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Zamman wrote:Any private school in the seven county metro should be forced to play AA. They pull their kids from all over whether they are in an A school or AA school. Puts the playing field on the level. Then other schools such as a Mpls Co-op can play down to A as they should....

Any takers STA, TG, Breck or Blake?

Excellent idea.

elliott70 wrote:72 double A teams, so 8 opt ups.

You cannot opt down.

The 6 opt ups are:
Roseau
Grand Rapids
Cloquet
Hill
Benilde
AHA
and 2 more

Holy Family & St. Paul Johnson

Is this going to turn into who should do what and what we should do?

My opinion:
Don't force a move between classes based on success only.
use a regional system to split it up.
Force any non public school into aa.

defense wrote:Is this going to turn into who should do what and what we should do?

My opinion:
Don't force a move between classes based on success only.
use a regional system to split it up.
Force any non public school into aa.

We all agree private schools by nature have "advantages" that the average public school doesn't have, but to say a school like Legacy Christian Academy, who has the 5th smallest enrollment of all schools, should be AA is silly. That's why I think for them it should be based on success.

Based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_ ... ice_hockey

Shouldn't Le Sueur-Henderson/St. Peter be AA?

goldy313 wrote:

elliott70 wrote:72 double A teams, so 8 opt ups.

You cannot opt down.

The 6 opt ups are:
Roseau
Grand Rapids
Cloquet
Hill
Benilde
AHA
and 2 more

Holy Family & St. Paul Johnson

As Johnson is a coop of Johnson and Humboldt, their combined enrollment is over 1,500. They're forced into AA.

Lee

Zamman wrote:Any private school in the seven county metro should be forced to play AA. They pull their kids from all over whether they are in an A school or AA school. Puts the playing field on the level. Then other schools such as a Mpls Co-op can play down to A as they should....

Any takers STA, TG, Breck or Blake?

So your'e saying SPA, Minnehaha Academy, and Providence Acedemy should all be required to play AA. How does that make it better? Those programs barely can put a jv and a varstiy team on the ice. Blake is borderline, I know it is VERY difficult to be admitted, whether you are a good athlete or not, but their #'s are way down too.
Breck and STA? There is defnifitely an argument there. IMO.

east hockey wrote:

goldy313 wrote:

elliott70 wrote:72 double A teams, so 8 opt ups.

You cannot opt down.

The 6 opt ups are:
Roseau
Grand Rapids
Cloquet
Hill
Benilde
AHA
and 2 more

Holy Family & St. Paul Johnson

As Johnson is a coop of Johnson and Humboldt, their combined enrollment is over 1,500. They're forced into AA.

Lee

Anyone know the 8th opt up school?

The New Ulm area has added the Sleepy Eye program to their coop this year. Based on the enrollment they were supposed to move to AA. The MSHSL looked at it and allowed them to stay at the A level for this year and would reevaluate the program for the next season. So this is a case that allowed a school to opt down.

Iranger33 wrote:The New Ulm area has added the Sleepy Eye program to their coop this year. Based on the enrollment they were supposed to move to AA. The MSHSL looked at it and allowed them to stay at the A level for this year and would reevaluate the program for the next season. So this is a case that allowed a school to opt down.

Huh??

Iranger33 wrote:The New Ulm area has added the Sleepy Eye program to their coop this year. Based on the enrollment they were supposed to move to AA. The MSHSL looked at it and allowed them to stay at the A level for this year and would reevaluate the program for the next season. So this is a case that allowed a school to opt down.

Good decision. IMO, the Osseo co-op is the only co-op that should be required to be in Class AA.

elliott70 wrote:

Iranger33 wrote:The New Ulm area has added the Sleepy Eye program to their coop this year. Based on the enrollment they were supposed to move to AA. The MSHSL looked at it and allowed them to stay at the A level for this year and would reevaluate the program for the next season. So this is a case that allowed a school to opt down.

Huh??

Only 1 kid was added from the new coop, a kid from springfield. So with the 1 kid they have to take the whole enrollment from sprinfield and that put them over 1400 kids. They had combined their youth programs and decided to combine the high school as well. The MSHSL allowed them to stay at the A level since the coop only included 1 kid.

Iranger33 wrote:

elliott70 wrote:

Iranger33 wrote:The New Ulm area has added the Sleepy Eye program to their coop this year. Based on the enrollment they were supposed to move to AA. The MSHSL looked at it and allowed them to stay at the A level for this year and would reevaluate the program for the next season. So this is a case that allowed a school to opt down.

Huh??

Only 1 kid was added from the new coop, a kid from springfield. So with the 1 kid they have to take the whole enrollment from sprinfield and that put them over 1400 kids. They had combined their youth programs and decided to combine the high school as well. The MSHSL allowed them to stay at the A level since the coop only included 1 kid.

