HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

First of all stop telling us to "Think about it". That's a dumb way to end a post.

Secondly you all need to step back and see this for what it is. While I like the fact the Blades have offered this camp, clinic, team or whatever you want to call it, it goes a bit deeper than advanced training.

In today's watered down market of summer AAA hockey, there is a tremendous amount of pressure and competition to attract top end players early on. Teams like the Blades, Machine have been battling for years to attract the top talent. Now mix in the Iceman, Reebok, Legacy, Monopoly and a whole host of others who manage to attract a couple top players each year, it makes it even more difficult for the Blades and Machine to fill their rosters with truly "Elite" players. There used to only be 2 dogs in the fight for players...now there are 20 dogs in the fight.

So organizations like the Machine created the mite and squirt choice leagues. While it may be a nice money maker for the Made, it was also a brilliant stroke of genius in the war of recruiting top end players. Essentially they created their own feeder system. They created a model which provides the opportunity to get their "hooks" into players at the age of 5 or 6 instead of waiting til the age of 8 or 9.

The Blades are simply following suit. They too need thier feeder system if they are going to stay on par with the Machine. The days of waiting until the player turns 8 or 9 before they recruit them are over. With the way AAA teams compete for players today, players need to be identified earlier. Choice leages, Mite Plus programs are very good and competitive ways to do just that.

Keep in mind that top end AAA prgrams are all about maintaining and strengtheing their brand. The best way to do that is recruit as many studs as you can and win as many tournaments as you can. All the other stuff about development, teamwork, is just fluff and marketing messages.

If you don't believe me ask yourself one question, "What happens to a player who was recruited to one of these top-end programs and it turns out he's not quite there yet? Do they develop him or cut him loose?"

observer wrote:They want you to apply that energy, and enthusiasm, to your community based hockey association. And, you should. Help to improve all the kids as your son will need some linemates or a defensive partner. Life is about serving others. Don't be selfish. What can you do to help all the kids in your community?

What do you do when the association does nothing meaningful to develop a certain age group?

I hope this backfires big time for D6.

The obvious fact about a player that supplements their association Mite season is that they'll become a better player for that association by going to this Blades offering.

It completely disgusts me! I do think at the PW and BTM level there could be injury issues and exposures but at Mites, let them do what the hell they want.

When MM started the PW Supplemental Choice program this year its full contact checking. How would you like that kid coming to your association game all banged up from something that happened over at MM and now can't play for you?

Mites it should be no big deal.

District 6 chime in please?

As long as the verbaige of participating on USA Hockey sanctioned team remains the same this will not hold water. # 1 this is an attempt by the cronie Hewitt to stop kids from going to MM Mite program. Understandable they, d6 want to stop it, but this is the wrong way. # 2 the Blades mite program, the MM mite program, the breakfast club, the Karn Skate school, the Velocity, and Total hockey programs are not teams sanctioned with MN hockey or USA hockey. In USA Hockeys eyes they are not teams.

Can someone be scared to not do it? sure. Can a coach at squirt or above tell a kid he won't play for the association if he goes to MM? Sure. But the chances of that being in play more then once is nill. I know of a few kids that did MM mites and their own mites, you know what, good for them.

This program and mm mite program seem to be awesome in making the kids better hockey players. Good for them. One of these programs is stating "in addition to your assocation" and some here bash that? Perhaps MN hockey will A) benefit from the training these kids receive and B) Work harder to make association mite programs better.

Creative thinking is good

mnhcp wrote:It completely disgusts me! I do think at the PW and BTM level there could be injury issues and exposures but at Mites, let them do what the hell they want.

When MM started the PW Supplemental Choice program this year its full contact checking. How would you like that kid coming to your association game all banged up from something that happened over at MM and now can't play for you?

Mites it should be no big deal.

District 6 chime in please?

I kind of agree that the PW Supplemental Choice program adds some risk with the fact that there is contact allowed, but that is still not a good enough reason to do what they are doing.

Will D6 start to have officials camped out at all of the outdoor rinks to make sure that kids aren't getting banged up playing rink rat hockey?

D6 is basically putting it out there that their association parents aren't smart enough to make good choices for their kids so they will do it themselves.

