Lakeville South vs Winona? Please tell me this is false...

curtiscurve · Post by **curtiscurve** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:17 pm

What a bunch of crap. People on here complaining that LS was classless. Does anyone have any clue how bad it would have been if they had chose to keep their foot on Winona's throat? Everyone saying, "sit the 1st line for the third" would be crying if South had played straight up through the 2nd period and the score had been 19-0 at that point (which it would have been if that were the case). I've also heard this one "put the 5 pass rule in". This isn't squirt hockey. This is more of an insult as toying with your opponent by playing keep away is showing them up even more. Why not just have the top line switch jerseys after 2 so the score can be closer and Winona can feel better about the final score. I think some of the posters (parents) on here need to think of it this way, would you rather lose 19-0 to South or lose 7-2 to South JV (which would be the ultimate insult)? These days we live in a world where everyone gets a Valentine from everyone in their class, all teams get trophies or medals and we want people to stop being their best so others won't feel inferior. It's no wonder why this country is heading down the path of mediocrity.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:21 pm

curtiscurve wrote:What a bunch of crap. People on here complaining that LS was classless. Does anyone have any clue how bad it would have been if they had chose to keep their foot on Winona's throat? Everyone saying, "sit the 1st line for the third" would be crying if South had played straight up through the 2nd period and the score had been 19-0 at that point (which it would have been if that were the case). I've also heard this one "put the 5 pass rule in". This isn't squirt hockey. This is more of an insult as toying with your opponent by playing keep away is showing them up even more. Why not just have the top line switch jerseys after 2 so the score can be closer and Winona can feel better about the final score. I think some of the posters (parents) on here need to think of it this way, would you rather lose 19-0 to South or lose 7-2 to South JV (which would be the ultimate insult)? These days we live in a world where everyone gets a Valentine from everyone in their class, all teams get trophies or medals and we want people to stop being their best so others won't feel inferior. It's no wonder why this country is heading down the path of mediocrity.

Is this an attempt at sarcasm? Because you really can't be this clueless......can you?

They put up 81 shots, and yet you claim they didn't keep their foot on their throat? THey left their top players in the game at the end, and you're OK with that?

Ever heard of the term "sportsmanship"? This has nothing to do with handing out trophies or valentines....it's about treating your opponents with RESPECT.

RickyTicky · Post by **RickyTicky** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:16 am

Talked to an assistant coach today for LS JV team. He told me Weber told he D coach not to let Kloos out anymore about mid way through the 3rd but he played him anyways and Weber was pissed. He told me Weber went into the Winona locker room after the game and apologized to the coaches and players of Winona for the late goals... If this is true, people should reconsider their "classless" comments

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:37 am

muckandgrind wrote:
curtiscurve wrote:What a bunch of crap. People on here complaining that LS was classless. Does anyone have any clue how bad it would have been if they had chose to keep their foot on Winona's throat? Everyone saying, "sit the 1st line for the third" would be crying if South had played straight up through the 2nd period and the score had been 19-0 at that point (which it would have been if that were the case). I've also heard this one "put the 5 pass rule in". This isn't squirt hockey. This is more of an insult as toying with your opponent by playing keep away is showing them up even more. Why not just have the top line switch jerseys after 2 so the score can be closer and Winona can feel better about the final score. I think some of the posters (parents) on here need to think of it this way, would you rather lose 19-0 to South or lose 7-2 to South JV (which would be the ultimate insult)? These days we live in a world where everyone gets a Valentine from everyone in their class, all teams get trophies or medals and we want people to stop being their best so others won't feel inferior. It's no wonder why this country is heading down the path of mediocrity.
Is this an attempt at sarcasm? Because you really can't be this clueless......can you?

They put up 81 shots, and yet you claim they didn't keep their foot on their throat? THey left their top players in the game at the end, and you're OK with that?

Ever heard of the term "sportsmanship"? This has nothing to do with handing out trophies or valentines....it's about treating your opponents with RESPECT.

