March 5- (2) Elk River vs (1) Duluth East- 7AA Final @ DECC

[noonan007]

This game will come down to defense, starting with the goalies. If Cooper can find a way to get in the zone, which he hasn't been in for awhile, and the East D play D first, stay out of the box and get the puck up ice quickly ER will have a long, tough day. ER will have to have a tremendous performance from a young goaltender and their D will have to play just as well to stop an East team that will roll three, sometimes four, solid lines that are all quick and all dangerous and put 35-50 SOG per game. ER's top line is very good but they are going to run into one of the best group of D in the state. If Cooper is not sharp and lets in a soft one early it is a totally different game but if he is on and East gets a lead they are very hard to come back on. As for a home ice advantage..East has one but just barely. To this group of players this rink has not been kind to them. The fan attendance will be countered by the teenage belief that there is such a thing as a curse. I have seen most of East's game this year and I can tell you that if they get the kind of goaltending they got from Cooper early in the season they are close to unbeatable...if not it is anyones game. Ask Forest Lake about that.

Cooper comes through....DE 4 ER1

[Penalty Shot]

Great post and analysis of the game. Cooper has always played well under pressure, I dont think the pressure came in the Forest Lake game until there were only 3 minutes left in the third (because East would have had time to get a goal and tie it up in their own minds) at which point Cooper came up BIG a couple of times. By the way what a great game the Moberg kid played, he made some great stops and covered a lot of rebounds against a team that looked much more determined then the East team that showed up for the last 3 semi-finals. The semi final game has been tough on the Hounds the past three years but I dont think you can compare this team in the same breath as the last three years. This is a very tight knit group of kids who have had some great success at differnt times as well as great disapointments. I look for the senior leadership to stand up and take care of the hard working Elks Thursday night as the Forest Lake game showed East has many differnt weapons that can stand up and win a battle when it matters and there is no one on this team that thinks they are more important than getting the WIN.

[noonan007]

Very true...Moberg was outstanding. If I was a college scout I would be keeping close tabs on him. He's big, lanky ,athletic and obviously performs well under pressure.

[ImissMYhockey]

Of all the section championship games East has played in under Randolph, they have lost 1, and yes it was to Elk River. However, it shows randolph can get his players ready. It will be interesting to see how the freshman goalie from ER will handle this game. Yes he has played against some solid competition but never infront of thousands of people for a section championship. I look for Cooper to play solid and East's 1st line to slam in a few.
Hounds-5
Elks-2

[nungitchida]

Have to go with East on this one, who brought up shots on net,they don't win games goals win games,if you don't score you don't win,
enough said on that subject

[Duluth East Hockey Fan]

Hounds 3 Elks 0...Thats my prediction. However, the Hounds have to come ready to play. First, I agree with the early post, the D have to play D and stay out of the box, and they can't afford to be killing off anymore 5 on 3's. I'd also like to see them get Welinski a few more shifts, he can create scoring chances from the point, something they really need. With that, their front line guys have to get to the net and try and rattle the young ER netminder. If the forwards settle for perimeter shots with no traffic the youngster could get comfortable and start to live in the moment. If that happens, well thats the beauty of single elimination. The kid could get hot and East has shown an inability to finish around the net at times. I think if you see the likes of Nelson, Mellin and Lutzka getting to the net, reeking havoc on the freshmans crease, they'll get to him and the Hounds could have a big night. Of course all of this is contingent on Matt Cooper playing with some confidence, which I believe he will. He certainly can make the one big save that wins the game for his team, but it still comes down to if the defensemen can do their job. If they do, let Coop see some shots clearly from the outside he'll be fantastic.


Can't wait to be at the DECC on Thursday!!!

[east hockey]

Of all the section championship games East has played in under Randolph, they have lost 1, and yes it was to Elk River. However, it shows randolph can get his players ready. It will be interesting to see how the freshman goalie from ER will handle this game. Yes he has played against some solid competition but never infront of thousands of people for a section championship. I look for Cooper to play solid and East's 1st line to slam in a few.
Hounds-5
Elks-2

A small correction; East's section final loss was to Cloquet in 2002. Their loss to Elk River was in the 1999 semifinals.

Lee

[tommyjosh]

Hopefully we will hear the call of the ELK on thur. night my prediction ELKS 2 EAST 0 with the freshman getting a shutout and going to STATE!! That would be kinda cool.

[Indians forever]

Elk River by 2 goals.

[karl(east)]

Random facts:

Duluth East has taken 1058 shots on goal this season, for an average of 39.2 per game. They have allowed their opponents 454, or 16.8/game.

Duluth East has not been held under 2 goals all season. In games in which they score 2 goals, they are 3-2-1. In games in which they score over 2 goals, they are 20-1 (the blemish being against Blaine).

East has allowed 3+ goals 6 times this year and is 3-3 in those games (one of the wins being against Elk River).

Duluth East has not blown a third period lead all year, not even in a game that they would go on to win or tie (Pointstreak's summary on the Centennial game is wrong; the Cougars scored first in the 3rd).

