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youngblood08 wrote:Does everything need a purpose? The sad thing about it is there are plenty of players that could be on these teams but due to the fact they don't get to the State tournament or are stuck on some bad teams they DON"T get the exposure that the players on Hill or STA get. We can beat this dead horse to death you play with better players it makes you look better even when you aren't!

So what happens when those good players on bad teams who have to skate on the team with those other players from the state tournament teams during the advance tryouts?

High Flyer wrote:

youngblood08 wrote:Does everything need a purpose? The sad thing about it is there are plenty of players that could be on these teams but due to the fact they don't get to the State tournament or are stuck on some bad teams they DON"T get the exposure that the players on Hill or STA get. We can beat this dead horse to death you play with better players it makes you look better even when you aren't!

So what happens when those good players on bad teams who have to skate on the team with those other players from the state tournament teams during the advance tryouts?

youngblood08 wrote:Does everything need a purpose? The sad thing about it is there are plenty of players that could be on these teams but due to the fact they don't get to the State tournament or are stuck on some bad teams they DON"T get the exposure that the players on Hill or STA get. We can beat this dead horse to death you play with better players it makes you look better even when you aren't!

The reality is: if you are talented you will be discovered no matter what team you are on.

There are kids that surface in the NHL that came from farms in the middle of the tundra.

Work hard, have fun and enjoy the GAME.

When was the last time a kid from the Tundra was discovered? Scouts have home teams and home areas, this buddy or that family friend it's all the same crap shoot.

I am saying for the HIGH School Elite league, Look at how many kids are there just because thier team went to the State tournament last year. Yes most should be there but you can't tell me there rosters are that deep! I watch a lot of hockey also, the 10th grader from school X isn't better then the senior from school Z. He just played with some better players that made him look better. Or in the Hill and STA case you play 8-10 games against a few of the least talented teams in the State, rack up meaningless points and the Stat Sheet Scouts think you are a good player.

I think youngblood makes a good point. I still feel that 80-90% of the kids are right and the league provides an amazing opportunity for MN players, but have to agree that they are way too deep in Hill kids and some other schools. I think it will become obvious early on though which players probably should not be there. Unfortunately for the kids who got missed though, it will be too late for them. No perfect system, but I think they get the majority of it right.

youngblood08 wrote:When was the last time a kid from the Tundra was discovered? Scouts have home teams and home areas, this buddy or that family friend it's all the same crap shoot.

I am saying for the HIGH School Elite league, Look at how many kids are there just because thier team went to the State tournament last year. Yes most should be there but you can't tell me there rosters are that deep! I watch a lot of hockey also, the 10th grader from school X isn't better then the senior from school Z. He just played with some better players that made him look better. Or in the Hill and STA case you play 8-10 games against a few of the least talented teams in the State, rack up meaningless points and the Stat Sheet Scouts think you are a good player.

I could be wrong but I believe the main reason for the Elite league is to keep players in Mn High School hockey...and not go to the USHL etc...therefore they are more worried about potential 9th, 10th, 11th graders than the seniors. I'm assuming there aren't many 12 graders not in the Elite league that the MSHL is concerned about losing.

Hoops wrote:

youngblood08 wrote:When was the last time a kid from the Tundra was discovered? Scouts have home teams and home areas, this buddy or that family friend it's all the same crap shoot.

I am saying for the HIGH School Elite league, Look at how many kids are there just because thier team went to the State tournament last year. Yes most should be there but you can't tell me there rosters are that deep! I watch a lot of hockey also, the 10th grader from school X isn't better then the senior from school Z. He just played with some better players that made him look better. Or in the Hill and STA case you play 8-10 games against a few of the least talented teams in the State, rack up meaningless points and the Stat Sheet Scouts think you are a good player.

I could be wrong but I believe the main reason for the Elite league is to keep players in Mn High School hockey...and not go to the USHL etc...therefore they are more worried about potential 9th, 10th, 11th graders than the seniors. I'm assuming there aren't many 12 graders not in the Elite league that the MSHL is concerned about losing.

yea...because so many 9th and 10th graders have left and had success in the USHL...come on..

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote:

youngblood08 wrote:When was the last time a kid from the Tundra was discovered? Scouts have home teams and home areas, this buddy or that family friend it's all the same crap shoot.

I am saying for the HIGH School Elite league, Look at how many kids are there just because thier team went to the State tournament last year. Yes most should be there but you can't tell me there rosters are that deep! I watch a lot of hockey also, the 10th grader from school X isn't better then the senior from school Z. He just played with some better players that made him look better. Or in the Hill and STA case you play 8-10 games against a few of the least talented teams in the State, rack up meaningless points and the Stat Sheet Scouts think you are a good player.

I could be wrong but I believe the main reason for the Elite league is to keep players in Mn High School hockey...and not go to the USHL etc...therefore they are more worried about potential 9th, 10th, 11th graders than the seniors. I'm assuming there aren't many 12 graders not in the Elite league that the MSHL is concerned about losing.

yea...because so many 9th and 10th graders have left and had success in the USHL...come on..

