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ice29 wrote:

ghshockeyfan wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote: That is true but a win by 8 goals is the same as a win by 4 goals. I think the cutoff is 4. It might be 6 which would make sense since that would be a running time game regardless of the score all means the same thing.

Does QRF post the complete detail of its algorithm anymore? They did at one time but scaled details back I believe on the main page... but maybe the current detail is there deeper if you look enough...

Interesting thought: At one point a couple years back LPH posted the KRACH rankings at least once... =)

Last thought - I don't believe that any score control/differential related scenario can be used for G HS Hockey. NFL? NHL? maybe, but otherwise idk... Different coaches will handle being superior or inferior differently to the point which even if as few as 4 goals impacts rating due to differential this may skew the true ranking imho...

BTW the QRF list of teams isn't correct for # of A vs AA or even # of overall teams and some teams they list no longer exist etc.

Of course I'm biased towards KRACH... =)

I have always "flipped-the-coin" when it came to comparing KRACH to QRF Rankings. I now will only accept KRACH as a "most accurate" system to evaluate teams in Minnesota. Today in "A" QRF Fergus Falls LEAPED into 5th from 8th by defeating a "AA" team with a 48th ranking and a 90th SOS ranking - thats a 10.5 pt increase in one hockey game. I can't see this happening this late in the season with so many games played. I hope QRF will re-evaluate the #'s or it's just one of those sports anomolies .

I have nothing against Fergus Falls, a nice team and a great community and a ranking in the top 10 is exactly what you deserve. I am only questioning the QRF system not the Team. No insult intended.!

Good Luck to All Girl Hockey Players - it's almost Section Time.

FWIW new KRACH as of Midnight last night:

ghshockeyfan wrote:Updated 2-5-09 (see links above or below) but note the missing scores for recent dates - you can check by team or other dates but here's a general link:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/scorebo ... &sport=110

If you know a missing score or score correction send it to:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/email.php

ghshockeyfan wrote:Most recent KRACH rankings posted at:

OVERALL
http://www.bgoski.com/RANK_OA.htm
CLASS AA
http://www.bgoski.com/RANK_AA.htm
CLASS A
http://www.bgoski.com/RANK_A.htm
SECTION
http://www.bgoski.com/RANK_SEC.htm

SOS is at:
http://www.bgoski.com/SOS.htm

AA Lets Play Hockey Rank - Records from MGCHA - not sure these are right?
1 ROSEVILLE 23-1-1 (lost to Hopkins tied Woodbury)
2 Stillwater 21-4-0 (lost to Hill Murray, Edina, Roseville, Roseville)
3 Hopkins 18-3-2 (lost to Stillwater, Duluth, GRG, tied GRG, Edina)
4 Hill-Murray 21-3-0 (lost to Warroad, GRG, Edina)
5 Edina 14-6-5 (lost to Blake, Stillwater, Warroad, Hopkins, Roseville, Hill Murray, tied BSM, Centennial, R. Armstrong, Minnetonka, Hopkins)
6 Minnetonka 14-7-3
7 Centennial 16-3-3
8 Grand Rapids/Greenway 14-6-3
9 Duluth 17-4-3
10 Proctor/Hermantown 17-6-1
11 White Bear Lake
12 Eagan
13 Maple Grove
14 Bemidji
15 North Wright County
16 Blaine
17 Irondale
18 Benilde-St. Margaret’s
19 Cloquet
20 Mounds View

joehockey wrote:AA Lets Play Hockey Rank - Records from MGCHA - not sure these are right?
1 ROSEVILLE 23-1-1 (lost to Hopkins tied Woodbury)
2 Stillwater 21-4-0 (lost to Hill Murray, Edina, Roseville, Roseville)
3 Hopkins 18-3-2 (lost to Stillwater, Duluth, GRG, tied GRG, Edina)
4 Hill-Murray 21-3-0 (lost to Warroad, GRG, Edina)
5 Edina 14-6-5 (lost to Blake, Stillwater, Warroad, Hopkins, Roseville, Hill Murray, tied BSM, Centennial, R. Armstrong, Minnetonka, Hopkins)
6 Minnetonka 14-7-3
7 Centennial 16-3-3
8 Grand Rapids/Greenway 14-6-3
9 Duluth 17-4-3
10 Proctor/Hermantown 17-6-1
11 White Bear Lake
12 Eagan
13 Maple Grove
14 Bemidji
15 North Wright County
16 Blaine
17 Irondale
18 Benilde-St. Margaret’s
19 Cloquet
20 Mounds View

What I find interesting is that LPH & KRACH match exactly through the top 9AA spots:

