Hockey Dad 41 -
I have no reason why you took down your post. I'm a big boy and can take you calling me clueless. I have had enough success at coaching and have been asked to coach enough teams to know that I'm not.
The "human element" that you speak about should be one thing: FUN. Your kids all know who is the best team and they have no problem playing Rochester's 2nd and 3rd best teams because they just want to play hockey.
No one enjoys being blown out 0-6 or worse... and they don't need those games to tell them that they need to get better. Your kids are a lot smarter than you think they are. Whether at the A, B, or C level, the best hockey experiences are those that are competitive and allow your kids to be hockey players...
What happened in D9 is an example of a district recognizing their weakness and structuring the majority of their seasonal play to reflect that weakness.
Who are the victims here? Ask your kids if they care if Rochester Red played an independent schedule or not...
Seriously, go ask them.
Is Rochester Red the 12th team in the D9 Peewee A playoffs?
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HockeyDad41
- Posts: 1238
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:40 pm
Nice.Concerned Hockey Coach wrote: Please don't be active in your association... you are exactly the reason why AAA may have a shot at breaking through here in the winter... ugh.
The sooner winter AAA hockey gets here the better in my opinion.
Not sure how my position of being against screwing over 12-13 year olds who worked hard all season to make the playoffs and then had this happen really has anything to do with that?
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
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HockeyDad41
- Posts: 1238
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:40 pm
Concerned Hockey Coach wrote:Hockey Dad 41 -
I have no reason why you took down your post. I'm a big boy and can take you calling me clueless. I have had enough success at coaching and have been asked to coach enough teams to know that I'm not.
The "human element" that you speak about should be one thing: FUN. Your kids all know who is the best team and they have no problem playing Rochester's 2nd and 3rd best teams because they just want to play hockey.
No one enjoys being blown out 0-6 or worse... and they don't need those games to tell them that they need to get better. Your kids are a lot smarter than you think they are. Whether at the A, B, or C level, the best hockey experiences are those that are competitive and allow your kids to be hockey players...
What happened in D9 is an example of a district recognizing their weakness and structuring the majority of their seasonal play to reflect that weakness.
Who are the victims here? Ask your kids if they care if Rochester Red played an independent schedule or not...
Seriously, go ask them.
I don't have a problem with them playing an independent schedule. I have a problem with them getting into the tournament the way they did. I'm with Fredrick it stinks.
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
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Concerned Hockey Coach
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:36 am
Well ok on the AAA issue... that's for another thread.HockeyDad41 wrote:
Nice.
The sooner winter AAA hockey gets here the better in my opinion.
Not sure how my position of being against screwing over 12-13 year olds who worked hard all season to make the playoffs and then had this happen really has anything to do with that?
Who are these 12/13 year old victims? Did Rochester Red not work hard? Do you know something I don't?
By the way... what does "this happen" mean? What has happened to get you so fired up against Rochester Red? Is this personal? Are you with Northfield, Owatonna or Mankato - one of which won't go to regionals now? And if so, do you think they have a "right" to not have to have Rochester Red in the playoffs? Where does your image of the "right" system come from?
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Concerned Hockey Coach
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:36 am
What is the "way they did?" You know that D9 approved it right? Oh and please identify the victims who have been wronged by Rochester Red and D9 this year?HockeyDad41 wrote:Concerned Hockey Coach wrote:Hockey Dad 41 -
I have no reason why you took down your post. I'm a big boy and can take you calling me clueless. I have had enough success at coaching and have been asked to coach enough teams to know that I'm not.
The "human element" that you speak about should be one thing: FUN. Your kids all know who is the best team and they have no problem playing Rochester's 2nd and 3rd best teams because they just want to play hockey.
No one enjoys being blown out 0-6 or worse... and they don't need those games to tell them that they need to get better. Your kids are a lot smarter than you think they are. Whether at the A, B, or C level, the best hockey experiences are those that are competitive and allow your kids to be hockey players...
What happened in D9 is an example of a district recognizing their weakness and structuring the majority of their seasonal play to reflect that weakness.
Who are the victims here? Ask your kids if they care if Rochester Red played an independent schedule or not...
Seriously, go ask them.
I don't have a problem with them playing an independent schedule. I have a problem with them getting into the tournament the way they did. I'm with Fredrick it stinks.
