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High school hockey is subsidized by booster clubs, the state high school league, and the particular high school's athletic department. Youth hockey just doesn't have the same financial resources and the economic burden falls to the parents of the players.massalsa wrote: Why is youth hockey SO much more expensive than HS? The costs are not even including the overnight tournaments which adds a lot of cost to "hockey".
Instead of using the term "deep", lets use the term "ranked" teams. Of the ranked AA teams, 16 of the 20 teams have 3 or more players who are double-digits goals (10 of 20 had 4), and all 20 had at least 6 players with double-digit points. Looking at the top 10 in single-A, 8 of 10 teams have at 3 or more players with double-digit goals, and all had at least 6 with double-digit points.thegreatone99 wrote:I think you can look at your so called "deep teams" and see there is one or two players with all the goals and the rest are single digit points. And these two players always happen to be on the same line, easy to shut down if a coach implores the strategy.Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Not sure which teams you are watching "great one"... The best metro teams are deep as hell with multiple scoring threats on at least two line.
Stats don't lie
Today's Strib has an article on St. Paul's Highland Park, which is going in the opposite direction - great to see.greybeard58 wrote:The Jan. 31 Star Tribune devoted two and half pages to write the obituary of the Richfield High School hockey program (“Where hockey died”). In the state of hockey, this was deemed a tragedy, and the blame is placed on the changing socioeconomic status of the Richfield community. Similar tragedies are playing out in other communities that have a similar location within the metro area.
Would the boys section semis look like this?allhoc11 wrote:.
I will say it's sad that with a full slate of games tonight only 2 were 1 goal games. I think that is the picture for the next 2-4 years,
thegreatone99 wrote:Would the boys section semis look like this?allhoc11 wrote:.
I will say it's sad that with a full slate of games tonight only 2 were 1 goal games. I think that is the picture for the next 2-4 years,
Blake 8-2, shots 37-12, priceless, still playing A
Breck 6-2, shots 53-17, priceless, still playing A
Maple Grove, 5-0, shots 47-12, priceless
SPU 9-1, shots 39-7, priceless, still playing A
Tonka, 7-1, shots 43-12, priceless, at least Holy Family has moved up to AA
What a bunch of barn burners for semis.
76% - 13/17 games were won by 3+ more goals
12% - 2/17 games were won by 1 goal
the last two games were 2 goal games
These scores and lopsided shot totals show there is a lot of parity in today's game. And you wonder why there is apathy.
nu2hockey wrote:thegreatone99 wrote:Would the boys section semis look like this?allhoc11 wrote:.
I will say it's sad that with a full slate of games tonight only 2 were 1 goal games. I think that is the picture for the next 2-4 years,
Blake 8-2, shots 37-12, priceless, still playing A
Breck 6-2, shots 53-17, priceless, still playing A
Maple Grove, 5-0, shots 47-12, priceless
SPU 9-1, shots 39-7, priceless, still playing A
Tonka, 7-1, shots 43-12, priceless, at least Holy Family has moved up to AA
What a bunch of barn burners for semis.
76% - 13/17 games were won by 3+ more goals
12% - 2/17 games were won by 1 goal
the last two games were 2 goal games
These scores and lopsided shot totals show there is a lot of parity in today's game. And you wonder why there is apathy.
You must be the most clueless individual when it comes to girls hockey. At Sectional semis there are still 64 teams playing(32A and 32AA}. In girls hockey that represents over 50% of the teams still playing. The difference in play from the top and the rest has widened because more girls are deciding to be hockey players and not girls who play hockey. It is not many but it is enough to widen the gap. A couple of Associations get it ,but, most are failing to teach,train, and produce skilled players. The better teams and players should be examples you point to motivate your kids instead of crying a river. Go grow up, change your diaper, and work to improve yourself and your team or the gap will only get wider
I'm curious as to whether you and ItsFoilCoach feel SSP is a "true" class A team? Their roster currently has players recruited from at least 4 communities that aren't SSP. Shouldn't they grow a pair and play AA?thegreatone99 wrote:
Sounds like you are one of them and if that is the case, grow a pair and leave the "true" class A teams alone.
