How to develop a great hockey player

[joshual]

Hey everyone, my name is Josh Levine. I am a former hockey player from Bloomington Jefferson. On March 17th at 11:00am at the Bloomington Ice Gardens I am going to be holding a seminar titled "How to Develop a Great Hockey Player." In this seminar I'll be going over a lot of myths about hockey training. I'll discuss the science behind sport specialization as well as what athletes should be doing at specific ages. I will speak for about 30 minutes and then take questions from parents.

I hope to see you there. If you have additional questions about the seminar you can email me at joshual@princeton.edu

So this thread is useful and not just an advertisement, I'd be interested in what people on the forum think are the key "ingredients" to developing a great hockey player What do you think?

[Larry Blackstone]

Delete

[Cut Above]

Committed Parents are the #1 key

Agreed, they need to write the checks, sign them up, get them there, offer support through ups and downs. Secondly, coaching. Get involved with a good group of kids and coach at a young age.

[joshual]

Committed Parents are the #1 key

I disagree actually. Committed parents often ruin hockey careers, especially in Minnesota. I'd say that instead of having committed parents, a more important ingredient would be having a passionate and committed player.

Spending more money on camps or training sessions at some sports facility won't do much in terms of creating a great hockey player unless the fundamental factors are correct. First, the training and camps have to be good. Second, the player has to want to train at 100%. He or she can train at 99% all day but that'll never make a great hockey player.

[Cut Above]

Well, every good hockey player I've ever seen had an involved parent who wrote a check and was happy to do so. They often coached, managed, usually watched many of their kids practices, got them to every single game (not missing for bday parties), shot pucks with them, made an area to play hockey/shoot/stickhandle at home, bought a net, rink in back yard, paid for a camp, took off work early to get to a camp, game or practice, signed them up for hockey, made to every game, took them to hockey games to peak their interest including high school, college, an occasional NHL game (can't afford due to the above). Those are just some of the examples.

How many kids do you know who play hockey who don't even own a net? How many don't even own 100 pucks? Unfortuneately, I know way too many. I see alot of parents sit in the car during practices and NEVER watch yet they complain about their kids playing time. It takes a committed parent (just a minor committment) to find a place for the net at home and to spend a hondo on some pucks.

They make sacrifices and are into their kids. Not to be confused with pushing their kid. All the above is accomplished by having fun. There are some bad parents who handle the above wrong. But you still need committed parents.

Eventually the kid takes over but it still requires committed parents to get the ball rolling (and even behind the scenes into Juniors and College).

There are few exceptions to the above.

Being involved with a great group of kids and coaching can be somewhat of a supplement for this.

Starting young helps too. I actually like ADM.

Moving from a crappy association is probably a good idea too! This falls into good coaching and being with like minded people.

To borrow from an often quoted article on this site:

Intense Parents + Young Kids + Rigorous Technique + Toughness = Talent

Deliberate Practice + Time = Myelin = Talent

[joshual]

I completely respect your argument and do understand that parents are important in the successful development of a hockey player (just as they are in the emotional, academic, or any other developmental aspect of a child). However, they are not as important as the passion and committment of the individual player. That is something that is fundamentally necessary for future success. Unless you can convince me that parents can teach a passion for the game, then I wouldn't place them at #1. I'd classify them as important though.

Now, your argument is a fallacy. Using your logic I could make thousands of incorrect conclusions every day. I could just as easily say that every good hockey player I know seems to have a certain type of equipment or that every hockey player I know loves to play golf. Therefore, every hockey player should wear that specific type of equipment or should love to play golf. Or furthermore, every good hockey player in the world must wear that type of equipment and/or love to play golf. The argument and line of reasoning you used is flawed and you can easily see why.

I recommend you come check out the seminar. I think you'll find it informative.

[joshual]

Starting young helps too. I actually like ADM.

Moving from a crappy association is probably a good idea too! This falls into good coaching and being with like minded people.

To borrow from an often quoted article on this site:

Intense Parents + Young Kids + Rigorous Technique + Toughness = Talent

Deliberate Practice + Time = Myelin = Talent

The ADM model actually states that intense parents + young kids slows down or harms physical and emotional development of the athlete. Unless I am miscontruing how you are defining "intense parents", which I may very well be.

Deliberate practice does not however = talent. That is a very misunderstood concept. Practice in general does not mean that a player will become better. In fact, practice can make a player really really bad. On the flip side, it can make a player very good. It's a double-edged sword in a way.

[HOCKEYDRIVER]

How important is year around training?
1. skating & working skills
2. playing team games vs 3x3
3. weights & running

Or should they have time off, just to be a kid.

[Cut Above]

I completely respect your argument and do understand that parents are important in the successful development of a hockey player (just as they are in the emotional, academic, or any other developmental aspect of a child). However, they are not as important as the passion and committment of the individual player. That is something that is fundamentally necessary for future success. Unless you can convince me that parents can teach a passion for the game, then I wouldn't place them at #1. I'd classify them as important though.

