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I seem to remember the Fire playing in the Brooklyn Park thanksgiving tourny four or five years ago as well. So what would have happened to a D2 team that ran into them ?? Would you have to forfit because D2 said so ?? If so that sucks !

oholene wrote:Elliott,

Why is it not allowed? Is it a USA hockey rule? Is it a MN Hockey rule?

elliott70 wrote:

O-townClown wrote:Thanks for sharing. That is a peculiar rule. I wonder if it came into being after the formation of the Wisconsin Fire. There are no Tier I teams in close proximity to District 2, so what you're left with is the inability for a team to scrimmage a visiting group from 500 or more miles away.

I predict it is only a matter of time before you see some in-season AAU sanctioned hockey in Minnesota. There's nothing USA Hockey or the Minnesota District can do to stop it. I'm not predicting rampant league play, but the cost for a daily AAU sanction is nominal and could facilitate a weekend series where a District 2 team could face some kids from North Carolina or Colorado for three or four games.

This is not allowed.

I know Tier 1 AAA teams face Tier II teams form everywhere else all the time. So I know there is no USA Hockey rule that prevents THAT from happening. And I think AAU teams in MI find ways to facilitate games against USA Hockey member assocation teams in MI so I think this all has to be just MNH and/or MN Distirct rules.

observer wrote:

So your saying if FL hosts a squirt tourny we could invite Russell Stover/Mission/Yada Yada ??? How cool would that be ?? I know they would have to send 02's !!

Pretty sure it could be ok'd

Tier 1 AAA teams have appeared in D6 MN Youth Holiday Tournaments for years.

What Tier1 teams are you referring to? I think the out of state teams in last years Edina PeeWee tourney were Tier2 (not sure if the Edina PW tourney was a holiday tourney..but for sake of argument...).

JSR wrote:

oholene wrote:Elliott,

Why is it not allowed? Is it a USA hockey rule? Is it a MN Hockey rule?

elliott70 wrote: This is not allowed.

I know Tier 1 AAA teams face Tier II teams form everywhere else all the time. So I know there is no USA Hockey rule that prevents THAT from happening. And I think AAU teams in MI find ways to facilitate games against USA Hockey member assocation teams in MI so I think this all has to be just MNH and/or MN Distirct rules.

I was not speaking tier I II
Plying AAU or other is not allowed in season.

What Tier1 teams are you referring to?

Colorado Thunderbirds and more.

old goalie85 wrote:I seem to remember the Fire playing in the Brooklyn Park thanksgiving tourny four or five years ago as well. So what would have happened to a D2 team that ran into them ?? Would you have to forfit because D2 said so ?? If so that sucks !

WI Fire 97s played in the Edina Bantam tourney two seasons ago.

As for Shattuck, their Tier 1 team plays Bantam A teams all the time. Last year:
Date Time Opponent Location Result
2011-10-15 08:00 Wayzata Trojans A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 4 - 2
2011-10-27 Eden Prairie Eagles A n/a 5 - 2
2011-10-28 White Bear Lake Bears A n/a 6 - 1
2011-11-05 17:00 Duluth East A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 8 - 1
2011-11-06 09:00 Duluth East A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 10 - 0
2011-11-12 Elk River Elks A n/a 7 - 2
2011-12-03 16:00 Edina Hornets A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 6 - 4
2011-12-16 20:00 Edina Hornets A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 10 - 2
2012-01-18 Eden Prairie Eagles A n/a 6 - 1
2012-01-25 19:50 Centennial Cougars A Centennial Sports Arena 8 - 0
2012-01-28 16:30 Wayzata Trojans A Plymouth Ice Center 8 - 3
2012-02-04 Sibley Warriors A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 7 - 1
2012-02-05 12:00 Sibley Warriors A Shattuck-St Mary's Ice Arena 5 - 1

When we moved to Colorado I heard that there was a possibility my son's team might be playing in Blaine. I now know that's not going to happen but there will be at least 12 of the 15 top ranked Tier 1 AAA Teams at the Super Rink in February.

http://www.superseriesaaa.com/page/show ... series-cup

Rusty Blades wrote:When we moved to Colorado I heard that there was a possibility my son's team might be playing in Blaine. I now know that's not going to happen but there will be at least 12 of the 15 top ranked Tier 1 AAA Teams at the Super Rink in February.

http://www.superseriesaaa.com/page/show ... series-cup

Yet another hockey tournament held in MN that will not be represented with a MN Team.

