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kniven wrote:Is there any truth to Duluth Marshall building dorms on campus. All their usual recruits going to Hermantown an East. I personally think they don’t have much future without dorms. They could then recruit hockey players from across the country.

And everybody knows that Hermantown hockey attracts talent at every level from across the 218. I wish CEC had this problem

I believe their dorms are only for International students. It will always be tough for Marshall. Parents can send their players to Hermantown for free and they roll out the red carpet for every one of them. Their program depends on it.

Jeffy95 wrote:

kniven wrote:Is there any truth to Duluth Marshall building dorms on campus. All their usual recruits going to Hermantown an East. I personally think they don’t have much future without dorms. They could then recruit hockey players from across the country.

And everybody knows that Hermantown hockey attracts talent at every level from across the 218. I wish CEC had this problem

I believe their dorms are only for International students. It will always be tough for Marshall. Parents can send their players to Hermantown for free and they roll out the red carpet for every one of them. Their program depends on it.

I think Jeffy wishes his program had that problem too. His non-stop whining makes that glaringly obvious.

It’s going to be very difficult for Duluth Marshall to compete going forward if they can’t effectively attract hockey talent consistently year to year. They’ve got smart hockey people at Marshall though. They’ll figure something out. Hermantown and Duluth East are absolutely the class of the 218 year to year. If they ever moved AA, Duluth East and Hermantown would completely dominate 7AA. And Elk River would exit. Marshall would then move back to A. Cloquet would have to decide if winning is important. Cause there won’t be any winning 7AA. Unless a chance to win 7AA every 10-15 years works. I m a fan no matter. I definitely prefer the Hawks playing A. And trust me......so does Duluth East and the rest of 7AA.

Jeffy95 wrote:

kniven wrote:Is there any truth to Duluth Marshall building dorms on campus. All their usual recruits going to Hermantown an East. I personally think they don’t have much future without dorms. They could then recruit hockey players from across the country.

And everybody knows that Hermantown hockey attracts talent at every level from across the 218. I wish CEC had this problem

I believe their dorms are only for International students. It will always be tough for Marshall. Parents can send their players to Hermantown for free and they roll out the red carpet for every one of them. Their program depends on it.

Yes, per Marshall’s International Program page, the school opened a 28 bed dorm in 2016, exclusively for international students.

I’m not sure why you are predicting so much doom and gloom for Marshall as an institution. The tuition is “relatively reasonable“ at just under $14,000 per year, which is less than half of the tuition of comparable Twin Cities independent schools like Breck, Blake, or SPA. I realize that Duluth is a different market, but Marshall is the only private school of its type in northern Minnesota and draws from a wide area around the city. The school has a lengthy history, and I have never heard of it having financial difficulties. Competing at the AA level in hockey will always be a difficult proposition given the tiny enrollment, but they seem to be doing fine so far.

Hermhawkey wrote:

Jeffy95 wrote:

kniven wrote:Is there any truth to Duluth Marshall building dorms on campus. All their usual recruits going to Hermantown an East. I personally think they don’t have much future without dorms. They could then recruit hockey players from across the country.

And everybody knows that Hermantown hockey attracts talent at every level from across the 218. I wish CEC had this problem

I believe their dorms are only for International students. It will always be tough for Marshall. Parents can send their players to Hermantown for free and they roll out the red carpet for every one of them. Their program depends on it.

I think Jeffy wishes his program had that problem too. His non-stop whining makes that glaringly obvious.

Teams that opt up to AA are #'s 2,6,7,11, and 15 in Karl's latest rankings. And don't forget GR just had a fantastic 2 year run. With so many teams having success opting up to AA, why can't a suburban Duluth school that gets plenty of transfers and open-enrollees do the same?

Hermantown bantams are #5, Pee Wees are #1, and Squirts are #3, all in AA. That's going to be another 6-7 Class A titles, at least. How many will they need before they feel AA is "where they belong"?

Call it "whining" all you want, but these are just facts.

rainier2 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:

Jeffy95 wrote: I believe their dorms are only for International students. It will always be tough for Marshall. Parents can send their players to Hermantown for free and they roll out the red carpet for every one of them. Their program depends on it.