Well, that makes sense.
Hard to beleive teh MSHSL board came up with that.
J/K guys.

elliott70 wrote:

Iranger33 wrote:

elliott70 wrote: Huh??

Only 1 kid was added from the new coop, a kid from springfield. So with the 1 kid they have to take the whole enrollment from sprinfield and that put them over 1400 kids. They had combined their youth programs and decided to combine the high school as well. The MSHSL allowed them to stay at the A level since the coop only included 1 kid.

Well, that makes sense.
Hard to beleive teh MSHSL board came up with that.
J/K guys.

Once in a while they do things that do make sense....

HSHW, the 8th opt-up is Bemidji.

elliott70 wrote:

Iranger33 wrote:

elliott70 wrote: Huh??

Only 1 kid was added from the new coop, a kid from springfield. So with the 1 kid they have to take the whole enrollment from sprinfield and that put them over 1400 kids. They had combined their youth programs and decided to combine the high school as well. The MSHSL allowed them to stay at the A level since the coop only included 1 kid.

Well, that makes sense.
Hard to beleive teh MSHSL board came up with that.
J/K guys.

Whoa, New Ulm is co-oped with a private school. The MSHSL should've kept them in AA, where all private schools belong.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

elliott70 wrote:

Iranger33 wrote: Only 1 kid was added from the new coop, a kid from springfield. So with the 1 kid they have to take the whole enrollment from sprinfield and that put them over 1400 kids. They had combined their youth programs and decided to combine the high school as well. The MSHSL allowed them to stay at the A level since the coop only included 1 kid.

Well, that makes sense.
Hard to beleive teh MSHSL board came up with that.
J/K guys.

Whoa, New Ulm is co-oped with a private school. The MSHSL should've kept them in AA, where all private schools belong.

Where does it say that New Ulm is co-oped with a private school???? And according to this thread, they were supposed to be in AA.

defense wrote:Where does it say that New Ulm is co-oped with a private school???? And according to this thread, they were supposed to be in AA.

http://www.minnhock.com/names.htm

They are co-oped with Minnesota Valley Lutheran and New Ulm Cathedral...two private schools actually

east hockey wrote:

goldy313 wrote:

elliott70 wrote:72 double A teams, so 8 opt ups.

You cannot opt down.

The 6 opt ups are:
Roseau
Grand Rapids
Cloquet
Hill
Benilde
AHA
and 2 more

Holy Family & St. Paul Johnson

As Johnson is a coop of Johnson and Humboldt, their combined enrollment is over 1,500. They're forced into AA.

Lee

No,

Humbolt is a class AA football school meaning the have an adjusted enrollment at or under 347, Johnson is a AAA football school meaning they have an adjsuted enrollment at or under 622. Combined Johnson and Humbolt's adjusted enrollment is 969 at the highest....They're a class A school that opts up.

One of the easiest ways to look at adjusted erollments is by using football class, with now 7 classes the adjusted enrollments are easier to estimate.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

defense wrote:Where does it say that New Ulm is co-oped with a private school???? And according to this thread, they were supposed to be in AA.

http://www.minnhock.com/names.htm

They are co-oped with Minnesota Valley Lutheran and New Ulm Cathedral...two private schools actually

New Ulm population: 13,522
Twin Cities population: 3,317,308

Calling this comparison apples to oranges is to undertake in the most colossal of understatements.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

defense wrote:Where does it say that New Ulm is co-oped with a private school???? And according to this thread, they were supposed to be in AA.

http://www.minnhock.com/names.htm

They are co-oped with Minnesota Valley Lutheran and New Ulm Cathedral...two private schools actually

Ya, I thought about that later....
Matters not, they decide to coop w private, fine, play aa. That is a decision they made. They also are the only ones who should be responsible for them being competitive. They are not competitive? So? That is their responsibility, not the mshsls .

"A" hockey used to exist for small schools to have a chance to play in a State Tournament.

That is until rich parents figured out they could enroll their kids in private schools and use that as another way to get little Johnny into the Tourney.

So they just keep making more private "A" teams consisting of kids who played their youth hockey in huge associations and most years they steal the A trophy from the legit small school kids.

All for the parents glory.

I hope that explains it.

WB6162 wrote:"A" hockey used to exist for small schools to have a chance to play in a State Tournament.

That is until rich parents figured out they could enroll their kids in private schools and use that as another way to get little Johnny into the Tourney.

So they just keep making more private "A" teams consisting of kids who played their youth hockey in huge associations and most years they steal the A trophy from the legit small school kids.

All for the parents glory.

I hope that explains it.

Bingo! We have a winner folks! Very accurate and true statement by WB6162, nuff said.

The X wrote:

WB6162 wrote:"A" hockey used to exist for small schools to have a chance to play in a State Tournament.

That is until rich parents figured out they could enroll their kids in private schools and use that as another way to get little Johnny into the Tourney.