Now, your argument is a fallacy. Using your logic I could make thousands of incorrect conclusions every day. I could just as easily say that every good hockey player I know seems to have a certain type of equipment or that every hockey player I know loves to play golf. Therefore, every hockey player should wear that specific type of equipment or should love to play golf. Or furthermore, every good hockey player in the world must wear that type of equipment and/or love to play golf. The argument and line of reasoning you used is flawed and you can easily see why.

I recommend you come check out the seminar. I think you'll find it informative.

For a kid to be passionate, it's the parent who fosters the positive opportunities. Often though, it's the parent who creates a miserable experience. So it requires constant calibration in any endeavor. Make hockey a positive experience and they'll develop the passion. I've found it's up to the parents to find the positive experiences and it's often the parents who ruin it. Either way, to have a successful passionate kid requires a SPECIAL COMMITTED PARENT!

[joshual]

How important is year around training?
1. skating & working skills
2. playing team games vs 3x3
3. weights & running

Or should they have time off, just to be a kid.

Much of that depends on the chronological age of the athlete. At certain ages training is more important. For instance, you mention weight lifting and running. First, running isn't that important for a hockey player. What is more important is sprinting. Second, weight lifting has its time and place. You can have a six year old lift, but Mayo Clinic would tell you that it's a bit too early to be doing that type of training. And for obvious reasons you won't get much out that type of training.

Skating correctly is the most important skill to get right as early as possible. The more a player practice bad form, the harder it is to shake those habits.

Anyways, this post would be pages long. If you'd like, send me an email with your phone number and we can chat over the phone. Better yet, head over to BIG for the seminar. I'll be allocating time for questions.

[Cut Above]

How important is year around training?
1. skating & working skills
2. playing team games vs 3x3
3. weights & running

Or should they have time off, just to be a kid.

Depends on the kid and if it's a positive experience. Remember, there's only one answer!

[joshual]

For a kid to be passionate, it's the parent who fosters the positive opportunities. Often though, it's the parent who creates a miserable experience. So it requires constant calibration in any endeavor. Make hockey a positive experience and they'll develop the passion. I've found it's up to the parents to find the positive experiences and it's often the parents who ruin it. Either way, to have a successful passionate kid requires a SPECIAL COMMITTED PARENT![/quote]

Right, this argument is somewhat irrelevant. What comes first the chicken or the egg? So you say parents are important and I agree, but you can have special commtted parents and a player without passion or committment. But if you have a passionate and relentless player, he or she can persevere to find opportunities for improvement. If you had to choose randomly, would you find the success rate of a given player higher if he or she had "special committed parents/no passion" or "passion/no special committed parents"? I'd take the later. Ideal situation is a combination of good parenting and a passionate youngster. So we agree I think...no need to keep mulling over this point.

[joshual]

How important is year around training?
1. skating & working skills
2. playing team games vs 3x3
3. weights & running

Or should they have time off, just to be a kid.

Depends on the kid and if it's a positive experience. Remember, there's only one answer!

What's the one answer?

[HOCKEYDRIVER]

Josh, just PM you.
I think the parents are or maybe part of most problems.
Maybe as a parent we should step back and let the kids play this game.
I have 4 kids, 3 played, youngest just finished bantam's.
My oldest has a 4 yr old. He didn't play. But would like his boy to start skating. How early should they start?

[silentbutdeadly3139]

So this thread is useful and not just an advertisement, I'd be interested in what people on the forum think are the key "ingredients" to developing a great hockey player What do you think?

From your responses to everyone's thoughts or suggestions I think u don't care what anyone thinks. You appear to have all the answers and enjoy the art of reason and arguing

[joshual]

So this thread is useful and not just an advertisement, I'd be interested in what people on the forum think are the key "ingredients" to developing a great hockey player What do you think?

From your responses to everyone's thoughts or suggestions I think u don't care what anyone thinks. You appear to have all the answers and enjoy the art of reason and arguing

How many times did I state that I agreed with the user that was arguing for the importance of parents, but that I simply didn't agree to the same extent or perhaps in the same way as he or she did?

It's easy to tell someone they have all the answers and thus dismiss their arguments. If you have a point that you'd like to discuss I'm all for it. I'm not going to simply agree with it either. I'll write what I think and you can decide if you agree with me or not.

[O-townClown]

Josh, it's great that you are working to further parental education. The obvious question, given your stated subject matter, is what will you be communicating that USA Hockey isn't communicating already? Or is the material the same and you don't feel enough people have been reached? Or do you have your own ideas that run counter to their message?

[Cut Above]

The formula borrowed:

Intense Parents + Young Kids + Rigorous Technique + Toughness = Talent

"OR"

Young kids + Deliberate Practice + Time = Myelin = Talent

"OR"

At a young age, grow up next to a great coach with a kid who plays hockey who happens to be your kids age + then work fricken work hard including technique + Love the game: have some fun enjoying the game: movies, watching H.S., College, NHL, camps, movies = Talent

"OR"

At a young age, get lucky, get involved in a great association, have someone take your kid under their wing + then work fricken hard including technique + Love the game: have some fun enjoying the game: movies, watching H.S., College, NHL, camps,movies = Talent

Some parents just know how to f it up.

