HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Oh and as far as conferences go, I think they are a complete waist of time and screw up the scheduling process by forcing good teams to play bad ones because of conference affiliations. Especially when the conference's rules are enforced because the school plays in that conference in other sports.

State Champ 97 wrote:Oh and as far as conferences go, I think they are a complete waist of time and screw up the scheduling process by forcing good teams to play bad ones because of conference affiliations. Especially when the conference's rules are enforced because the school plays in that conference in other sports.

Agreed, we are operating on an archaic system that needs to be updated, and made relevant.

My understanding is that part of the reason for conferences is to ensure opponents instead of a free-for-all each season. Meaning, that when you may have had an AD that may not have even been full time scheduling for every sport vs coaches doing so this helped a lot. Granted that was years ago, and that part has changed greatly, but flexibility within a normal conf schedule may be better. SSP did this with G Hockey in the Classic Sub a few years back and it worked out fine. I think some Lake Conf G Hockey teams played a modified conf schedule as well when EP was so strong and some other teams were not as competitive. Some called these setups a "powerized" or "modified" conf schedule. Those scenarios are probably better than an amazingly strong conf. team coming in and not even having competiton and beating teams by two or three touchdowns (classless too by the way).

The North Suburban used to do this also where the teams expected to finish in the top half played each other twice, but they would play the teams expected to be in the bottom-half only once. This left more games to schedule against stronger competition outside of the conference. This seemed to work very well but for some reason they stopped doing it.

Makes sense to me... Speaking of Conferences:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/pre ... e-schools/

MSHSL requires conf. placement...

They do? What about all of the teams that are labled as Independents?

State Champ 97 wrote:They do? What about all of the teams that are labled as Independents?

MSHSL requires Confer. Placement?

I would think that Conferences are independent of the MSHSL, they have the power to accept or reject any team. I agree they were orginally set-up so that teams in a given area or section would be require to play (schedule) at least 2 games with that area. Independents came along when Girls Hockey used the same alignment (conferences) as Boys. An example : Lake Superior Conf. in Boys there are 8 teams, including 2 Wisc. teams. In Girls this Conf. has 4 teams, including 1 Wisc. team. The Lake Superior Conf. requires it's participants or members to offer and carry all H.S. competitive sports, which eliminates the smaller H.S. or combined schools in that area. Which in turn eliminates or reduces the # of games these smaller (competitive) schools don't have to look for. Being an Indep. in larger AA schools gives them the option to refuse to play against A competitive schools in their respective Area's of the state. The combining of larger schools in Girls AA and A also contributes to the larger # of Indep., less #'s of Conferences.
There is a need for at least 2 Conferences in N. Minnesota where travel time and expenses are a real issue. Schedule more games, start developing long term area rivals. Not just Out-state against Metro, in any class AA or A.

Good Luck to All Girls Hockey Teams !!!

PIONEER PRESS RANKINGS - GIRLS HOCKEY
Updated: 01/20/2009 10:40:20 AM CST1/20/08
— Tim Leighton

1. Roseville (17-1-1): Raiders have won eight in a row; Jenna Boss and Erika Allen are dandy one-two punch in goal.
2. Blake (16-1-0): The Bears are giving up one goal per game; tough nonconference test on Thursday against Wayzata.
3. Hopkins (15-2-0): Becky Kortum has fired 118 shots on goal this season; 25 have resulted in goals.
4. Edina (10-5-3): The Hornets are 5-0-1 in past six games.
5. Stillwater (16-3-0): Booted Minnetonka out of the rankings with 2-1 win at "Hockey Day in Minnesota."
6. Eagan (15-3-0): Wildcats are on a four-game spree; goalie Brooke Davidson is 9-1-0.
7. Centennial (11-2-3): Lost 3-2 to Blaine but still leads the Northwest Suburban Conference.
8. Hill-Murray (14-3-0): Winner of five consecutive; Hannah Brandt leads Pioneers with 13 goals, 14 assists.
9. Benilde-St. Margaret's (10-5-2): Grabbed North Suburban Conference lead with 2-0 victory over Irondale.
10. Breck (13-4-0): On the heels of Blake in the Tri-Metro Conference.