RK TEAM RECORD RATING
1 Roseville 22-1-1 988.927
2 Stillwater Area 21-3-0 582.346
3 Hopkins 19-3-0 581.166
4 Hill-Murray 20-3-0 496.884
5 Edina 14-6-4 326.435
6 Minnetonka 14-6-3 219.417
7 Centennial 17-3-3 216.769
8 Grand Rapids/Greenway 14-7-2 195.157
9 Duluth Area 15-4-3 148.875
10 Bemidji 17-5-1 130.074
11 Maple Grove 18-6-0 122.795
12 North Wright County 21-2-0 109.373
13 Eagan 18-5-0 105.320
14 Cloquet/Esko/Carlton 13-8-1 94.433
15 Blaine 12-8-4 94.326
16 Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall 14-6-1 84.681
17 Benilde-St. Margaret's 15-5-2 77.082
18 White Bear Lake 14-9-1 73.798
19 Irondale 17-6-1 55.010
20 Eastview 14-7-2 51.623


Compare this to the QRF as of the 6th (includes the games from Thur the 5th remember though) and you see something quite different...

1 Hopkins (19-3-1) 126.0
2 Edina (14-6-5) 115.4
3 Roseville (22-1-1) 112.4
4 Stillwater Area (21-3-0) 110.6
5 Minnetonka (14-7-3) 109.5
6 Hill-Murray (20-3-0) 108.2
7 Grand Rapids/Greenway (14-7-2) 108.0
8 Eagan (19-5-0) 105.3
9 North Wright County (21-2-0) 103.2
10 Duluth Area (16-4-3) 97.7
11 Centennial (18-3-3) 96.4
12 Maple Grove (18-6-0) 94.7
13 Bemidji (17-6-1) 93.9
14 Shakopee (18-5-2) 86.2
15 Burnsville (15-7-2) 86.1
16 Holy Angels (15-8-0) 85.0
17 Eastview (14-8-2) 84.6
18 Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall (16-6-1) 84.3
19 Blaine (12-8-4) 83.3
20 Cloquet/Esko/Carlton (14-8-1) 82.8


Note that in BOTH QRF & KRACH they are unfairly punishing GRG and unfairly helping Hopkins as that "win" at ABRA in 3OT was really a tie by MSHSL standards - KRACH will correct for that in its rankings for late tonight for the first time and it will be interesting how much impact if any it has on its ranking for GRG, Hopkins, and everyone else as it indirectly impacts every other team from #1 to #124 by nature of the algorithm...

Note too that the KRACH records are ONLY vs MN opponents thru Wed night as entered in minnesota-scores.net.

Prep hockey ratings
Pioneer Press
Posted: 02/10/2009 12:01:00 AM CST

1. Roseville (22-1-1) — The team to beat in Class AA, the Raiders wrapped up a third consecutive Suburban East Conference title with another victory over Stillwater.

2. Hill-Murray (21-3-0) — The Pioneers are on a roll, earning the No. 2 seed behind Roseville in Section 4AA. A tough test to end the regular season comes tonight against Benilde-St. Margaret's.

3. Stillwater (21-4-0) — The No. 3 seed in Section 4AA, the Ponies open postseason play against Cretin-Derham Hall, the defending section champion.

4. Hopkins (20-3-1) — The Royals were 8-1-1 in their last 10 games of the regular season. Becky Kortum continues to impress with 34 goals and 25 assists.

5. Blake (23-2-0) — A three-game winning streak to end the season. The Bears might be the team to beat in Class A.

6. Breck (19-4-1) — Followed a big victory over Blake with a head-scratching tie against North Metro.

7. Eagan (20-5-0) — Won the Lake Conference title; went on a 19-1 goal-scoring spree in last three games.

8. Centennial (19-3-3) — Winners of the Northwest Suburban Conference, the Cougars finished the regular season with seven consecutive victories.

9. Edina (14-6-5) — Tie with Hopkins could signal a postseason surge.

10. Irondale (17-6-1) — Climbed back into the rankings with a 2-1 revenge victory over Benilde-St. Margaret's. The Knights are on a seven-game spree.

WHO'S HOT

Lisa Berreman, Eagan, D, sr. — Had two goals and two assists to fuel the Wildcats' 7-0 victory over Apple Valley.

Meghan Lorence, Irondale, F, soph. — Had a hat trick in the Knights' 8-0 victory over Chisago Lakes. She also recorded the 200th point of her career in the game.

Krystal Bauman, Farmington, F, soph. — Her goal 47 seconds into overtime gave the Tigers a 4-3 victory over Northfield in the Missota Conference.