Arrogance and ego. Let the lawsuits commence.

Cut Above wrote: If a player is found to be registered or playing with another team, the District Director will determine, in their sole discretion, what sanction shall be assessed which may include, without limitation, suspension for the remainder of the

So Hewitt will be the judge and jury on this? I wonder if MM's program and the Blades program will be treated alike?

Houston we have a problem! The District 6 "League" policy is, among other things, ambiguously written.

By its terms, the new policy provides that "A player registered with a District 6 member association may not register OR play hockey with any other organization, association OR team during the winter hockey season, including playoffs. If a player is found to be registered OR playing with another team . . ." (Emphasis mine.)

First, what is the definition of "organization"? Second, what is the definition of "team? Those terms have many possible definitions, which means the new rule is ambiguous. Minnesota law provides that any ambiguity in a written document is construed against the drafter, in this case--District 6.

Does the term "organization" include MM, Blades, STE, Total Hockey, or XYZ? Does the term "team" or phrase "playing with a team" include AAA teams that get together on Sunday nights during the winter to skate and work on skills? Does "team" include the MM Choice Leagues or the new Blade Mite program? Does it include the Sunday night 3-on-3 leagues? The new rule appears to encompass these "leagues" as "teams" because the rule is labeled "League", but what is the definition of League?

Because the rule's key terms are each subject to more than one reasonable definition, this rule can be legitimately attacked, unless District 6 has included written definitions for the key terms in the new rule or elesewhere. Obviously, this rule is poorly drafted. The real question is who is going to put their child up as the poster child to test whether a court would ever enforce the policy?

District 6 and MN Hockey will have to figure out where they stand on this but have allowed it for MM so the barn door is open. It's no wonder other clubs need to offer it as well especially since MM locks in their players and makes them commit so young and early. They can't play in the Brick or sub on other teams. I still recommend parents approach this wisely and do their homework. USA Hockey and MN Hockey and District 6 how it will ultimately affect the community hockey programs.

I will never understand the benefits of playing MM hockey at the PW level or even the Squirt level I guess. Just old fashioned and support community hockey. Others like Hockeydad will continue to look for the best opportunity for their 6 year olds versus working to improve hockey in their community for everyone. I think this will ultimately weaken the strength of MN hockey players. Just one old dad's opinion. Time will be the only true test.

O-townClown wrote:The obvious fact about a player that supplements their association Mite season is that they'll become a better player for that association by going to this Blades offering.

That's not a given. I feel they will become a better person AND hockey player if their parents spend this time making them a better student or just spending more time with them AWAY from hockey.

If you want to look at the big picture and the long run, very few people here have the ability to do that.

Groups that offer these programs are a blessing to a lot of families that don't have the luxury of belonging to an association that has the ablility to put out a decent product.

These oldtimers like doglover who think they know everything and don't even have kids in youth hockey anymore sit back and pine away for the good old days, while looking down their noses at anyone who is trying to improve their own childs situation. Maybe they should just keep quiet and let those of us with a dog in the fight handle this battle.

Thank God for the mite and squirt supplemental programs. I wasted 4 years trying to affect change in my association with no success. It sounds really great to say that a person should try to make their community hockey program better, but unless you know what every association out there is like, you're just a gas bag. Would I patronize MM or anywhere else to get the best experience for my kids if I didn't feel I had to? Would anyone?

StayAtHomeD wrote:

O-townClown wrote:The obvious fact about a player that supplements their association Mite season is that they'll become a better player for that association by going to this Blades offering.

That's not a given. I feel they will become a better person AND hockey player if their parents spend this time making them a better student or just spending more time with them AWAY from hockey.

If you want to look at the big picture and the long run, very few people here have the ability to do that.

What?

We're talking about a couple hours a week here. Everyone already spends a hugely disproportionate amount of time with their kids away from hockey. Most kids spend about 35 hours a week in school and probably 5 or more doing homework and another dozen or more in front of the television. If I can trade out the TV video game time for ice time, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

A lot of us have kids that are already great students and fantastic citizens! Why? Can't play sports if their grades aren't up to snuff and if they ever got in trouble they know that the ice time goes away.