So they just keep making more private "A" teams consisting of kids who played their youth hockey in huge associations and most years they steal the A trophy from the legit small school kids.

All for the parents glory.

I hope that explains it.

Bingo! We have a winner folks! Very accurate and true statement by WB6162, nuff said.

Oh yeah, Hermantown and Mahtomedi are really small schools

Whether that was the intent of the split or not 20 years ago, it has not done that since the split. If that was the intent, they would not have allowed teams to opt up to the higher class. It may have been public schools going, but all the winners were from hockey communities. Period.

People keep repeating this, but there has been no documentation from the MSHSL presented to support this. It may have been the intent 20 years ago, but if it were the intent still today, there would be drastic changes made. Like it or not, no one wants to see a bunch of small schools going.

No one disagrees that most private schools could be in the higher class, but way to change the topic of the thread.

The X wrote:

WB6162 wrote:"A" hockey used to exist for small schools to have a chance to play in a State Tournament.

That is until rich parents figured out they could enroll their kids in private schools and use that as another way to get little Johnny into the Tourney.

So they just keep making more private "A" teams consisting of kids who played their youth hockey in huge associations and most years they steal the A trophy from the legit small school kids.

All for the parents glory.

I hope that explains it.

Bingo! We have a winner folks! Very accurate and true statement by WB6162, nuff said.

This is why any private school in the Metro area, plus Rochester, Duluth and St. Cloud should be AA and schools like MPLS and St. Paul's should be A.

HShockeywatcher wrote:

The X wrote:

WB6162 wrote:"A" hockey used to exist for small schools to have a chance to play in a State Tournament.

That is until rich parents figured out they could enroll their kids in private schools and use that as another way to get little Johnny into the Tourney.

So they just keep making more private "A" teams consisting of kids who played their youth hockey in huge associations and most years they steal the A trophy from the legit small school kids.

All for the parents glory.

I hope that explains it.

Bingo! We have a winner folks! Very accurate and true statement by WB6162, nuff said.

Oh yeah, Hermantown and Mahtomedi are really small schools

Whether that was the intent of the split or not 20 years ago, it has not done that since the split. If that was the intent, they would not have allowed teams to opt up to the higher class. It may have been public schools going, but all the winners were from hockey communities. Period.

People keep repeating this, but there has been no documentation from the MSHSL presented to support this. It may have been the intent 20 years ago, but if it were the intent still today, there would be drastic changes made. Like it or not, no one wants to see a bunch of small schools going.

No one disagrees that most private schools could be in the higher class, but way to change the topic of the thread.

Watcher, as a private school Sta alum, what do you consider small? Hermantown total class size 9-12 is 626.
Thats about 313 boys spanning 4 years or about 78 boys per class.
Of the 78 about 12-18 play hockey.
Hermantown is less than half the size required to play class A yet you think it is so big that you need to bang your head up against a brick wall if someone calls it small??
By the definition of what seperates a A from AA school in Hockey, Hermantown is pretty small sorry to tell you.
What is really amazing is that a small public school like hermantown can even compete against a large private boys prep school with 554 boys like Sta.
Sta has no amature hockey program like herm and other publics are fed by. Sta if fed by all the public school amature programs in a metro area over 3 million people.
STA/Breck sit on top of class A just about every year, big deal.
They would/should sit at the top of AA.
Here's to hoping a true class A school can knock STA/Breck off their high horse this year.

HShockeywatcher wrote:Oh yeah, Hermantown and Mahtomedi are really small schools

Whether that was the intent of the split or not 20 years ago, it has not done that since the split. If that was the intent, they would not have allowed teams to opt up to the higher class. It may have been public schools going, but all the winners were from hockey communities. Period.

People keep repeating this, but there has been no documentation from the MSHSL presented to support this. It may have been the intent 20 years ago, but if it were the intent still today, there would be drastic changes made. Like it or not, no one wants to see a bunch of small schools going.

No one disagrees that most private schools could be in the higher class, but way to change the topic of the thread.

Talk about !

That was and still is the intent of ALL class splits in ALL sports. Its a flawed system to try and give all schools an equal opportunity to compete for a state championship. Why else do you think these class splits exist? Just for fun? The MSHSL is not going to present documentation of this for you... its common sense.

You are obviously unfamiliar with how the MSHSL operates, there SHOULD be drastic changes, and that's what people are griping about. They don't make changes, however, as their primary interest is in equal opportunities and education - not what's best for boys hockey.

FYI, more than half of the teams in class A have larger enrollments than Hermantown. Their enrollment is right inline with that of Proctor, Hibbing, Little Falls, and East Grand Forks. Mahtomedi is twice the size, as is Duluth Denfeld, Waconia, Rogers, Alexandria and a handful of others. They ARE the perfect example of a small school... and they don't have any coops like half of the other class A teams.