Thanks, looking forward to it. Fred, DogEatDog and Goldy and Observer haven't helped me get to the bottom of this injustice... which necessitates that there are victims.
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Marty McSorely
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little9BigRed
- Posts: 16
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The victims are the other Distric 9 teams that would like to play tougher competition. Its been very tough for any of the dist 9 teams to schedule a game with a top 40 team. I've talked with a dist 9 board member today and he did tell me that they voted to allow the independent schedule and to let play in districts but it was a tial 1 year period to let RR ease into district 9. He did state he didn't think they would allow it next year. Their concern is in order for District 9 to develop they have to raise the level of competition and Rochester can help by playing all teams in dist 9. Weather Rochester wants to field 2 equal teams or just 1, that is for them to decide. My guess is they will go with one since they don't need to develope 4 high school teams, they just take the easy way and stack the Private Lourdes Team and play in 1A and hope they beat A.L. or West. There are alot of simularities between the Youth program and the way the high school teams fold out.
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Concerned Hockey Coach
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:36 am
Little Red Riding Hood - Thank you for the informative post.little9BigRed wrote:The victims are the other Distric 9 teams that would like to play tougher competition. Its been very tough for any of the dist 9 teams to schedule a game with a top 40 team. I've talked with a dist 9 board member today and he did tell me that they voted to allow the independent schedule and to let play in districts but it was a tial 1 year period to let RR ease into district 9. He did state he didn't think they would allow it next year. Their concern is in order for District 9 to develop they have to raise the level of competition and Rochester can help by playing all teams in dist 9. Weather Rochester wants to field 2 equal teams or just 1, that is for them to decide. My guess is they will go with one since they don't need to develope 4 high school teams, they just take the easy way and stack the Private Lourdes Team and play in 1A and hope they beat A.L. or West. There are alot of simularities between the Youth program and the way the high school teams fold out.
I hope Frederick puts this to rest. Let D9 figure out whether it was a good exercise and worth doing again next year. It's their decision. My opinion is that they should compromise and have Rochester Red play all D9 teams once rather than twice. Hopefully some sort of compromise happens next year.
With regard to the Top 40 issue... I coach a top 30 program and we've never had any inquiry from any D9 team. I think part of it is lack of effort. There are lots of teams that would scrimmage Owatonna or Mankato... no other teams have shown the ability to not avoid a blowout - our team has enough of those in our District to not want more.
Good luck!
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Expressor16
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:40 am
Nothing new
OK, interesting read. But most are very mis-informed.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
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frederick61
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:54 pm
Re: Nothing new
This is your first post on the subject and you joined the forum today. Before I try and counter your points, what are your credentials to offer such pronouncements as fact.Expressor16 wrote:OK, interesting read. But most are very mis-informed.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
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Concerned Hockey Coach
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:36 am
Re: Nothing new
Thanks Expressor. I know Frederick raised the issue that this is your first post, etc.... my guess is that you were made aware of all the Rochester and D9 bashing going on here... allegations of Rochester treating everyone else unfairly, so you came to check on it yourself and decided to post the truth...Expressor16 wrote:OK, interesting read. But most are very mis-informed.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
Thank you... Frederick61 and the others will likely now bash you as a liar or a Rochester parent/coach because you aren't playing into the simple narrative that they want to have happened here... In fact, they probably believe that I am you posting in a different name.
Of course the D9 website lists all the directors and board members' phone numbers and maybe emails... too bad Frederick61 the blogger/reporter didn't due his due diligence in the beginning. Not that hearing that every thing here is kosher would have stopped him and others from acting like Northfield's skaters, who work really hard, have just been stripped of their eligibility.
Sounds like D9 and Rochester have done what they view as best for everyone. Great job!
Re: Nothing new
Frederick,frederick61 wrote:This is your first post on the subject and you joined the forum today. Before I try and counter your points, what are your credentials to offer such pronouncements as fact.Expressor16 wrote:OK, interesting read. But most are very mis-informed.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
This may be Expressor16's first (and second) post under that user name, but he is far from a forum virgin!! Although I am not by any means one of the wise and aged ones on the forum, I know Expressor and he is in a position that he would be aware of these internal workings. . . And, no, it is not me!!
