HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

kniven wrote:

rainier wrote:Good to see new coaches at Greenway and I-Falls, hopefully they will continue to improve their programs.

As far as 7A, I haven't seen much that would change any of my predictions from last March, except that Hermantown may be even better than I thought.

With 6 players on Team North and another 3 (Samberg, Valure, Olson) that are clearly Elite League-level players, the Hawks will be loaded. They did lose alot of scoring last year, but Jaques, Valure, Sandelin, and Samberg are all likely to make a huge step this season as juniors, and Watkins is as good as any sophomore in the state.

I see Hermantown having two excellent lines, three elite defenseman, and a proven top notch goalie. They should be heavy favorites to win the Class A title this season.

Hermantown will be the 7a favorite for eternity.

Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

east hockey wrote:

kniven wrote:

rainier wrote:Good to see new coaches at Greenway and I-Falls, hopefully they will continue to improve their programs.

As far as 7A, I haven't seen much that would change any of my predictions from last March, except that Hermantown may be even better than I thought.

With 6 players on Team North and another 3 (Samberg, Valure, Olson) that are clearly Elite League-level players, the Hawks will be loaded. They did lose alot of scoring last year, but Jaques, Valure, Sandelin, and Samberg are all likely to make a huge step this season as juniors, and Watkins is as good as any sophomore in the state.

I see Hermantown having two excellent lines, three elite defenseman, and a proven top notch goalie. They should be heavy favorites to win the Class A title this season.

Hermantown will be the 7a favorite for eternity.

Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

kniven wrote:

east hockey wrote:

kniven wrote: Hermantown will be the 7a favorite for eternity.

Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

Nor do I.

Lee

kniven wrote:

east hockey wrote:

kniven wrote: Hermantown will be the 7a favorite for eternity.

Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

Nope, Hermantown will continue to be the Joke of Minnesota High School Hockey for years to come.

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

east hockey wrote: Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

Nope, Hermantown will continue to be the Joke of Minnesota High School Hockey for years to come.

I think Hermantown hockey is far from being a joke. Their youth and high school are very impressive. They choose to play AA youth hockey and a regular season AA high school hockey schedule playing the best. Then play A high school hockey in the playoffs. It's their choice what they do. I might not agree, but they are far from a joke talent wise. I respect Hermantown hockey. It was great playing them home and away last year. But this year, we are back to 1 game with them. 7AA for Duluth Marshall now joins Duluth East and Grand Rapids with home and away games against CEC.

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

east hockey wrote: Or until they move up to 7AA. Any day now.

Lee

Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

Nope, Hermantown will continue to be the Joke of Minnesota High School Hockey for years to come.

I think Hermantown hockey is far from being a joke. Their youth and high school are very impressive. They choose to play AA youth hockey and a regular season AA high school hockey schedule playing the best. Then play A high school hockey in the playoffs. It's their choice what they do. I might not agree, but they are far from a joke talent wise. I respect Hermantown hockey. It was great playing them home and away last year. But this year, we are back to 1 game with them. 7AA for Duluth Marshall now joins Duluth East and Grand Rapids with home and away games against CEC.

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote: Na. I don't see them moving up any time soon. It would be fun, but I don't see it.

Nope, Hermantown will continue to be the Joke of Minnesota High School Hockey for years to come.

I think Hermantown hockey is far from being a joke. Their youth and high school are very impressive. They choose to play AA youth hockey and a regular season AA high school hockey schedule playing the best. Then play A high school hockey in the playoffs. It's their choice what they do. I might not agree, but they are far from a joke talent wise. I respect Hermantown hockey. It was great playing them home and away last year. But this year, we are back to 1 game with them. 7AA for Duluth Marshall now joins Duluth East and Grand Rapids with home and away games against CEC.

Certainly wasn't talking talent-wise. They lead the State in Elite League players and get some of the best players from all over the area. Six straight Championship games is probably unprecedented in any sport. The fact that they sandbag in A is what is a joke. Those kids deserve better than playing in one meaningful game in a season.

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: Nope, Hermantown will continue to be the Joke of Minnesota High School Hockey for years to come.

I think Hermantown hockey is far from being a joke. Their youth and high school are very impressive. They choose to play AA youth hockey and a regular season AA high school hockey schedule playing the best. Then play A high school hockey in the playoffs. It's their choice what they do. I might not agree, but they are far from a joke talent wise. I respect Hermantown hockey. It was great playing them home and away last year. But this year, we are back to 1 game with them. 7AA for Duluth Marshall now joins Duluth East and Grand Rapids with home and away games against CEC.

Certainly wasn't talking talent-wise. They lead the State in Elite League players and get some of the best players from all over the area. Six straight Championship games is probably unprecedented in any sport. The fact that they sandbag in A is what is a joke. Those kids deserve better than playing in one meaningful game in a season.

