Section 7AA 2015-16

[karl(east)]

6-3 East final. Wasn't pretty for a couple of periods, but it's reassuring to see them pull it out against a team that never makes it easy for them--that obviously didn't happen in the first meeting.

On to Hopkins.

[Houndhockey]

Guess not on the trap game, East is dialed in. Thought they might be looking ahead to Hockey Day. Up 6-3 later in the 3rd. Will be even more impressed if they can play well against LN.

They weren't exactly dialed in. In fact, you could argue that CEC outplayed them for good stretches of the 1st and 2nd period. They outshot East 35-26 or so which rarely ever happens to East and never by CEC. East came out strong though in the 3rd and never trailed in the game. In the end, East may look back at this challenge as a turning point in their season if they go on to reach State. They responded well to the adversity. We'll see how the rest of the week goes for them but I'd say as of now they are firmly holding the #2 seed.

[alcloseshaver]

Guess not on the trap game, East is dialed in. Thought they might be looking ahead to Hockey Day. Up 6-3 later in the 3rd. Will be even more impressed if they can play well against LN.

They weren't exactly dialed in. In fact, you could argue that CEC outplayed them for good stretches of the 1st and 2nd period. They outshot East 35-26 or so which rarely ever happens to East and never by CEC. East came out strong though in the 3rd and never trailed in the game. In the end, East may look back at this challenge as a turning point in their season if they go on to reach State. They responded well to the adversity. We'll see how the rest of the week goes for them but I'd say as of now they are firmly holding the #2 seed.

They out worked ER on Sat. And it was a message to the Elks. Trending up yes but their resume is not much different than ER's. H2H matter? ER 6 GR 2

[east hockey]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

[alcloseshaver]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

And the STMA game was a head scratcher?

[east hockey]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

And the STMA game was a head scratcher?

Was speaking of section games.

Lee

[alcloseshaver]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

And the STMA game was a head scratcher?

Was speaking of section games.

Lee

got it, We just don't play the same #of section games. Not sure if we need to play more section games or schedule top metro teams. East and GR do come down and play some top metro so there might be some compare.

[kniven]

Cloquet at East tonight. Northwoodsradio.com or iheart radio app 92.1 The Fan - Duluth.

Wow! The atmosphere and rivalry on display once again tonight. So much respect for the Duluth East Greyhounds. We (CEC) fought a good fight, but we came up short in the 3rd period. I am so proud of my boys. Congrads to Duluth East!!

[TheHockeyDJ]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

If East is 3 I wouldn't be surprised if Duluth Marshall is 6. That would be a great atmosphere for a QF game.

[boblee]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

If East is 3 I wouldn't be surprised if Duluth Marshall is 6. That would be a great atmosphere for a QF game.

I will be floored if DM is 6. They have a couple good wins. How many good wins does FLake have?

[TheHockeyDJ]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

If East is 3 I wouldn't be surprised if Duluth Marshall is 6. That would be a great atmosphere for a QF game.

I will be floored if DM is 6. They have a couple good wins. How many good wins does FLake have?

I know, FL should be the 6. They got some weird bounces vs CEC, otherwise they don't have any quality wins. They'll get beat 10-0 by the Hounds in the quarters.

[Houndhockey]

I still have East 3rd. You can't ignore the earlier losses to Cloquet and Marshall. Even if East plows past Lakeville North, it's a reach to give them #2.

Lee

I wouldn't be ignoring the early losses, but kind of like what Karl had said prior to the DE/ER game. If DE beats ER and ER beat GR and GR beat DE, then its kind of a whole body of work. ER's whole body of work is very comparable to DE's. They play some light competition like Robbinsdale Armstrong, Champlin Park, Spring Lake Park, Irondale, Coon Rapids and Osseo. Also, they lost to EP, Edina, Blaine, BSM, MG. The one thing they have on East is a win over GR and win and tie against Centennial who DE lost to in their only meeting. But East beat Wayzata, has a chance to beat LVN this week, and play Minnetonka after the meeting, and last but not least holds the trump card over ER in the fact that they beat them head to head. It may be unfortunate but ER should probably play more section games to get a clearer picture of the section as a whole. At least concerning the top half of the section. At this point the way the teams are playing now along with their overall records being very similar I think it should be:
GR
DE
ER
CEC
5-9 - I don't think it honestly matters much. These look like your Semifinal Saturday participants to me.

[alcloseshaver]

Hound, If East loses to LN then it swings more to ER. Not much difference between 2&3 seed in the big picture. GR's resume is not way better the ER's so we may have to throw out the 3 head to head games then. Rapids is deeper unlike ER which loses a lot with Zerban and Perbix out.

[Houndhockey]

Hound, If East loses to LN then it swings more to ER. Not much difference between 2&3 seed in the big picture. GR's resume is not way better the ER's so we may have to throw out the 3 head to head games then. Rapids is deeper unlike ER which loses a lot with Zerban and Perbix out.