Most would say that playing the game by the rules and not playing down to your opponent is respecting them. The things that are being suggested many can take as disrespect/degrading.

If there is anyone here who thinks this score (and many of the others) could have been worse with the winning team scoring 35+ goals, they are kidding themselves. Had Kloos wanted to score 20 goals last night, I doubt he would have had issue. He throttled back quite a bit.

At what point does the mindset that these players are suiting up for a game just like anyone else matter? With a team like Eagan this year, Maple Grove, Lakeville South, and a few Class A teams, they could likely have similar results in 2+ section games. Because they happen to be in a bad section their players get less games?

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:41 am

Ok, so the assistant coach is

Same thing! And curtiscurve too. Maybe the same person?

Ultimately Weber can override the asst. coach. If not, than they have more issues at hand than running the score up.

Oh and Pauly probably didnt know what the score was, he was on the phone with 8th graders from Wayzata and Minnetonka

HappyHockeyFan · Post by **HappyHockeyFan** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:00 am

Tigers33 wrote:Ok, so the assistant coach is Same thing! And curtiscurve too. Maybe the same person?

Ultimately Weber can override the asst. coach. If not, than they have more issues at hand than running the score up.

Oh and Pauly probably didnt know what the score was, he was on the phone with 8th graders from Wayzata and Minnetonka

That last line is some funny S***, I dont care who ya are...

Rams1987 · Post by **Rams1987** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:39 am

Well said curtiscurve. Everyone wants to bash LS for poor sportsmanship and not "letting up" on Winona. By having this thread going and continuing to bring it up all you are doing is continuing to embarrass Winona. LS and their coaching staff shouldn't have to listen to this crap just because they have a good team and good players like Kloos. Maybe the MSHL should just make it a rule that the 1 vs. 8 game should just be a forfeit from now on so players, teams, parents, and coaches from these brutal teams don't get their feelings hurt. How would that go over with everyone?

Rams1987 · Post by **Rams1987** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:53 am

They ran (the score) up on us,” Winona coach Fran McDevitt said. “When the score is what it was, it’s like, why are your top kids out there playing defense?”

McDevitt should turn in his whistle and go find something better to do with his time because obviously he isn't doing anything to make Winona hockey better and more competitive.

What would you like LS do? Play shorthanded? Not try? Put in a pass or shot rule that makes you look even worse?

If Winona wants to whine and complain maybe they should just do everyone a favor and drop hockey so we don't have to start threads talking about teams being unsportsmanlike for actually being able to play hockey.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:18 am

RickyTicky wrote:Talked to an assistant coach today for LS JV team. He told me Weber told he D coach not to let Kloos out anymore about mid way through the 3rd but he played him anyways and Weber was pissed. He told me Weber went into the Winona locker room after the game and apologized to the coaches and players of Winona for the late goals... If this is true, people should reconsider their "classless" comments

This is laughable. So Weber has no control of his brilliant d-coach who stands 2.5 ft away from him on the bench? He can't see who's going out on the ice?!! If this is truly the case it demonstrates his incompetence even more. Give me a break. The head coach (and all assistants) know (and if not-shouldn't be coaching) who is on the ice at all times. That would almost be as bad as weber saying after a tight loss to a good team: "I told my forward coach to have kloos out there every other shift throughout the 3rd and on all power plays" after the coach " lost sight" of it then being "pissed off" at him for not doing so. I don't buy that bs.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:02 am

This was a no win situation for both teams. As I stated earlier, in my opinion you shut down your top guys but like many have suggested, would this be disrespecting your opponent? I had the chance to speak with Kloos and he mentioned he never even took a shot after the first period. Look at last nights Breck game where Iverson and Lidstrom are scoring points in the third period of a 15-1 game. To single out South seems a little over the top. Games like this have been happening in section play as far back as I can remember and no doubt will continue in the future. A six page thread ripping one team/coach for one particular occurance? When do we start in on Edina for putting up 15 on Kennedy? Heck, like many here have posted, we can't even get a two page thread going about the fact that Benilde has done the same thing 5 times. As Ricky Ticky said, time to move on.