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frederick61
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:54 pm
Re: Nothing new
So why does he need to post this under a different name?woodley wrote:Frederick,frederick61 wrote:This is your first post on the subject and you joined the forum today. Before I try and counter your points, what are your credentials to offer such pronouncements as fact.Expressor16 wrote:OK, interesting read. But most are very mis-informed.
From the very beginning of the formation of District 9, the District 9 board, made up of reps from every association, Minnesota Hockey and Rochester discussed this issue extensively. The result was the Red teams would be able to play an independant schedule and be seeded into the district tournament. Nothing was changed in the last minute.
The tournament was never just an eight team tournament. The bracket for the district tournament location would be eight teams but the district wanted and always planned on some play-in games to get it down to eight at the district tournament location.
Had the red teams played in the league the results would have likely been the same.
Rochester is a stronger program, no news there. The district and Rochester have worked very well together. Would there be some things I would change? Yes. Has it worked pretty well this year? Yes.
The victim card is being used by some. I want to teach my kids that you have to compete hard and the results will speak for themselves. If the results are no wins or one or two wins, how would I be helping my son learn about life if I conveyed to him that he is a victim for not getting into playoffs?
I always remember Don Lucia's quote "My dream coaching job is Head Hockey Coach of a hockey team at an orphanage." Parents tend to screw things up a lot.
This may be Expressor16's first (and second) post under that user name, but he is far from a forum virgin!! Although I am not by any means one of the wise and aged ones on the forum, I know Expressor and he is in a position that he would be aware of these internal workings. . . And, no, it is not me!!
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HockeyDad41
- Posts: 1238
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:40 pm
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Expressor16
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:40 am
Fred.
I am Dave Swenson. Someone told me this discussion was happening on here so I thought I would set the record straight.
As we are coming to an end to another hockey season, I think District 9, the board, Tom and all the volunteers have done a very good job.
Can we make improvements in the future, you bet. Will we make changes for next year? I think so. All the associations have representation on the board and a voice. I think the Rochester issue will continue to be a discussion point for the next several years as we work to help every association and hockey in southern Minnesota improve the overall hockey experience for kids. Let's all continue to support the achievements that our teams are earning and encourage them to do their best in districts and regions.
See you at the rink,
Dave Swenson
I am Dave Swenson. Someone told me this discussion was happening on here so I thought I would set the record straight.
As we are coming to an end to another hockey season, I think District 9, the board, Tom and all the volunteers have done a very good job.
Can we make improvements in the future, you bet. Will we make changes for next year? I think so. All the associations have representation on the board and a voice. I think the Rochester issue will continue to be a discussion point for the next several years as we work to help every association and hockey in southern Minnesota improve the overall hockey experience for kids. Let's all continue to support the achievements that our teams are earning and encourage them to do their best in districts and regions.
See you at the rink,
Dave Swenson
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frederick61
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:54 pm
Dave,
I appreciate your stepping forward to clarify the matter. I would defer getting into the details of what happened in this whole matter, but simply ask this.
In your opinion should a team be allowed to play a schedule independent of the district in which it is affiliated and then be allowed to play in the district playoffs? If so, is the rational for such an exemption solely the potential strength of the team relative to the other district teams? Finally, should that “exempted team” be given the highest seed and the easiest path to regional as part of the exemption.
I appreciate your stepping forward to clarify the matter. I would defer getting into the details of what happened in this whole matter, but simply ask this.
In your opinion should a team be allowed to play a schedule independent of the district in which it is affiliated and then be allowed to play in the district playoffs? If so, is the rational for such an exemption solely the potential strength of the team relative to the other district teams? Finally, should that “exempted team” be given the highest seed and the easiest path to regional as part of the exemption.
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Expressor16
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:40 am
Fred,
You ask the very questions that have been discussed for many years and for the last year as District 9 was organized. My opinion is my opinion and carries very little weight in the discussion. What counts is what each association wants for it's program and how that impacts the rest of the district. Are there sometimes opposing forces at work? Yes. I think we always have to go back to our basic purpose. As I see it, District 9's purpose is to provide a sanctioning body for the purpose of seeding teams to Minnesota Hockey's Regional tournaments that lead to the state tournaments.
One of the realities of our District is that Rochester is so much larger than any of the other associations. That fact create circumstances that we, as a district, have to evaluate and manage so we provide a fair system for our basic purpose, to seed teams to the regional tournaments.