I get where you're coming from. It would swing a bit more towards ER if DE loses on Saturday. Throwing out the 3 games though isn't the way to go about it. It just means we have to look deeper into the overall bodies of work. It does play a factor though. If DE and ER are very similar, then it could be as simple coming down to H2H.

Rapids aren't a bunch or world beaters either. I get that they are pretty close as well, it's just that outside of their section loss to ER, they've done enough to merit the #1 seed. #2 and #3 don't matter very much except for the last change in the semis.

[alcloseshaver]

It is hard, in 5AA most of the main characters play each other twice. Also if GR were stumble than we revert back to 6-2. Section wins vs overall body of work in a spread out section is our reality. ER controlled their own destiny and didn't get it done, hopefully they are at their best in section when all this doesn't matter.

[Houndhockey]

If GR were to stumble it would likely be against Holy Family which I can't even really call stumbling at that point (unless it's a really bad blowout loss). Now if they lost to Hopkins also it wouldn't look good, especially if DE beats Hopkins the night prior but I still don't think it would be enough to bump them out of the top spot. Had the meeting been later and GR were to lose to Denfeld as well, and East were to beat Minnetonka, then there might be some merit but that is grasping a bit.

[boblee]

Understanding the voting process will help everyone. Each team votes 1-8 not counting their team. That means it is really unlikely that specific scenarios can be applied as many on the board has done. Let's say Rapids is 1. You don't get to then burrow down to Elk River vs. Duluth East and come down to head to head.

Everyone does an initial ranking of the other teams. That's tallied and posted. Then, they discuss and do another round of voting and there is your seeding.

The nature of the voting may, however, lend to Duluth East because they have played far more section games, giving more teams an easier chance to evaluate them.

Body of work is such a big part of 7AA for two reasons: the wide range of 7AA games played and opponents - and the way the voting process is aligned.

[alcloseshaver]

Thanks, So for the southern teams like ER are they better off scheduling the likes of Wayzata, Hill, LN, ect and getting some wins than adding CEC, Marshall and Flake and posting an impressive section record? If we had smaller conference schedule they could try and do both but that isn't plausible. Last year they beat GR and Tied East and got the top seed.

[boblee]

Every year is different. If Elk River had beaten Cloquet, Marshall, FLake, etc. they would just have beaten more teams that factor in at seeding time. The win over Lakeville North is really nice, but their coaching staff isn't there top put the Elks at number 1.

To me, and I am trying to just look at this year in a vacuum, it would seem likely that East, Cloquet, Marshall, Forest Lake and Andover would all put Grand Rapids at 1. Elk River probably puts East at 1. That has 6 of the 9 number 1 votes as not Elk River. Maybe Andover gives the nod to the Elks since Elk River beat then twice. That's still already 5 number 1s that aren't for Elk River.

I could be totally wrong, too. Just trying to put the logical pieces together.

[elliott70]

QRF
1 No. 12 Grand Rapids (116.1) 6-1-0 15-6-1 4.4 2.9 Won 2
2 No. 13 Elk River/Zimmerman (113.0) 3-1-0 13-7-1 3.6 2.7 Lost 1
3 No. 16 Duluth East (107.1) 5-3-0 13-7-0 4.0 2.3 Won 7
4 No. 40 C-E-C (72.2) 4-5-0 10-13-0 2.4 3.1 Lost 2
5 No. 41 Forest Lake (68.7) 1-3-0 9-11-1 2.7 3.4 Lost 2
6 No. 43 Duluth Marshall (67.8 ) 3-3-0 8-12-2 2.7 3.5 Won 1
7 No. 55 St. Francis (57.7) 3-2-0 7-14-0 2.9 3.5 Won 1
8 No. 57 Andover (53.7) 2-5-0 4-17-0 2.1 4.8 Lost 12
9 No. 59 Cambridge-Isanti

Seeds will be (just ask my buddy Mike) just like QRF has it.

Play in game - hoping for an Andover win just because I know the head coach.
GR over Andover
ER over SF
DE over DM
FL over CEC

GR over FL
ER over DE

GR over ER

[alcloseshaver]

[quote="boblee"]Understanding the voting process will help everyone. Each team votes 1-8 not counting their team. That means it is really unlikely that specific scenarios can be applied as many on the board has done. Let's say Rapids is 1. You don't get to then burrow down to Elk River vs. Duluth East and come down to head to head.

Everyone does an initial ranking of the other teams. That's tallied and posted. Then, they discuss and do another round of voting and there is your seeding.

The nature of the voting may, however, lend to Duluth East because they have played far more section games, giving more teams an easier chance to evaluate them.

Body of work is such a big part of 7AA for two reasons: the wide range of 7AA games played and opponents - and the way the voting process is aligned.[/quote Hill at Elk the night of the mtg.

