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See you there 59, ill be somewhere behind the Htown bench to get a good look at the boys. I think Cakescout is coming too.

WestMetro wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:07 am See you there 59, ill be somewhere behind the Htown bench to get a good look at the boys. I think Cakescout is coming too.

Happy Days

muckandgrinder65 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:17 pm "Yes, Andover is the favorite but them coming out of 7AA is far from a given. It's been said how much they rely on their D for offense. That makes it a little more unpredictable."

Just wondering what is a typical % of goals scored by D vs F?

According to MN Hockey Hub: Randover's D has scored 20 out of 110 goals which is about 18%

According to MN Hockey Hub: Rapids D have scored 18 out of 56 goals or about 32%-
Rapids is relying on their D even more than Randover for scoring, so they are probably just as unpredictable.....

I don't think it's the # or % of goals scored, it's an overall reliance on the D to create scoring opportunities for a team, especially in highly competitive games where the intensity is dialed up. Andover may have enough depth up front to be successful this year.

WestMetro wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:04 am Agree with Spar and Edgeless. This is the Spuds year.

They will beat LV in first round , WBL in semis , and go on to win by 1 behind hot Hodges in the final.

Heading over to see Spars Pios against Biondi and Pierce today

You mean WBL will FINALLY win a quarterfinal game!

Right! And Spuds will win a title game! All in same tourney. Sun will set in the east that night.

WestMetro wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:24 pm Right! And Spuds will win a title game! All in same tourney. Sun will set in the east that night.

The sun sure seems to be setting ON East hockey this year, so a combo of WBL Quarter win and Spuds Championship makes sense.

Lee

MWS coach wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:36 am Here's an even better thought,

With some growth in "northern" programs how about two mostly northern/central sections?

Those mentioned on first post:
Cloquet
DE
Rapids
Bemidji
Moorhead
Roseau
Brainerd
Marshall
Rock Ridge?
Hermantown?

Add
St. Cloud
SCC

Growth from
EGF
Alexandria
Warroad
and some more co ops and could be a reality. Not saying any of the above programs should be going AA, but with some growth and put in a section against teams they already play is this a possibility?

Northern suburban teams don't want to be in "your" section and want to play against rivals they play in youth....

Just a thought....

This makes sense to me. Problem is people from programs that opt up and dont get to state start playing the victim and cry foul. They eventually get the program to move to class A. Sad to me is that few of those people look the opposite direction when their team is doing good. They dont take a second to look at their achievements in class A and realize that they could do similar things for the most part in class AA, and in the long term their relative success would be very similar.
It is not a long leap at all for section 8AA to be all outstate teams. There are definitely 4 programs up north who could do it and if you add in the St. Cloud area the possibilities almost double. I am less familiar with section 7, but I assume it could be done. Just takes some programs to have an honest look at themselves.

mn should use a 3 class system

LSQRANK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:28 am mn should use a 3 class system

No.

LSQRANK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:28 am mn should use a 3 class system

Looking at the disparity in numbers, resources, talent, player movement, logistics, and success across the state of hockey, that is a logical conclusion. The demographics of hockey have greatly changed in the last decade with a polarization between the haves and have nots. Reorganizing into more competitive classes would strengthen competition at all levels and allow for more growth and development.

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm

LSQRANK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:28 am mn should use a 3 class system

Looking at the disparity in numbers, resources, talent, player movement, logistics, and success across the state of hockey, that is a logical conclusion. The demographics of hockey have greatly changed in the last decade with a polarization between the haves and have nots. Reorganizing into more competitive classes would strengthen competition at all levels and allow for more growth and development.

Because somehow the teams in class A cannot play teams in class AA ever?? I'm kinda lost on this one.
Generally teams across the state are playing schedules which conform to the competitive levels of their program regardless of which post season they compete in. Park Rapids does not play Moorhead, Duluth East does not play Sauke Centre though if Park Rapids had a heckuva boon, or they just plain wanted to up their competition they could schedule higher caliber teams, this is the beauty of it imo.

defense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm

LSQRANK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:28 am mn should use a 3 class system

Looking at the disparity in numbers, resources, talent, player movement, logistics, and success across the state of hockey, that is a logical conclusion. The demographics of hockey have greatly changed in the last decade with a polarization between the haves and have nots. Reorganizing into more competitive classes would strengthen competition at all levels and allow for more growth and development.

Because somehow the teams in class A cannot play teams in class AA ever?? I'm kinda lost on this one.
Generally teams across the state are playing schedules which conform to the competitive levels of their program regardless of which post season they compete in. Park Rapids does not play Moorhead, Duluth East does not play Sauke Centre though if Park Rapids had a heckuva boon, or they just plain wanted to up their competition they could schedule higher caliber teams, this is the beauty of it imo.

Not sure how you got that at all. What I am saying is that the current class system is watered down too far. Generally, there is just one or two teams truly capable of winning their section. There are just a handful of teams that are good enough to win state. As has been discussed in other threads, it is the same big fish in each class dominating their sections and the state year after year in both class A (Hermantown, SCC, EGF, Mahtamedi, etc.) and AA (Eden Prairie, Lakeville, East, Edina, etc.). And if it isn't one of them it, it is almost always another Big Fish program. The ability gap between the top few teams and the bottom half of each class is very large and not good for the game. A number of the issues discussed on this board are the result (both directly and indirectly) of this gap. I believe a 3 class system can address (reduce) some of these issues while promoting growth, development and competition. The most noticeable changes would be at playoff time.