Preach!MN_Bowhunter wrote:I'm curious as to whether you and ItsFoilCoach feel SSP is a "true" class A team? Their roster currently has players recruited from at least 4 communities that aren't SSP. Shouldn't they grow a pair and play AA?thegreatone99 wrote:
Sounds like you are one of them and if that is the case, grow a pair and leave the "true" class A teams alone.
At the very least they should stop whining about privates recruiting. Pot, meet kettle.
itsfoilcoach wrote:I got the W? Sweet.Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Plenty of downtrodden outstate girls playing in every off season program you label elitist - including OS Made Blades Cats etc. Even those unfortunate Princeton girls. (sarcasm intended)
In your argument (always the same argument) you always leave out the exceptions to your "priceless" stats - namely the Warroad score last night. EGF?
WE GET IT. You hate B and B and all privates are ruining it for your child. WE GET IT.
Please keep posting only the facts that fit your argument and leave out/refuse to address those who prove you wrong. There is neither obvious nor apparent bias in your empirical analysis. You are just here for the good of the game as a whole and to lead the revolution.
Or ruining the board during the best time of the year.
One of these.[/quote
w
nu2hockey wrote:GreatOne - I have to agreed with NU2Hockey on this one. I finally got out last night to watch the games at STA, both SPU vs Sibley and SSP vs Maht. Must admit that this season I have spent most of my time scouting HS boys and Jr A teams, but I do have about 6 or 7 years of past experience running spring/summer/fall girls hockey development programs. With that said, the result of the SPU game was not surprising. Not going to sugar coat this, but the Sibley team was simply not a very good team. The prediction models were right on the mark, a goal differential of 8 goals matched the 9 - 1 score. Back to NU2Hockey's point, and that is in the girls game you rarely see parity in sectional games until the section finals, or if you have a 1st round game between a correctly seeded #5 & #6 seed.thegreatone99 wrote:allhoc11 wrote:.
SPU 9-1, shots 39-7, priceless, still playing A
.
You must be the most clueless individual when it comes to girls hockey......
Going forward ... Thurs SPU vs SSP game .. the prediction model say a 5 goal differential in favor of SPU. After watching SSP vs MAHT I have to say that I was impressed by the disciplined style of hockey that SSP played. My gut feeling says that SPU vs SSP is going to be much closer than what my computer program outputs. Going out on a limb here, but this could be a one goal game, if SSP plays the same style of game and keeps it close into the 3rd period. Lightning might strike again. Good luck to both teams.
Your better than this Bowhunter. (I think Bowhumter is off target. Rare, but off just the same) Man your myopic view of this issue surprise me a little. Your normally a deeper thinker than the two referenced below. Its not about where the kids come from, as much as how many top tier student athlete go to certain magnet schools... in the simplest way I can say this, opportunity, and student athlete growth is what the MSHSL is supposed to be promoting. I typed this slow for you in case you miss the target again.MN_Bowhunter wrote:I'm curious as to whether you and ItsFoilCoach feel SSP is a "true" class A team? Their roster currently has players recruited from at least 4 communities that aren't SSP. Shouldn't they grow a pair and play AA?thegreatone99 wrote:
Sounds like you are one of them and if that is the case, grow a pair and leave the "true" class A teams alone.
At the very least they should stop whining about privates recruiting. Pot, meet kettle.
lsqrank01 wrote:Sham on you bringing calmness and solid reasoning to these boards. We need more of this.nu2hockey wrote:GreatOne - I have to agreed with NU2Hockey on this one. I finally got out last night to watch the games at STA, both SPU vs Sibley and SSP vs Maht. Must admit that this season I have spent most of my time scouting HS boys and Jr A teams, but I do have about 6 or 7 years of past experience running spring/summer/fall girls hockey development programs. With that said, the result of the SPU game was not surprising. Not going to sugar coat this, but the Sibley team was simply not a very good team. The prediction models were right on the mark, a goal differential of 8 goals matched the 9 - 1 score. Back to NU2Hockey's point, and that is in the girls game you rarely see parity in sectional games until the section finals, or if you have a 1st round game between a correctly seeded #5 & #6 seed.thegreatone99 wrote:
You must be the most clueless individual when it comes to girls hockey......
