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Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:07 am**

rainier wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:How's that working for 0-5 Marshall and their AA move? They lose to unranked single A team Proctor?! All while taking kids from all around the northland to include Wisconsin?
Hermantown has beaten Marshall how many times in a row now? 12? 13? And Marshall thinks AA is where they belong, but Hermantown doesn't.

You know those other teams that think they belong in AA so they opt up despite single A enrollment numbers? Hermantown is 20-4-1 against those teams since 2009. Think about that. These are teams that are willing to accept not being a single A powerhouse so they can challenge themselves against the best. You think your team shouldn't be doing the same.

To answer your first question..."why do they compete in AA for bantams?"
Answer: To best prepare for the best single A competition. The top 4 single A HS programs will always be tough to be regardless of class. The only way to prepare is play AA. It's not rocket science. We still have only won once.

Answer to your second question...What Marshall does is their business. But because they are a private..and bring kids from in and out of state...to include tonight's 1 of 2 (Stauber former Hermantown) goal scorers...I have a hard time feeling bad for their 0-5 start.
Sorry. We actual Hermantown parents are very happy in our program. It's a formula that is working

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:15 am**

Wet Paint wrote:

As the old saying goes, Rome was not built in a day. [/quote]

This about sums it up for Hermantown also.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:15 am**

Hermhawkey wrote:How's that working for 0-5 Marshall and their AA move? They lose to unranked single A team Proctor?! All while taking kids from all around the northland to include Wisconsin?

I think they deserve even more credit for that. They moved up knowing they had their weakest team in years. All with an eye on the future. I assume by your name that you are a Hermantown fan. They have plenty of northland kids in their program that aren't from Hermantown too. Kind of the way the game is now.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:54 am**

Jeffy95 wrote:
Hermhawkey wrote:How's that working for 0-5 Marshall and their AA move? They lose to unranked single A team Proctor?! All while taking kids from all around the northland to include Wisconsin?
I think they deserve even more credit for that. They moved up knowing they had their weakest team in years. All with an eye on the future. I assume by your name that you are a Hermantown fan. They have plenty of northland kids in their program that aren't from Hermantown too. Kind of the way the game is now.

I absolutely give Marshall credit. That doesn't mean it will work out for them from a hockey standpoint. I am friends with many Marshall parents. They chose for their kids to go there. Great school! Arguably the best in town academically. Hermantown is also a great school. As far as a hockey decision…That will remain to be seen. I wish them all the best. Do what is best for your kid!!

Hermantown has a lot of pride. That will keep plenty of talent here for the future. I am not worried about losing all of our talent. I think having 5 kids in the program with current or former UMD coach parents in the program speaks volumes for what our program offers.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:50 am**

rainier wrote:
pekyman wrote:
rainier wrote: What's your agenda, Peky? Why are you always slow-playing your Hawks with self-deprecating statements like "We can't compete in AA" or "Wayzata will wear us down and win in the 3rd". Why do you fight so hard to get people to think your team isn't that good?

The teams that played STA would smoke this current team? I don't believe that for a second. You may have been senior heavy last year, but not in talent, as Kero and Pionk were the only "Elite" seniors. This year, you have seven Elite league players, three more Elite Prep players, and a goalie that was All-State last year.

2014 was the weakest Hermantown team I've seen in a looong time, and they still made the title game!

And I disagree that "the pond has been lowered in 7A". Hibbing has its best team in a decade at least, Greenway is having a great resurgence, Denfeld is consistently putting out solid teams, and Virginia and Eveleth have some excellent young players on varsity or about to hit varsity soon. Even North Shore and Proctor are improved. 7A is improving as a whole, no doubt about it.

And how would you know how good 7A is anyway? Your average Hawk player plays 200 games over four years of AA Pee Wees and Bantams, and they will be lucky to play a total of 5 games versus teams from 7A. And the Hermantown varsity plays a whopping six games versus 7A teams this year, so how would they be able to tell if 7A team were better or worse?

I know this is the part where you get really angry and tell me to go improve my own "lame-a$$" program, but I just want you to admit one thing: You would rather dominate in single A than be one of 10-15 excellent AA programs.

