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Interesting, as much as I admire all of the fine Patriots, this is not that clear cut.

The Factor must take into account, in a fair and balanced way, the entire circumstances.

We Report ,You the posters Decide.

The Talking Points must include the fact that the Twins did score 5 runs and that the 100 million dollar man, Who is now 7-6 , only gave up 5.

The Factor cannot let Spin effect its reporting.

However, The Factor must agree with the Patriots and move to +1.

Johan Who gave up a grand slam to the boofing opposing pitcher.....who plays in the AL.

This would pop any teams baloon, let alone the fragile Mets.

So, we are one start from the half way point of the season and the Twins are better off without Johan Who.

100 million dollar commitment to a guy that goes out there 35 times a year and who might have his best seasons behind him.

The Factor, of course, had no idea where we would be at this time of the season when this all started. The Factor can only report what occurrs. However, there is mild amount of surprises, no, make that shock, that The Factor is at +1 at this stage.

Its a Reality Check indeed.

But hey, ole Calvin knew all along.

Stay tuned to The Factor .

packerboy wrote:Johan Who gave up a grand slam to the boofing opposing pitcher.....who plays in the AL.

The first grand slam hit by an American League pitcher in 37 years. Mu-ha-ha...

Let's all enjoy it again, shall we?

Pause it at the :02 mark, and look for this moment when Johan drops his head while Hernandez, the ump, and the catcher are all watching the ball heading toward the bullpen... it's priceless:




I'm getting so bitter in my old age...

There were 2 out. I didnt realize that.

You get the AL pitcher up with 2 out and you give up a grand slam.

Did they intentionally walk the guy before him? I hope so.

packerboy wrote:There were 2 out. I didnt realize that.

You get the AL pitcher up with 2 out and you give up a grand slam.

Did they intentionally walk the guy before him? I hope so.

The batter before him got on base because of Wright's error on a routine grounder.

Interesting.

Two guys making about 20 million this year team up to give the Mariners 4 runs.

But lets fire the manager.

The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

packerboy wrote:Interesting.

Two guys making about 20 million this year team up to give the Mariners 4 runs.

But lets fire the manager.

The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

Do not forget what they are paying the injured Pedro Martinez this year as well. It's got to be between $15-20 million.

packerboy wrote: The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

Johan Who - $16,984,216
David Wright - $5,250,000
Pedro Who - $11,813,351
C. Delgado - $16,000,000 .234 BA
C. Beltran - $18,622,809 .279 BA

The Factor is being kind just calling him a Pinhead.

packerboy wrote:Interesting.

Two guys making about 20 million this year team up to give the Mariners 4 runs.

But lets fire the manager.

The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

David Wright isn't anywhere near 20 million.

I'm not trying to attack your choice of moving it to +1, but Johan did give up only 1 ER. I have a feeling if the same happened to Livan, it might be "rotated" differently.

As I have said before, the $ saved by not having Johan should help at some point, but in this season alone Livan's pitching head2head against Johan's is not a +1 for Livan. By my count I have Johan at +3.

Check it out for yourself:

Johan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/644 ... siTy2FCLcF

Livan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/573 ... LMQbOFCLcF

If the Seattle Santa Claus was fired in part for giving HI-HO Silva(9 losses in a row - 5.92era - .320 opba) a ridiculous 4yr/48 Mil contract, shouldn't the NY Pinhead be getting his bags packed?

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:I'm not trying to attack your choice of moving it to +1, but Johan did give up only 1 ER. I have a feeling if the same happened to Livan, it might be "rotated" differently.

As I have said before, the $ saved by not having Johan should help at some point, but in this season alone Livan's pitching head2head against Johan's is not a +1 for Livan. By my count I have Johan at +3.

So we should just ignore the fact that Johan Who gave up a slammer to a pitcher because it was unearned? NOW WHO'S SPINNING THINGS?

Livan is 8-4

Who is 7-6

I'm surprised hes only plus 1.

He should've after last season's debacle.