But they do play a AA regular season schedule. But the last 8 games of their seasons are always against A teams. It's what it is.

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote: I think Hermantown hockey is far from being a joke. Their youth and high school are very impressive. They choose to play AA youth hockey and a regular season AA high school hockey schedule playing the best. Then play A high school hockey in the playoffs. It's their choice what they do. I might not agree, but they are far from a joke talent wise. I respect Hermantown hockey. It was great playing them home and away last year. But this year, we are back to 1 game with them. 7AA for Duluth Marshall now joins Duluth East and Grand Rapids with home and away games against CEC.

Certainly wasn't talking talent-wise. They lead the State in Elite League players and get some of the best players from all over the area. Six straight Championship games is probably unprecedented in any sport. The fact that they sandbag in A is what is a joke. Those kids deserve better than playing in one meaningful game in a season.

But they do play a AA regular season schedule. But the last 8 games of their seasons are always against A teams. It's what it is.

That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: Certainly wasn't talking talent-wise. They lead the State in Elite League players and get some of the best players from all over the area. Six straight Championship games is probably unprecedented in any sport. The fact that they sandbag in A is what is a joke. Those kids deserve better than playing in one meaningful game in a season.

But they do play a AA regular season schedule. But the last 8 games of their seasons are always against A teams. It's what it is.

That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote: But they do play a AA regular season schedule. But the last 8 games of their seasons are always against A teams. It's what it is.

That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

I guess I'm trying to see it through their eyes, instead of mine. Their not breaking any laws. Would I like to see them and compete with them every year, yes I would. We play in 7AA to compete with the best. They are consistently one of the best. Playing them once a year isn't the same as it would be competing with them 2-3 times a year for a state appearance.

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

I guess I'm trying to see it through their eyes, instead of mine. Their not breaking any laws. Would I like to see them and compete with them every year, yes I would. We play in 7AA to compete with the best. They are consistently one of the best. Playing them once a year isn't the same as it would be competing with them 2-3 times a year for a state appearance.

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: That's true. Why haven't the Vikings thought of that? They could drop down to the CFL for the playoffs like the Hawks. Maybe they could finally get their Championship. Somebody get Coach Plante on the phone with Ziggy Wilf!

Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

I guess I'm trying to see it through their eyes, instead of mine. Their not breaking any laws. Would I like to see them and compete with them every year, yes I would. We play in 7AA to compete with the best. They are consistently one of the best. Playing them once a year isn't the same as it would be competing with them 2-3 times a year for a state appearance.

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote:

kniven wrote: Well, the Vikings aren't given a choice because that option isn't permitted in the NFL. In the MSHSL, you are permitted to have the option to compete with the large schools or the small schools in the state. Hermantown has chosen to compete against the big schools during the regular season, but only compete against the small schools in their section finals and state tournaments. Legal I might add.

You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

I guess I'm trying to see it through their eyes, instead of mine. Their not breaking any laws. Would I like to see them and compete with them every year, yes I would. We play in 7AA to compete with the best. They are consistently one of the best. Playing them once a year isn't the same as it would be competing with them 2-3 times a year for a state appearance.

Could you repeat that please. I didn't quite get it....

TTpuckster wrote:

kniven wrote:

Froggy Richards wrote: You got the Gist Knivsy, please don't pretend.....

I guess I'm trying to see it through their eyes, instead of mine. Their not breaking any laws. Would I like to see them and compete with them every year, yes I would. We play in 7AA to compete with the best. They are consistently one of the best. Playing them once a year isn't the same as it would be competing with them 2-3 times a year for a state appearance.

Could you repeat that please. I didn't quite get it....

Maybe...just maybe...a high school team who plays A (and in their defense they are not doing anything wrong)....but just maybe the youth teams should only be allowed to play what the high school does. You play A in high school your youth teams can only go as high as A.

Rocketwrister wrote:Maybe...just maybe...a high school team who plays A (and in their defense they are not doing anything wrong)....but just maybe the youth teams should only be allowed to play what the high school does. You play A in high school your youth teams can only go as high as A.

Would be impossible to enforce. Youth hockey and the MSHSL or separate entities. In life, if a person and/or business likes the results at the top, the business/person will keep doing the same way. If the results at the top are not liked by the business/person, under most circumstances, the person/business will try something different.

Hibbing could pose a good threat to the big dogs Hermantown this year if Hermantown doesn't come to play. They are a good young team who is on the rise. But this is still Hermantowns section and everyone knows that. Maybe in a year or two Hibbing will legitimately challenge them.