From the ages of 12-18, the only time your players will play more than 2 Class A teams in a row is in the Class A playoffs. You call that being a Class A team?
Haha, did Hibbing get there summer program going this year?

Last years team had Kero, Pionk, Koepke, Aamont, Sandelin, Jacques, Valure, Baker and Samberg at the end of the year. Also Olson in nets. Also 3 additional good senior F and 2 good senior D. The only new elite player ls sophomore Watkins. Last years team was deeper. Your numbers are wrong.
Which of my numbers is wrong? Half of the players you mention were sophomores last season, not exactly impact players, and their stats prove it. They all make a big jump this season, which makes it a better overall team, not to mention Aamodt, Koepke, Gotz, and Olson are all seniors now, better than they were last year.

I love how you bend over backwards to try to convince people your team isn't that good or that 7A isn't that good. You were ranked #1 all season last year, Marshall was top 5, Denfeld was top 10, and Hibbing was top 15 last year.

Yeah , 7A isn't that good...compared to 7AA.

Why do you keep saying the Hawks aren't good? Isn't sandbagging in real life enough?.Do you have to sandbag on the forum too?

First of all l am far from “bending over backwards” to convince anyone that the Hawks are not good and I have never said that the Hawks “aren’t good”. You’re putting words in my mouth. I also never called your program “lame-a$$”. What I did say is that Hermantown has been able to maintain its program and stay consistent better that many in general and 7A specifically, and that your bloviating that this is some “dream team” is a bit of hot air. Hermantown has had some good teams in this last 6 year run of 2nd place titles. That’s right, SECOND place. Comparing this team to the teams of the last 6 years, I would place this team in 3rd or 4th place. The 2013 team that lost to STA in the OT heartbreaker was a senior heavy team with elite talent at both F and D. I think last year’s teams and this year’s teams are both great teams, but if they could play, my money would be on the 2105 team. I think the 2013 team would beat both 2015 and 2016. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to have it. Seeing that you have so much free time and such a great interest in the Hawks, why don’t you document the 2010 – 2016 Hermantown teams and list the F & D and Year of each player and we can have a nice debate; on second thought, not interested.

For Hermantown to win state this year they are going to have to beat another A team that can compete with the best of AA. Mahtomedi, Breck, EGF, TRF are not going to roll over and hand the Hawks the trophy this year. You have no faith in your team, but I think Hibbing, in spite of your constant whining that its’ not fair for them to have to play Hermantown, can give them a game. You say you want to play the best, but all you really want to do is get the best out of your way, so Hibbing has a better chance of getting to the tournament that you seem to have so little respect for anyway. Conversely, I bet that the teams of Mahtomedi, Breck, EGF, etc. are dying for a chance to give hand Hermantown its 7th second place trophy.

As far as sandbagging, I have not done that on this forum and certainly not in my “real life”. Nice insult. From my view you are the one that is the sandbagger. You sit on here with all the time in the world writing stupid poetry and novels disrespecting the integrity of Hermantown and its hockey program. You imply that the only reason that the team is good is because it’s next to the thriving metro area of Duluth. Well hockey is bigger than 7A my friend. Mahtomedi is a school twice the size of Hermantown, a bigger hockey program and a metro area 10 times the size of Duluth. Breck is an excellent private school with a Hockey program that has WON STATE TWICE. Mahtomedi beat both STA and Hill last year. Funny thing is, last year I sat with some Hibbing parents in St. Paul and they were very dissatisfied with specifically what the Hibbing hockey team does in the off-season, which was pretty much nothing. They talked about how Hibbing got “manhandled” in its game with Hermantown. Remember EGF coach wanting his team to play a “MANS” game? That’s what you need to do, even in class A, to be successful at the highest level. Hermantown has an excellent year around hockey program and culture. Hockey season is just one part of it. Come to Hermantown and you will find that the players are busy with skating, dryland, weights, etc. 12 month of the year. It is an expectation; if you don’t do it, you have zero chance of ever making it past JV. Hermantown creates great hockey players it doesn’t import them. Your community could do the same with more work and less complaining.

