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Zepeda and Eddy should not be in the prospecting company of Ness, Gleason, and Gardiner.

Keep in mind these players are not being grouped, instead they are only being "scouted." The point is to share the strengths/weaknesses of some high level players in MN. Here are a few more I've seen.....

Ryan Bohrer F CDH: Great skater with quick accurate shot, and good vision. Lacks a kiler instinct and could play more physical. Attitude and defensive effort is preventing him from big time d-1 offers.

Chris Student D BSM: Very smooth and fast defenseman with good shot and solid playmaking skills. Not very physical, but as solid as they come.

Drew Olson D Brainerd: Beastly defenseman with great shot and good speed. Could work on passing and playmaking but as physically intimidating as I've seen in the state.

sachishi4 wrote:zepeda is getting better with hits, i saw him dish a couple last night in moorhead. Its tough always being the small quick guy though

it's better than being the small slow guy

saintpaulhockey wrote:

Zepeda and Eddy should not be in the prospecting company of Ness, Gleason, and Gardiner.

Keep in mind these players are not being grouped, instead they are only being "scouted." The point is to share the strengths/weaknesses of some high level players in MN. Here are a few more I've seen.....

Ryan Bohrer F CDH: Great skater with quick accurate shot, and good vision. Lacks a kiler instinct and could play more physical. Attitude and defensive effort is preventing him from big time d-1 offers.

Chris Student D BSM: Very smooth and fast defenseman with good shot and solid playmaking skills. Not very physical, but as solid as they come.

Drew Olson D Brainerd: Beastly defenseman with great shot and good speed. Could work on passing and playmaking but as physically intimidating as I've seen in the state.

Student is one of the best skaters in the state. To say he has a good shot is an exageration. Stick handling needs improvement.

komada77 wrote:Jake Gardiner-Minnetonka: Top NHL prospect in the state. Tall, lanky kid. Grew up playing forward, switched to D as a sophomore. Still learning how to play defense and is already very good at it. Excellent offensive defenseman.

Tyler Zepeda-Hill Murray: Very small (5'9", 155) forward. One of the fastest skaters in the state. If he gets on a breakaway, no one will catch him. Absolutely refuses to hit or be hit, shies away from all contact. Still a very skilled player.

Joe Gleason-Edina: Another very good skater on the blue line. Moves puck well. Racks up lots of assists, partially because of the ridiculous amount of talent surrounding him, so it's difficult to tell just how good he really is.

Aaron Ness-Roseau: Probably the most naturally gifted hockey player in the state. What he lacks in size (5-10, 165) he more than makes up for in pure playmaking ability. Absolutely owns the blue line. Unfortuantely, scouts have said he "couldn't break rice paper with his shot." Nonetheless, he is the only player in the state who, when you watch him play, you know he belongs on the ice.

David Eddy-Woodbury: Not necessarily a top prospect, but seems to be quite underrated. Leads SEC in scoring. Not the biggest kid around (5-10, 175) but loves to throw his body around and lays some vicious hits. Has excellent vision on the ice and is a good playmaker.

You are a hockey idiot to think Zepeda belongs in the same group as the others listed. He is no where near a complete player.

Very fast with upside......I will give you that.

Gardiner should win Mr. Hockey this year. His play in the recent game against Edina should put an explanation point on that.

breakout wrote:Gardiner should win Mr. Hockey this year. His play in the recent game against Edina should put an explanation point on that.

I thought the same thing the several times I've seen him play. He is dominant.

parrish4president wrote:

komada77 wrote:Jake Gardiner-Minnetonka: Top NHL prospect in the state. Tall, lanky kid. Grew up playing forward, switched to D as a sophomore. Still learning how to play defense and is already very good at it. Excellent offensive defenseman.

Tyler Zepeda-Hill Murray: Very small (5'9", 155) forward. One of the fastest skaters in the state. If he gets on a breakaway, no one will catch him. Absolutely refuses to hit or be hit, shies away from all contact. Still a very skilled player.

Joe Gleason-Edina: Another very good skater on the blue line. Moves puck well. Racks up lots of assists, partially because of the ridiculous amount of talent surrounding him, so it's difficult to tell just how good he really is.