Mark Elliott:

Please walk me through how you can stop a parent from taking a group of kids to play AAU games during the season. I don't see how you can stop it.

As I see it there are 5 levels of regulation.

USA Hockey
District
Affiliate
District (within Minnesota)
Local Program/Association

USA Hockey will not stop this from happening. Doing so would bring their status as the NGP into question. As much as they want to regulate all hockey, they can't. NCAA and MSHSL hockey are some examples of hockey that's played outside their watch.

What rules exist at the Affiliate (Minnesota Hockey) level? How are they worded? (I can never seem to find Minnesota Hockey's rules on its website.)

Our rules here are worded that teams can't play unsanctioned games, but that's rendered moot when they aren't playing under the governance of those rules anyway.

If you stopped me from pulling kids together for a game, who would you hit with the sanctions? The Association that has nothing to do with it? The kids themselves? That won't work, because any appeal that made it to Colorado Springs would be overturned.

I'm interested to learn how this could be stopped. Choice programs at Minnesota Made are going strong in your state. Full-ice Mites in Michigan and Colorado under AAU. A few Junior leagues operating outside USA Hockey. All things that some said USA Hockey or its Affiliates could stop.

O-townClown wrote:Mark Elliott:

Please walk me through how you can stop a parent from taking a group of kids to play AAU games during the season. I don't see how you can stop it.

As I see it there are 5 levels of regulation.

USA Hockey
District
Affiliate
District (within Minnesota)
Local Program/Association

USA Hockey will not stop this from happening. Doing so would bring their status as the NGP into question. As much as they want to regulate all hockey, they can't. NCAA and MSHSL hockey are some examples of hockey that's played outside their watch.

What rules exist at the Affiliate (Minnesota Hockey) level? How are they worded? (I can never seem to find Minnesota Hockey's rules on its website.)

Our rules here are worded that teams can't play unsanctioned games, but that's rendered moot when they aren't playing under the governance of those rules anyway.

If you stopped me from pulling kids together for a game, who would you hit with the sanctions? The Association that has nothing to do with it? The kids themselves? That won't work, because any appeal that made it to Colorado Springs would be overturned.

I'm interested to learn how this could be stopped. Choice programs at Minnesota Made are going strong in your state. Full-ice Mites in Michigan and Colorado under AAU. A few Junior leagues operating outside USA Hockey. All things that some said USA Hockey or its Affiliates could stop.

MH would sanction the local association. Perhaps (probably) the coach.
The team (barring from post season, invitational events, further games) maybe sanctioned.

The wording I believe is simialr to the MSHSL rule banning individual players from being on additional rosters (there are exceptions that have or need advanced approval).

I am not saying they cannot go out and form some teams under a different heading such as AAU. I am not saying it is right or wrong.
JUst saying it is not allowed and I do not know what USAH says but they have endorsed MH rule.

And I think someone would say something about it so finding out about it usually happens.

Basically, during the season you play for us under our rules or ELSE you do not play.

elliott70 wrote:

O-townClown wrote:Mark Elliott:

Please walk me through how you can stop a parent from taking a group of kids to play AAU games during the season. I don't see how you can stop it.

As I see it there are 5 levels of regulation.

USA Hockey
District
Affiliate
District (within Minnesota)
Local Program/Association

USA Hockey will not stop this from happening. Doing so would bring their status as the NGP into question. As much as they want to regulate all hockey, they can't. NCAA and MSHSL hockey are some examples of hockey that's played outside their watch.

What rules exist at the Affiliate (Minnesota Hockey) level? How are they worded? (I can never seem to find Minnesota Hockey's rules on its website.)

Our rules here are worded that teams can't play unsanctioned games, but that's rendered moot when they aren't playing under the governance of those rules anyway.

If you stopped me from pulling kids together for a game, who would you hit with the sanctions? The Association that has nothing to do with it? The kids themselves? That won't work, because any appeal that made it to Colorado Springs would be overturned.