WHO'S HOT
Margot Fleming, Benilde-St. Margaret's, forward, senior: Scored five goals in the Red Knights' six-goal third-period blitz in a 6-0 victory over Spring Lake Park.

Prentice Basten, Buffalo, forward, freshman: Had three goals, including game-winner, and an assist to lift the Bison to a 4-3 overtime victory over Rogers.

Gina Zurbey, Spring Lake Park, forward, junior: Averages at least a point a game with 10 goals and eight assists in 18 games for the Panthers.

Laura Greene, Chisago Lakes, forward, senior: Her three assists propelled the Wildcats to a 6-1 victory over Robbinsdale Cooper in the North Suburban. Also had two assists in a 3-2 victory over Totino-Grace.

Bethany Brausen, Roseville, forward, junior: Helped send the top-ranked Raiders to an 8-1 victory over Forest Lake with two goals and an assist.

Lauren Zrust, Blaine, forward, senior: Had a hand in all three Bengals goals in a 3-2 overtime victory over Centennial, scoring two and assisting on the other.

BSM ranked 9th?? Honestly, what are they smoking at the Pioneer Press? Every ranking by the PP always has at least one oddity.

Not only that, but they took Minnetonka out because they lost by 1 goal to Stillwater?

ghshockeyfan wrote:Makes sense to me... Speaking of Conferences:

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/pre ... e-schools/

MSHSL requires conf. placement...

Maybe I should have said MSHSL places teams in conferences as needed? I dont' know - just going by what I've read...

Minnesota girls high school hockey rankings
Associated Press
Last update: January 29, 2009 - 7:58 AM
This week's Associated Press poll for Minnesota girls' high school hockey, provided by Let's Play Hockey newspaper. First-place votes are in parentheses.

Class 2A
1. Roseville <8>
2. Hopkins
3. Stillwater
4. Hill-Murray
5. Edina
6. Minnetonka
7. Centennial
8. Grand Rapids/Greenway
9. Proctor/Hermantown/Marshall School
10. Duluth
11. White Bear Lake
12. Bemidji
13. Maple Grove
14. Eagan
15. Irondale

Class 1A
1. Blake <8>
2. Breck
3. Warroad
4. Roseau
5. Crookston/Red Lake Falls
6. Mound Westonka
7. Silver Bay/Two Harbors
8. South St. Paul
9. Northfield
10. Mankato West
11. Fergus Falls
12. East Grand Forks
13. Henry Sibley
14. Orono
15. Visitation/SPA United

The full LPH rankings as of Januray 29:

HS GIRLS AA
1 ROSEVILLE
2 Hopkins
3 Stillwater
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 Minnetonka
7 Centennial
8 Grand Rapids/Greenway
9 Proctor/Hermantown
10 Duluth
11 White Bear Lake
12 Bemidji
13 Maple Grove
14 Eagan
15 Irondale
16 Blaine
17 North Wright County
18 Cloquet
19 Benilde-St. Margaret’s
20 Mounds View

HS GIRLS A
1 BLAKE
2 Breck
3 Warroad
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Mound Westonka
7 Silver Bay/
Two Harbors
8 South St. Paul
9 Northfield
10 Mankato West
11 Fergus Falls
12 East Grand Forks
13 Henry Sibley
14 Orono
15 Visitation/SPA United
16 New Ulm
17 Red Wing
18 Alexandria
19 St. Louis Park
20 Faribault