Aaron Ness-Roseau: Probably the most naturally gifted hockey player in the state. What he lacks in size (5-10, 165) he more than makes up for in pure playmaking ability. Absolutely owns the blue line. Unfortuantely, scouts have said he "couldn't break rice paper with his shot." Nonetheless, he is the only player in the state who, when you watch him play, you know he belongs on the ice.

David Eddy-Woodbury: Not necessarily a top prospect, but seems to be quite underrated. Leads SEC in scoring. Not the biggest kid around (5-10, 175) but loves to throw his body around and lays some vicious hits. Has excellent vision on the ice and is a good playmaker.

Zepeda and Eddy should not be in the prospecting company of Ness, Gleason, and Gardiner.

on another note, can I get some good reviews of Mattson and Riola. How about some other talent out of Roseau? You dont get to hear much about anybody except Ness. I would love to hear input on other players.

Raiola is not in the same category as Gardiner, Ness and Gleason.

saintpaulhockey wrote:What do all these guys (leddy, youso etc) play like? I know their great players, but what about their game makes them so good?

Leddy should be put in the same light as Gardiner and Ness. He is one of the fastest players in the state, great defender and has offensive skills. If he comes back next year he will be scary good.

breakout wrote:Gardiner should win Mr. Hockey this year. His play in the recent game against Edina should put an explanation point on that.

You thought he played that well? Personally, I did not. He didn't play badly but he was hardly dominating either. The first goal he scored was a total screw up by Caschetta. A horribly soft goal.

Gardiner plays well with the puck on his stick and a full head of steam. Defensively? That is a whole different story. He has yet to really understand the game well from that position. He still plays "defense" like a forward and I think it gets him caught out of position too much. It happened a handful of times against Edina the other day.

Aaron Ness is a much better two way player than Gardiner. It isn't even close when it comes to an overall game. Gardiner is certainly dangerous on offense but so is Ness. The main difference is Ness plays so intelligently on defense. Something Gardiner has yet to learn.

You thought he played that well? Personally, I did not. He didn't play badly but he was hardly dominating either. The first goal he scored was a total screw up by Caschetta. A horribly soft goal.

Gardiner plays well with the puck on his stick and a full head of steam. Defensively? That is a whole different story. He has yet to really understand the game well from that position. He still plays "defense" like a forward and I think it gets him caught out of position too much. It happened a handful of times against Edina the other day.

Aaron Ness is a much better two way player than Gardiner. It isn't even close when it comes to an overall game. Gardiner is certainly dangerous on offense but so is Ness. The main difference is Ness plays so intelligently on defense. Something Gardiner has yet to learn

Goldy, I love your site and admire your knowledge, but perhaps there is a little bit of a Gopher vs Badger bias here?? I know Ness is great, but Gardiner is surely better than you are saying. P.S i'm a Gopher fan

Gopher Blog wrote:

breakout wrote:Gardiner should win Mr. Hockey this year. His play in the recent game against Edina should put an explanation point on that.

You thought he played that well? Personally, I did not. He didn't play badly but he was hardly dominating either. The first goal he scored was a total screw up by Caschetta. A horribly soft goal.

Gardiner plays well with the puck on his stick and a full head of steam. Defensively? That is a whole different story. He has yet to really understand the game well from that position. He still plays "defense" like a forward and I think it gets him caught out of position too much. It happened a handful of times against Edina the other day.

Aaron Ness is a much better two way player than Gardiner. It isn't even close when it comes to an overall game. Gardiner is certainly dangerous on offense but so is Ness. The main difference is Ness plays so intelligently on defense. Something Gardiner has yet to learn.

I have watched Ness several times. He cheats up the ice to get in the offense a ton. Oliver is smart enough to allow him that luxury and makes sure his best player has back up. Ness is not a D first kid.

Give Oliver Kudos for leveraging his talent. Keep in mind, Roseau has better talent overall than Tonka as well.

saintpaulhockey wrote:Goldy, I love your site and admire your knowledge, but perhaps there is a little bit of a Gopher vs Badger bias here?? I know Ness is great, but Gardiner is surely better than you are saying. P.S i'm a Gopher fan

If it was bias, why did I pick Ryan McDonagh to win Mr. Hockey last year? He was a Badger recruit and I picked him at that time to win. Check the archives on my blog and you'll see it.