I'm interested to learn how this could be stopped. Choice programs at Minnesota Made are going strong in your state. Full-ice Mites in Michigan and Colorado under AAU. A few Junior leagues operating outside USA Hockey. All things that some said USA Hockey or its Affiliates could stop.

MH would sanction the local association. Perhaps (probably) the coach.
The team (barring from post season, invitational events, further games) maybe sanctioned.

The wording I believe is simialr to the MSHSL rule banning individual players from being on additional rosters (there are exceptions that have or need advanced approval).

I am not saying they cannot go out and form some teams under a different heading such as AAU. I am not saying it is right or wrong.
JUst saying it is not allowed and I do not know what USAH says but they have endorsed MH rule.

And I think someone would say something about it so finding out about it usually happens.

Basically, during the season you play for us under our rules or ELSE you do not play.

Mark, can a kid play assocation hockey and also play, say, AAU basketball (hypothetically speaking of course)? Are there any district or MN Hockey rules preventing that? It is a yes or no question.

JSR wrote:

elliott70 wrote:

O-townClown wrote:Mark Elliott:

Please walk me through how you can stop a parent from taking a group of kids to play AAU games during the season. I don't see how you can stop it.

As I see it there are 5 levels of regulation.

USA Hockey
District
Affiliate
District (within Minnesota)
Local Program/Association

USA Hockey will not stop this from happening. Doing so would bring their status as the NGP into question. As much as they want to regulate all hockey, they can't. NCAA and MSHSL hockey are some examples of hockey that's played outside their watch.

What rules exist at the Affiliate (Minnesota Hockey) level? How are they worded? (I can never seem to find Minnesota Hockey's rules on its website.)

Our rules here are worded that teams can't play unsanctioned games, but that's rendered moot when they aren't playing under the governance of those rules anyway.

If you stopped me from pulling kids together for a game, who would you hit with the sanctions? The Association that has nothing to do with it? The kids themselves? That won't work, because any appeal that made it to Colorado Springs would be overturned.

I'm interested to learn how this could be stopped. Choice programs at Minnesota Made are going strong in your state. Full-ice Mites in Michigan and Colorado under AAU. A few Junior leagues operating outside USA Hockey. All things that some said USA Hockey or its Affiliates could stop.

MH would sanction the local association. Perhaps (probably) the coach.
The team (barring from post season, invitational events, further games) maybe sanctioned.

The wording I believe is simialr to the MSHSL rule banning individual players from being on additional rosters (there are exceptions that have or need advanced approval).

I am not saying they cannot go out and form some teams under a different heading such as AAU. I am not saying it is right or wrong.
JUst saying it is not allowed and I do not know what USAH says but they have endorsed MH rule.

And I think someone would say something about it so finding out about it usually happens.

Basically, during the season you play for us under our rules or ELSE you do not play.

Mark, can a kid play assocation hockey and also play, say, AAU basketball (hypothetically speaking of course)? Are there any district or MN Hockey rules preventing that? It is a yes or no question.

Yes, kids can play other sports.
So the answer to the quesition is,

No.

Mark, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out that I don't think you could stop me if I were so inclined. If I brought some kids up and we couldn't make it work for whatever reason...let's say Squirt game cap.

So I tell my buddy to bring whatever kids he can scrape together. We find a rink in Crookston or Bemidji or wherever. They rent us ice. I walk them through the AAU venue stuff. Never one to turn down incremental revenue, whoever it is says yes. We play.

Suppose some kids are from Thief River, Warroad, Roseau, Crookston, and Fergus Falls. Now you want to sanction the association? You have me (from out of state), kids, and some parents that were looking for more hockey.

I don't see how you're sanctioning anyone. In USA Hockey's eyes this game didn't exist.

We don't turn the proverbial "blind eye" on anything.

O-Town, your scenario is a bit of a stretch.

Yes? No?

observer wrote:O-Town, your scenario is a bit of a stretch.

AAU Michigan
AAU Colorado
WSHL operating under an AAU sanction

I'm not sure.

My prediction over time is that the Minnesota model holds up because it works very well and there are mostly municipal rinks. That said, if a parent from Wayzata takes most of his son's teammates to Minnesota Made to play a team from another state you can't really go after the coach that is against it.

I meant this part.