Gotta love the trend of of these big market behemoths (Angels, Dodgers, Yankees Mets, Giants) throwing money at every flash in the pan that pops up from season to season, and having it blow up in their faces. It worked in the 90's, but not too much anymore. Boston seems to have figured it out, but even with them, a lot of their success is from guys who came up within their system (pitching staff excluded).

Carl Pavano anyone? (Sorry ERE... had to be done).

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:

packerboy wrote:Interesting.

Two guys making about 20 million this year team up to give the Mariners 4 runs.

But lets fire the manager.

The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

David Wright isn't anywhere near 20 million.

I'm not trying to attack your choice of moving it to +1, but Johan did give up only 1 ER. I have a feeling if the same happened to Livan, it might be "rotated" differently.

As I have said before, the $ saved by not having Johan should help at some point, but in this season alone Livan's pitching head2head against Johan's is not a +1 for Livan. By my count I have Johan at +3.

Check it out for yourself:

Johan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/644 ... siTy2FCLcF

Livan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/573 ... LMQbOFCLcF

More Spin from a familiar and reliable source.

The Factor does not contend that Livatana is a better pitcher than Johan Who, nor vice versa. On the contrary, The Factor has no interest in any such analysis.

The only thing we consider is whether the team would win more games if Who was still here and Livan was not picked up.

The Factor has determined..... er, I mean reported that they would not.

ER, or should we address you as "Dr Spin", the Twins have only lost 5 times when Livan starts. In four of those they scored 2 runs or less. Johan Who wouldnt have thrown shutouts in those losses.

Its not a head to head pitching matchup.

Johan Who's team has lost 7 times when he starts including the last 4.

And dont Spin it with that "only 1 earned run" crapola. He gave up a 2 out grand slam to a pitcher. I dont care if all 3 guys were on base because of errors. Pick up your team. Get the boofin pitcher out if you are worth 100 million.

Stay tuned to The Factor as we continue to maintain vigilant watch over the No Spin Zone

God bless The Factor!

packerboy wrote:

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:

packerboy wrote:Interesting.

Two guys making about 20 million this year team up to give the Mariners 4 runs.

But lets fire the manager.

The Factor says "Omar Minaya, you sir are a Pinhead"

David Wright isn't anywhere near 20 million.

I'm not trying to attack your choice of moving it to +1, but Johan did give up only 1 ER. I have a feeling if the same happened to Livan, it might be "rotated" differently.

As I have said before, the $ saved by not having Johan should help at some point, but in this season alone Livan's pitching head2head against Johan's is not a +1 for Livan. By my count I have Johan at +3.

Check it out for yourself:

Johan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/644 ... siTy2FCLcF

Livan- http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/573 ... LMQbOFCLcF

More Spin from a familiar and reliable source.

The Factor does not contend that Livatana is a better pitcher than Johan Who, nor vice versa. On the contrary, The Factor has no interest in any such analysis.

The only thing we consider is whether the team would win more games if Who was still here and Livan was not picked up.

The Factor has determined..... er, I mean reported that they would not.

ER, or should we address you as "Dr Spin", the Twins have only lost 5 times when Livan starts. In four of those they scored 2 runs or less. Johan Who wouldnt have thrown shutouts in those losses.

Its not a head to head pitching matchup.

Johan Who's team has lost 7 times when he starts including the last 4.

And dont Spin it with that "only 1 earned run" crapola. He gave up a 2 out grand slam to a pitcher. I dont care if all 3 guys were on base because of errors. Pick up your team. Get the boofin pitcher out if you are worth 100 million.

Stay tuned to The Factor as we continue to maintain vigilant watch over the No Spin Zone

That's cuz he gave up 7 runs by the Boofin' 4th inning in 3 of those games! No better way to crush a team than make them play from way behind after a few innings.

Neut- Give Johan the run support Livan has been getting this year and vice versa, Livan wouldn't be .500 and Johan would have 10 wins no problem.

EREmpireStrikesBack wrote:Neut- Give Johan the run support Livan has been getting this year and vice versa, Livan wouldn't be .500 and Johan would have 10 wins no problem.

Your dealing in "ifs" ER. This is a NO SPIN ZONE!

Santana didn't get any run support last year either.