I think you are probably just making these kinds of posts to agitate people.

I feel they will become a better person AND hockey player if their parents spend this time making them a better student or just spending more time with them AWAY from hockey. quote/

I still recommend parents approach this wisely and do their homework.quote

Others like Hockeydad will continue to look for the best opportunity for their 6 year olds versus working to improve hockey in their community for everyone. quote

--------------------------

i realize these are opinions from either parents, grandparents or even people who might not have kids but want to weigh in on the state of hockey. and that is great.

my first question is in regard to the first quote from stayathome. if being away from hockey makes you a better person, why play at all? the logic dictates from that statement by not stepping on the ice ever you will raise the best kid possible. that statement makes absolutely no sense.

doglover, why is playing for an association and and organization in conflict with each other? best opp vs improving hockey in their community. these are not mutually exclusive points of view. can there be the possibility that a family could choose to do both and be able to elevate hockey in their home association and still compete with an organization such as the blades/MM?

dog, your best quote was parents approach wisely and do your homework.... what a novel idea! do you not think this is happening now? could a parent be looking at their son/daughter and make an intelligent decision to play both association and an organization together? or because this is not how it has been done in the past should still apply to the future?

D6 has taken the ability of a parent and child to come to an informed decision on what they would like to do and forced their choice. How does this help minnesota hockey? is this about fairness or some twisted idea of equality? will D6 outlaw backyard rinks because they feel it could give an unfair advantage to one child, or that they don't need to play that much hockey?

my opinion, is keep yours but don't deny mine. do what you and your child want. play association great, play blades too great, play mm great. skinner school great. SSM wonderful. do play hockey fine. not every kid/ parent wants to attempt all of these different options. the decision should be left to the parent and the child. their love of the sport and ability will level them off at some point. but for an organization to deny this choice is elitist and insulting.
to say that parents they don't know what is best for their child is following the same old broken down logic that pervades throughout society.

why can't we just be satisfied with the many options we have in this state for hockey and respect the right of families to choose whatever they think is best for their family?

Why do some people keep coming on these boards and criticizing decisions others make for them and their children regarding hockey??? Most do not do that sort of thing regarding other aspects of their life. Like other decisions in life most gather all the info they can and make an informed choice on what's best for them and their family. Would you criticize someone who chose a Kia over a Cadillac? A Honda over a Toyota? A chevy over Dodge, a car over a truck, because they thought it was the best situation for them. I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who in a life or death situation traveled to New York to go to one of the best doctors in a field, when they could of went to one a few miles away at your local HMO? I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who traveled 25 miles to one of the best (in their mind) piano teachers instead of going to one at your local park? I don't think so. The list is endless. So, why do you insist on doing it regarding hockey?

Yes.... why can't we all just join hands and sing kumbayah. LOL. Because it's a forum...........it wouldn't be entertaining if we all just got along.

hockeyover40 wrote:Why do some people keep coming on these boards and criticizing decisions others make for them and their children regarding hockey??? Most do not do that sort of thing regarding other aspects of their life. Like other decisions in life most gather all the info they can and make an informed choice on what's best for them and their family. Would you criticize someone who chose a Kia over a Cadillac? A Honda over a Toyota? A chevy over Dodge, a car over a truck, because they thought it was the best situation for them. I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who in a life or death situation traveled to New York to go to one of the best doctors in a field, when they could of went to one a few miles away at your local HMO? I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who traveled 25 miles to one of the best (in their mind) piano teachers instead of going to one at your local park? I don't think so. The list is endless. So, why do you insist on doing it regarding hockey?

I have a lifetime of experience to share and I am just trying to maybe give people another look. Over the years I have seen so many players that were the best at the Mite level and years later you don't even see them at the rink anymore. Most of the time it's because of crazy parents turning the child off to hockey by pushing too hard.

I'm just trying to say that your association hockey is MORE than enough for a 6 or 7 year old. Just make sure they are having fun and above all learning to be a part of a TEAM and not all about themselves. There's nothing wrong with a spring league or a summer skills camp but this is just over the top and it's an unneeded expense that I GUARANTEE you will not make one tiny bit of difference in the long run for your child.