— Tim Leighton

Star Tribune - 02/12/09
STATE POLLS
By Let's Play Hockey

Class 2A:
1. Roseville (8)
2. Stillwater
3. Hopkins
4. Edina
5. Hill-Murray
6. Minnetonka
7. Centennial
8. Grand Rapids/Greenway
9. Duluth
10. Eagan
11. Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall
12. White Bear Lake
13. Bemidji
14. Irondale
15. Benilde-St. Margaret's

Class 1A:
1. Breck (6)
2. Blake (1)
3. Warroad (1)
4. Roseau
5. Crookston/Red Lake Falls
6. Silver Bay/Two Harbors
7. Mound Westonka
8. South St. Paul
9. Mankato West
10. Fergus Falls
11. Northfield
12. East Grand Forks
13. Henry Sibley
14. Orono
15. New Ulm.

This is only the Overall version - class, section, sos coming later...

Thru 2/10 including all regular season games:

http://www.bgoski.com/RANK_OA.htm

If you want to compare to KRACH the final regular season QRF rankings are also out: http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 10&class=3

They have separate rankings for AA and A but not combined.

MNHockeyFan wrote:If you want to compare to KRACH the final regular season QRF rankings are also out: http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 10&class=3

They have separate rankings for AA and A but not combined.

Some things to note about QRF:

1) They don't have some scores right as in the Hopkins/GRG game at ABRA so that skews things. So... as KRACH accounts for things like this you can't compare the ranking method as input data is not the same.

2) They also throw out non-mn games for ranking purposes but do list them in the records.

3) Not sure on the date of this QRF but if any play-in or prelim playoff games were played they may be counted in the ranking whereas the KRACH above intentionally only looked at Reg Season. Will prob run KRACH 2x more, end of sections and end of state...

4) You can't combine A & AA QRF into one list and sort by rating value to get a composite state rank - the ratings are not on the same scale or weighted the same for A vs AA.

ghshockeyfan wrote:

MNHockeyFan wrote:If you want to compare to KRACH the final regular season QRF rankings are also out: http://www.minnesota-scores.net/classqr ... 10&class=3

They have separate rankings for AA and A but not combined.

Some things to note about QRF:

1) They don't have some scores right as in the Hopkins/GRG game at ABRA so that skews things. So... as KRACH accounts for things like this you can't compare the ranking method as input data is not the same.

2) They also throw out non-mn games for ranking purposes but do list them in the records.

3) Not sure on the date of this QRF but if any play-in or prelim playoff games were played they may be counted in the ranking whereas the KRACH above intentionally only looked at Reg Season. Will prob run KRACH 2x more, end of sections and end of state...

4) You can't combine A & AA QRF into one list and sort by rating value to get a composite state rank - the ratings are not on the same scale or weighted the same for A vs AA.

ghs, thanks for clarifying. With the lack of attention to some important detail on the input side, I guess you have to look at the output with some degree of skepticism.

Star Tribune 2/19/09
HOCKEY • GIRLS
Provided by Lets' Play Hockey

Class 2A
1. Roseville
2. Stillwater
3. Hopkins
4. Edina
5. Minnetonka
6. Centennial
7. Hill-Murray
8. Proctor/Hermantown/Marshall School
9. Eagan
10. Blaine
11. Grand Rapids/Greenway
12. Duluth
13. Irondale
14. Cloquet
15. Maple Grove

Class 1A
1. Breck
2. Blake
3. Warroad
4. Roseau
5. Crookston/Red Lake Falls
6. Silver Bay/Two Harbors
7. Mound Westonka
8. Mankato West
9. South St. Paul
10. Fergus Falls
11. Northfield
12. East Grand Forks
13. New Ulm
14. Red Wing
15. Orono

Final LPH rankings:
March 5, 2009

Class AA
1 STILLWATER
2 Hopkins
3 Edina
4 Roseville
5 Irondale
6 Eagan
7 Minnetonka
8 Cloquet
9 Centennial
10 Hill-Murray
11 Proctor/Hermantown
12 Elk River
13 Mounds View
14 Blaine
15 Grand Rapids/Greenway
16 Duluth
17 Maple Grove
18 White Bear Lake
19 Lakeville South
20 Benilde-St. Margaret’s

Class A
1 BLAKE
2 Warroad
3 Breck
4 Roseau
5 Fergus Falls
6 Crookston/Red Lake
7 Silver Bay/
Two Harbors
8 Red Wing
9 Mound Westonka
10 Mankato West
11 New Ulm
12 South St. Paul
13 Northfield
14 Eveleth-Gilbert
15 Mahtomedi
16 Hutchinson
17 East Grand Forks
18 Orono
19 Visitation/SPA United
20 Alexandria