QRF Rankings: February 2, 2009

Class AA
1 Hopkins (19-2-0) 121.5
2 Stillwater Area (19-3-0) 108.4
3 Edina (13-6-3) 107.6
4 Minnetonka (14-6-2) 107.4
5 Roseville (21-1-1) 104.2
6 Grand Rapids/Greenway (13-7-2) 103.5
7 Hill-Murray (19-3-0) 100.8
8 Eagan (16-5-0) 95.4
9 Centennial (15-3-3) 93.8
10 Duluth Area (16-3-3) 92.9
11 North Wright County (20-2-0) 92.4
12 Maple Grove (18-5-0) 89.3
13 Bemidji (16-5-1) 85.6
14 Burnsville (12-7-2) 83.3
15 Shakopee (16-5-2) 82.6
16 Holy Angels (14-8-0) 82.2
17 Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall (16-6-1) 79.4
18 Eastview (13-7-2) 77.6
19 Blaine (12-8-3) 77.3
20 White Bear Lake (14-7-1) 76.4
21 Benilde-St. Margaret's (13-5-2) 75.8
22 Mounds View (12-10-2) 75.6
23 North St. Paul (14-8-1) 74.8
24 Cloquet/Esko/Carlton (12-8-1) 74.7
25 Farmington (14-8-1) 74.3
26 Buffalo (13-10-0) 73.6
27 Robbinsdale Armstrong (12-9-1) 73.0
28 Eden Prairie (12-11-0) 72.8
29 Lakeville North (15-6-1) 72.7
30 Champlin Park (13-10-0) 72.2
31 Rochester Mayo (15-6-0) 71.4
32 Irondale (16-6-1) 71.2
33 Elk River/Zimmerman (11-10-1) 67.8
34 Lakeville South (15-6-1) 67.6
35 North Metro (9-7-5) 64.3
36 Brainerd/Little Falls (9-11-2) 64.0
37 Owatonna (11-9-0) 63.2
38 Anoka (6-15-2) 63.1
39 Chaska (10-12-0) 62.4
40 Wayzata (6-15-1) 62.2
41 Moorhead (8-12-1) 62.1
42 Andover (6-12-4) 61.3
43 Hastings (6-13-4) 58.4
44 Park of Cottage Grove (7-14-2) 57.4
45 Rosemount (9-12-1) 57.0
T-46 River Lakes (13-8-2) 56.4
T-46 Cambridge-Isanti/Mora (10-9-3) 56.4
48 Sartell/Sauk Rapids (9-8-3) 56.2
49 St. Cloud Icebreakers (11-9-3) 55.8
T-50 Coon Rapids (5-14-3) 55.4
T-50 Woodbury (9-13-1) 55.4
52 Spring Lake Park (10-10-1) 53.8
53 Forest Lake (7-13-2) 52.4
54 St. Cloud Tech (6-13-1) 50.5
55 Dodge County (12-6-0) 50.0
56 Rogers (7-15-0) 47.1
57 Prior Lake (7-14-1) 46.8
58 Cretin-Derham Hall (5-18-0) 43.2
59 Apple Valley (4-15-2) 41.7
60 St. Francis (4-15-3) 40.9
61 Minneapolis (8-13-2) 40.8
62 Rochester John Marshall (5-14-0) 39.8
63 Bloomington Jefferson (6-16-0) 39.5
64 Winona (4-10-1) 38.1
65 Chisago Lakes Area (5-16-1) 37.4
66 Tartan (6-16-0) 32.5
67 Robbinsdale Cooper (3-19-0) 26.6
68 St. Paul Blades (2-21-0) 25.6
69 Bloomington Kennedy (0-20-1) 22.4
70 Rochester Century (2-17-0)