Now, I realize that many would prefer the Rochester PWA and BA teams to play in the league, it is not a requirement of any district to administer leagues. In other words, there could be no league play, just a seeding process that would lead to district playdowns.
As I am not familiar with the BA Red Team from Rochester, you know I am familiar with the PWA situation. I don't care where you put the Red team, they will have to beat the top teams from District 9 to get the number seed from District 9 going into the regional. They may have to face Owatonna and Mankato to secure the top seed. If they were seeded lower they would still have to face the top teams from District 9. If any team gets beat in the quarters, they will have the chance to play back through.
Is it fair? What is fair? If a team plays in the league, goes undefeated and beats teams by large margins, one could ask is that fair. Our own team in Owatonna played the league games and then scheduled tournaments and non-league games that would provide strong challenges to our players. We played Rochester Red, Bloomington Kennedy, Fargo, Detroit Lakes, Waconia, Apple Valley, Inver Grove Heights and Mound West Tonka. It gave our team several strong, high bar, games that help them understand where the bar is.
I believe any team can play in District 9 and still challenge it's teams with other avenues of competition and accomplish their development goals. That, is only one opinion. Each association needs to make that determination. As that happens it is my personal hope that all associations can support the need for us all to compete against each other as well as to seek out bigger challenges for our players. Hopefully, one day, playing in District 9 challenge our players like nowhere else.
See you at the rink.
You ask the very questions that have been discussed for many years and for the last year as District 9 was organized. My opinion is my opinion and carries very little weight in the discussion. What counts is what each association wants for it's program and how that impacts the rest of the district. Are there sometimes opposing forces at work? Yes. I think we always have to go back to our basic purpose. As I see it, District 9's purpose is to provide a sanctioning body for the purpose of seeding teams to Minnesota Hockey's Regional tournaments that lead to the state tournaments.
One of the realities of our District is that Rochester is so much larger than any of the other associations. That fact create circumstances that we, as a district, have to evaluate and manage so we provide a fair system for our basic purpose, to seed teams to the regional tournaments.
Now, I realize that many would prefer the Rochester PWA and BA teams to play in the league, it is not a requirement of any district to administer leagues. In other words, there could be no league play, just a seeding process that would lead to district playdowns.
As I am not familiar with the BA Red Team from Rochester, you know I am familiar with the PWA situation. I don't care where you put the Red team, they will have to beat the top teams from District 9 to get the number seed from District 9 going into the regional. They may have to face Owatonna and Mankato to secure the top seed. If they were seeded lower they would still have to face the top teams from District 9. If any team gets beat in the quarters, they will have the chance to play back through.
Is it fair? What is fair? If a team plays in the league, goes undefeated and beats teams by large margins, one could ask is that fair. Our own team in Owatonna played the league games and then scheduled tournaments and non-league games that would provide strong challenges to our players. We played Rochester Red, Bloomington Kennedy, Fargo, Detroit Lakes, Waconia, Apple Valley, Inver Grove Heights and Mound West Tonka. It gave our team several strong, high bar, games that help them understand where the bar is.
I believe any team can play in District 9 and still challenge it's teams with other avenues of competition and accomplish their development goals. That, is only one opinion. Each association needs to make that determination. As that happens it is my personal hope that all associations can support the need for us all to compete against each other as well as to seek out bigger challenges for our players. Hopefully, one day, playing in District 9 challenge our players like nowhere else.
See you at the rink.
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BadgerBob82
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:49 am
Fred:
I am so glad Mr. Swenson set the record straight and identified himself to provide credibility to you. Your change in tone would lead me to believe you know Mr. Swenson? I assume Mr. Swenson knows you? I find it incredible that you started this thread, continued to badmouth Rochester and D9, attacked everyone that has defended D9's decision, yet you could have contacted Mr. Swenson and cleared it up in the beginning.
I repeatedly said D9 was formed with Rochester and all associations knowing the size dicrepancy of Rochester and the lack of playing levels D9 could offer the ENTIRE Rochester association. (A,B1,B2,C and girl levels) The "RED" teams would have played a district league schedule if they were required to. But clear minded people realized it would serve no purpose to anyone. RED was not an automatic #1 seed. In fact, if there would not have been an East/West division, Mankato would have been the #1 since they beat RED twice.