So I tell my buddy to bring whatever kids he can scrape together. We find a rink in Crookston or Bemidji or wherever. They rent us ice. I walk them through the AAU venue stuff. Never one to turn down incremental revenue, whoever it is says yes. We play.

Suppose some kids are from Thief River, Warroad, Roseau, Crookston, and Fergus Falls.

O-townClown wrote:Mark, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out that I don't think you could stop me if I were so inclined. If I brought some kids up and we couldn't make it work for whatever reason...let's say Squirt game cap.

So I tell my buddy to bring whatever kids he can scrape together. We find a rink in Crookston or Bemidji or wherever. They rent us ice. I walk them through the AAU venue stuff. Never one to turn down incremental revenue, whoever it is says yes. We play.

Suppose some kids are from Thief River, Warroad, Roseau, Crookston, and Fergus Falls. Now you want to sanction the association? You have me (from out of state), kids, and some parents that were looking for more hockey.

I don't see how you're sanctioning anyone. In USA Hockey's eyes this game didn't exist.

The kids cannot be on a second roster during the 'season'.
If the wrong people found out they would be denied playing on their local association team unless those teams/associations did not mind being sanctioned.

Minneosta High School players (hockey and otherwise) cannot play on a second team during the 'season'. If they do they are not eligble to play for the HS team.

As an example, a bantam eligible kid tries out for bantams makes the local A (or AA) team. The kid is good and is asked by the HS coach to come and try out for varsity. From the first day of try-outs the kid cannot participate on the bantam team or else he jeopardizes the HS team's eligibilty. As MH we do not care if he is there, he can come back to MH by Dec 31. But he cannot do both.

The basic rule is to assure kids play for their local association as number 1 prioity. Minnesota Made kids can play for both MM and local association but they are mites and squirts. When they hit peewees it is going to be a different story.

Me, I do not care where they play. My job, as I see it, is to help the local associations not run afoul of the rules but to guide them through it. Sometimes I have no answer for them.

O-townClown wrote:

observer wrote:O-Town, your scenario is a bit of a stretch.

AAU Michigan
AAU Colorado
WSHL operating under an AAU sanction

I'm not sure.

My prediction over time is that the Minnesota model holds up because it works very well and there are mostly municipal rinks. That said, if a parent from Wayzata takes most of his son's teammates to Minnesota Made to play a team from another state you can't really go after the coach that is against it.

Yes, AAU hockey does exist, but there is not much of it.
Will AAU make in roads into Minnesota?
I may find out......???

elliott70 wrote: The kids cannot be on a second roster during the 'season'.

Minnesota Made kids can play for both MM and local association but they are mites and squirts. When they hit peewees it is going to be a different story.

But there are roughly 70 pee wees playing at MM right now and most play for their associations too?

elliott70 wrote:The kids cannot be on a second roster during the 'season'.
If the wrong people found out they would be denied playing on their local association team unless those teams/associations did not mind being sanctioned.

Mark, AAU Hockey rosters are not a "second roster" in the eyes of USA Hockey. It's no different than if a kid is listed on the playbill of the school play or shows up in a church league volleyball match.

Much as we want to have some control over this activity, we can't. I just don't see how District 6 can stop it if I bring a team to play Eden Prairie's Squirts at Minnesota Made under an AAU sanction.

Man, have you ever changed your tune.

It's no different than if a kid is listed on the playbill of the school play or shows up in a church league volleyball match.

Of course it's different. What a silly comparison.

You can bring a team but I don't think the Eden Prairie Squirts will play them. Also, what a bunch of far-fetched speculation about nothing. Your team would have a better experience signing up for a Minnesota Squirt tournament. And, I'll add, involve your child in respected activities or they'll end up thinking slippery is ok.

Do the pee-wees @ the made play both. I thought it was a supplimental league ?? Is this the case ???

old goalie85 wrote:Do the pee-wees @ the made play both. I thought it was a supplimental league ?? Is this the case ???

Not sure what you're asking. The players that sign up, most are also rostered on an association team, practice and play games with their choice team and also practice with and play on their association team.

This, I thought, is well known. The only reason I brought it up was because Elliot said its a different story when the kids hit Pee Wee.

Elliot??

Snow-thats exactly what I was trying to get @.

old goalie85 wrote:Snow-thats exactly what I was trying to get @.

Oops missed the sarcasm

Elliot??