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:25 pm

defense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm


Looking at the disparity in numbers, resources, talent, player movement, logistics, and success across the state of hockey, that is a logical conclusion. The demographics of hockey have greatly changed in the last decade with a polarization between the haves and have nots. Reorganizing into more competitive classes would strengthen competition at all levels and allow for more growth and development.

Because somehow the teams in class A cannot play teams in class AA ever?? I'm kinda lost on this one.
Generally teams across the state are playing schedules which conform to the competitive levels of their program regardless of which post season they compete in. Park Rapids does not play Moorhead, Duluth East does not play Sauke Centre though if Park Rapids had a heckuva boon, or they just plain wanted to up their competition they could schedule higher caliber teams, this is the beauty of it imo.

Not sure how you got that at all. What I am saying is that the current class system is watered down too far. Generally, there is just one or two teams truly capable of winning their section. There are just a handful of teams that are good enough to win state. As has been discussed in other threads, it is the same big fish in each class dominating their sections and the state year after year in both class A (Hermantown, SCC, EGF, Mahtamedi, etc.) and AA (Eden Prairie, Lakeville, East, Edina, etc.). And if it isn't one of them it, it is almost always another Big Fish program. The ability gap between the top few teams and the bottom half of each class is very large and not good for the game. A number of the issues discussed on this board are the result (both directly and indirectly) of this gap. I believe a 3 class system can address (reduce) some of these issues while promoting growth, development and competition. The most noticeable changes would be at playoff time.

I understand the concern, I get the point. But I do not believe it is a correct answer. Adding another class, to me waters it down even more. Essentially your idea is to give all the kids a chance of playing in a tournament bigger than sections at the end of the year, at what point does that section championship really mean nothing? And then what does a state championship mean? If everyone wins a championship, what does that championship mean? I also dont think that a big ticket program always wins. I think programs develop into championship caliber, then drop out, then someone else comes in. Hermantown is only the latest and they certainly weren't always there. Warroad at one point was THE team in class A, last 10 years?? No. In single class? No. East Grand certainly wasnt a perpetual title chaser ever. Breck? Benilde? I guess my question is, what guidelines are used to designate a program into the group of the "haves" and "have nots"? Becuase nearly every " has" has been a "has not" before and likely will be again.
I guess one place my mind goes when talking about another class, or a team moving to class A from AA, or a team moving to AA is looking at a few teams and their organizations. Brainerd is a nice example. Never been to a state tournament, I think they are big enough to not be an opt up team. Has never winning a section title hurt their program?? I think their program is very healthy. Fergus Falls, went to 7 class A tournaments in a row 15 years ago.. their program is horribly lacking numbers and lately success throughout the levels. Alexandria, went to tier 2, Class AA and Class A tourneys, not a perennial section champ, no state titles. Program is great. Bemidji didnt go to state since the 80s, no state titles. Program is fine and dandy. Crookston?? Not sure on the health of the program, but pretty sure they arent going anywhere. Success in the post season really is not a huge factor for these programs.

defense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:18 pm

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:25 pm

defense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:01 pm

I understand the concern, I get the point. But I do not believe it is a correct answer. Adding another class, to me waters it down even more.

Actually, a third division does the opposite...We have 149 teams now....best way to split would be 6 teams/sec in top 2 divisions...this gives you 2 divisions with 48 teams and the lowest with 53 teams...all this does is eliminate the 7&8 seeds..the top two seeds get a quarter round bye, with each section having 2 quarterfinals,2 semi's and a final...I would bet the top division would be the same at state ,but, the other 2 divisions would produce EXTREMELY competitive games in the quarterfinals and semifinals at state...

nu2hockey wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:08 pm

defense wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:18 pm

Goose21 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:25 pm

I understand the concern, I get the point. But I do not believe it is a correct answer. Adding another class, to me waters it down even more.

Actually, a third division does the opposite...We have 149 teams now....best way to split would be 6 teams/sec in top 2 divisions...this gives you 2 divisions with 48 teams and the lowest with 53 teams...all this does is eliminate the 7&8 seeds..the top two seeds get a quarter round bye, with each section having 2 quarterfinals,2 semi's and a final...I would bet the top division would be the same at state ,but, the other 2 divisions would produce EXTREMELY competitive games in the quarterfinals and semifinals at state...

Ummm...so
..how ya gonna do that split?? If by enrollment, and everyone goes where they are put, your going to have three " haves " winning championships instead of 2. If somehow by success, great, but it failed before so..
Kinda confused here.
Now by enrollment, not every school will stay put, many will opt up... but history shows that most will return to the lowest level that they can. Then what? I will actually argue that the disparity in talent for that third class would be worse than anything that is here now, definitely no better. Heck you very likely would be looking at a 10 year defending state champion at that last level. Let's get realistic please.