HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Goldfishdude wrote:Okay.. If someone with logic knows what the INTENT of the transfer rules are designed to benefit and/or discourage, please feel free to offer your knowledge. Why are there rules in place? Like in many legal situations, one has to clearly DEFINE INTENT..... What INTENT did the MSHSL have when transfer rules were put in place.

ability to legislate their rules fairly renders intent meaningless with schools and the league under Minn Statutes. So intent is secondary to all the legal protection/rights issues. Think Title 9, discrimination of _____ fill in the blank with FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, HEALTH ISSUES, MOVING, RESIDENCE CHANGE, CUSTODIAL CHANGES, ETC.... . What if a kid happens to transfer for reasons beyond his/her control??? the Intent is clearly to NOT penalize the kid for things beyond their control. Bottom line, once they allow one reason, they must apply it consistently and make it available to all.

hockey99vs87 wrote:

Goldfishdude wrote:Okay.. If someone with logic knows what the INTENT of the transfer rules are designed to benefit and/or discourage, please feel free to offer your knowledge. Why are there rules in place? Like in many legal situations, one has to clearly DEFINE INTENT..... What INTENT did the MSHSL have when transfer rules were put in place.

ability to legislate their rules fairly renders intent meaningless with schools and the league under Minn Statutes. So intent is secondary to all the legal protection/rights issues. Think Title 9, discrimination of _____ fill in the blank with FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, HEALTH ISSUES, MOVING, RESIDENCE CHANGE, CUSTODIAL CHANGES, ETC.... . What if a kid happens to transfer for reasons beyond his/her control??? the Intent is clearly to NOT penalize the kid for things beyond their control. Bottom line, once they allow one reason, they must apply it consistently and make it available to all.

Okay...We all seem to acknowledge that there are transfer rules, right?? After all, the MSHSL has a transfer rule in it's bylaws.

So, rather than argue and nitpick, let's make this easier, and maybe the MSHSL should make things easier by stating this:

What would deem a player NOT eligible to play VARSITY in a transfer??..

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:Almost positive he will have to play JV this year and he lost a year of varsity by transferring.

He can play Varsity at PL if he still lives in PL school district. When you transfer to another school and haven't moved out of the original school district, you are still eligible to play Varsity sports for the school district you live in (in this case PL)

The player would have had to play JV at AHA if he was not cut from the team because of the transfer to AHA.

Transfer Ruler from the MSHSL
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/eligque ... m#Transfer Rule

F. Enrollment Options Program: A student who utilizes Minnesota Statute 124D.03 Enrollment Options Program, and transfers without a corresponding change of residence by the student’s parents shall elect one of the following:

1) retain full eligibility for varsity competition for one (1) calendar year at the school where the student was enrolled prior to the transfer after which time the student shall become fully eligible at the school to which the student has open enrolled; or

2) be eligible only at the non-varsity level in the school to which the student has open enrolled for one (1) calendar year.

[quoteTransfer Ruler from the MSHSL
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/eligque ... m#Transfer Rule

F. Enrollment Options Program: A student who utilizes Minnesota Statute 124D.03 Enrollment Options Program, and transfers without a corresponding change of residence by the student’s parents shall elect one of the following:

1) retain full eligibility for varsity competition for one (1) calendar year at the school where the student was enrolled prior to the transfer after which time the student shall become fully eligible at the school to which the student has open enrolled; or

2) be eligible only at the non-varsity level in the school to which the student has open enrolled for one (1) calendar year.

Thanks, This is what I was looking for.[/quote]

sounds like a little baby to me. cant play with the big boys so he tells mommy and daddy he is going to play JV, then transfers. If he was good enough, i'm guessing he would of played

RLStars wrote:
He can play Varsity at PL if he still lives in PL school district. When you transfer to another school and haven't moved out of the original school district, you are still eligible to play Varsity sports for the school district you live in (in this case PL)

The player would have had to play JV at AHA if he was not cut from the team because of the transfer to AHA.

I don't think you've got the rule just right. A private to public home district transfer still results in loss of eligibility, unless an exception applies. If someone is considering doing this, suggest you make sure to clear it before taking any action.

Here is the text of the actual Bylaw 111.00:

DOMESTIC STUDENTS
1. A transfer student is eligible for varsity competition provided the student was in good standing on the date of withdrawal from the last school the student attended and one (1) of the provisions in Section 2 (below) is met.
2. A transfer student is eligible for varsity competition if:
A. 9th Grade Option: the student is enrolling in 9th grade for the first time;
B. Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

If the parents move from one public school district attendance area to another, the student shall continue to be fully eligible if the student continues enrollment in the prior school for the balance of the current marking period or for the balance of the academic school year. If the student elects either of the current enrollment options above, the student will be fully eligible upon transfer to the new school.