It's just the wonderful BLADES sticking another nail in the coffin of Minnesota Hockey with another wacky idea they dreamed up. Next thing they'll want your 6 year old to travel to Chicago and play in some Mite Jamboree for about $2K. I wouldn't doubt that for a second.

And for every kid who's not playing hockey years later, there are how many still playing? Five, 6, 10? If he/she quit playing years later, it wasn't because their parents forced them to play in the Choice league, or the Blades camp, they didn't even exist yet. The crazy parents are going to push them out of hockey wherever they play.

StayAtHomeD wrote:I have a lifetime of experience to share and I am just trying to maybe give people another look. Over the years I have seen so many players that were the best at the Mite level and years later you don't even see them at the rink anymore.

I have a lifetime of experience to share too. You choose to adopt a holier-than-thou stance. That's different.

The cost of this program is very little, so I'm surprised you keep bringing it up. In the long run it won't matter? Then why play at all? Kids have to skate some or they won't get better.

You, Don Cherry, and everyone else can't tell me which superstar Mites are going to fall by the wayside. Some good players at that age are good players down the road.

It is hard to follow your thoughts and reach any conclusion other than that you are cynical. At what point does Royce Gracie, Eric Clapton, Patrick Kane, Tiger Woods, or Andre Agassi no longer need practice? Saying that this won't help is an erroneous gross oversimplification.

A few months ago you wondered whether a Junior Gold team could play with some Varsities. For some the difference will be whether they got off to a meaningful start.

Our assoc. was NOT enough for my child or others. So we looked at other options, and played in the choice league. After trying to get the assoc. to change the way they do thing for mites. We felt we had no other option but to leave. Our board officers were there for at least two terms, and are still there today. Our Prez has done some great things, but our HD guy, no. It's either his way or the highway. Doesn't listen to or want input from anyone that doesn't agree with him. He has in many occasions referred to this assoc. as "my program". Tried to point out to him that if we have had a mite player for 3 yrs, more if they played mini mites, and we keep sending them up to squirts not being able to skate, we're failing as a assoc. Four and 5 year hockey players should at the very least, have pretty good control of their edges, be able to skate backwards, do forward and backward crossovers etc. Well, as like in the past, our assoc. will be sending some squirts up to PW"s that cannot do these things. We tried to improve our assoc., they were having no part of it. Does that sound like a program you'd want your child to be part of?

So, a group of kids go play in the Choice league. And as most players in that first year of Choice, we went back to our assoc. as second yr. squirts with an eye on playing on the squirt A team. As a group, the kids were at the top of the team. Certainly the top two players were from the Choice league, with the rest near the top, and way ahead of the rest of the team as far as skating. The same has happened in other assoc. as well. In Edina, one of the top assoc. at least 7 kids on their squirt A team, played in the Choice league at one time. So, how you can say other options to assoc. hockey will not make one tiny bit of difference.

My guess is one reason why Dist 6 is coming up with this new rule is, there have been plenty of complaints of kids skating in the Choice league and returning to their assoc. and taking the places of kids who elected to stay in the assoc. Just a theory, but not to far fetched.

And before someone comes back at me. My child played 2 yrs. of
Choice. Does NOT play for any of the many MM summer teams, and has never been associated with the Blades organization.

O-townClown wrote:

StayAtHomeD wrote:I have a lifetime of experience to share and I am just trying to maybe give people another look. Over the years I have seen so many players that were the best at the Mite level and years later you don't even see them at the rink anymore.

I have a lifetime of experience to share too. You choose to adopt a holier-than-thou stance. That's different.

The cost of this program is very little, so I'm surprised you keep bringing it up. In the long run it won't matter? Then why play at all? Kids have to skate some or they won't get better.

You, Don Cherry, and everyone else can't tell me which superstar Mites are going to fall by the wayside. Some good players at that age are good players down the road.

It is hard to follow your thoughts and reach any conclusion other than that you are cynical. At what point does Royce Gracie, Eric Clapton, Patrick Kane, Tiger Woods, or Andre Agassi no longer need practice? Saying that this won't help is an erroneous gross oversimplification.

A few months ago you wondered whether a Junior Gold team could play with some Varsities. For some the difference will be whether they got off to a meaningful start.

