one south kid?

There is one each in teams B and C south, and I missed a Lakeville North kid in team D.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:39 am**

They should all have to tryout. The problem is some of they might not fair as well as they are preceived to be, which would hurt them more.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:17 am**

Young blood is right, the tryout is diluted being the automatics are not in attendance. Just like summer hockey. The returning varsity player has a baseball game and you bring in JV and Bantams to finish out the squad.

With no automatic in attendance it does leave more spot on the tryout for paying individuals?

Drop the tryout and pick them all?

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:51 pm**

You know, if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints.

If they picked the teams without any tryouts, there would be complaints.

They do it with some picked and some from tryouts, and there are complaints.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Remember, this isn't MN Hockey, or the MN HSL, or anything other than what it is. If it didn't work, the best wouldn't be playing as they would stay away in droves. If some didn't want to take a chance and hope to be found, they wouldn't have anyone at tryout sessions.

I'm not too sure, but I feel pretty safe in assuming that the organization as a whole isn't looking for advice. Things seem to be working pretty well and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:20 pm**

Blue&Gold wrote:You know, if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints.

If they picked the teams without any tryouts, there would be complaints.

They do it with some picked and some from tryouts, and there are complaints.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Remember, this isn't MN Hockey, or the MN HSL, or anything other than what it is. If it didn't work, the best wouldn't be playing as they would stay away in droves. If some didn't want to take a chance and hope to be found, they wouldn't have anyone at tryout sessions.

I'm not too sure, but I feel pretty safe in assuming that the organization as a whole isn't looking for advice. Things seem to be working pretty well and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Very true statement but you have your head in the sand if you think it hasnt gotten alot worse in the last 3 years. There is a kid who was a 3rd-4th line player at a team that was 7-18 last year, he had 9 goals last year, none of the goals were against a team with a winning record, he is going to be a junior, he is in the league....that should not happen....but it does. How it happens I dont know but it does and that is what gets everyone excited.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:47 pm**

summer I thought you meant on a final team, my mistake, one south player got placed the two that tried out did not make it. It looks like the fhit program is doing a lot for their kids...6 six STA kids on final rosters.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:51 pm**

flatontheice wrote:
Blue&Gold wrote:You know, if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints.

If they picked the teams without any tryouts, there would be complaints.

They do it with some picked and some from tryouts, and there are complaints.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Remember, this isn't MN Hockey, or the MN HSL, or anything other than what it is. If it didn't work, the best wouldn't be playing as they would stay away in droves. If some didn't want to take a chance and hope to be found, they wouldn't have anyone at tryout sessions.

I'm not too sure, but I feel pretty safe in assuming that the organization as a whole isn't looking for advice. Things seem to be working pretty well and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Very true statement but you have your head in the sand if you think it hasnt gotten alot worse in the last 3 years. There is a kid who was a 3rd-4th line player at a team that was 7-18 last year, he had 9 goals last year, none of the goals were against a team with a winning record, he is going to be a junior, he is in the league....that should not happen....but it does. How it happens I dont know but it does and that is what gets everyone excited.

Oh, I don't disagree with you. I'm just sayin' that it is their show and it seems to be working. (for the most part) If it was really bad, nobody would care, right? As long as kids and parents are lining up to participate, and complain loudly when they don't make a team, then they will be successful and nothing that is suggested will be listened to by the folks in the league.

I also meant to mention this ealier: Sometimes a player will decide not to participate even though they are "top caliber" players, so just going by rosters doesn't mean they've missed someone. Why a player is picked that doesn't seem to fill the expectations of all of us experts is not something that I understand, nor do I care too as I may not like the answer.

The higher up the food-chain one goes, the harder it is to accept that choices are sometimes made for reasons that we aren't privy to. Just wait for juniors, college, etc..

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:05 pm**

Blue&Gold wrote:
flatontheice wrote:
Blue&Gold wrote:You know, if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints.

If they picked the teams without any tryouts, there would be complaints.

They do it with some picked and some from tryouts, and there are complaints.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Remember, this isn't MN Hockey, or the MN HSL, or anything other than what it is. If it didn't work, the best wouldn't be playing as they would stay away in droves. If some didn't want to take a chance and hope to be found, they wouldn't have anyone at tryout sessions.

I'm not too sure, but I feel pretty safe in assuming that the organization as a whole isn't looking for advice. Things seem to be working pretty well and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Very true statement but you have your head in the sand if you think it hasnt gotten alot worse in the last 3 years. There is a kid who was a 3rd-4th line player at a team that was 7-18 last year, he had 9 goals last year, none of the goals were against a team with a winning record, he is going to be a junior, he is in the league....that should not happen....but it does. How it happens I dont know but it does and that is what gets everyone excited.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. I'm just sayin' that it is their show and it seems to be working. (for the most part) If it was really bad, nobody would care, right? As long as kids and parents are lining up to participate, and complain loudly when they don't make a team, then they will be successful and nothing that is suggested will be listened to by the folks in the league.

I also meant to mention this ealier: Sometimes a player will decide not to participate even though they are "top caliber" players, so just going by rosters doesn't mean they've missed someone. Why a player is picked that doesn't seem to fill the expectations of all of us experts is not something that I understand, nor do I care too as I may not like the answer.