Get a clue. The 9th and 10th graders ARE the ones they want to keep throught their Varsity yrs...they already have the 12 graders...at leas the ones they want. Get it?

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote: I could be wrong but I believe the main reason for the Elite league is to keep players in Mn High School hockey...and not go to the USHL etc...therefore they are more worried about potential 9th, 10th, 11th graders than the seniors. I'm assuming there aren't many 12 graders not in the Elite league that the MSHL is concerned about losing.

yea...because so many 9th and 10th graders have left and had success in the USHL...come on..

Get a clue. The 9th and 10th graders ARE the ones they want to keep throught their Varsity yrs...they already have the 12 graders...at leas the ones they want. Get it?

You mean like Ryan Walters, Fink, Birkholtz, Flairity, Bruggeman, Lee, Lucia, Jensen, Hartman, ect... Or do you mean other "Seniors that they want"

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote: yea...because so many 9th and 10th graders have left and had success in the USHL...come on..

Get a clue. The 9th and 10th graders ARE the ones they want to keep throught their Varsity yrs...they already have the 12 graders...at leas the ones they want. Get it?

You mean like Ryan Walters, Fink, Birkholtz, Flairity, Bruggeman, Lee, Lucia, Jensen, Hartman, ect... Or do you mean other "Seniors that they want"

Doesn't answer why you would take 9th and 10th over 12 graders..my post did. Quit your whining...

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote: Get a clue. The 9th and 10th graders ARE the ones they want to keep throught their Varsity yrs...they already have the 12 graders...at leas the ones they want. Get it?

You mean like Ryan Walters, Fink, Birkholtz, Flairity, Bruggeman, Lee, Lucia, Jensen, Hartman, ect... Or do you mean other "Seniors that they want"

Doesn't answer why you would take 9th and 10th over 12 graders..my post did. Quit your whining...

You idiot...stick to youth hockey...it seems that is where you shine...all of those players I listed played in the elite league before their senior year and still left.

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote: You mean like Ryan Walters, Fink, Birkholtz, Flairity, Bruggeman, Lee, Lucia, Jensen, Hartman, ect... Or do you mean other "Seniors that they want"

Doesn't answer why you would take 9th and 10th over 12 graders..my post did. Quit your whining...

You idiot...stick to youth hockey...it seems that is where you shine...all of those players I listed played in the elite league before their senior year and still left.

So what? You can't guarantee kids will stick around...so should they just not have the league? Grow up.

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote: Doesn't answer why you would take 9th and 10th over 12 graders..my post did. Quit your whining...

You idiot...stick to youth hockey...it seems that is where you shine...all of those players I listed played in the elite league before their senior year and still left.

So what? You can't guarantee kids will stick around...so should they just not have the league? Grow up.

They should make certain they pick the top 100 players that year regardless of what grade they are in. Thats all...thanks for your time Mr. Maturity.

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote: You idiot...stick to youth hockey...it seems that is where you shine...all of those players I listed played in the elite league before their senior year and still left.

So what? You can't guarantee kids will stick around...so should they just not have the league? Grow up.

They should make certain they pick the top 100 players that year regardless of what grade they are in. Thats all...thanks for your time Mr. Maturity.

You are welcome.

Looks like this thread has outlived its usefulness, huh?

Lee

flatontheice wrote:

Hoops wrote:

flatontheice wrote: You mean like Ryan Walters, Fink, Birkholtz, Flairity, Bruggeman, Lee, Lucia, Jensen, Hartman, ect... Or do you mean other "Seniors that they want"

Doesn't answer why you would take 9th and 10th over 12 graders..my post did. Quit your whining...

You idiot...stick to youth hockey...it seems that is where you shine...all of those players I listed played in the elite league before their senior year and still left.

Excellent point Flaton!! They got the chance as 10 graders and still left. You see Hoops my son could go to the next level but wants to stay and finish with his high school team. The 9th and 10th graders are the ones that think they are already too good for the high school system anyways. Who are the "THEY" you are talking about? They want the chosen ones to stick around so THEY can put thier name on the web site when they get to the next level. So now if your name isn't on the list you have no shot? According to breakout they will find you any where but in your words if you aren't on these teams as a 9th grader you mine as well pack it in.

east hockey wrote:Looks like this thread has outlived its usefulness, huh?

Lee

Probably true Lee..

east hockey wrote:Looks like this thread has outlived its usefulness, huh?

Lee

As with any thread Hoops enters.

To the subject at hand, I have no inside knowledge of who was offered a tryout or a spot and turned the Elite League down but some of the kids who did get tryouts weren't the top kids from our area and once again aside from a Lakeville South kid sections 1A, 3A, and 1AA were shut out. The over representation of a couple of schools is a bit concerning and the assumption that the try outs are now simply nothing more than a money maker ala junior hockey is also a bit more than concerning.