Going forward ... Thurs SPU vs SSP game .. the prediction model say a 5 goal differential in favor of SPU. After watching SSP vs MAHT I have to say that I was impressed by the disciplined style of hockey that SSP played. My gut feeling says that SPU vs SSP is going to be much closer than what my computer program outputs. Going out on a limb here, but this could be a one goal game, if SSP plays the same style of game and keeps it close into the 3rd period. Lightning might strike again. Good luck to both teams.
Sometimes "life isn't fair" is the valuable lesson.itsfoilcoach wrote:
High school Mission statement -
The League exists to provide competitive,equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics.
Its not personal. But everyone makes it that way. Its about the future of the game, and how to sustain it. MSHSL is doing a terrible job managing it.
Agreed. If a high school player is going to quit hockey, or a youth player is going to quit hockey because down the road, a private school may "rob" said player of a trip to the state tournament, well then maybe we should just usher every team into the state tournament.MN_Bowhunter wrote:Sometimes "life isn't fair" is the valuable lesson.itsfoilcoach wrote:
High school Mission statement -
The League exists to provide competitive,equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics.
Its not personal. But everyone makes it that way. Its about the future of the game, and how to sustain it. MSHSL is doing a terrible job managing it.
/thread
MN_Bowhunter wrote:Life isn't fair. It's true, and you still have to deal with it. Whining about it on these boards rarely levels the playing field, but learning and listening you can rise above it. That's is the ultimate reward that may produce change.itsfoilcoach wrote:
High school Mission statement -
The League exists to provide competitive,equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics.
Its not personal. But everyone makes it that way. Its about the future of the game, and how to sustain it. MSHSL is doing a terrible job managing it.[/quot
Sometimes "life isn't fair"ead
zooomx wrote:Agreed. If a high school player is going to quit hockey, or a youth player is going to quit hockey because down the road, a private school may "rob" said player of a trip to the state tournament, well then maybe we should just usher every team into the state tournament.MN_Bowhunter wrote:Sometimes "life isn't fair" is the valuable lesson.itsfoilcoach wrote:
High school Mission statement -
The League exists to provide competitive,equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics.
Its not personal. But everyone makes it that way. Its about the future of the game, and how to sustain it. MSHSL is doing a terrible job managing it.
/thread
Seriously!! You still think it's about winning. Maybe you couldn't see through my sarcasm. But my god, it's not about winning state, or Suzy getting Ms Hockey. It's about improving the game itself. For instance. Some people think this sport doesn't deserve to be included in hockey day in Minesota. There is a problem with respect when it comes to girls hockey out side of our world of hockey, and that is concerning....over all quality of play is one of those that won't hold the public interest...That's why the girls program was somewhat over looked. Yup it's about the road to state and winning. I think I just had an aneurysm.
#Short bus zooomx
itsfoilcoach wrote:Ok, so I thought maybe I missed something, and I read all 7 pages of this topic again. I think I had an "aneurysm" myself. See, we can spell on the short bus.zooomx wrote:Agreed. If a high school player is going to quit hockey, or a youth player is going to quit hockey because down the road, a private school may "rob" said player of a trip to the state tournament, well then maybe we should just usher every team into the state tournament.MN_Bowhunter wrote: Sometimes "life isn't fair" is the valuable lesson.