I’m done with you as you really know nothing of Hermantown or its Hockey program. Maybe someday the powers that be will move Hermantown to 2A, maybe it will not; I have no idea. What I do know is that HAWK pride runs deep in the community and all sports and nothing you say will tarnish that. I’m done with this topic.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:53 am**

After reading the latest quotes from the outspoken Hermantown coach and having my doubts as to their veracity, I decided to use the latest in lie detection technology to see if Plante is indeed telling the truth when it comes to his team not opting up. I took his quotes and ran them through the Truth-O-Tron 6000 supercomputer to see if they hold up to factual scrutiny. When reading the Truth-O-Tron’s answers, use a robot voice in your head, it’s more accurate that way.

Plante: (In response to those who call for them to opt-up.) “I don’t listen to that,” he says

Truth-O-Tron 6000: Boop. Beep This is true, Plante obviously doesn’t listen to calls to opt up, for if he did he would be deaf by now.

Plante: “I just don’t believe we can compete at that level every year,”

Truth-O-Tron 6000: False. Hermantown has a 40-14-3 record vs AA teams and a 15-4-1 record vs 7AA teams since 2009. They have beaten Wayzata, and have two one goal losses to Eden Prairie, and are 20-4-1 vs the other teams that opt up to AA over this time period. The analysis is clear, Hermantown can compete at AA every year. Beep-boop!

Plante: “Here’s your choice: Do you want to be an average double-A team and have a better team once in a while or do you want to be one of the better single-A teams every year? And that’s what I choose.”

Truth-O-Tron 6000: Beep! While it is true that this is what he chooses, his claims that his teams two options are to be an average AA team or one of the better A teams is a false choice.

Analysis shows that Hermantown’s PageStat and USHHSO rankings for the last decade-which take into account all teams A and AA-have been 21, 8, 14, 20, 17, 14, 47, 9, 18, 4. After tossing out the statistical anomaly of their one bad season, they have an average ranking of 12.7. Factoring in that almost every year at least one A team is ranked above them, their ranking in AA would be much closer to 11, and logical analysis says that if you are the #11 team in AA on average, then you are far better than an “average double A team” whose ranking would be closer to #40. Buzz! Beep!

Boop!. Analysis of the claim that Hermantown is “one of the better single A teams every year” shows this to be false. Hermantown’s has been to 7 Class A title games over the past decade, therefore the only accurate way to describe them is as one of the best teams in A every year. Analysis indicates Plante is purposely underestimating his team in order to deflect attention from his team dominating at the Class A level.

Plante: “As soon as you get good and you have a good team, everyone wants you to go to double-A,” the coach said. “It’s not just us; it’s every other team that’s good. East Grand Forks is getting the same thing. Well, what do we want all the good teams in double-A and all the (bad) teams in single-A? I don’t know if I agree with that, either.”

Truth-O-Tron 6000: Buzz! Whirrr! Extreme falsehood alarm! Extreme falsehood alarm! No opt-up calls for top ten A team such as St. Cloud Apollo, TRF, Mahtomedi, Luverne, Delano, and SPA have been detected. Only a couple calls for EGF to opt-up have been detected, but analysis of those calls indicate they were made by dim individuals unable to distinguish between a program that has had two great classes come through and a program that has been dominant for well over a decade.

Beep! I compute the ratio of calls for Hermantown to opt-up vs calls for other teams to opt-up to be 100:1 at a minimum.

And if Plante is concerned that Class A will wind up with just the bad teams, then he should be actively campaigning for teams with Class A enrollments such as STA and BSM to get back into Class A as soon as possible to bolster the quality of teams. He should not be concerned that these teams get players from large metro areas, because his own Hawks allow open enrollment in a metro area of over 150,000 people, and furthermore..Buzz! Beep! Boop-boop-boop!
End of data analysis.

At this point I had to shut the machine down as it was smoking and about to crash from being overloaded with false statements. For Plante’s next interview, I will make sure to upgrade to the Truth-O-Tron 7000 so that it can handle both the extreme volume and stark egregiousness of the false claims that are sure to be made as Hermantown continues dominance over AA teams this season.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:16 pm**

pekyman wrote:
rainier wrote:
pekyman wrote: Haha, did Hibbing get there summer program going this year?