Rich Clarke · Post by **Rich Clarke** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:31 am

Edina outscored Kennedy 4-1 after an 11-0 first period. Even in the first period, Edina's top line played only every fourth shift, and Hurley and Malmquist had only one goal each all game. Two goals were scored by a defenseman who's played JV most of the year, and most points were tallied by the third and fourth line. Those kids were indeed playing hard, but I would be shocked if anyone from Kennedy felt disrespected by the way Edina played. I suspect that is likely the case with a lot of these 1 vs. 8 blowouts.

The problem is an unfortunate by-product of the two class system. Pre-1994, teams like today's Kennedy, Winona, North Metro, etc. would have been displaced to the subsections by the better smaller schools (typically privates, but also better small programs). Scores still were often lopsided, but the 8-1 game was more the norm, while some games were competitive. The subsection teams usually lost 5-2 or something to the seventh and eighth seeds and we never saw the ridiculous blow outs we see now.

I agree that teams should bench their top lines once the score is well out of reach, not only out of sportsmanship but also to avoid needless risk of injury to a top player. But the problem stems from Class AA just not having 64 decent teams, forcing some struggling programs to end their seasons this way.

The only way to eliminate this would be to eliminate the rule that every team makes the playoffs. In AA, you could seed the top six teams and pretty much have all the teams that actually have a chance. (and give 1 and 2 byes). But then you tell teams like Armstrong and East Ridge that they're not even entitled to a chance. Or the top 7 teams? Or just let the teams that have no chance at all to forfeit? I don't think any of these ideas would be solutions.

I agree that other than sitting your top lines and power play, there is little a better team can respectfully do. These kids know going in that they're outclassed, and whether they give up ten or twenty goals things don't change. I think the big thing is how the kids treat one another--whether they're ridiculing the other team or engaging in other similar poor sportsmanship. If both teams play the game respectfully, they can leave the ice with their heads high and move on.

RickyTicky · Post by **RickyTicky** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:31 pm

South up 7-0 after 2 periods and it ended 7-0.. Is everyone morally ok with this? Or did the coaching staff do something wrong again? Perhaps too much class being shown this time?

Sorry, I had to.. on a serious note, congrats to Kloos as he took over the state leader in points today with 95 and will most likely have the title at the end of the year.. Well deserved!

Defensive Zone · Post by **Defensive Zone** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:19 am

curtiscurve wrote:What a bunch of crap. People on here complaining that LS was classless. Does anyone have any clue how bad it would have been if they had chose to keep their foot on Winona's throat? Everyone saying, "sit the 1st line for the third" would be crying if South had played straight up through the 2nd period and the score had been 19-0 at that point (which it would have been if that were the case). I've also heard this one "put the 5 pass rule in". This isn't squirt hockey. This is more of an insult as toying with your opponent by playing keep away is showing them up even more. Why not just have the top line switch jerseys after 2 so the score can be closer and Winona can feel better about the final score. I think some of the posters (parents) on here need to think of it this way, would you rather lose 19-0 to South or lose 7-2 to South JV (which would be the ultimate insult)? These days we live in a world where everyone gets a Valentine from everyone in their class, all teams get trophies or medals and we want people to stop being their best so others won't feel inferior. It's no wonder why this country is heading down the path of mediocrity.