A student who elects not to transfer upon a parent’s change in residence shall continue to be eligible at the school in which the student is currently enrolled.
C. Court Ordered Residence Change for Child Protection: The student’s residence is changed pursuant to a child protection order placement in a foster home, or a juvenile court disposition order.
D. Custody of Student: A student of divorced parents who have joint physical custody of the student may move from one custodial parent to the other custodial parent and be fully eligible at the time of the move. The student may utilize this provision only one time during grades 9-12 inclusive.
E. Move From Out of State: If a student’s parents move to Minnesota from a state or country outside of Minnesota and if the student moves at the same time the parent establishes a residence in a Minnesota public school district attendance area, the student shall be eligible at the first school the student attends in Minnesota.
F. Enrollment Options Program: A student who utilizes Minnesota Statute 124D.03 Enrollment Options Program, and transfers without a corresponding change of residence by the student’s parents shall elect one of the following:
1) retain full eligibility for varsity competition for one (1) calendar year at the school where the student was enrolled prior to the transfer after which time the student shall become fully eligible at the school to which the student has open enrolled; or
2) be eligible only at the non-varsity level in the school to which the student has open enrolled for one (1) calendar year.
3. If none of the provisions in Section 2 (above) are met, the student is ineligible for varsity competition for a period of one (1) calendar year beginning with the first day of attendance in the new school.

heresaymatters wrote:

RLStars wrote:
He can play Varsity at PL if he still lives in PL school district. When you transfer to another school and haven't moved out of the original school district, you are still eligible to play Varsity sports for the school district you live in (in this case PL)

The player would have had to play JV at AHA if he was not cut from the team because of the transfer to AHA.

I don't think you've got the rule just right. A private to public home district transfer still results in loss of eligibility, unless an exception applies. If someone is considering doing this, suggest you make sure to clear it before taking any action.

Here is the text of the actual Bylaw 111.00:

DOMESTIC STUDENTS
1. A transfer student is eligible for varsity competition provided the student was in good standing on the date of withdrawal from the last school the student attended and one (1) of the provisions in Section 2 (below) is met.
2. A transfer student is eligible for varsity competition if:
A. 9th Grade Option: the student is enrolling in 9th grade for the first time;
B. Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

If the parents move from one public school district attendance area to another, the student shall continue to be fully eligible if the student continues enrollment in the prior school for the balance of the current marking period or for the balance of the academic school year. If the student elects either of the current enrollment options above, the student will be fully eligible upon transfer to the new school.

A student who elects not to transfer upon a parent’s change in residence shall continue to be eligible at the school in which the student is currently enrolled.
C. Court Ordered Residence Change for Child Protection: The student’s residence is changed pursuant to a child protection order placement in a foster home, or a juvenile court disposition order.
D. Custody of Student: A student of divorced parents who have joint physical custody of the student may move from one custodial parent to the other custodial parent and be fully eligible at the time of the move. The student may utilize this provision only one time during grades 9-12 inclusive.
E. Move From Out of State: If a student’s parents move to Minnesota from a state or country outside of Minnesota and if the student moves at the same time the parent establishes a residence in a Minnesota public school district attendance area, the student shall be eligible at the first school the student attends in Minnesota.
F. Enrollment Options Program: A student who utilizes Minnesota Statute 124D.03 Enrollment Options Program, and transfers without a corresponding change of residence by the student’s parents shall elect one of the following:
1) retain full eligibility for varsity competition for one (1) calendar year at the school where the student was enrolled prior to the transfer after which time the student shall become fully eligible at the school to which the student has open enrolled; or
2) be eligible only at the non-varsity level in the school to which the student has open enrolled for one (1) calendar year.
3. If none of the provisions in Section 2 (above) are met, the student is ineligible for varsity competition for a period of one (1) calendar year beginning with the first day of attendance in the new school.

Its the schools responsibility to determine eligibility, except for transfer they automatically rule ineligible, then it goes to appeals which are often denied, then to a hearing with unbiased LOL officer at the league level who will apply the rules and most kids with a decent PROVISION exception will be eligible based on rules in 111.00. but these are completely ignored by the League and some AD's. You must follow the path in 300.00 where they hide their circumvention of the school responsibility, with a willing participant AD. Whole system is a joke, that's why they might as well just have a free for all. Then there is the finincial or other hardship rule, which is a grey area and only in the 300.00 sections of the bylaws, not in the transfer "rules" in 111.00. Given current state of economy it would be easy to use financial hardship leaving private school for public. Several football players at WBL did just that leaving Totino Grace, of course the AD is the football coach.