Had a conversation with a former great Greenway coach. His thoughts on the new Coach Clafton was that he is very sharp guy not only in hockey but in general. He's a disciplinarian, something Greenway needs badly. Greenway's first game with Mound-West Tonka will be very interesting. If Greenway can win that game against an average Metro team it will be a huge step forward. Greenway will have a new system and is a team that starts slowly. A win might be an indicator of a good season. The Greenway fans are anxious for the season, the first time in a long time that there is some optimism. Come February I hope I'll be watching a game at Amsoil.

greenway1969 wrote:Had a conversation with a former great Greenway coach. His thoughts on the new Coach Clafton was that he is very sharp guy not only in hockey but in general. He's a disciplinarian, something Greenway needs badly. Greenway's first game with Mound-West Tonka will be very interesting. If Greenway can win that game against an average Metro team it will be a huge step forward. Greenway will have a new system and is a team that starts slowly. A win might be an indicator of a good season. The Greenway fans are anxious for the season, the first time in a long time that there is some optimism. Come February I hope I'll be watching a game at Amsoil.

It's a shame that Greenway and Rapids could not reschedule the old rivalry this season. Would think that all of the kids from both programs would like to see at least one game a season. It used to be a packed house no matter which venue was hosting the game. Get'r done!!

Hibbing did lose the two brothers that transferred in last season, which is a tough blow to their defensive depth. I saw some of the Hibbing-SPA scrimmage the other day and it appears they have some youngsters that can fill in and do well, but it's hard to take too much away from a scrimmage.

So, I think the gap between Hibbing and Hermantown got larger and the gap between Hibbing and the rest of 7A got smaller. I still think they are a solid #2 seed, but Greenway, Proctor, and Virginia should all feel better about their chances.

Also, there is an interesting story in the Duluth News Tribune about school enrollments in the area. According to the story, 21% of Hermantown students are open enrollees, and while a few grades are closed, the others are still accepting open enrollees.

So, yes, Hermantown does accept open enrollment students from a metro area of 150,000 people. Does that sound like small town, single A hockey? I still don't see any teams from 7A on their pee wee or bantam AA schedules. In fact, not one Class A team is to be found on either of those schedules. I do see a whole lot of Edina, EP, Minnetonka, and Wayzata on those schedules though. I guess this is "where they belong"...until playoffs start when they're in high school, that is.

I don't understand all the "Hermantown must move to AA" angst. Is 6 straight trips to the state tourney finals impressive? Of course, but how many times have they won it all? Until they run off 3-4 championships in a short period of time, I think let them play where they want to. Should East Grand Forks move to AA because it's unfair they are so dominate with 2 straight titles? I would guess the EGF folks appreciate their titles that lead through a great Hermantown team much more than if Hermantown had moved out of A years ago.

I know, lets take the top A teams and force them to move up each year and bring weak AA teams down to A. Please stop the insanity. The "A" landscape is better off with quality teams in the class, like Hermantown, East Grand Forks, etc.

zooomx wrote:I don't understand all the "Hermantown must move to AA" angst. Is 6 straight trips to the state tourney finals impressive? Of course, but how many times have they won it all? Until they run off 3-4 championships in a short period of time, I think let them play where they want to. Should East Grand Forks move to AA because it's unfair they are so dominate with 2 straight titles? I would guess the EGF folks appreciate their titles that lead through a great Hermantown team much more than if Hermantown had moved out of A years ago.

I know, lets take the top A teams and force them to move up each year and bring weak AA teams down to A. Please stop the insanity. The "A" landscape is better off with quality teams in the class, like Hermantown, East Grand Forks, etc.

Truth be told, a promotion / relegation system in high school hockey would be AWESOME. Now, it would probably kill off a number of small town teams, but if the programs could exist in a bubble without such real-life risks, it would be a great system.

zooomx wrote:I don't understand all the "Hermantown must move to AA" angst. Is 6 straight trips to the state tourney finals impressive? Of course, but how many times have they won it all? Until they run off 3-4 championships in a short period of time, I think let them play where they want to. Should East Grand Forks move to AA because it's unfair they are so dominate with 2 straight titles? I would guess the EGF folks appreciate their titles that lead through a great Hermantown team much more than if Hermantown had moved out of A years ago.

I know, lets take the top A teams and force them to move up each year and bring weak AA teams down to A. Please stop the insanity. The "A" landscape is better off with quality teams in the class, like Hermantown, East Grand Forks, etc.

If a team plays in AA all through youth, plays a mostly AA high school schedule, and would be at least in the top 15 in AA every year, shouldn't they just be in AA? Especially if that team takes open enrollment students from a metro area of 150,000 people?

As for EGF, they had the group of a generation come through. They play A at the youth levels, a high school schedule that is nearly all A, and they will come back to earth the next few years. The two situations are completely different.