Be nice to us inferior people. I am one that never received a Valentine from my 3rd grade sweet heart.

stopper1 · Post by **stopper1** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:52 am

Sats81 wrote:
RickyTicky wrote:Talked to an assistant coach today for LS JV team. He told me Weber told he D coach not to let Kloos out anymore about mid way through the 3rd but he played him anyways and Weber was pissed. He told me Weber went into the Winona locker room after the game and apologized to the coaches and players of Winona for the late goals... If this is true, people should reconsider their "classless" comments
This is laughable. So Weber has no control of his brilliant d-coach who stands 2.5 ft away from him on the bench? He can't see who's going out on the ice?!! If this is truly the case it demonstrates his incompetence even more. Give me a break. The head coach (and all assistants) know (and if not-shouldn't be coaching) who is on the ice at all times. That would almost be as bad as weber saying after a tight loss to a good team: "I told my forward coach to have kloos out there every other shift throughout the 3rd and on all power plays" after the coach " lost sight" of it then being "pissed off" at him for not doing so. I don't buy that bs.

Sats please tell me what your have against all the Lakeville coaches. According to you they are all idiots and have no clue about hockey. You need to grow up and give these guys some respect. This is high school hockey not juniors, not pro hockey. These coaches do and have done a fine job. Are you just a pissed off parent whose kid was cut and was supposed to play in the NHL. All you do is bash them which tells me if you any affiliation to lakeville hockey you are a big problem in that program. Show some support. Coaches make mistakes and bad judgement calls sometimes. Even the new so called "super staffs" for the North Boys and South Girls. From what I have seen there is no improvement. It was the same as it has been.

Jimbo99 · Post by **Jimbo99** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:49 am

stopper1 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
RickyTicky wrote:Talked to an assistant coach today for LS JV team. He told me Weber told he D coach not to let Kloos out anymore about mid way through the 3rd but he played him anyways and Weber was pissed. He told me Weber went into the Winona locker room after the game and apologized to the coaches and players of Winona for the late goals... If this is true, people should reconsider their "classless" comments
This is laughable. So Weber has no control of his brilliant d-coach who stands 2.5 ft away from him on the bench? He can't see who's going out on the ice?!! If this is truly the case it demonstrates his incompetence even more. Give me a break. The head coach (and all assistants) know (and if not-shouldn't be coaching) who is on the ice at all times. That would almost be as bad as weber saying after a tight loss to a good team: "I told my forward coach to have kloos out there every other shift throughout the 3rd and on all power plays" after the coach " lost sight" of it then being "pissed off" at him for not doing so. I don't buy that bs.
Sats please tell me what your have against all the Lakeville coaches. According to you they are all idiots and have no clue about hockey. You need to grow up and give these guys some respect. This is high school hockey not juniors, not pro hockey. These coaches do and have done a fine job. Are you just a pissed off parent whose kid was cut and was supposed to play in the NHL. All you do is bash them which tells me if you any affiliation to lakeville hockey you are a big problem in that program. Show some support. Coaches make mistakes and bad judgement calls sometimes. Even the new so called "super staffs" for the North Boys and South Girls. From what I have seen there is no improvement. It was the same as it has been.

Heck! - Check out his posts re. Nanne! Lakeville isn't his only axe to grind. I think he's just a very bitter man because he obviously knows "everything", yet no one listens to him.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:32 am

stopper1 wrote:
Sats81 wrote:
RickyTicky wrote:Talked to an assistant coach today for LS JV team. He told me Weber told he D coach not to let Kloos out anymore about mid way through the 3rd but he played him anyways and Weber was pissed. He told me Weber went into the Winona locker room after the game and apologized to the coaches and players of Winona for the late goals... If this is true, people should reconsider their "classless" comments
This is laughable. So Weber has no control of his brilliant d-coach who stands 2.5 ft away from him on the bench? He can't see who's going out on the ice?!! If this is truly the case it demonstrates his incompetence even more. Give me a break. The head coach (and all assistants) know (and if not-shouldn't be coaching) who is on the ice at all times. That would almost be as bad as weber saying after a tight loss to a good team: "I told my forward coach to have kloos out there every other shift throughout the 3rd and on all power plays" after the coach " lost sight" of it then being "pissed off" at him for not doing so. I don't buy that bs.
Sats please tell me what your have against all the Lakeville coaches. According to you they are all idiots and have no clue about hockey. You need to grow up and give these guys some respect. This is high school hockey not juniors, not pro hockey. These coaches do and have done a fine job. Are you just a pissed off parent whose kid was cut and was supposed to play in the NHL. All you do is bash them which tells me if you any affiliation to lakeville hockey you are a big problem in that program. Show some support. Coaches make mistakes and bad judgement calls sometimes. Even the new so called "super staffs" for the North Boys and South Girls. From what I have seen there is no improvement. It was the same as it has been.