I think Jeffy wishes his program had that problem too. His non-stop whining makes that glaringly obvious.

Teams that opt up to AA are #'s 2,6,7,11, and 15 in Karl's latest rankings. And don't forget GR just had a fantastic 2 year run. With so many teams having success opting up to AA, why can't a suburban Duluth school that gets plenty of transfers and open-enrollees do the same?

Hermantown bantams are #5, Pee Wees are #1, and Squirts are #3, all in AA. That's going to be another 6-7 Class A titles, at least. How many will they need before they feel AA is "where they belong"?

Call it "whining" all you want, but these are just facts.

Oh, it's definitely whining....We are exactly where we should be right now. That said...I would expect an opt up will be forth coming. And then, as KNIVEN said Marshall will go back to A...

keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

Hermhawkey wrote:

rainier2 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote: I think Jeffy wishes his program had that problem too. His non-stop whining makes that glaringly obvious.

Teams that opt up to AA are #'s 2,6,7,11, and 15 in Karl's latest rankings. And don't forget GR just had a fantastic 2 year run. With so many teams having success opting up to AA, why can't a suburban Duluth school that gets plenty of transfers and open-enrollees do the same?

Hermantown bantams are #5, Pee Wees are #1, and Squirts are #3, all in AA. That's going to be another 6-7 Class A titles, at least. How many will they need before they feel AA is "where they belong"?

Call it "whining" all you want, but these are just facts.

Oh, it's definitely whining....We are exactly where we should be right now. That said...I would expect an opt up will be forth coming. And then, as KNIVEN said Marshall will go back to A...

That will be interesting to see what Marshall does if Hermantown moves up. I'm a little more optimistic about their chances of staying and doing well in AA. I didn't think many people though they'd be a #2 seed in 7AA, which they may very well be this year.

All it takes is a group of kids that would usually go to East and Hermantown to decide they'd rather play a ton as freshmen and sophomores for Marshall. I think this is even more likely once the automatic trip to state no longer exists for a AA Hermantown program. All it took was 3 kids choosing Marshall over Hermantown and now those two teams are dead-even.

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

But you get a ton of open enrollees and transfers, so Hermantown's effective enrollment is AA for sure. Take away all the players over the last few years that didn't live in the Hermantown school district or were transfers and your team would be a very good A team, not a dominant one.

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

There is no number where teams “have to opt up.” AA is [roughly] the top 64 schools plus opt ups. Mahtomedi has been around high 60s to lower 70s for over a decade.

Also, please identify the schools who’ve opted up that are anywhere near AA enrollment...

HShockeywatcher wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

There is no number where teams “have to opt up.” AA is [roughly] the top 64 schools plus opt ups. Mahtomedi has been around high 60s to lower 70s for over a decade.

Also, please identify the schools who’ve opted up that are anywhere near AA enrollment...

Bemidji, CEC over 1100.
Grand Rapids around 950.
Roseau only real small school.
Private schools are another matter.

Mahtomedi is nearly the same size as Bemidji, a couple of dozen smaller at
1140 or so.

elliott70 wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

There is no number where teams “have to opt up.” AA is [roughly] the top 64 schools plus opt ups. Mahtomedi has been around high 60s to lower 70s for over a decade.

Also, please identify the schools who’ve opted up that are anywhere near AA enrollment...

Bemidji, CEC over 1100.
Grand Rapids around 950.
Roseau only real small school.
Private schools are another matter.

Mahtomedi is nearly the same size as Bemidji, a couple of dozen smaller at
1140 or so.

Hermantown and Hill-Murray both have enrollments of 629 students. Both of them pull talent from a AA-sized population center. The metro area certainly has more people, but H-M competes with many more schools for that talent than Hermantown does. Hermantown allows open-enrollment, which makes the population in the actual school district a moot point.

I really don't see much of a difference between the two.

rainier2 wrote:

elliott70 wrote:

HShockeywatcher wrote:There is no number where teams “have to opt up.” AA is [roughly] the top 64 schools plus opt ups. Mahtomedi has been around high 60s to lower 70s for over a decade.