I make this easier for you. Take a look at the College football powerhouse USC. Look at the number of players that have come from there and where they are now. Matt Lienart is struggling to keep his job, Reggie Bush is a non factor in New Orleans, John David Booty is a 3rd stringer here in Minnesota. 2 of them won the Heisemen for petes sake. Yes they are in the Pros and are more then likely good athletes but they are definately not living up to the billing of being college footballs best players. They played with a lot of really good players that elavated their game.

As a group they were great in college but they also had a very highly talented group. Now you seperate some of the sheep from the flock and they get pretty average pretty fast. Thats why teams like Hill and STA seem to have so many great players yet they turn average pretty fast.

There are many players that could be in this league and do just fine. And they are the ones that don't have the "Political" backing or the name to carry them to the next level.

youngblood08 wrote:I make this easier for you. Take a look at the College football powerhouse USC. Look at the number of players that have come from there and where they are now. Matt Lienart is struggling to keep his job, Reggie Bush is a non factor in New Orleans, John David Booty is a 3rd stringer here in Minnesota. 2 of them won the Heisemen for petes sake. Yes they are in the Pros and are more then likely good athletes but they are definately not living up to the billing of being college footballs best players. They played with a lot of really good players that elavated their game.

As a group they were great in college but they also had a very highly talented group. Now you seperate some of the sheep from the flock and they get pretty average pretty fast. Thats why teams like Hill and STA seem to have so many great players yet they turn average pretty fast.

There are many players that could be in this league and do just fine. And they are the ones that don't have the "Political" backing or the name to carry them to the next level.

Great explaination..I am so clear now.

Youngblood you have it correct sorry to burst the Hill Murray bubble but that teams just is not that deep in talent when referring to the Elite player. It is the same for all Minnesota teams, with very rare exception. So in essence what the league is doing is taking a good player over a Joey Benik type player from a school that simply does not fit the mold. Enough with the politics, region 1 is getting shorted by quite a margin. I move that the league is represented by each section similar to Advanced boys program.

I cant believe all you haven't figured it out yet but, this is Russo's league.
It has virtually nothing to do with MSHSL.
Yes it has the backing of the high school coaches, but that is because they want to keep their kids in high school and on the ice.
Russo can AND DOES take the kids he wants to. When the coaches go over their rosters, they are OFTEN surprised by what kids are on their team and why. Often it is a relationship that Russo has with that kid, parent or group of people. For the most part the rt kids are in the league. Just thought I would shed a little light.

goldy313 wrote:

east hockey wrote:Looks like this thread has outlived its usefulness, huh?

Lee

As with any thread Hoops enters.

To the subject at hand, I have no inside knowledge of who was offered a tryout or a spot and turned the Elite League down but some of the kids who did get tryouts weren't the top kids from our area and once again aside from a Lakeville South kid sections 1A, 3A, and 1AA were shut out. The over representation of a couple of schools is a bit concerning and the assumption that the try outs are now simply nothing more than a money maker ala junior hockey is also a bit more than concerning.

No question I need to dummy it down in here....I keep forgetting I'm talking w/ hockey pucks...not exactly an intellectual crowd.

I have not been on this board in sometime now, after reading some of the comments I just wanted to let everyone know, if it's meant to be it will happen.

My son was on Elites his Sr. year last year...and guess what...he came from the SMALL school and trust me the team was not good, and the team plays in lower division. He went on to play in the All Star games, 8's and the Chicago Showcase. All based on him as a player NOT the school he came from or the team.

He has been told he was not as well known as most kids, and some are very surprised by his level of skill coming from a small school. He has been noticed and maybe things would have moved faster had been from a bigger and better program, but hey it's all working out in the end. There are kids that don't get noticed and my son was one that did not until the end.

When your from the smaller schools parents are not always aware of the opportunities that are out there. We sure had no idea how much was out there till we had been through the process. And it has not been an easy process I might add.

If you feel your son has what it takes it's never to late! He will be found if he's good enough!

I have not been on this board in sometime now, after reading some of the comments I just wanted to let everyone know, if it's meant to be it will happen.

My son was on Elites his Sr. year last year...and guess what...he came from the SMALL school and trust me the team was not good, and the team plays in lower division. He went on to play in the All Star games, 8's and the Chicago Showcase. All based on him as a player NOT the school he came from or the team.

He has been told he was not as well known as most kids, and some have been are very surprised by his level of skill/play coming from a small school program. He has been noticed by many scouts in the past year and coaches, maybe things would have moved faster had been from a bigger and better program, but hey, it's all working out in the end. There are kids that don't get noticed, and my son was one them until the end.

When your from the smaller schools parents are not always aware of the opportunities that are out there. We sure had no idea how much was out there till we had been through the process. And it has not been an easy process I might add.

It's NEVER to late... if a player has the skill and talent, they will be found no matter what team they they play for- you will stand out.