The higher up the food-chain one goes, the harder it is to accept that choices are sometimes made for reasons that we aren't privy to. Just wait for juniors, college, etc..

Well said but I hope that enough voices can be heard to get the league back to what is was originally intended to be.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:22 am**

flatontheice wrote:
Blue&Gold wrote:
flatontheice wrote: Very true statement but you have your head in the sand if you think it hasnt gotten alot worse in the last 3 years. There is a kid who was a 3rd-4th line player at a team that was 7-18 last year, he had 9 goals last year, none of the goals were against a team with a winning record, he is going to be a junior, he is in the league....that should not happen....but it does. How it happens I dont know but it does and that is what gets everyone excited.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. I'm just sayin' that it is their show and it seems to be working. (for the most part) If it was really bad, nobody would care, right? As long as kids and parents are lining up to participate, and complain loudly when they don't make a team, then they will be successful and nothing that is suggested will be listened to by the folks in the league.

I also meant to mention this ealier: Sometimes a player will decide not to participate even though they are "top caliber" players, so just going by rosters doesn't mean they've missed someone. Why a player is picked that doesn't seem to fill the expectations of all of us experts is not something that I understand, nor do I care too as I may not like the answer.

The higher up the food-chain one goes, the harder it is to accept that choices are sometimes made for reasons that we aren't privy to. Just wait for juniors, college, etc..
Well said but I hope that enough voices can be heard to get the league back to what is was originally intended to be.

I guess we need to keep it all in perspective, the real stars will always make it, the so called bubble players sometimes will and sometimes won't, it's really up to them to prove themselves. If they need to overcome bias and favoritism, that's what they need to do, if that's what they want badly enough.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:00 am**

Blue&Gold wrote:
flatontheice wrote:
Blue&Gold wrote:You know, if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints.

If they picked the teams without any tryouts, there would be complaints.

They do it with some picked and some from tryouts, and there are complaints.

Anybody see a pattern here?

Remember, this isn't MN Hockey, or the MN HSL, or anything other than what it is. If it didn't work, the best wouldn't be playing as they would stay away in droves. If some didn't want to take a chance and hope to be found, they wouldn't have anyone at tryout sessions.

I'm not too sure, but I feel pretty safe in assuming that the organization as a whole isn't looking for advice. Things seem to be working pretty well and I don't see that changing any time soon.
Very true statement but you have your head in the sand if you think it hasnt gotten alot worse in the last 3 years. There is a kid who was a 3rd-4th line player at a team that was 7-18 last year, he had 9 goals last year, none of the goals were against a team with a winning record, he is going to be a junior, he is in the league....that should not happen....but it does. How it happens I dont know but it does and that is what gets everyone excited.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. I'm just sayin' that it is their show and it seems to be working. (for the most part) If it was really bad, nobody would care, right? As long as kids and parents are lining up to participate, and complain loudly when they don't make a team, then they will be successful and nothing that is suggested will be listened to by the folks in the league.

I also meant to mention this ealier: Sometimes a player will decide not to participate even though they are "top caliber" players, so just going by rosters doesn't mean they've missed someone. Why a player is picked that doesn't seem to fill the expectations of all of us experts is not something that I understand, nor do I care too as I may not like the answer.

The higher up the food-chain one goes, the harder it is to accept that choices are sometimes made for reasons that we aren't privy to. Just wait for juniors, college, etc..

"You know if they had everyone tryout, there would be complaints."
Yeah people would complain, but not because it was unfair or predetermined (the problems people currently have with the league). Obviously people will whine when little Joey doesn't make Elite, but thats the same for any other hockey program ever. However, people aren't saying if there were no automatics that would solve all problems, but just having 50%+ of the actual team at the rink trying out wouldn't hurt the credibility.

"If it was really bad, nobody would care, right? As long as kids and parents are lining up to participate, and complain loudly when they don't make a team, then they will be successful"
You say that like the Elite league is some evil empire. People participate in the league because of the competition and the intense scouting done. Just because you have players by the balls doesn't mean you should twist them. I'm not saying the league is melting down as we know it, it is still easily the best fall hockey opportunity on this side of the Mississippi, I am saying that you make it sound like since we need the Elite league, they are going to do whatever the hell they want as long as checks still fly in to play and tryout. Real classy killer.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:13 am**

No, I'm saying that people want to be in the league, and are upset when they (or their little Jonny) don't make the team. Success, in this case, is that people want to be there, and it's being scouted heavily. If it wasn't working, folks wouldn't be on here complaining.

As long as it's considered the top option, why should they listen to everyone on here? They have some people that work together to do what they feel is right. If we don't agree, don't offer up your check for tryouts. It's pretty simple, really. Yeah, money talks because if there wasn't money being spent, they would change the model.

"Fair" is a very misused word in the English language. What is "fair"? I'm not going to get into some deep discussion here, but the bottom line is if you don't agree with how it's done and they don't change it to please you, then go somewhere else. Harsh, but true.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:14 pm**

Any players elect to not participate or tryout that had a resemble shot, most likely due to Fall sports , travel, expense, ect…
Make there team section stronger?
Just missed?

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