Also, please identify the schools who’ve opted up that are anywhere near AA enrollment...

Bemidji, CEC over 1100.
Grand Rapids around 950.
Roseau only real small school.
Private schools are another matter.

Mahtomedi is nearly the same size as Bemidji, a couple of dozen smaller at
1140 or so.

Hermantown and Hill-Murray both have enrollments of 629 students. Both of them pull talent from a AA-sized population center. The metro area certainly has more people, but H-M competes with many more schools for that talent than Hermantown does. Hermantown allows open-enrollment, which makes the population in the actual school district a moot point.

I really don't see much of a difference between the two.

Hill has always drawn athletes to their school -AA is a good fit for them.
STA should be AA, nearly 1000 boys in their school.
Cretin opt up I believe but over 1100 so that makes sense.
Now Blake opting up?. Not sure I don't know much about them other than that have been a solid A program for along time.
Breck not opting up?? Not sure about them. - nice school, nice rink.

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

Your Pee Wee AA team is ranked #1, Bantam AA is top 10 & you’re trying to STILL RATIONALIZE playing HS Single a. It’s called having no GUTS. As someone who grew up in the Twin Ports area...”shameful” is the only term to describe it...end of story!

hockey59 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

Your Pee Wee AA team is ranked #1, Bantam AA is top 10 & you’re trying to STILL RATIONALIZE playing HS Single a. It’s called having no GUTS. As someone who grew up in the Twin Ports area...”shameful” is the only term to describe it...end of story!

See Roseau...

elliott70 wrote:

rainier2 wrote:

elliott70 wrote: Bemidji, CEC over 1100.
Grand Rapids around 950.
Roseau only real small school.
Private schools are another matter.

Mahtomedi is nearly the same size as Bemidji, a couple of dozen smaller at
1140 or so.

Hermantown and Hill-Murray both have enrollments of 629 students. Both of them pull talent from a AA-sized population center. The metro area certainly has more people, but H-M competes with many more schools for that talent than Hermantown does. Hermantown allows open-enrollment, which makes the population in the actual school district a moot point.

I really don't see much of a difference between the two.

Hill has always drawn athletes to their school -AA is a good fit for them.
STA should be AA, nearly 1000 boys in their school.
Cretin opt up I believe but over 1100 so that makes sense.
Now Blake opting up?. Not sure I don't know much about them other than that have been a solid A program for along time.
Breck not opting up?? Not sure about them. - nice school, nice rink.

I guess I just don't see actual enrollment as being a complete way to judge a program's fit in A or AA. A school could only have 30 students, but if those 30 students happen to all be D1 prospects from the surrounding area, then they should probably be in AA.

Hermantown's actual enrollment has become meaningless, just as it has for metro private schools. Once your pulling in surrounding talent, your effectively adding the enrollment of those surrounding areas to your own.

That's why any claim of Hermantown doing amazing things with such a small enrollment is misleading.

elliott70 wrote:

rainier2 wrote:

elliott70 wrote: Bemidji, CEC over 1100.
Grand Rapids around 950.
Roseau only real small school.
Private schools are another matter.

Mahtomedi is nearly the same size as Bemidji, a couple of dozen smaller at
1140 or so.

Hermantown and Hill-Murray both have enrollments of 629 students. Both of them pull talent from a AA-sized population center. The metro area certainly has more people, but H-M competes with many more schools for that talent than Hermantown does. Hermantown allows open-enrollment, which makes the population in the actual school district a moot point.

I really don't see much of a difference between the two.

Hill has always drawn athletes to their school -AA is a good fit for them.
STA should be AA, nearly 1000 boys in their school.
Cretin opt up I believe but over 1100 so that makes sense.
Now Blake opting up?. Not sure I don't know much about them other than that have been a solid A program for along time.
Breck not opting up?? Not sure about them. - nice school, nice rink.