Good luck but here is the Master Formula:

Young kids + rigorous technique + solid Coaching + Committed fostering parents yet intense + toughness + athletic + time + have fun: dial it back by enjoying the game; camps, movies, HS games, College games, NHL games, hockey movies, museum + smart (academics) + do other positive things outside of hockey = Myelin = Talent

[joshual]

Josh, it's great that you are working to further parental education. The obvious question, given your stated subject matter, is what will you be communicating that USA Hockey isn't communicating already? Or is the material the same and you don't feel enough people have been reached? Or do you have your own ideas that run counter to their message?

Some of what I'm saying USA hockey seems to be saying, but to be honest, I don't know. I know the ADM model and have looked through it, but I think parents still have lots of question.

I have a lot of research that I've gotten through independent study outside of USA hockey. For instance, I have access through Princeton to research studies done at German Universities concerning olympic athletes (did they specialize, how did they train, etc). These studies are pretty interesting and I'll be mentioning them at my seminar.

I'll also be talking about how to train for hockey and what that specifically looks like.

[Cut Above]

Josh, it's great that you are working to further parental education. The obvious question, given your stated subject matter, is what will you be communicating that USA Hockey isn't communicating already? Or is the material the same and you don't feel enough people have been reached? Or do you have your own ideas that run counter to their message?

Some of what I'm saying USA hockey seems to be saying, but to be honest, I don't know. I know the ADM model and have looked through it, but I think parents still have lots of question.

I have a lot of research that I've gotten through independent study outside of USA hockey. For instance, I have access through Princeton to research studies done at German Universities concerning olympic athletes (did they specialize, how did they train, etc). These studies are pretty interesting and I'll be mentioning them at my seminar.

I'll also be talking about how to train for hockey and what that specifically looks like.

So you're going to tell the kids to take steroids?

German Studies: Andreas Krieger ie Heidi

[joshual]

So you're going to tell the kids to take steroids?

German Studies: Andreas Krieger ie Heidi

Nope.

[Cut Above]

So you're going to tell the kids to take steroids?

German Studies: Andreas Krieger ie Heidi

Nope.

Those silly Germans: always messing around

[InigoMontoya]

Maybe you should check out Princeton's research on how to address your target market. So far, you've told the ones that write the checks, that writing the checks is detrimental to the kids development. You've told the ones that would take time out of their busy day to learn something, that their children won't benefit from anything they have to teach them. Should be an interesting seminar.

[Outoftowner]

Committed Parents are the #1 key

I disagree actually. Committed parents often ruin hockey careers, especially in Minnesota. I'd say that instead of having committed parents, a more important ingredient would be having a passionate and committed player.

Spending more money on camps or training sessions at some sports facility won't do much in terms of creating a great hockey player unless the fundamental factors are correct. First, the training and camps have to be good. Second, the player has to want to train at 100%. He or she can train at 99% all day but that'll never make a great hockey player.

I agree about the training at 100%. Less then that and skill development, is minimal. If you can teach players to push past their comfort zone and can teach intensity, then you have a product. This is where I think parents mess up. When the parent's intensity is higher then the player's.

When my kids were little (mite) I had a take it or leave it attitude toward going to hockey. I would hear from other parents about them having to fight to get their little 4 year old in his hockey equipment or bribe him with McDonald's after practice to get him to want to go. I would ask my boys if they wanted to go to hockey and even give alternative activities we could be doing instead of going to practice. Then I was ok with the idea if they didn't want t go. When we went I'd ask if they were planning on trying their best... because we have other things we can be doing. They eventually developed ownership of their hockey and understood that it was their decision to go and therefore their responsibility to perform at their best.

Now they are older and still hold on to the NHL dream. We talk about the level of effort required to actually make it to the NHL. I leave it to them to put in the required effort (ownership of their dream). Occasionally, if their effort isn't their, I will remind them that it is their choice to play hockey and that we could just as easily be doing something else. That seems to motivate them, but really I still have somewhat of a take it or leave it attitude, yet try to facilitate opportunities for them as long as they take responsibility for their choice to play hockey and their desire to be good. I love the game, but I cant make them have a genuine love for hockey by forcing it on them. So I let them develop their own love and enjoy it when they do.

[joshual]

Maybe you should check out Princeton's research on how to address your target market. So far, you've told the ones that write the checks, that writing the checks is detrimental to the kids development. You've told the ones that would take time out of their busy day to learn something, that their children won't benefit from anything they have to teach them. Should be an interesting seminar.

You came to two false conclusions about what I've written. 1) You state that I think that writing checks it detrimental to a kids development. I believe I stated that spending money will not necessarily equal success. What I am trying to emphasize here is that you can't buy a good hockey player and that parents need to be smart consumers about what they buy. Hence, I am holding a seminar about what proper hockey training should look like. 2) You also assume - and I am not sure how - that I think parents have nothing to do with a child's hockey development. I stated that they are important, just as they are in the development of a child's academic abilities. I did not in any way state that children don't benefit from lessons taught from their parents.

InigoMontoya: do you still, after reading the posts that I've written, think the two conclusions you came to were accurate? I don't see how you could, but if you do, let me know what I said made you feel this way and I can clarify.