How could Northfield be mad when the Black team beat them twice? Imagine if D9 had seeded RED last place in the east? And they knock out New Ulm, very likely to get the #4 play down game with D8?
I am not familiar with your "blog", but my first impression of you is that you are a coach of a D9 association Pee-Wee team that thought you were locked into the tournament and now have a play down game.
Talk about self-centered. The RED team made you have to earn your way in with a play down game after you thought you "earned" a spot by playing a league schedule? I imagine if you win and get into the tournament, all will be fine? If you get beat and your season is ended, you will take this matter to the Supreme Court?
I am so glad Mr. Swenson set the record straight and identified himself to provide credibility to you. Your change in tone would lead me to believe you know Mr. Swenson? I assume Mr. Swenson knows you? I find it incredible that you started this thread, continued to badmouth Rochester and D9, attacked everyone that has defended D9's decision, yet you could have contacted Mr. Swenson and cleared it up in the beginning.
I repeatedly said D9 was formed with Rochester and all associations knowing the size dicrepancy of Rochester and the lack of playing levels D9 could offer the ENTIRE Rochester association. (A,B1,B2,C and girl levels) The "RED" teams would have played a district league schedule if they were required to. But clear minded people realized it would serve no purpose to anyone. RED was not an automatic #1 seed. In fact, if there would not have been an East/West division, Mankato would have been the #1 since they beat RED twice.
How could Northfield be mad when the Black team beat them twice? Imagine if D9 had seeded RED last place in the east? And they knock out New Ulm, very likely to get the #4 play down game with D8?
I am not familiar with your "blog", but my first impression of you is that you are a coach of a D9 association Pee-Wee team that thought you were locked into the tournament and now have a play down game.
Talk about self-centered. The RED team made you have to earn your way in with a play down game after you thought you "earned" a spot by playing a league schedule? I imagine if you win and get into the tournament, all will be fine? If you get beat and your season is ended, you will take this matter to the Supreme Court?
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frederick61
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:54 pm
Dave,
I am trying to be clear about this as I can be. What you are suggesting is that the primary purpose for a district board is to seed teams to a regional tourney. Second, it is a reality (at least in D9) that a large association has to be evaluated and managed differently to provide a fair system for that basic purpose.
Third, there is no requirement for districts to manage a league. (A side note does that mean any association is also not required to play in D9 but will be eligible for playoffs or is there some size limit that if that association exceeds they can then be exempted?).
Four, and this is toughest for me to grasp, that it does not matter where the teams are seeded, they will have to beat the top teams anyway. If I put the first point together with this point, your vision is that a district’s seeding process is easy (tough teams will always win, throw the names in a hat and start drawing).
Finally, I want to make certain that I understand the last point you made. It seems to confirm the idea that any team in D9 can do whatever they chose to be competitive including opting out of regular season play, but you want the associations to support the need to compete against each other as well as seeking bigger challenges for D9 players.
Isn’t this last point in conflict with the original idea that you started with, that a larger association (in this case the Rochester Red) must be managed differently to provide a fair system.
I am trying to be clear about this as I can be. What you are suggesting is that the primary purpose for a district board is to seed teams to a regional tourney. Second, it is a reality (at least in D9) that a large association has to be evaluated and managed differently to provide a fair system for that basic purpose.
Third, there is no requirement for districts to manage a league. (A side note does that mean any association is also not required to play in D9 but will be eligible for playoffs or is there some size limit that if that association exceeds they can then be exempted?).
Four, and this is toughest for me to grasp, that it does not matter where the teams are seeded, they will have to beat the top teams anyway. If I put the first point together with this point, your vision is that a district’s seeding process is easy (tough teams will always win, throw the names in a hat and start drawing).
Finally, I want to make certain that I understand the last point you made. It seems to confirm the idea that any team in D9 can do whatever they chose to be competitive including opting out of regular season play, but you want the associations to support the need to compete against each other as well as seeking bigger challenges for D9 players.
Isn’t this last point in conflict with the original idea that you started with, that a larger association (in this case the Rochester Red) must be managed differently to provide a fair system.
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BadgerBob82
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:49 am
HockeyDad41:
I have followed your postings regarding your mite age player. I find your posting on this topic humorous given your position on topics impacting metro associations, including your own and Bernard McBain. You have chosen the development path for your "future NHL'er" that many, including myself find troubling. I know you are saying the MM shine is dulling a bit, but I think you will admit that you will do whatever you think is right for your son's development.