STA has just under 500 high school students, it’s doubled on the enrollment page. Use that how you like.

https://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments17.asp?sort=2
Henry Sibley, in Class A, is the 64th biggest school.
Bemidji 67th
Cretin 70th
Mahtomedi 71st
Saint Thomas 81st

I’m not sure how much the others contribute, but combined enrollment of Cloquet, Esko, and Carlton high schools is 1,127 which would put them at 72nd.

Honestly, I don’t know how everything works, since both Minneapolis, St Paul, and Robbinsdale schools are included in these lists.

rainier2 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:

rainier2 wrote: Teams that opt up to AA are #'s 2,6,7,11, and 15 in Karl's latest rankings. And don't forget GR just had a fantastic 2 year run. With so many teams having success opting up to AA, why can't a suburban Duluth school that gets plenty of transfers and open-enrollees do the same?

Hermantown bantams are #5, Pee Wees are #1, and Squirts are #3, all in AA. That's going to be another 6-7 Class A titles, at least. How many will they need before they feel AA is "where they belong"?

Call it "whining" all you want, but these are just facts.

Oh, it's definitely whining....We are exactly where we should be right now. That said...I would expect an opt up will be forth coming. And then, as KNIVEN said Marshall will go back to A...

That will be interesting to see what Marshall does if Hermantown moves up. I'm a little more optimistic about their chances of staying and doing well in AA. I didn't think many people though they'd be a #2 seed in 7AA, which they may very well be this year.

All it takes is a group of kids that would usually go to East and Hermantown to decide they'd rather play a ton as freshmen and sophomores for Marshall. I think this is even more likely once the automatic trip to state no longer exists for a AA Hermantown program. All it took was 3 kids choosing Marshall over Hermantown and now those two teams are dead-even.

Excellent points ranier....

alcloseshaver wrote:

hockey59 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

Your Pee Wee AA team is ranked #1, Bantam AA is top 10 & you’re trying to STILL RATIONALIZE playing HS Single a. It’s called having no GUTS. As someone who grew up in the Twin Ports area...”shameful” is the only term to describe it...end of story!

See Roseau...

How is that working for Roseau? They would hardly break top ten in A. They have been irrelevant in AA hockey for as long as I can remember.

hockey59 wrote:

Hermhawkey wrote:keep in mind...most the schools that "opt" up are very near AA size. Heck even Mahtomedi is within 50 kids of having to opt up. We are barely half AA size. And yes, that is even WITH open enrollment.

Your Pee Wee AA team is ranked #1, Bantam AA is top 10 & you’re trying to STILL RATIONALIZE playing HS Single a. It’s called having no GUTS. As someone who grew up in the Twin Ports area...”shameful” is the only term to describe it...end of story!

Yes, this. They're all a bunch of wussies in that town. Every one of them. Classless and no guts. That's what they're teaching all of the kids that transfer in for Hockey!

Hermhawkey wrote:

alcloseshaver wrote:

hockey59 wrote: Your Pee Wee AA team is ranked #1, Bantam AA is top 10 & you’re trying to STILL RATIONALIZE playing HS Single a. It’s called having no GUTS. As someone who grew up in the Twin Ports area...”shameful” is the only term to describe it...end of story!

See Roseau...

How is that working for Roseau? They would hardly break top ten in A. They have been irrelevant in AA hockey for as long as I can remember.

Are you 6 years old? Roseau won a title about 10 years ago and had a fine showing at state 4-5 years ago with Yon and Strand.

There's that Hermantown "If were not guaranteed of being top 3 in AA every year then we're not opting up" mentality on display again.

Only in Hermantown can you beat the eventual AA champs two years in a row and still think you don't belong in AA.

Roseau was relevant when they had Ness.

Hermantown needed ot to beat Luverne in 2017. HT is an slso ran in AA.

goldy313 wrote:Roseau was relevant when they had Ness.

Hermantown needed ot to beat Luverne in 2017. HT is an slso ran in AA.

A team that beat the eventual AA champs the last two years would be an also ran in AA?

I hope your post was sarcasm.

.

Wow! I respect Hermantown Hockey machine. “Build it and they will come”. All those kids from around 218 come to play there because it is a great program. I call that a success.