I'm glad that you consider my opinions so important and profound that you remember them months later.

on the other hand, I really can't remember anything you have posted.

StayAtHomeD wrote:

O-townClown wrote:

StayAtHomeD wrote:I have a lifetime of experience to share and I am just trying to maybe give people another look. Over the years I have seen so many players that were the best at the Mite level and years later you don't even see them at the rink anymore.

I have a lifetime of experience to share too. You choose to adopt a holier-than-thou stance. That's different.

The cost of this program is very little, so I'm surprised you keep bringing it up. In the long run it won't matter? Then why play at all? Kids have to skate some or they won't get better.

You, Don Cherry, and everyone else can't tell me which superstar Mites are going to fall by the wayside. Some good players at that age are good players down the road.

It is hard to follow your thoughts and reach any conclusion other than that you are cynical. At what point does Royce Gracie, Eric Clapton, Patrick Kane, Tiger Woods, or Andre Agassi no longer need practice? Saying that this won't help is an erroneous gross oversimplification.

A few months ago you wondered whether a Junior Gold team could play with some Varsities. For some the difference will be whether they got off to a meaningful start.

I'm glad that you consider my opinions so important and profound that you remember them months later.

on the other hand, I really can't remember anything you have posted.

I don't know what it is considered to be a lifetime experience, couple years, ten or twenty? The "lifetime" I've spent around the game has told me that good mites turn into good squirts, and then great peewees, and then exceptional bantams. This happens more often than good mites just hanging up the skates and walking away later in their development. Again in my experience, top quality hockey players from mites to bantams want to be on the ice more, so why not let 'em. I've never seen a kid get worse from additional ice time! What's the big deal, drop the puck and let 'em play.

StayAtHomeD wrote:

hockeyover40 wrote:Why do some people keep coming on these boards and criticizing decisions others make for them and their children regarding hockey??? Most do not do that sort of thing regarding other aspects of their life. Like other decisions in life most gather all the info they can and make an informed choice on what's best for them and their family. Would you criticize someone who chose a Kia over a Cadillac? A Honda over a Toyota? A chevy over Dodge, a car over a truck, because they thought it was the best situation for them. I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who in a life or death situation traveled to New York to go to one of the best doctors in a field, when they could of went to one a few miles away at your local HMO? I don't think so. Would you criticize someone who traveled 25 miles to one of the best (in their mind) piano teachers instead of going to one at your local park? I don't think so. The list is endless. So, why do you insist on doing it regarding hockey?

I have a lifetime of experience to share and I am just trying to maybe give people another look. Over the years I have seen so many players that were the best at the Mite level and years later you don't even see them at the rink anymore. Most of the time it's because of crazy parents turning the child off to hockey by pushing too hard.

I'm just trying to say that your association hockey is MORE than enough for a 6 or 7 year old. Just make sure they are having fun and above all learning to be a part of a TEAM and not all about themselves. There's nothing wrong with a spring league or a summer skills camp but this is just over the top and it's an unneeded expense that I GUARANTEE you will not make one tiny bit of difference in the long run for your child.

It's just the wonderful BLADES sticking another nail in the coffin of Minnesota Hockey with another wacky idea they dreamed up. Next thing they'll want your 6 year old to travel to Chicago and play in some Mite Jamboree for about $2K. I wouldn't doubt that for a second.

The people I've talked to associated with MN Hockey about the Blades Mite Program are ALL for it. It's in conjunction with the kids winter association program and will not conflict with the home association. MN Hockey wants top notch instruction at every level, but at the Mite level especially. This program looks like it will provide that and at the same time preserve the basis for association based hockey in the state. It seems to me, that your up in arms because the Blades are providing this service and you don't like that.

I would say its good business.

Mn Blades planting the AAA hockey "seed" in the young players and parents.

The future is now in AAA.

Sounds like there are going to be a lot of folks testing the resolve of D6 over this one. Almost everyone I've spoken to about this has indicated they are still going to participate in both Choice and their own association hockey at the mite level.

Most believe that D6 can't or won't be able to enforce their new rule.

We are in D2, but I know I would not let any-one tell me what to do with my $, or my kids....