Goldfishdude wrote:

hockey99vs87 wrote:

Goldfishdude wrote:Okay.. If someone with logic knows what the INTENT of the transfer rules are designed to benefit and/or discourage, please feel free to offer your knowledge. Why are there rules in place? Like in many legal situations, one has to clearly DEFINE INTENT..... What INTENT did the MSHSL have when transfer rules were put in place.

ability to legislate their rules fairly renders intent meaningless with schools and the league under Minn Statutes. So intent is secondary to all the legal protection/rights issues. Think Title 9, discrimination of _____ fill in the blank with FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, HEALTH ISSUES, MOVING, RESIDENCE CHANGE, CUSTODIAL CHANGES, ETC.... . What if a kid happens to transfer for reasons beyond his/her control??? the Intent is clearly to NOT penalize the kid for things beyond their control. Bottom line, once they allow one reason, they must apply it consistently and make it available to all.

Okay...We all seem to acknowledge that there are transfer rules, right?? After all, the MSHSL has a transfer rule in it's bylaws.

So, rather than argue and nitpick, let's make this easier, and maybe the MSHSL should make things easier by stating this:

What would deem a player NOT eligible to play VARSITY in a transfer??..

That might be too cut and dried??? LOL. I think the League LIKES having all these issues, it does give them a second job, by the way how much do these guys/gals make working for the League, many of them are full time with school districts, the President is AD or principal at mahtomedi, remember the football player that never had to pass through this process? until of course someone called him on it then he just played "aw shucks, we didn't realize" dumb... I doubt he's that dumb and wouldn't have thought about the rules???

This is DEFINITELY a case of inmates running the asylum, so all this talk about how confusing and screwed up it is, should not be surprising to anyone, indeed its a moot point because.

Sounds more to me that the player's dad needs his son to make a team. So if he can't make the team of choice he will bully his son's way onto a team that at least his son has friends on. Good for the kids, they will enjoy their teammates. Too bad for the parents who are now forced to deal with another bully in their midst.

If I were a parent involved with the PLHS hockey program I would certainly question both the coach and the AD how this could happen after tryouts. The only legit reason I could see is that comething financially coincidently happened to the family after tryouts that would not permit the family to make financial obligations to AHA.

lxhockey wrote:Sounds more to me that the player's dad needs his son to make a team. So if he can't make the team of choice he will bully his son's way onto a team that at least his son has friends on. Good for the kids, they will enjoy their teammates. Too bad for the parents who are now forced to deal with another bully in their midst.

If I were a parent involved with the PLHS hockey program I would certainly question both the coach and the AD how this could happen after tryouts. The only legit reason I could see is that comething financially coincidently happened to the family after tryouts that would not permit the family to make financial obligations to AHA.

I know nothing about PL but maybe the kid got the shaft??? Wouldn't be the first, won't be the last. If he's good enough and one coach wants him, let him play.

We are hearing about a case up in Duluth. A few kids (sophmore, junior, senior) within the Duluth School District (East & Denfeld) transferred into the private Duluth Marshall school without penalty (residence, etc). All are playing Varsity. What's stopping them from leaving that program to play across town next year?

hockey99vs87 wrote:

Zamman wrote:

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:Almost positive he will have to play JV this year and he lost a year of varsity by transferring.

If he transfers back then he can play JV without losing anything. Bad attitude though. Because you got cut then you leave. He was not good enough. Try again next year. Remember AHA has over 60 kids trying out for 40 spots.
Saves mom and dad a lot of money though.....

Bad attitude?? is it ok for a coach to cut kids that are clearly talented? what about put seniors on 4th line and never play them when they clearly are good enough and starred the year before??

Bad Attitude is something given for something received.

Coaches have power to play or cut but the kid has no grievance? Coaches are geniuses not to be second guessed?

HS Coaches play more mind games than any i've witnessed, perhaps a kid doesn't fit in, they why not let them move on where they are wanted and accepted.

Read the book about Bloomington Jefferson's hockey program under Saterdalen. I believe it is titled "Blades of Glory." I highly recommend to anyone whose children are playing in a competitive program.