I realize it is easy to simply accuse me of bias when giving an opinion in this case but it just my opinion regardless of what school each guy is going to in the future.

I respect that.

breakout wrote:I have watched Ness several times. He cheats up the ice to get in the offense a ton. Oliver is smart enough to allow him that luxury and makes sure his best player has back up. Ness is not a D first kid.

I didn't say he was a "D first" kid. What I said is he is clearly a better defensive player. He thinks the game much better and he is smarter about when to push the puck and when he should back off. Gardiner hasn't figured that out as well as he seems to get caught in bad spots too often.

By the way, you'll be seeing Ness playing with the USA Team at World Jrs. in April.

Gopher Blog wrote:

breakout wrote:I have watched Ness several times. He cheats up the ice to get in the offense a ton. Oliver is smart enough to allow him that luxury and makes sure his best player has back up. Ness is not a D first kid.

I didn't say he was a "D first" kid. What I said is he is clearly a better defensive player. He thinks the game much better and he is smarter about when to push the puck and when he should back off. Gardiner hasn't figured that out as well as he seems to get caught in bad spots too often.

By the way, you'll be seeing Ness playing with the USA Team at World Jrs. in April.

Is Gardiner rated higher by NHL Central scouting?

I think Ness is very talented, but has had the benefit of exhuberant hype. Hopefully I will be proven wrong. I will him great success.

breakout wrote:Is Gardiner rated higher by NHL Central scouting?

I think Ness is very talented, but has had the benefit of exhuberant hype. Hopefully I will be proven wrong. I will him great success.

Depends on the scouting service. Central Scouting had him higher in the midterms but ISS had Ness higher in their latest rankings. Besides, the draft is on pro potential, not who is better at the time. If Ness were the same height as Gardiner, he'd probably be a top 10 pick. We all know how much the NHL underestimates guys who aren't 6 feet or taller. Especially on defense.

All I know is when I hear guys who have been around the game for years say that Ness might think the game better than anybody they have seen in years in the MN HS ranks, it tells me he is special. Hype? Maybe. But well earned hype. As I said, he is getting a spot on the national team to represent the country which is something they don't hand out to just anybody.

gopher..since when did the world jrs get switched to april? seems like it always starts after xmas.

oh and one more ? lets say say ness was committed to UND and gardiner to the U.
would you be posting the same comments?

hwkfan wrote:gopher..since when did the world jrs get switched to april? seems like it always starts after xmas.

World U18 tourney is in April. World U20 Tourney (the one you are talking about) is in December/January.

hwkfan wrote:oh and one more ? lets say say ness was committed to UND and gardiner to the U.
would you be posting the same comments?

Like I said, I picked Ryan McDonagh to win Mr. Hockey last year. There were four Gopher recruits last year up for the award and I picked a Badger recruit. That should tell you I am not letting where they go to college get in the way of an honest opinion. If it were "bias" (as you seem to be alluding to), I wouldn't have picked a Badger recruit last year over four Gopher recruits, would I?

you can say you picked mcdonough but he was probably the favorite anyway.
your comments about gardiners game basically have him as an avg or above avg high school player. i wonder if you would like him better as a player if were committed to the U.
The tourney in april is referred to at the "18's" while the world jrs as you called it earlier is in dec and is for jr aged players (20 and U). Ness wasnt or hasnt been on the world jr roster. maybe he would have been "if" he was over 6' like you said. but thats a big if.

hwkfan wrote:you can say you picked mcdonough but he was probably the favorite anyway.
your comments about gardiners game basically have him as an avg or above avg high school player. i wonder if you would like him better as a player if were committed to the U.
The tourney in april is referred to at the "18's" while the world jrs as you called it earlier is in dec and is for jr aged players (20 and U). Ness wasnt or hasnt been on the world jr roster. maybe he would have been "if" he was over 6' like you said. but thats a big if.

What difference does it make if McDonagh was the favorite or not? I still picked him over other guys that were going to the Gophers so whining about bias doesn't hold water. Most people seem to think Ness is the favorite this year.