Class A
1 Warroad (22-2-0) 145.2
2 Roseau (18-5-0) 114.7
3 Breck (18-4-0) 108.8
4 Blake (20-2-0) 106.7
5 Crookston (16-6-0) 94.2
6 Silver Bay/Two Harbors/Cook County (16-4-2) 90.6
7 Mankato West (18-3-0) 90.1
8 Fergus Falls (12-6-3) 89.6
9 Mound-Westonka (17-5-1) 89.2
10 New Ulm (14-4-2) 86.6
11 South St. Paul (17-6-0) 84.0
12 Red Wing (12-10-1) 80.5
T-13 Orono (14-9-0) 74.4
T-13 Hutchinson (10-11-1) 74.4
15 Northfield (14-7-0) 73.6
16 Alexandria (10-11-0) 73.1
17 Henry Sibley (11-10-1) 69.7
18 Faribault (12-9-1) 68.1
19 East Grand Forks (16-7-0) 67.8
20 Hibbing/Chisholm (4-17-2) 63.1
21 Morris/Benson Area (17-4-0) 58.8
22 Willmar (7-16-0) 57.9
23 Eveleth-Gilbert (13-8-2) 57.2
24 Mahtomedi (4-15-3) 57.1
25 Austin (7-9-3) 56.7
26 Albert Lea (9-13-0) 56.2
27 Totino-Grace (9-14-0) 55.7
T-28 St. Louis Park (10-12-0) 55.3
T-28 Minnehaha (13-7-1) 55.3
30 St. Paul United (10-8-3) 53.2
31 New Prague (4-17-2) 51.7
32 Princeton (8-13-1) 51.4
33 L-H/St. Peter/Montgomery (12-10-0) 48.2
34 International Falls (7-15-1) 48.0
35 Richfield (7-14-2) 46.7
36 Thief River Falls (7-12-1) 45.9
37 Lake of the Woods (1-15-1) 45.3
38 Windom Area (11-9-0) 44.7
39 Simley (5-17-1) 43.4
40 Luverne (9-12-0) 41.0
41 Park Rapids/Menahga/Nevis (7-11-0) 39.3
42 Litchfield/D-C (3-19-0) 38.6
43 Fairmont (7-7-0) 38.5
44 Marshall (8-13-0) 38.1
45 Moose Lake Area (6-16-1) 37.9
46 East Range (9-11-1) 37.2
47 Detroit Lakes (4-17-1) 35.4
48 Long Prairie-Grey Eagle/Wadena-Deer Creek (3-16-1) 26.5
49 Mankato East (3-18-0) 24.8
50 Waseca (4-15-0) 20.2
51 Worthington (0-18-0) 18.5
52 Redwood Valley (2-10-0) 11.8

I've noticed that the KRACH rankings closely resemble the LPH poll (which is the only one that uses eyewitness observation and common sense). But the QRF is really whacked. The formula for success in QRF seems to be: it doesn't matter if you win or lose, just keep the losses close, and when you win against an inferior opponent, really POUR IT ON!

Bensonmum wrote:I've noticed that the KRACH rankings closely resemble the LPH poll (which is the only one that uses eyewitness observation and common sense). But the QRF is really whacked. The formula for success in QRF seems to be: it doesn't matter if you win or lose, just keep the losses close, and when you win against an inferior opponent, really POUR IT ON!

That is true but a win by 8 goals is the same as a win by 4 goals. I think the cutoff is 4. It might be 6 which would make sense since that would be a running time game regardless of the score all means the same thing.

State Champ 97 wrote:

Bensonmum wrote:I've noticed that the KRACH rankings closely resemble the LPH poll (which is the only one that uses eyewitness observation and common sense). But the QRF is really whacked. The formula for success in QRF seems to be: it doesn't matter if you win or lose, just keep the losses close, and when you win against an inferior opponent, really POUR IT ON!

That is true but a win by 8 goals is the same as a win by 4 goals. I think the cutoff is 4. It might be 6 which would make sense since that would be a running time game regardless of the score all means the same thing.

Does QRF post the complete detail of its algorithm anymore? They did at one time but scaled details back I believe on the main page... but maybe the current detail is there deeper if you look enough...

Interesting thought: At one point a couple years back LPH posted the KRACH rankings at least once... =)

Last thought - I don't believe that any score control/differential related scenario can be used for G HS Hockey. NFL? NHL? maybe, but otherwise idk... Different coaches will handle being superior or inferior differently to the point which even if as few as 4 goals impacts rating due to differential this may skew the true ranking imho...

BTW the QRF list of teams isn't correct for # of A vs AA or even # of overall teams and some teams they list no longer exist etc.