[Usthockey13]

QRF
1 No. 12 Grand Rapids (116.1) 6-1-0 15-6-1 4.4 2.9 Won 2
2 No. 13 Elk River/Zimmerman (113.0) 3-1-0 13-7-1 3.6 2.7 Lost 1
3 No. 16 Duluth East (107.1) 5-3-0 13-7-0 4.0 2.3 Won 7
4 No. 40 C-E-C (72.2) 4-5-0 10-13-0 2.4 3.1 Lost 2
5 No. 41 Forest Lake (68.7) 1-3-0 9-11-1 2.7 3.4 Lost 2
6 No. 43 Duluth Marshall (67.8 ) 3-3-0 8-12-2 2.7 3.5 Won 1
7 No. 55 St. Francis (57.7) 3-2-0 7-14-0 2.9 3.5 Won 1
8 No. 57 Andover (53.7) 2-5-0 4-17-0 2.1 4.8 Lost 12
9 No. 59 Cambridge-Isanti

Seeds will be (just ask my buddy Mike) just like QRF has it.

Play in game - hoping for an Andover win just because I know the head coach.
GR over Andover
ER over SF
DE over DM
FL over CEC

GR over FL
ER over DE

GR over ER

Flip FLake and DM and i think thats what the seeding will be. You can throw QRF out the window. THat isnt even talked about at the meeting

[elliott70]

QRF
1 No. 12 Grand Rapids (116.1) 6-1-0 15-6-1 4.4 2.9 Won 2
2 No. 13 Elk River/Zimmerman (113.0) 3-1-0 13-7-1 3.6 2.7 Lost 1
3 No. 16 Duluth East (107.1) 5-3-0 13-7-0 4.0 2.3 Won 7
4 No. 40 C-E-C (72.2) 4-5-0 10-13-0 2.4 3.1 Lost 2
5 No. 41 Forest Lake (68.7) 1-3-0 9-11-1 2.7 3.4 Lost 2
6 No. 43 Duluth Marshall (67.8 ) 3-3-0 8-12-2 2.7 3.5 Won 1
7 No. 55 St. Francis (57.7) 3-2-0 7-14-0 2.9 3.5 Won 1
8 No. 57 Andover (53.7) 2-5-0 4-17-0 2.1 4.8 Lost 12
9 No. 59 Cambridge-Isanti

Seeds will be (just ask my buddy Mike) just like QRF has it.

Play in game - hoping for an Andover win just because I know the head coach.
GR over Andover
ER over SF
DE over DM
FL over CEC

GR over FL
ER over DE

GR over ER

Flip FLake and DM and i think thats what the seeding will be. You can throw QRF out the window. THat isnt even talked about at the meeting

Not really using QRF for my guess, more so to save time listing all the teams.
Other than how the top 3 shake out it seems these 2 (FL - DM) is the only other issue. Similar records, common opponent in CEC and DE and GR - kind of canceling out. DM has two more section 7 wins but against the bottom teams so kind of meaningless.
Non section common opponents FL beat Proctor and lost to Roseville DM just the opposite.
Kind of a toss up.

[alcloseshaver]

Every year is different. If Elk River had beaten Cloquet, Marshall, FLake, etc. they would just have beaten more teams that factor in at seeding time. The win over Lakeville North is really nice, but their coaching staff isn't there top put the Elks at number 1.

To me, and I am trying to just look at this year in a vacuum, it would seem likely that East, Cloquet, Marshall, Forest Lake and Andover would all put Grand Rapids at 1. Elk River probably puts East at 1. That has 6 of the 9 number 1 votes as not Elk River. Maybe Andover gives the nod to the Elks since Elk River beat then twice. That's still already 5 number 1s that aren't for Elk River.

I could be totally wrong, too. Just trying to put the logical pieces together.

That at least paints a clearer picture of what could go on. ER most likely not going to schedule more games in the section, need to beat East and Rapids then. Northern alliance myth not a factor, only what is best for your own team is in play.

[elliott70]

Duluth East will finish third, its a done deal.

So they want to face who in the semis, GR or ER? Yes, that's right ER.
DE will have the swing vote who gets #1. So GR gets the #1 vote.

Unfortunately that will put ER and GR tied at #1. But FL was hoping for 4 or 5 spot originally and did not want ER in the number 1 slot.
When they see they may fall to 6. They will want ER at 1 and switch their vote to ER at #1.
But DE switches their vote of ER at #2 to #3.
So we have a tie.
Not wanting to be there all night and with some pressure from DE-one or all of AND, SF and/or Camb switch to GR at #1 and we have

1 Grand Rapids
2 Elk River/Zimmerman
3 Duluth East
4 Forest Lake
5 CEC
6 Duluth Marshall
7 St. Francis
8 Andover
9 Cambridge-Isanti

AND the southern group all decide enough of this northern coalition/ politics and vote Forest Lake in at #4.