I'm sorry I offended you. Just calling it like it is. If Weber has no control over his bench as Tiger said their problems run a heck of a lot deeper than they appear. When you tell your d-man coach not to let your star player out and he still goes out right before your eyes how hard is it to pull him off the ice? As far as the North coaching staff is concerned, as I have said before, its pretty difficult to turn around a program in 1 year. It is no coincidence all of the top players from LN and LS (with the exception of Kloos) have left early or defected to other schools. The new LN staff will be fine. They know hockey, they understand what it takes to build a sustainable program and most importantly (unlike the previous LN staff) they will get involved at the youth level and do what it takes to DEVELOP their players.

Sats81 · Post by **Sats81** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:39 am

Jimbo99 wrote:
stopper1 wrote:
Sats81 wrote: This is laughable. So Weber has no control of his brilliant d-coach who stands 2.5 ft away from him on the bench? He can't see who's going out on the ice?!! If this is truly the case it demonstrates his incompetence even more. Give me a break. The head coach (and all assistants) know (and if not-shouldn't be coaching) who is on the ice at all times. That would almost be as bad as weber saying after a tight loss to a good team: "I told my forward coach to have kloos out there every other shift throughout the 3rd and on all power plays" after the coach " lost sight" of it then being "pissed off" at him for not doing so. I don't buy that bs.
Sats please tell me what your have against all the Lakeville coaches. According to you they are all idiots and have no clue about hockey. You need to grow up and give these guys some respect. This is high school hockey not juniors, not pro hockey. These coaches do and have done a fine job. Are you just a pissed off parent whose kid was cut and was supposed to play in the NHL. All you do is bash them which tells me if you any affiliation to lakeville hockey you are a big problem in that program. Show some support. Coaches make mistakes and bad judgement calls sometimes. Even the new so called "super staffs" for the North Boys and South Girls. From what I have seen there is no improvement. It was the same as it has been.
Heck! - Check out his posts re. Nanne! Lakeville isn't his only axe to grind. I think he's just a very bitter man because he obviously knows "everything", yet no one listens to him.

Everyone listens to you though, hah jimbo?! With Nanne, I have watched him play 11 games this year. 17 pts in 24 games when you are a FORWARD who commits to the U at the beginning of your junior yr would raise eyes anywhere. While he does all the little things very well (backchecks, plays responsible in his d-zone, competes very hard, plays unselfishly, etc) He doesn't do anything overwhelmingly good that ELITE hs players do: skates well, scores a lot, creates opportunities out of nowhere, puts up big numbers, etc. For someone who gets a ton of ice time, plays on all special teams and is given every opportunity possible, one would expect more out of him. I have heard he is a great kid, a great team guy I just don't see him playing at the next level. I really hope he proves me wrong as hard working, humble kids deserve a shot.

mnhockfan99 · Post by **mnhockfan99** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:41 am

Not taking sides here - I think South has a talented team and hope they can make state so people can see Kloos...but if the head coach told his asst. coach not to play him and he still did - I have to believe the HC would notice he's on the ice and take charge of that situation right away. I know during a game a coach can get tunnel vision...but the coach has to take control there because the kid is almost always going to want to play...