A +1 for Livantana or a +3 for Santana is such an indistinguishable linear distance based on the variables of the factor's equation, the fact that it is so indistinguishable makes it blatantly distinguishable that the trade of Santana and the signing of Livantana will prove to be a baseball act of geniusness that will rival NY's acquision of the Bambino himself decades ago.

Fact Santana is better than Livantana
Fact the previous fact has nothing to do with the Factor

Irishmans Shanty wrote:A +1 for Livantana or a +3 for Santana is such an indistinguishable linear distance based on the variables of the factor's equation, the fact that it is so indistinguishable makes it blatantly distinguishable that the trade of Santana and the signing of Livantana will prove to be a baseball act of geniusness that will rival NY's acquision of the Bambino himself decades ago.

Hard to argue with that. Really hard...

Irishmans Shanty wrote:A +1 for Livantana or a +3 for Santana is such an indistinguishable linear distance based on the variables of the factor's equation, the fact that it is so indistinguishable makes it blatantly distinguishable that the trade of Santana and the signing of Livantana will prove to be a baseball act of geniusness that will rival NY's acquision of the Bambino himself decades ago.

Fact Santana is better than Livantana
Fact the previous fact has nothing to do with the Factor

Could not have said it better myself.... at least not while sober.

ER, we know that if the Twins score a bunch of runs it doesnt matter who pitches. Thats happened alot and when that happens , The Factor doesn't move. But thats the point ......isnt it?

This "if he doesnt give up a bunch of runs early, they score way more " is nothing but Spin. Even if it could rise to the level of a Talking Point, it wouldnt change anything.

Interesting, The Factor , in its never ending quest to be fair and balanced, has never played the NL card. It has been proven that if Livantana pitched in the NL , he would be much better. If we Factored that in and played the NL card so to speak, it might go to an even highr number in favor of getting rid of Who.

At least the Twins still have their manager.

The +1 is fair. The +1 is balanced.

Thats all we can hope for here in the No Spin Zone

The Factor must remain +1, Livantana got destroyed, Santana pitched well but still got the loss.

Twins only score one run, would not matter who was pitching.

The Factor is Fair and Balanced

Interesting. Johan Who goes to NY as a big free agent signee/trade.

The Twins are ripped by the Pinheads in the national media for letting him go.

Who is 7-7 and his team has lost in his last 5 starts and is struggling to be at .500. No more Willie and now the 100 million dollar boy is telling the media that "he cant do everything".

Just what his teamates want to hear. Next he will have some suggestions for management on player acquisitions. Maybe he will recommned they trade for an ace type starter.

But these are just Talking Points as we review the issues.

We Report . You Decide.

The Factor reports that Livantana was hit pretty hard again but that his O only scored one run.

Johan Who gave up 3 in 6 so it makes no difference if they lose 3-1 or 5-1.

The Factor remains at +1.

Interesting, I was watching Friday nights thriller and was reminded of ER's spin about how if they didn't fall behind so early and blah blah blah. Well ER, or should I say Dr. Spin, Balckburn gave up 6 early and the Twins fought back so..... .........what was my point ?

Anyways, half way and +1. Quite the Reality Check wouldn't you say?

Stay tuned to The Factor as we sail thru the second half and remember folks, the Spin stops right here.

The Factor remains at +1.

The Twins score 12 for Livantana so it doesnt matter what Who does.

Interesting, The Mets lose again in a game started by Johan.

88 gmes into the season; the Twins are 50-38 and 1 game back in a divsion that by the end of the year will be as tough as any.

The Mets are 44-44, 3.5 games back in a division that is a joke.

Now, which team signed the ace, 100 million dollar pitcher in the off season from the others roster?

The Factor reports, you, the posters, decide.

Interesting, Johan Who will be in NY for the All Star Game but not at Yankee Stadium.

Fair. Balanced.

The Spin stops right here.

See yah next time on The Factor

I actually agree. Go figure...

The Twins give up 18 runs. 6 for Livan

Looks like the Factor is moving back to even, unless the Mets give up 19.

In some other shocking news Kubel is tied for the team lead in home runs.