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How I would seed it if the season ended today.



1. ER
2. Andover
3. East
4. GR
5. Flake
6. Cloquet

Slammer wrote:How I would seed it if the season ended today.



1. ER
2. Andover
3. East
4. GR
5. Flake
6. Cloquet

Still not sure how Andover can be seeded above DE. This is more than just my bias. Their section record is 2-3 compared to Easts 5-2 record (which will probably be 6-2 after tomorrow). They also lost to East head to head. Yes, they have been good as of late and maybe this would deserve a little more consideration if they beat Blaine on the 11th. But, they already have more losses than DE and play a way softer schedule playing the Armstrong's, Osseo's and Coon Rapids of the world. They are clearly not #2.

1. ER
2. DE
3. And/GR
4. GR/And
5. Flake
6. CEC

Houndhockey wrote:

Slammer wrote:How I would seed it if the season ended today.



1. ER
2. Andover
3. East
4. GR
5. Flake
6. Cloquet

Still not sure how Andover can be seeded above DE. This is more than just my bias. Their section record is 2-3 compared to Easts 5-2 record (which will probably be 6-2 after tomorrow). They also lost to East head to head. Yes, they have been good as of late and maybe this would deserve a little more consideration if they beat Blaine on the 11th. But, they already have more losses than DE and play a way softer schedule playing the Armstrong's, Osseo's and Coon Rapids of the world. They are clearly not #2.

1. ER
2. DE
3. And/GR
4. GR/And
5. Flake
6. CEC

to be fair I don't think you can use section recored when comparing Andover when they don't get to play Cloquet a second time, STMA, and Cambridge. You give them those 3 games they will most likely be at 5-3 in the section which looks a lot better than 2-3.

After oldtimer's quality post, I think a decent case has been made for giving each of the top four the top seed. This is without a doubt the craziest section I've ever seen.

curtiscurve makes a valid point about how coaches see other teams; back in 2006, when this section was similarly jumbled between DE, CEC, GR, and ER, I recall Dave Esse saying he thought GR should have been the top seed since they'd looked good in beating his Jacks twice, whereas CEC had split with East. Problem was, East whipped GR and won the second meeting with CEC, so they still wound up with the top seed.

Using that logic, the CEC and Cambridge coaches might stick East lower...but, at the same time, the coaches from Flake, GR, and probably Andover might see East as the best team in the section. We could go on and on for days trying to imagine how they'd look at things...and we haven't even gotten to other motives yet. If I were the coach of another team in this section, I'd love to force East to play CEC in the first round, knowing the history between those two. Might be an easy way to get one of the four clear contenders out of the way.

For now, I'm sticking to my guns: 1) ER; 2) DE; 3) Andover; 4) GR. GR's win over Hermantown was nice and if they really have turned a corner, they're as dangerous as anyone, but at the end of the day, you still have to own your body of work. Elky is as shaky as it gets as a 1-seed right now, but they still have talent, they still have a bunch of big wins, and they're not playing terribly in these recent losses.

If East loses one of its last two before the meeting or Andover beats Blaine, I'd be fine with seeing them flipped, but I just don't see the case for Andover being ahead of East right now. Tangible head-to-head still take precedent over speculative cases on how much a team has improved over the course of a season.

If Elk River loses to Centennial tomorrow and one of those things happens, just stick each team's name on a piece of paper and draw them out of a hat.

green4 wrote:

Houndhockey wrote:

Slammer wrote:How I would seed it if the season ended today.



1. ER
2. Andover
3. East
4. GR
5. Flake
6. Cloquet

Still not sure how Andover can be seeded above DE. This is more than just my bias. Their section record is 2-3 compared to Easts 5-2 record (which will probably be 6-2 after tomorrow). They also lost to East head to head. Yes, they have been good as of late and maybe this would deserve a little more consideration if they beat Blaine on the 11th. But, they already have more losses than DE and play a way softer schedule playing the Armstrong's, Osseo's and Coon Rapids of the world. They are clearly not #2.

1. ER
2. DE
3. And/GR
4. GR/And
5. Flake
6. CEC

to be fair I don't think you can use section recored when comparing Andover when they don't get to play Cloquet a second time, STMA, and Cambridge. You give them those 3 games they will most likely be at 5-3 in the section which looks a lot better than 2-3.

I'll give you that, but even still then they wouldn't match DE's section record. Still on top of that, the overall body of work still doesn't match up even if you give them a couple more section wins.

After looking at the Andover schedule, I am not sure why there is this belief they deserve a top 3 seed. They split with Elk River, beat CEC and lost to East and Forest Lake. The schedule is not that strong. When you play Coon Rapids, Champlin Park, Armstrong and Osseo each twice (and even lose one of those games), you can't expect a ticker-tape parade for a 17 win season. They are on a nice run and could pull an upset and make it to St. Paul, but don't crown them based on their recent surge.