Seems to me you just want to automatically assume my opinion has something to do with where a guy is going to college. Sorry to disappoint you but it has nothing to do with their future college.

As for me calling Gardiner "average", you are putting words in my mouth. I said he was a very good player. Especially offensively. However, I think what makes Ness the better player is he is good on both ends of the rink. Something I don't think Gardiner is as good at to this point.

Call the U18 tourney by whatever term you wish, it is simply splitting hairs on your part. Whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change the fact Ness was asked to join the team and USA Hockey generally only asks one or two guys outside of the NTDP to join the squad for the tourney every year (such as McDonagh and Patrick White last year). So that should tell you how highly they think of Ness.... and they don't care where he is going to college either.

am i putting words in your mouth?
I have seen him 5 or 6 times this yr and thought he dominated: You said you did not think he played well and was "hardly dominating"
listed his goal as a "total screw up" by the goalie. kinda like the other guys on here who said some stuff to the effect of 'i dont think the goalie knew he would even shoot'. would it have been a better play to get over the blue, t one up, and let the goalie make a routine glove save? sometimes goals happen by throwing the puck on net. was it soft? yes. if a gopher recruit would have scored, would you have labeled it horribly soft. sometimes soft goals go in because the goalie doesnt anticipate or see them.
you called his play 'well' with the the puck on his stick and a full head of steam. defensively you you said he plays like a forward and doesnt understand the game. along with not learning so far how to play intelligently on defense.
I wonder if these pro scouts who pile in to see gardiner see the game the way you see it. its his first season playting d and he hardly leaves the ice playing possibly the toughest schedule in the state. funny thing is tonka doesnt have the goaltending (or the overall talent) of an edina or roseau but gives up very few goals.

Judging from your past posting history on this board, it would appear you like to pimp up Gardiner. Which makes it rather ironic that you like to accuse others of favoritism. It wouldn't shock me if you were a Minnetonka resident or student.

Pro scouts judge players based on how they project down the road. Gardiner does have good physical tools to work with and he could very well blossom into an excellent player down the road on the pro level. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing the present day. In the present day, Ness is a better overall player. Offensively, they are pretty close to a wash. Defensively? Ness wins that in a landslide.

If it makes you feel any better, I am sure Gardiner will get a handle on the defensive side of the game in due time at UW. Then you can be proud you defended him.

oh, i thought this was a scouting report thread. you seem to make it another ness/gardiner thread and pimp a gopher recruit.
you should join the ness/roseau propaganda club on here. i just wonder if your vision of gardiner would be different if he were on the rams and committed to the U of M next yr. thats what i was getting at. it would be fun to go back and create a profile of gardiner based on what ness-lovers have said about him. i know after the edina game 1 a roseau guy said he wasnt a very good skater without that good of hands. couple that with your unintelligent play post and the rest of the ness lovers comments and we could probably build a description of the worst player to ever play hs hockey in mn. i just think some people take it offensively that gardiner is mentioned in the same breath as ness given he has played d for less than a season. along with that hes from the cities and doesnt play for a team with 143 state championship banners hanging up. based on his age is actually in his second season removed from being a bantam forward. oh and he did dominate the U17 festival as a dman after playing d for a month or so. i watched the first game on fsn where budish steps out on his forehand on the PP (maybe the best forward in the state), gardiner goes to get his stick flat to try to force a bad pass or intercept but budish makes the pass to everson (best pure goal scorer in the state; along with budish maybe the best duo in the state) and he one-times one home. it was awfully interesting how the roseau people had no comment on a nice play with a nice finish but were posting within hrs of how gardiner got burned. bias...yes.
back to scouting...i am not sure he plays "with a full head of steam". mtka is a good skating team and plays a lot of fast teams. you could say he plays in a lot of fast paced games (maybe if they played the SC tech orange cones he would have his very own youtube clip but they don't) i dont think a lot of his teamates can even keep up. if you have watched him, he can beat guys going at 1/4 speed with a head fake and on his soft goal the other day, went outside on gleason with his feet set at the blue line, so he basically coasted in. I have seen him 3 or 4 times this yr beat d wide with out even turning his feet over. maybe ness wins the defensive battle in a landslide, but then again he hasnt had to deal with budish and everson in a 2-1 situation.