Last years team had Kero, Pionk, Koepke, Aamont, Sandelin, Jacques, Valure, Baker and Samberg at the end of the year. Also Olson in nets. Also 3 additional good senior F and 2 good senior D. The only new elite player ls sophomore Watkins. Last years team was deeper. Your numbers are wrong.
Which of my numbers is wrong? Half of the players you mention were sophomores last season, not exactly impact players, and their stats prove it. They all make a big jump this season, which makes it a better overall team, not to mention Aamodt, Koepke, Gotz, and Olson are all seniors now, better than they were last year.

I love how you bend over backwards to try to convince people your team isn't that good or that 7A isn't that good. You were ranked #1 all season last year, Marshall was top 5, Denfeld was top 10, and Hibbing was top 15 last year.

Yeah , 7A isn't that good...compared to 7AA.

Why do you keep saying the Hawks aren't good? Isn't sandbagging in real life enough?.Do you have to sandbag on the forum too?
First of all l am far from “bending over backwards” to convince anyone that the Hawks are not good and I have never said that the Hawks “aren’t good”. You’re putting words in my mouth. I also never called your program “lame-a$$”. What I did say is that Hermantown has been able to maintain its program and stay consistent better that many in general and 7A specifically, and that your bloviating that this is some “dream team” is a bit of hot air. Hermantown has had some good teams in this last 6 year run of 2nd place titles. That’s right, SECOND place. Comparing this team to the teams of the last 6 years, I would place this team in 3rd or 4th place. The 2013 team that lost to STA in the OT heartbreaker was a senior heavy team with elite talent at both F and D. I think last year’s teams and this year’s teams are both great teams, but if they could play, my money would be on the 2105 team. I think the 2013 team would beat both 2015 and 2016. That is MY opinion and I am entitled to have it. Seeing that you have so much free time and such a great interest in the Hawks, why don’t you document the 2010 – 2016 Hermantown teams and list the F & D and Year of each player and we can have a nice debate; on second thought, not interested.

For Hermantown to win state this year they are going to have to beat another A team that can compete with the best of AA. Mahtomedi, Breck, EGF, TRF are not going to roll over and hand the Hawks the trophy this year. You have no faith in your team, but I think Hibbing, in spite of your constant whining that its’ not fair for them to have to play Hermantown, can give them a game. You say you want to play the best, but all you really want to do is get the best out of your way, so Hibbing has a better chance of getting to the tournament that you seem to have so little respect for anyway. Conversely, I bet that the teams of Mahtomedi, Breck, EGF, etc. are dying for a chance to give hand Hermantown its 7th second place trophy.

As far as sandbagging, I have not done that on this forum and certainly not in my “real life”. Nice insult. From my view you are the one that is the sandbagger. You sit on here with all the time in the world writing stupid poetry and novels disrespecting the integrity of Hermantown and its hockey program. You imply that the only reason that the team is good is because it’s next to the thriving metro area of Duluth. Well hockey is bigger than 7A my friend. Mahtomedi is a school twice the size of Hermantown, a bigger hockey program and a metro area 10 times the size of Duluth. Breck is an excellent private school with a Hockey program that has WON STATE TWICE. Mahtomedi beat both STA and Hill last year. Funny thing is, last year I sat with some Hibbing parents in St. Paul and they were very dissatisfied with specifically what the Hibbing hockey team does in the off-season, which was pretty much nothing. They talked about how Hibbing got “manhandled” in its game with Hermantown. Remember EGF coach wanting his team to play a “MANS” game? That’s what you need to do, even in class A, to be successful at the highest level. Hermantown has an excellent year around hockey program and culture. Hockey season is just one part of it. Come to Hermantown and you will find that the players are busy with skating, dryland, weights, etc. 12 month of the year. It is an expectation; if you don’t do it, you have zero chance of ever making it past JV. Hermantown creates great hockey players it doesn’t import them. Your community could do the same with more work and less complaining.

I’m done with you as you really know nothing of Hermantown or its Hockey program. Maybe someday the powers that be will move Hermantown to 2A, maybe it will not; I have no idea. What I do know is that HAWK pride runs deep in the community and all sports and nothing you say will tarnish that. I’m done with this topic.

Peky, you insult my team, Proctor, Denfeld, Greenway and other teams not as good as yours. I don't insult Hermantown, I just provide facts that you do not like. What facts do you provide that your team shouldn't be in AA?