The hardest of the seeds is #3 and #4. Andover and Rapids are the teams batttling. I don't think it really makes much difference whether a team draws Forest Lake or Cloquet. Rapids is playing better but a win over Hermantown, a team that has lost to Wayzata, White Bear, and Eagan does not move them up in the seedings or solidify #3. If Rapids puts up some big numbers (score and shots) on Denfeld I might be inclined to drink some of that orange kool-aid. They could win the section since every one of the top 6 teams except for Andover is not as good as they were last year. Hunter Shepherd could be the difference. If all the "favorites" win their sections, Section 7 winner would be a 6 or 7 seed, with only Section 8 below them.

Curtiscurve & houndhockey - no one is saying its time to crown Andover, far from it. However, they are on a roll right now, playing their best hockey of the season while East, Elkies and GR are inconsistent to say the least. Ask anyone which path they would prefer to be on with sections looming, an upward curve like Andover is on or an up/down curve like East and the Elkies are on. Based on currrent level of play, there is no doubt Andover deserves to be in the top 3, even if they lose to Blaine on Tuesday.

Intersectional play is one way to look at things, but look at common opponents with East. East beat CEC 3-2 and lost 2-1, Andover beat CEC 7-0. East struggled to beat LS 6-5, Andover beat LS 9-1. East beat Flake 6-1, Andover lost 4-3 in OT. East tied Maple Grove 2-2, Andover beat MG twice 3-2 & 3-1. East lost 5-2 to Blaine, Andover lost 5-3. East beat Hopkins 5-2, Andover beat them 7-3. East lost to Centennial 3-2, Andover split a pair of games with them. East lost 3-2 to Elk River, Andover split a pair of games with them. East beat Anoka 5-1, Andover beat Anoka 4-3. Does this show a big discrepancy between East and Andover? And lets not forget, East beat Andover 3-1, a game in which Andover had 4 regulars out with illness/injury from what I've been told.

It's time to get real and stop drinking the hateraide, there is no dominant team in section 7... you all need to get out of the past and look at this year and face the facts. Based on recent play, Andover is right there with East and the Elks. Last time I looked, Randolph does not lace up the skates and take shifts with his team. It still comes down to the kids. Hot goalies and best team defense will prove to be decisive and right now, I like Andover's chances. Between a hot goalie and close to 20 blocked shots a game would lead me to believe they are very capable.

John McClain wrote:Curtiscurve & houndhockey - no one is saying its time to crown Andover, far from it. However, they are on a roll right now, playing their best hockey of the season while East, Elkies and GR are inconsistent to say the least. Ask anyone which path they would prefer to be on with sections looming, an upward curve like Andover is on or an up/down curve like East and the Elkies are on. Based on currrent level of play, there is no doubt Andover deserves to be in the top 3, even if they lose to Blaine on Tuesday.

Intersectional play is one way to look at things, but look at common opponents with East. East beat CEC 3-2 and lost 2-1, Andover beat CEC 7-0. East struggled to beat LS 6-5, Andover beat LS 9-1. East beat Flake 6-1, Andover lost 4-3 in OT. East tied Maple Grove 2-2, Andover beat MG twice 3-2 & 3-1. East lost 5-2 to Blaine, Andover lost 5-3. East beat Hopkins 5-2, Andover beat them 7-3. East lost to Centennial 3-2, Andover split a pair of games with them. East lost 3-2 to Elk River, Andover split a pair of games with them. East beat Anoka 5-1, Andover beat Anoka 4-3. Does this show a big discrepancy between East and Andover? And lets not forget, East beat Andover 3-1, a game in which Andover had 4 regulars out with illness/injury from what I've been told.

It's time to get real and stop drinking the hateraide, there is no dominant team in section 7... you all need to get out of the past and look at this year and face the facts. Based on recent play, Andover is right there with East and the Elks. Last time I looked, Randolph does not lace up the skates and take shifts with his team. It still comes down to the kids. Hot goalies and best team defense will prove to be decisive and right now, I like Andover's chances. Between a hot goalie and close to 20 blocked shots a game would lead me to believe they are very capable.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not hating on Andover. It probably came off that way, but I do not mean to do so. I think Andover is playing their best hockey right now and that is a good thing for them. All I am saying is the coaches do not look that deep into the intersectional play as you layed it out. I have been in the room at these seeding meetings and I can tell you the coaches put a big emphasis on head to head, section record and the eye test. The reality is that the teams Andover are beating do not have a vote for 7AA seeding. It happens often where teams have a great record vs non-sectional opponents and are ranked higher in the state pools but are not seeded in the top 2 or 3 based on their sectional play. Let's face it, Andover is going to have 1 less win than the other 3 teams without playing teams like Edina, Eden Prairie, Lakeville North, Hill-Murray, Breck, Hermantown and Warroad. I do not have a dog in the fight, but I do know how the seeding process works and, unfortunately for Andover, the process does not favor them.