A friend of mine used to coach at LS with Weber and had good things to say about the man...

hockeyking · Post by **hockeyking** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:52 am

I think Winona and/or Dodge County should be moved out of 1AA to 1A and Rochester Lourdes be moved from 1A to 1AA so that there is more of a balance in the two sections. Any thougths?

xy · Post by xy » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:57 am

Sats81 wrote:It is no coincidence all of the top players from LN and LS (with the exception of Kloos) have left early or defected to other schools.

So bad coaches at the high school level are the only reason all these players have left Lakeville? In no case did it have anything to do having a chance to go to Ann Arbor and take part in a world-class training program, with USA hockey footing the bill (Skjei, Osterberg, Mcneely)? Or the realization that another 25-game season of high school hockey simply might not provide enough of a chance for a goalie's development, given the unique circumstances of that position (Lindgren)? Or the benefits of attending St. Thomas, an academically rigorous private school which is free to include lessons regarding religion which might possibly be important to players and their families (I find it hard to believe that the unique characteristics of a St. Thomas Academy education had nothing to do with at least some of the transfers)?

I have absolutely no idea what kind of coach Schmitz was. I know a little bit about Weber, and he's no Willard Ikola but I've certainly seen worse high school coaches. But this idea that bad high school coaches are the sole cause of all the kids leaving Lakeville, and all ills within their hockey programs, is really taking things a bit far.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:22 pm

This topic, kids leaving Lakeville has been beaten to death, but lets not confuse player development with why kids leave. My sons got absolutely fantastic coaching at each youth level on the way up. You could argue that many of the kids left because they had refined their games to the point they felt it necessary to compete at a higher level. The players have been there for a number of years now so the youth program is not the problem. Having been as close to the situation as I have been I can say with certainty that the coaches at the HS level have been part of the equation. There are many other reasons, almost all of which are valid, why families have made the choices they have.

Right or wrong sometimes perception becomes reality, Weber was deemed inadequate by many before he even even had a chance, we'll never know how he might have done had all those STA people stuck around, but having seen the behind the scenes recruiting and doomsday predictions of what would become of their son if they didn't leave, its not a surprise at all that people feel compelled to get out. If nothing else at least Kloos has proven you don't have to leave.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:46 pm

Rich Clarke wrote: I agree that other than sitting your top lines and power play, there is little a better team can respectfully do. These kids know going in that they're outclassed, and whether they give up ten or twenty goals things don't change. I think the big thing is how the kids treat one another--whether they're ridiculing the other team or engaging in other similar poor sportsmanship. If both teams play the game respectfully, they can leave the ice with their heads high and move on.

well said

hawkhockey · Post by **hawkhockey** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:13 am

spin-o-rama wrote:
Rich Clarke wrote: I agree that other than sitting your top lines and power play, there is little a better team can respectfully do. These kids know going in that they're outclassed, and whether they give up ten or twenty goals things don't change. I think the big thing is how the kids treat one another--whether they're ridiculing the other team or engaging in other similar poor sportsmanship. If both teams play the game respectfully, they can leave the ice with their heads high and move on.
well said

thank you. that is exactly what makes this. in the game last year there was nothing but respect from both sides. i dont know about this year but i would have to assume the south kids arent just gonna start ripping on the winona guys. i mean at 19-0 what is there left to say? and what could you possibly say when you're down 19-0?

duluth dave · Post by **duluth dave** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:20 pm

I can not believe that people are alright with this. It,s poor sportsmanship, what if your star player gets hurt in the last minute of a 18 to 0 game. Im not blaming the kids but the coaching staff- and questioning the mentality of some people in this forum.

Neuuman · Post by **Neuuman** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:55 pm

duluth dave wrote:I can not believe that people are alright with this. It,s poor sportsmanship, what if your star player gets hurt in the last minute of a 18 to 0 game. Im not blaming the kids but the coaching staff- and questioning the mentality of some people in this forum.

Every possible opinion has been expressed here - almost all valid. Can we just shut this post down already??? As RickyTicky said about a thousand years ago on this post - LET'S MOVE ON! ! !