All you Hermantown guys do when presented with stats and facts about your team being able to compete well in AA is start talking about how you built a great program and how you all work so hard. We get it, we all acknowledge that you have an excellent program, but that isn't the point.

The point is that you can compete just fine in AA, but yet choose to kick butt in A instead. You routinely destroy the other teams that opt up to AA and compete well with the Wayzatas and Eden Prairies of the world.

You guys and Plante complained about STA, and I was with you, but now that the microscope is on you and the same complaints are being made, somehow it's okay for your team to stay in A, despite taking open enrollment kids from a major metro area. You can't have it both ways.

I like your team. I have always enjoyed rooting for them and I agree you have a great program. I'm not ripping on your team, I am pointing out the obviousness that they should be playing in AA.

We have differing opinions, and that's okay.

Posted: **Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:18 pm**

I still think Hermantown should move up to AA given the quality of their program. The biggest thing to me is trying to find an answer to the question of why don't they want their kids to get a good hard challenge? I get that they play a few decent AA teams most years so you could say that they do get them there. But how much good do you do your program or theirs when you play Northshore, Proctor (most years), and etc? I, like most people, would like to see some of those teams you have had taking on EP, Edina, BSM, Hill and etc because it would be one hell of a hockey game. I can only imagine how the parents must feel to spend hockey money to have their kids play hockey at Hermantown and know that most games they don't even really need a goalie in the net because they are going to score more points than the other team is going to get shots. High school sports are supposed to challenge kids and to make them better in all aspects of their lives. Beating up on weaklings on a hockey arena sort of seems to be counter to that. Personally, I could care less about Hermantown, if I want to see a good hard hockey game I can go a short distance to watch East, Rapids, etc play. Even go watch something like Marshall and Denfeld for a nice balanced game. But it would be a lot of fun to go to the Hermantown arena and watch EP or etc come to town and play the Hawks. I am surprised your parents let that program stay A given what it must cost to bring a kid up thorugh youth there and through high school there only to watch them clean house on the Proctors of the world and then lose in the last game of the year.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:37 am**

Wet Paint wrote:I still think Hermantown should move up to AA given the quality of their program. The biggest thing to me is trying to find an answer to the question of why don't they want their kids to get a good hard challenge? I get that they play a few decent AA teams most years so you could say that they do get them there. But how much good do you do your program or theirs when you play Northshore, Proctor (most years), and etc? I, like most people, would like to see some of those teams you have had taking on EP, Edina, BSM, Hill and etc because it would be one hell of a hockey game. I can only imagine how the parents must feel to spend hockey money to have their kids play hockey at Hermantown and know that most games they don't even really need a goalie in the net because they are going to score more points than the other team is going to get shots. High school sports are supposed to challenge kids and to make them better in all aspects of their lives. Beating up on weaklings on a hockey arena sort of seems to be counter to that. Personally, I could care less about Hermantown, if I want to see a good hard hockey game I can go a short distance to watch East, Rapids, etc play. Even go watch something like Marshall and Denfeld for a nice balanced game. But it would be a lot of fun to go to the Hermantown arena and watch EP or etc come to town and play the Hawks. I am surprised your parents let that program stay A given what it must cost to bring a kid up thorugh youth there and through high school there only to watch them clean house on the Proctors of the world and then lose in the last game of the year.

Don't snooze on the Rails this year. Miracle on ice Part 2 in Hermantown in January???? I'd feel better if it was in Proctor. Maybe the compressors will accidentally shut off at Hermantown Arena. I know a guy.......

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:40 am**

Wet Paint wrote:I still think Hermantown should move up to AA given the quality of their program. The biggest thing to me is trying to find an answer to the question of why don't they want their kids to get a good hard challenge? I get that they play a few decent AA teams most years so you could say that they do get them there. But how much good do you do your program or theirs when you play Northshore, Proctor (most years), and etc? I, like most people, would like to see some of those teams you have had taking on EP, Edina, BSM, Hill and etc because it would be one hell of a hockey game. I can only imagine how the parents must feel to spend hockey money to have their kids play hockey at Hermantown and know that most games they don't even really need a goalie in the net because they are going to score more points than the other team is going to get shots. High school sports are supposed to challenge kids and to make them better in all aspects of their lives. Beating up on weaklings on a hockey arena sort of seems to be counter to that. Personally, I could care less about Hermantown, if I want to see a good hard hockey game I can go a short distance to watch East, Rapids, etc play. Even go watch something like Marshall and Denfeld for a nice balanced game. But it would be a lot of fun to go to the Hermantown arena and watch EP or etc come to town and play the Hawks. I am surprised your parents let that program stay A given what it must cost to bring a kid up thorugh youth there and through high school there only to watch them clean house on the Proctors of the world and then lose in the last game of the year.