curtiscurve wrote:

John McClain wrote:Curtiscurve & houndhockey - no one is saying its time to crown Andover, far from it. However, they are on a roll right now, playing their best hockey of the season while East, Elkies and GR are inconsistent to say the least. Ask anyone which path they would prefer to be on with sections looming, an upward curve like Andover is on or an up/down curve like East and the Elkies are on. Based on currrent level of play, there is no doubt Andover deserves to be in the top 3, even if they lose to Blaine on Tuesday.

Intersectional play is one way to look at things, but look at common opponents with East. East beat CEC 3-2 and lost 2-1, Andover beat CEC 7-0. East struggled to beat LS 6-5, Andover beat LS 9-1. East beat Flake 6-1, Andover lost 4-3 in OT. East tied Maple Grove 2-2, Andover beat MG twice 3-2 & 3-1. East lost 5-2 to Blaine, Andover lost 5-3. East beat Hopkins 5-2, Andover beat them 7-3. East lost to Centennial 3-2, Andover split a pair of games with them. East lost 3-2 to Elk River, Andover split a pair of games with them. East beat Anoka 5-1, Andover beat Anoka 4-3. Does this show a big discrepancy between East and Andover? And lets not forget, East beat Andover 3-1, a game in which Andover had 4 regulars out with illness/injury from what I've been told.

It's time to get real and stop drinking the hateraide, there is no dominant team in section 7... you all need to get out of the past and look at this year and face the facts. Based on recent play, Andover is right there with East and the Elks. Last time I looked, Randolph does not lace up the skates and take shifts with his team. It still comes down to the kids. Hot goalies and best team defense will prove to be decisive and right now, I like Andover's chances. Between a hot goalie and close to 20 blocked shots a game would lead me to believe they are very capable.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not hating on Andover. It probably came off that way, but I do not mean to do so. I think Andover is playing their best hockey right now and that is a good thing for them. All I am saying is the coaches do not look that deep into the intersectional play as you layed it out. I have been in the room at these seeding meetings and I can tell you the coaches put a big emphasis on head to head, section record and the eye test. The reality is that the teams Andover are beating do not have a vote for 7AA seeding. It happens often where teams have a great record vs non-sectional opponents and are ranked higher in the state pools but are not seeded in the top 2 or 3 based on their sectional play. Let's face it, Andover is going to have 1 less win than the other 3 teams without playing teams like Edina, Eden Prairie, Lakeville North, Hill-Murray, Breck, Hermantown and Warroad. I do not have a dog in the fight, but I do know how the seeding process works and, unfortunately for Andover, the process does not favor them.

Well said. I've got to believe the coaches look at your record in section play and how you competed and that is what dictates the seeding more than anything. There's no way they are going put a team with a 2W - 3L section record into the #1 seed yet alone the top three.

It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Or "if" Cambridge popped one in OT or if they would have held on to a 2-0 lead with 2 minutes left.

Or "if" Connor LaRoque hadn't taken that 5:00 minute major.

Or "if" Quinn Mischke had been healthy all year.

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Yes, they could have easily done that.

Lee

Frequent_MN_Flyer wrote:

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Or "if" Cambridge popped one in OT or if they would have held on to a 2-0 lead with 2 minutes left.

Or "if" Connor LaRoque hadn't taken that 5:00 minute major.

Or "if" Quinn Mischke had been healthy all year.

Or "if" the Grand Rapids Petersons decided to show up during the east game and play like a team.

Slammer wrote:

Frequent_MN_Flyer wrote:

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Or "if" Cambridge popped one in OT or if they would have held on to a 2-0 lead with 2 minutes left.

Or "if" Connor LaRoque hadn't taken that 5:00 minute major.

Or "if" Quinn Mischke had been healthy all year.

Or "if" the Grand Rapids Petersons decided to show up during the east game and play like a team.

This is going downhill fast

Everyone is getting playoff fever right now. Next Wednesday around 7pm can't come soon enough.

Back on topic...... The reason I think East will be seeded 3rd is because the coaches would absolutely love for East to be matched up with Cloquet in the quarterfinals... And Andover is surging while east has lost two in a row and barely beat South... But who knows, East could wind up having the first seed. It's definitely going to be interesting.

Slammer wrote:Back on topic...... The reason I think East will be seeded 3rd is because the coaches would absolutely love for East to be matched up with Cloquet in the quarterfinals... And Andover is surging while east has lost two in a row and barely beat South... But who knows, East could wind up having the first seed. It's definitely going to be interesting.