The Rochester Association was backed into a corner being kicked out of D8. (D8 had tried on two previous occasions and MN Hockey told them to wait for a comprehensive redistricting plan for the State) So D8 did in fact kick Rochester out, MN Hockey only approved it! Rochester came into D9, laid out their association numbers, levels and team projections, and the leagues were formed with the RED team not playing a league schedule. EVERYONE knew they wanted to play toward a State tournament berth.
And to whomever has made comparision with the FIRE and Kansas City. Neither are based in MN, neither are in the MINN/KOTA district of USA Hockey and neither belong to D9 with other teams playing district schedules. Apples to oranges!
I have followed your postings regarding your mite age player. I find your posting on this topic humorous given your position on topics impacting metro associations, including your own and Bernard McBain. You have chosen the development path for your "future NHL'er" that many, including myself find troubling. I know you are saying the MM shine is dulling a bit, but I think you will admit that you will do whatever you think is right for your son's development.
The Rochester Association was backed into a corner being kicked out of D8. (D8 had tried on two previous occasions and MN Hockey told them to wait for a comprehensive redistricting plan for the State) So D8 did in fact kick Rochester out, MN Hockey only approved it! Rochester came into D9, laid out their association numbers, levels and team projections, and the leagues were formed with the RED team not playing a league schedule. EVERYONE knew they wanted to play toward a State tournament berth.
And to whomever has made comparision with the FIRE and Kansas City. Neither are based in MN, neither are in the MINN/KOTA district of USA Hockey and neither belong to D9 with other teams playing district schedules. Apples to oranges!
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BadgerBob82
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:49 am
Fred:
Sorry to answer the question you asked Mr. Swenson, but you seem confused on Rochester Red.
Rochester Red is NOT an independant association. Rochester RED is not a group of parents that made a deal with D9. Rochester RED is not a team whose coach made "back room dealings". Rochester RED is one of 3 Pee-Wee A teams from the Rochester Association of 1,000 players. The team is comprised of the top 17 players from Rochester. They are considered the A1 team from Rochester. The Black and Gold are considered the A2 teams. No other association in MN has 3 A level teams.
Rochester and D9 agreed having the RED Pee-Wee or Bantam teams play a District schedule would serve no purpose.
You seem mad only that up until last week, you thought your team was a top 4 seed and locked into the District tournament. Knowing that 3 teams advance to Regionals and the 4th place team plays D8's 4th place team, you had to figure your team had a 50-50 chance to advance to Regionals.
Oh, by the way, you make repeated mention of Rochester showing no intention of being included in the State tournament process, why do you think Rochester requested and was granted the Pee-Wee A Regional Tournament? You think Rochester would want to host a tournament without a team participating? If you want to get mad, be mad that Rochester was so arrogant to ask to host the Regional tournament, as if it was assured a spot in the tournament.
Also, you repeatedly pointed to their schedule not showing Districts. Why did they have Regionals on their schedule?
Sorry to answer the question you asked Mr. Swenson, but you seem confused on Rochester Red.
Rochester Red is NOT an independant association. Rochester RED is not a group of parents that made a deal with D9. Rochester RED is not a team whose coach made "back room dealings". Rochester RED is one of 3 Pee-Wee A teams from the Rochester Association of 1,000 players. The team is comprised of the top 17 players from Rochester. They are considered the A1 team from Rochester. The Black and Gold are considered the A2 teams. No other association in MN has 3 A level teams.
Rochester and D9 agreed having the RED Pee-Wee or Bantam teams play a District schedule would serve no purpose.
You seem mad only that up until last week, you thought your team was a top 4 seed and locked into the District tournament. Knowing that 3 teams advance to Regionals and the 4th place team plays D8's 4th place team, you had to figure your team had a 50-50 chance to advance to Regionals.
Oh, by the way, you make repeated mention of Rochester showing no intention of being included in the State tournament process, why do you think Rochester requested and was granted the Pee-Wee A Regional Tournament? You think Rochester would want to host a tournament without a team participating? If you want to get mad, be mad that Rochester was so arrogant to ask to host the Regional tournament, as if it was assured a spot in the tournament.
Also, you repeatedly pointed to their schedule not showing Districts. Why did they have Regionals on their schedule?