Hermantown moving to AA is easy to do

They are A now...AA teams dont schedule them for a game
and soon enough they will say we arent getting any better and they WILL want to challenge themselves do you think Plante will want to be the Luverne of the North?

Ego will play into it

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:32 am**

All this chatter about Hermantown. Finally this is the year, all the stars align. Compete and beat the best at AA drop down a class for state and overwhelm the competition. No longer a bridesmaid. Then the real AA talk begins. But wait....what's going on at Breck? Are these guys for real? Don't they know it's our year? Just stop with the AA talk until they run off a couple chips at A. All those St. Thomas teams. EGF c'mon. Now Breck is back. I don't think anyone knows how good this team is, but I do think Plante and Co. are watching the scoreboard saying you have got to be kidding me. Let's sit back and enjoy it all unfold. Should be a fun ride.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:07 pm**

edgeless2 wrote:All this chatter about Hermantown. Finally this is the year, all the stars align. Compete and beat the best at AA drop down a class for state and overwhelm the competition. No longer a bridesmaid. Then the real AA talk begins. But wait....what's going on at Breck? Are these guys for real? Don't they know it's our year? Just stop with the AA talk until they run off a couple chips at A. All those St. Thomas teams. EGF c'mon. Now Breck is back. I don't think anyone knows how good this team is, but I do think Plante and Co. are watching the scoreboard saying you have got to be kidding me. Let's sit back and enjoy it all unfold. Should be a fun ride.

Isin't that the exact mindset that is the problem? The fact that there is one or two teams each year that is comparable in skill and they think "are you kidding me?" like they deserve the trophy each year.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:48 pm**

green4 wrote:
edgeless2 wrote:All this chatter about Hermantown. Finally this is the year, all the stars align. Compete and beat the best at AA drop down a class for state and overwhelm the competition. No longer a bridesmaid. Then the real AA talk begins. But wait....what's going on at Breck? Are these guys for real? Don't they know it's our year? Just stop with the AA talk until they run off a couple chips at A. All those St. Thomas teams. EGF c'mon. Now Breck is back. I don't think anyone knows how good this team is, but I do think Plante and Co. are watching the scoreboard saying you have got to be kidding me. Let's sit back and enjoy it all unfold. Should be a fun ride.
Isin't that the exact mindset that is the problem? The fact that there is one or two teams each year that is comparable in skill and they think "are you kidding me?" like they deserve the trophy each year.

Absolutely....I've heard them referred to as the Edina of the North minus the history and substance. Let em stay in A it's where they belong.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:05 pm**

edgeless2 wrote:
green4 wrote:
edgeless2 wrote:All this chatter about Hermantown. Finally this is the year, all the stars align. Compete and beat the best at AA drop down a class for state and overwhelm the competition. No longer a bridesmaid. Then the real AA talk begins. But wait....what's going on at Breck? Are these guys for real? Don't they know it's our year? Just stop with the AA talk until they run off a couple chips at A. All those St. Thomas teams. EGF c'mon. Now Breck is back. I don't think anyone knows how good this team is, but I do think Plante and Co. are watching the scoreboard saying you have got to be kidding me. Let's sit back and enjoy it all unfold. Should be a fun ride.
Isin't that the exact mindset that is the problem? The fact that there is one or two teams each year that is comparable in skill and they think "are you kidding me?" like they deserve the trophy each year.
Absolutely....I've heard them referred to as the Edina of the North minus the history and substance. Let em stay in A it's where they belong.

Not sure I get the comparison, and I'm not sure how you conclude they still belong in A when there is one rotating team that is equal to them each year.
But whatever, they can't seem to beat Hopkins so It doesn't really matter.

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