Bantam A Playoffs District 6 (Predictions and Updates)

[O-townClown]

The kids knew the situation and the goalie was pulled for the last 1:50 of the final overtime, they just couldn't put one in.

I'm not arguing against what happened I just think it's a stupid rule. The higher seeds got the benefit of playing a lower seed in the opening round, why should they get another benefit on top of that, especially after they've already lost a game and are fighting their way through the losers' bracket.

RF, there's another thread on this where some thoughts are posted. Someone said what happened was 'unfair'. How can it be unfair if that is the agreed upon way of settling a tie?

If these kids are really having as hard a time as you say understanding why their season is over they need to take a look at their own efforts. They were seeded 6th for the District tournament by virtue of a 7-9 record.

They beat 7th seeded Chaska 3-1 in their first tournament game. Minnetonka then beat them 4-0 before they played a great game against Edina.

Days after the fact these kids are really wondering why Edina (14-1-1), Eden Prairie (14-1-1), and Burnsville (13-3) are still playing and they're not?

You'll see I'm on record for being okay with a change, but I hardly think there's a problem if they leave it as is. I've asked the question a few times and haven't been given an answer. How often does this occur? How many games have gone three overtimes and were settled by the "highest seed" tiebreaker?

I can't imagine this is very likely.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

District 6 should only be concerned that the top three teams are going to the regionals, and I believe they are. The 3 teams going also are the same three that finished in the top 3 in the final season standings. Mission acomplished. Good job district 6.

[MNhockey223]

there is no one to blame here besides who ever made the rule

[RFFalcon22]

Obviously you guys aren't too interested in the kids. I don't disagree that the three better teams moved on, Eden Prairie, Edina, and Burnsville are great teams, I just feel it should resemble an actual play-off. The higher seeds get the benefit of playing lower seeds in the opening game after that every team should have to earn their way through the bracket. I'm not saying there's an easy way to do this, but there has to be a "better" way.

As for your question about how often this happens, I would say it happens maybe once a year, or at least once every other year.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

Ya, I heard we have this current playoff format because district 6 doesn't care about the kids. How can district 6 be so insensitive. I think district 3 cares much more about the kids.

[RFFalcon22]

I didn't say District 6 doesn't care about the kids...I said you don't (except for the kids on the top teams in the District). We already know that you like the higher seed rule...we'll see how you like it once the shoe is on the other foot.

[O-townClown]

I didn't say District 6 doesn't care about the kids...I said you don't (except for the kids on the top teams in the District). We already know that you like the higher seed rule...we'll see how you like it once the shoe is on the other foot.

RF, I'm on record for welcoming a change to a shootout after an OT or two. That is accepted, especially since people have seen it adopted by the NHL.

Now on to a discussion for whether it is 'fair'. Is it 'fair' that college football decides winners for tied games the way they do? Is it 'fair' that the coin toss means so much in the NHL? Is it 'fair' that World Cup soccer games and Olympic hockey games end in Shootout? Some people have said all of those aren't 'fair' so I don't think you'll ever have universal agreement as to what is 'fair'.

Regarding your 'other foot' comment. The #1 seed used to get a pass to Regionals. Now they don't. Why is that? Well, it could be since Eden Prairie are the usual league winners and they put it up to vote. While it is certainly 'fair' there weren't enough supporting votes from places like Chaska, Apple Valley, and Waconia to continue.

I'm certain this rule wasn't Edina's idea.

You seem pretty sympathetic to the Apple Valley kids. I love sports because they teach you life lessons. I'm sure they learned something here and I don't think it is that the Man is out to screw them.

I'm sorry they were caught up on the wrong side of this one, but can't bring myself to clamor for the injustices of keeping a below .500 team out of regions when their season highlight is a 3-3 tie.

This happens that often? And the rule hasn't been changed yet. Hmmmm.

[MNhockey223]

well they're highlight could have been knocking Edina out of the playoffs but this rule kept them from that

[O-townClown]

As for your question about how often this happens, I would say it happens maybe once a year, or at least once every other year.

I'm not seeing it. I check PWA, PWB1, Bantam A, and Bantam B1 results for the past few years on the D6 website and did not see another decided by highest seed. There were some 3OT games but all that I saw were decided by a score.

Interesting note. Minnetonka one year was a #1 seed and Edina was #3. Edina took them to three OTs before losing. Obviously 'Tonka was advancing with or without the goal, as long as they didn't let Edina score. SO.... if they changed the rule and went 2 OTs before going to shootout Edina could have won. I'm sure someone would have decried the SO as not the fairest way to decide a game.

Give me teams and dates. How often has this happened? Gotta be rare.

[O-townClown]

well they're highlight could have been knocking Edina out of the playoffs but this rule kept them from that

The rule, plus the fact they couldn't beat Edina. They had every chance.

[RFFalcon22]

Great points O-Town. I'm sure there are people on both sides of the "fair" examples you brought up; personally, I think the college football and the Olympics examples are pretty "fair," or at least the most "fair" option.

As for the other foot comment, I was stating that FRED might feel differently on this matter if he was on the opposite side of the higher seed ruling. I know that neither Edina nor any other team had a hand in that idea though...I know it is a league policy voted on and put in place by the league.

Just to clear things up, in no way am I arguing that Apple Valley should take Edina's place in regions or was held out of making regions due to this rule. They were a young team that went through a lot of "growing pains" this year. I just don't like seeing a team's season end because of a rule; when they had there goalie pulled I was actually hoping they'd either score or get scored on so the game would be decided by a goal instead of a rule.

I agree that sports can teach kids important life lessons and am sure they will take many things away from this.

[MNhockey223]

Im not sayin Apple Valley should take Edina's spot in regions at all...Im just sayin thats its dumb that AV season ended like that

[RFFalcon22]

O-Town...I'm not trying to argue with you, but I can't give you exact teams and dates. It's possible that some of the games decided in the 3rd OT were due to the fact the lower seeded team pulled their goalie to get a 4-on-3 advantage and got scored on. Without the rule they wouldn't have pulled their goalie and the outcome might have been different (it also might have been the same).

[O-townClown]

O-Town...I'm not trying to argue with you, but I can't give you exact teams and dates. It's possible that some of the games decided in the 3rd OT were due to the fact the lower seeded team pulled their goalie to get a 4-on-3 advantage and got scored on. Without the rule they wouldn't have pulled their goalie and the outcome might have been different (it also might have been the same).

Very good point. I hadn't considered that.

I don't want to be argumentative either, but we're talking about a last resort for a double-elimination tournament after teams have played a regular season. Let's keep that in perspective. This isn't how games are decided at state or even regions. As mentioned, D6 is very concerned with maintaining order. After the fact people can say all sorts of stuff but teams have a lot of control of their own destiny.

[RFFalcon22]

Very good point...it is a last resort. I'd still be more in favor of playing two overtimes and then having a shoot-out; just to give the game some "finality" or "closure," if you will.

It could be worse though...for some tournaments in broomball they do one 4-on-4 overtime followed by 4-on-4 or 3-on-3 without a goalie!

[Doglover]

I'm very impressed with all the comments on this thread regarding the district advancement rule. Excellent, respectful discussion - renews my faith in the board. Someone send it all to District 6 (is that the only district with this rule?) and let them discuss it further. Now, I agree it's a shame 3 teams can't advance out of the region, but which two will??? Thoughts/Predictions??

[MNhockey223]

I would say Eden Prarie will go to state along with whoever wins the Burnseville and Edina game...haha

[RFFalcon22]

I agree...I would say Eden Prairie will advance along with the Burnsville/Edina winner; those teams are very evenly matched and it should be a great regionals!