As to the disability period I believe that the rule is once one transfers, if one goes back or elsewhere, one may not play varsity that year, so JV it is. The following year one may play varsity at the second school.

However does anyone know how the rule is applied considering the following facts. Eighth grader lives in X school boundary. Decides to attend school in Y boundary as a Freshman (does not move into Y boundary zone). May the player play varsity as a Freshman at school Y?

The player can do whatever he wants until the first day of 9th grade. That's when the kids make their decision. 8th graders are deciding now where they will attend school fall 2010.

The player can do whatever he wants until the first day of 9th grade. That's when the kids make their decision. 8th graders are deciding now where they will attend school fall 2010. Any transfer after 9th grade starts needs an excuse.

All assuming a public school and open enrollment, no residency change:

What if a kid made JV as a 7th grader or 8th grader.

1. Can they transfer to another school without penalty as 9th grader?

2. Will they have full rights to play JV or Varsity at the new school in which they open enrolled?

All just open enrollment.

3. Same question but what if they make JV at public school as a 7th/8th grader, then go to private school as a 9th grader, do they have full rights to play JV or Varsity? I'm assuming this is yes?

mnhcp wrote:All assuming a public school and open enrollment, no residency change:

What if a kid made JV as a 7th grader or 8th grader.

1. Can they transfer to another school without penalty as 9th grader?

2. Will they have full rights to play JV or Varsity?

All just open enrollment.

3. Same question but what if they make JV at public school as a 7th/8th grader, then go to private school as a 9th grader, do they have full rights to play JV or Varsity? I'm assuming this is yes?

My understanding is that transfers just can't play varsity for one year. As a member of a team of a public HS at 7th or 8th grade, I would assume that transfer rules would still apply as a 9th grader, because of already being involved in another HS program. JV yes, varsity - I don't think so.

Need to make your decision prior to your first day of your freshman year. So yes, they can play at the HS level as a 7th or 8th grader, then transfer without penalty.
But who has a 7th or 8th grader on the varsity with all the other kids they already?

There are no transfer rules in Minnesota - at least between private and public schools. Too many cases of kids playing immediately upon their transfer.

There are Transfer rules in Minnesota that include both Public/ Private.LAST DATE TO JOIN A TEAM — To be eligible for section and state competition, a student must be a member of that school’s team not later than the fourth Monday from the official start of that sport season.

OR

2. Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.
If the parents move from one public school district attendance area to another, the student shall continue to be fully eligible if the student continues enrollment in the prior school for the balance of the current marking period or for the balance of the academic school year. If the student elects either of the current enrollment options above, the student will be fully eligible upon transfer to the new school.
A student who elects not to transfer upon a parent’s change in residence shall continue to be eligible at the school in which the student is currently enrolled. Here is the link
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/publications.asp#2

Thanks, Jerry, for stating the obvious. With the way transfers flew around Duluth this year, it seems there are more ways to get around the MSHSL reg's than ways to abide by them.

Just my opinion, though. Others may disagree.

Thanks Jerry,

That's known as the "rent an apartment" loophole. The loophole isn't really renting it, it's that mom, dad, dog, brothers and sisters aren't all living there. In many instances it's a second residence not a change of residence.

Seems selfish, weird and disruptive to me. Classic, let's bring in some players and families with issues.

Which programs are winners of questionable roster tactics this year?

IMO if the MSHSL is not willing or able to uniformly enforce the transfer rules that were agreed on, they should just get rid of the whole thing. Right now it just rewards those people who are determined to avoid complying with them at whatever cost, cheating included.

This question may have been posted already, but I just need more clarification. Let's assume a athlete attends a public school his freshmen year, but decides to attend a private school beginning his sophomore year and resides in the same residence he did when attending public school how does the transfer rule apply? If, the rule states the athlete must sit out from playing varsity sports for 1 year where does the residency apply to not incur this infraction to attend private school. For example Hill Murray where does a family have to move to attend the school to avoid the 1 year penalty

Nobodyonya wrote:This question may have been posted already, but I just need more clarification. Let's assume a athlete attends a public school his freshmen year, but decides to attend a private school beginning his sophomore year and resides in the same residence he did when attending public school how does the transfer rule apply? If, the rule states the athlete must sit out from playing varsity sports for 1 year where does the residency apply to not incur this infraction to attend private school. For example Hill Murray where does a family have to move to attend the school to avoid the 1 year penalty

They would just have to move. I don't think it would matter where they moved to as private schools do not have an attendance area. If they didn't move, they would still be eligible for varsity at their old school for one year.