Of course I'm biased towards KRACH... =)

This week in high school hockey
Pioneer Press

Posted: 02/03/2009 12:01:00 AM CST


1. Roseville (21-1-1): Can wrap up the Suburban East Conference title this week with wins over Hastings and No. 3 Stillwater.

2. Hill-Murray (19-3): Can clinch the Classic Suburban Conference championship tonight against South St. Paul.

3. Stillwater (19-3): Win streak is at seven; goalie Marah Sobczak has a 0.934 save percentage.

4. Hopkins (19-2): Coming off a nonconference loss to outstate power Grand Rapids/Greenway; Edina and Minnetonka on tap this week.

5. Breck (18-4): Pushed win streak to nine with a 4-3 victory over Blake in the Tri-Metro Conference.

6. Blake (20-2): Eight-game streak snapped by Breck; three games this week to end regular season.

7. Eagan (16-5-2): Holds a two-game lead in the Lake Conference; can clinch with a victory over Eastview on Thursday.

8. Centennial (15-3-3): 6-1 in its past seven; marquee game Saturday at Maple Grove for the Northwest Suburban title.

9. Edina (13-6-3): Don't let the number of losses fool you. The Hornets play tough and have big victories to their credit.

10. Benilde-St. Margaret's (13-5-2): Late-season run is up to seven wins; lead Irondale by one game in the North Suburban.

Who is Hot:

Kayla Capistrant, Roseville, F, jr.: Had three goals and an assist to power the top-ranked Raiders to a 4-0 victory over Woodbury, a team it tied earlier in the season.

Hannah Alexander, Farmington, C, soph.: Accounted for three goals in the Tigers' 4-1 victory over Red Wing in a Missota Conference game.

Emily Kleidon, Breck, F, jr.: Her two goals helped fuel the Mustangs' 4-3 upset over previously ranked No. 2 Blake last week in a battle for the Tri-Metro lead. Has 11 goals and 10 assists.

Corinne Buie, Edina, F, jr.: Had two goals and an assist in the Hornets' 5-1 victory over Robbinsdale Armstrong in the Classic Lake.

Lauren Barnes, Burnsville, F, jr.: Her goal midway through the third period lifted the Blaze to a 2-1 victory over Eastview in the Lake Conference.

Sam LaShomb, South St. Paul, D, fresh.: Had a goal and three assists in the Packers' 7-1 victory over Henry Sibley in the Classic Suburban.

Star Tribune 2/5/09

Class 2A
1. Roseville
2. Stillwater
3. Hopkins
4. Hill-Murray
5. Edina
6. Minnetonka
7. Centennial
8. Grand Rapids/Greenway
9. Duluth
10. Proctor/Hermantown/Duluth Marshall
11. White Bear Lake
12. Eagan
13. Maple Grove
14. Bemidji
15. North Wright County.

Class 1A
1. Breck
2. Blake
3. Warroad
4. Roseau
5. Crookston/Red Lake Falls
6. Silver Bay/Two Harbors
7. Mound Westonka
8. South St. Paul
9. Mankato West
10. East Grand Forks
11. Northfield
12. Fergus Falls
13. Henry Sibley
14. Orono
15. New Ulm.

Just assuming this came from LPH...but I think they got it right on. Except for possibly Warroad being higher...but I can live with it.

hockeyheaven wrote:Just assuming this came from LPH...but I think they got it right on. Except for possibly Warroad being higher...but I can live with it.

I believe the Star Tribune always gets their polls from LPH, but for some reason they didn't say that today.

Also for some reason they always leave out the teams ranked from 16-20 in each class...not sure why they don't just use the entire lists from LPH.

MNHockeyFan wrote:

hockeyheaven wrote:Just assuming this came from LPH...but I think they got it right on. Except for possibly Warroad being higher...but I can live with it.

I believe the Star Tribune always gets their polls from LPH, but for some reason they didn't say that today.

Also for some reason they always leave out the teams ranked from 16-20 in each class...not sure why they don't just use the entire lists from LPH.

What time does Lets Play Hockey get posted online...?

northshore guy wrote:

MNHockeyFan wrote:

hockeyheaven wrote:Just assuming this came from LPH...but I think they got it right on. Except for possibly Warroad being higher...but I can live with it.