If East plays CEC in the quarterfinals it should be at Amsoil Arena. No way there is enough seating at Heritage. That is a game I would love to attend if I could.

TheHockeyDJ wrote:

Slammer wrote:Back on topic...... The reason I think East will be seeded 3rd is because the coaches would absolutely love for East to be matched up with Cloquet in the quarterfinals... And Andover is surging while east has lost two in a row and barely beat South... But who knows, East could wind up having the first seed. It's definitely going to be interesting.

If East plays CEC in the quarterfinals it should be at Amsoil Arena. No way there is enough seating at Heritage. That is a game I would love to attend if I could.

Agreed. But I don't think it will be as close as it was last time...... Randolph will have them ready.

Slammer wrote:

TheHockeyDJ wrote:

Slammer wrote:Back on topic...... The reason I think East will be seeded 3rd is because the coaches would absolutely love for East to be matched up with Cloquet in the quarterfinals... And Andover is surging while east has lost two in a row and barely beat South... But who knows, East could wind up having the first seed. It's definitely going to be interesting.

If East plays CEC in the quarterfinals it should be at Amsoil Arena. No way there is enough seating at Heritage. That is a game I would love to attend if I could.

Agreed. But I don't think it will be as close as it was last time...... Randolph will have them ready.

As will Esse.

Frequent_MN_Flyer wrote:

Slammer wrote:

TheHockeyDJ wrote: If East plays CEC in the quarterfinals it should be at Amsoil Arena. No way there is enough seating at Heritage. That is a game I would love to attend if I could.

Agreed. But I don't think it will be as close as it was last time...... Randolph will have them ready.

As will Esse.

Agreed.

east hockey wrote:

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Yes, they could have easily done that.

Lee

Lee, I see that your hashtag says you live in Proctor. Is that true?

Froggy Richards wrote:

east hockey wrote:

Slammer wrote:It's weird to think if East just popped in a goal during OT yesterday, everybody would be saying they deserve number one.

Yes, they could have easily done that.

Lee

Lee, I see that your hashtag says you live in Proctor. Is that true?

Yep.

Lee

John McClain wrote:Curtiscurve & houndhockey - no one is saying its time to crown Andover, far from it. However, they are on a roll right now, playing their best hockey of the season while East, Elkies and GR are inconsistent to say the least. Ask anyone which path they would prefer to be on with sections looming, an upward curve like Andover is on or an up/down curve like East and the Elkies are on. Based on currrent level of play, there is no doubt Andover deserves to be in the top 3, even if they lose to Blaine on Tuesday.

Intersectional play is one way to look at things, but look at common opponents with East. East beat CEC 3-2 and lost 2-1, Andover beat CEC 7-0. East struggled to beat LS 6-5, Andover beat LS 9-1. East beat Flake 6-1, Andover lost 4-3 in OT. East tied Maple Grove 2-2, Andover beat MG twice 3-2 & 3-1. East lost 5-2 to Blaine, Andover lost 5-3. East beat Hopkins 5-2, Andover beat them 7-3. East lost to Centennial 3-2, Andover split a pair of games with them. East lost 3-2 to Elk River, Andover split a pair of games with them. East beat Anoka 5-1, Andover beat Anoka 4-3. Does this show a big discrepancy between East and Andover? And lets not forget, East beat Andover 3-1, a game in which Andover had 4 regulars out with illness/injury from what I've been told.

It's time to get real and stop drinking the hateraide, there is no dominant team in section 7... you all need to get out of the past and look at this year and face the facts. Based on recent play, Andover is right there with East and the Elks. Last time I looked, Randolph does not lace up the skates and take shifts with his team. It still comes down to the kids. Hot goalies and best team defense will prove to be decisive and right now, I like Andover's chances. Between a hot goalie and close to 20 blocked shots a game would lead me to believe they are very capable.

Definitely no hate towards Andover. Just an honest take on a whole body of work. I don't think anyone, including myself as a proclaimed East fan has said anything to the effect that East or Elk River are clear favorites to win the section, or that they dominant like last year. Pretty much every post has mentioned how close the section is this year. I don't worry about scores against common opponents, wins and losses sure, but scores on a given night are very deceiving. What you failed to mention in your post is that while it is a whole body of work that the coaches seed based off of, they also take into effect the section record which again Easts is clearly better. Andover is easily playing the best of any 7AA team right now, but that doesn't mean they deserve to be seeded higher than East or Elk River. Like I said when I ranked them, I'm not even completely sold on ranking them over GR. Too many factors like I mentioned above make them at best #3 in the section. That being said, I like their chances pretty much as good as anyone in the top four to make it to St Paul.

Alright well it's officially seeding week! Who's got the best campaign?