/thread
Seriously!! You still think it's about winning. Maybe you couldn't see through my sarcasm. But my god, it's not about winning state, or Suzy getting Ms Hockey. It's about improving the game itself. For instance. Some people think this sport doesn't deserve to be included in hockey day in Minesota. There is a problem with respect when it comes to girls hockey out side of our world of hockey, and that is concerning....over all quality of play is one of those that won't hold the public interest...That's why the girls program was somewhat over looked. Yup it's about the road to state and winning. I think I just had a anariism.
#Short bus zooomx
Again, reading through all of your comments I don't see much in terms of how to positively impact and grow the game. Not much in terms of solutions. A lot of complaining about privates, and recruiting, etc.
I share some of your frustrations, but I am not going to go on a forum and blast everyone else. I have done a lot of heavy lifting to improve my local program and to help drive positive change in the game in other out state areas too. I have spent time with some MN hockey leaders who are very open to ideas and have taken feedback from our group to the state level.
The real issue here is that we are at a crossroads, and it starts at the bottom of the pyramid. There are many communities that have weak girls numbers for no explainable reason other than apathy. There is tremendous growth potential still out there for girls hockey. Then we go to the middle of the pyramid, and co-ops at the youth level are negatively impacting numbers for U10/U12. Because we have not harnessed the full growth potential for girls hockey, we have too many weak high school programs, which yields strong skaters on weak teams wanting to move (or be recruited) to better teams.
The debate on this topic is frustrating for me as we are talking about the symptoms of the problem, and not the disease itself.
So, this is where you, or your defenders call me naive or stupid, or a private apologist. Go ahead. I will continue to put in time and effort on things that I can control.
zooomx wrote:Thanks for the spelling lesson. aneurysm. Smart phone is at fault ... At least that's the story I'm sticking with. You had a few good points here for the discussion. But to say we all don't have the ability to influence some of these issues is a sad statement.itsfoilcoach wrote:Ok, so I thought maybe I missed something, and I read all 7 pages of this topic again. I think I had an "aneurysm" myself. See, we can spell on the short bus.zooomx wrote: Agreed. If a high school player is going to quit hockey, or a youth player is going to quit hockey because down the road, a private school may "rob" said player of a trip to the state tournament, well then maybe we should just usher every team into the state tournament.
Seriously!! You still think it's about winning. Maybe you couldn't see through my sarcasm. But my god, it's not about winning state, or Suzy getting Ms Hockey. It's about improving the game itself. For instance. Some people think this sport doesn't deserve to be included in hockey day in Minesota. There is a problem with respect when it comes to girls hockey out side of our world of hockey, and that is concerning....over all quality of play is one of those that won't hold the public interest...That's why the girls program was somewhat over looked. Yup it's about the road to state and winning. I think I just had a
Life isn't fair. It's true, and you still have to deal with it. Whining about it rarely levels the playing field, but learning to rise above it is the ultimate reward.
#Short bus zooomx
Again, reading through all of your comments I don't see much in terms of how to positively impact and grow the game. Not much in terms of solutions. A lot of complaining about privates, and recruiting, etc.
I share some of your frustrations, but I am not going to go on a forum and blast everyone else. I have done a lot of heavy lifting to improve my local program and to help drive positive change in the game in other out state areas too. I have spent time with some MN hockey leaders who are very open to ideas and have taken feedback from our group to the state level.
The real issue here is that we are at a crossroads, and it starts at the bottom of the pyramid. There are many communities that have weak girls numbers for no explainable reason other than apathy. There is tremendous growth potential still out there for girls hockey. Then we go to the middle of the pyramid, and co-ops at the youth level are negatively impacting numbers for U10/U12. Because we have not harnessed the full growth potential for girls hockey, we have too many weak high school programs, which yields strong skaters on weak teams wanting to move (or be recruited) to better teams.
The debate on this topic is frustrating for me as we are talking about the symptoms of the problem, and not the disease itself.
So, this is where you, or your defenders call me naive or stupid, or a private apologist. Go ahead. I will continue to put in time and effort on things that I can control.
Good luck to everyone who's playing tonight. They all should be exciting games until the final buzzer.