I believe the Star Tribune always gets their polls from LPH, but for some reason they didn't say that today.

Also for some reason they always leave out the teams ranked from 16-20 in each class...not sure why they don't just use the entire lists from LPH.

What time does Lets Play Hockey get posted online...?

here it is




http://www.letsplayhockey.com/974rankings.pdf

AA
1 ROSEVILLE
2 Stillwater
3 Hopkins
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 M innetonka
7 Centennial
8 Grand Rapids/Greenway
9 Duluth
10 Proctor/Hermantown
11 White Bear Lake
12 Eagan
13 Maple Grove
14 Bemidji
15 North Wright County
16 Blaine
17 Irondale
18 Benilde-St. Margaret’s
19 Cloquet
20 Mounds View

A
1 BRECK
2 Blake
3 Warroad
4 Roseau
5 Crookston/Red Lake
6 Silver Bay/
Two Harbors
7 Mound Westonka
8 South St. Paul
9 Mankato West
10 East Grand Forks
11 Northfield
12 Fergus Falls
13 Henry Sibley
14 Orono
15 New Ulm
16 Visitation/SPA United
17 Red Wing
18 St. Louis Park
19 Hutchinson
20 Alexandria

MNHockeyFan wrote:

hockeyheaven wrote:Just assuming this came from LPH...but I think they got it right on. Except for possibly Warroad being higher...but I can live with it.

I believe the Star Tribune always gets their polls from LPH, but for some reason they didn't say that today.

Also for some reason they always leave out the teams ranked from 16-20 in each class...not sure why they don't just use the entire lists from LPH.

I think it used to be that Strib/PP had a "top 10" and then took 11-15 as "honorable mention" witout printing the order of 11-15. I always thought that this was the LPH way (only releasing the top 15) to still have people want to look at the actual hard copy edition. Plus I think this is why the ranking was moved from front inside to back page (or a later random page of the hard copy - to get people to look at the entire edition vs just the rankings in a known location each time...)

ghshockeyfan wrote:

State Champ 97 wrote:

Bensonmum wrote:I've noticed that the KRACH rankings closely resemble the LPH poll (which is the only one that uses eyewitness observation and common sense). But the QRF is really whacked. The formula for success in QRF seems to be: it doesn't matter if you win or lose, just keep the losses close, and when you win against an inferior opponent, really POUR IT ON!

That is true but a win by 8 goals is the same as a win by 4 goals. I think the cutoff is 4. It might be 6 which would make sense since that would be a running time game regardless of the score all means the same thing.

Does QRF post the complete detail of its algorithm anymore? They did at one time but scaled details back I believe on the main page... but maybe the current detail is there deeper if you look enough...

Interesting thought: At one point a couple years back LPH posted the KRACH rankings at least once... =)

Last thought - I don't believe that any score control/differential related scenario can be used for G HS Hockey. NFL? NHL? maybe, but otherwise idk... Different coaches will handle being superior or inferior differently to the point which even if as few as 4 goals impacts rating due to differential this may skew the true ranking imho...

BTW the QRF list of teams isn't correct for # of A vs AA or even # of overall teams and some teams they list no longer exist etc.

Of course I'm biased towards KRACH... =)

I have always "flipped-the-coin" when it came to comparing KRACH to QRF Rankings. I now will only accept KRACH as a "most accurate" system to evaluate teams in Minnesota. Today in "A" QRF Fergus Falls LEAPED into 5th from 8th by defeating a "AA" team with a 48th ranking and a 90th SOS ranking - thats a 10.5 pt increase in one hockey game. I can't see this happening this late in the season with so many games played. I hope QRF will re-evaluate the #'s or it's just one of those sports anomolies .

I have nothing against Fergus Falls, a nice team and a great community and a ranking in the top 10 is exactly what you deserve. I am only questioning the QRF system not the Team. No insult intended.!

Good Luck to All Girl Hockey Players - it's almost Section Time.