East...
When leading after 1: 16-1-1
When tied after 1: 5-2
When behind after 1: 2-0
When leading after 2: 21-0
When tied after 2: 1-1-1
When behind after 2: 1-2
In OT: 1-0-1

[bulldog14411]

Even though he said that, if they dont like it up here get out of our section.

I dont think Elk River has much of a choice of where they are placed. They were in 7 for a few years then went to 4 and now back at 7. Maybe they will move back to 8 and everyone can be happy.

Even Tony Sarsland didn't like it when Elk River was placed back into section 7; he said it wasn't a good fit and I tend to agree.

But here is the problem...there aren't enough schools who opt up to fill 7AA. If you had more teams will to do that (like Cloquet, East and Grand Rapids), you'd have a section of all northern teams. So the MSHSL has to do something (unless you think having a three or four team section will work). Sure, you could move Brainerd (who played for a number of years in 7AA) and St Cloud Tech move to 7AA. This would make sense as they're geographically closer than Elk River, Anoka, and Andover (possibly Forest Lake, also). But then who do you put into 8AA to replace them? Same argument applies; Brainerd and Tech are closer to most 8AA teams than Elk River, Anoka and Andover.

You can look at this a number of ways but it keeps coming back to the cause; not enough teams up here choose to opt up, so we're stuck with a situation which, while not ideal, is probably the best we can do.

Lee

If the northern schools dont like the cities teams in the section then they need to find more schools to opt up. If they dont find more schools to opt up then the section games should be moved to the cities (based on a majority of schools in the section) or a truly neutral site like the National Hockey Center. And the comment from rapids about there not being a bad seat in the DECC has obviously not watched too many games there because there are plenty of compromised sightlines to the corners, so much so that I'd say there aren't a lot of GREAT seats in the DECC (that's why they're building a new arena, in addition to selling more tickets to Gopher and Sioux fans) but all in all the answer is moving it out of the northland or finding more northland teams to play in the section.

[LakeEffect]

Hopefully ER can get their fans up here....especially their student section because it's hard to imagine a section final game at the DECC without the student sections going back and forth.

The last couple of years have been great at the DECC, hopefully the trend continues Thursday night.

I'm hoping for a high scoring game back and forth, kind of like the East vs Cloquet game in the semis last year. This time the other way around.

East 6 and ER 5

*#27 4 goals*

[tommyjosh]

Fact: New England Patriots 17-0 oh well

[Duluth 4]

I dont think Elk River has much of a choice of where they are placed. They were in 7 for a few years then went to 4 and now back at 7. Maybe they will move back to 8 and everyone can be happy.

Even Tony Sarsland didn't like it when Elk River was placed back into section 7; he said it wasn't a good fit and I tend to agree.

But here is the problem...there aren't enough schools who opt up to fill 7AA. If you had more teams will to do that (like Cloquet, East and Grand Rapids), you'd have a section of all northern teams. So the MSHSL has to do something (unless you think having a three or four team section will work). Sure, you could move Brainerd (who played for a number of years in 7AA) and St Cloud Tech move to 7AA. This would make sense as they're geographically closer than Elk River, Anoka, and Andover (possibly Forest Lake, also). But then who do you put into 8AA to replace them? Same argument applies; Brainerd and Tech are closer to most 8AA teams than Elk River, Anoka and Andover.

You can look at this a number of ways but it keeps coming back to the cause; not enough teams up here choose to opt up, so we're stuck with a situation which, while not ideal, is probably the best we can do.

Lee

If the northern schools dont like the cities teams in the section then they need to find more schools to opt up. If they dont find more schools to opt up then the section games should be moved to the cities (based on a majority of schools in the section) or a truly neutral site like the National Hockey Center. And the comment from rapids about there not being a bad seat in the DECC has obviously not watched too many games there because there are plenty of compromised sightlines to the corners, so much so that I'd say there aren't a lot of GREAT seats in the DECC (that's why they're building a new arena, in addition to selling more tickets to Gopher and Sioux fans) but all in all the answer is moving it out of the northland or finding more northland teams to play in the section.

We dont mind them up here, we mind all of their whining about them being up here.

[karl(east)]

Fact: New England Patriots 17-0 oh well

Brilliant observation skills. Such in-depth analysis.

[EHSHack]

Fact: New England Patriots 17-0 oh well

Good contribution. That had NOTHING to do with this discussion. Tom Brady is the man however.

[bulldog14411]

Even Tony Sarsland didn't like it when Elk River was placed back into section 7; he said it wasn't a good fit and I tend to agree.

But here is the problem...there aren't enough schools who opt up to fill 7AA. If you had more teams will to do that (like Cloquet, East and Grand Rapids), you'd have a section of all northern teams. So the MSHSL has to do something (unless you think having a three or four team section will work). Sure, you could move Brainerd (who played for a number of years in 7AA) and St Cloud Tech move to 7AA. This would make sense as they're geographically closer than Elk River, Anoka, and Andover (possibly Forest Lake, also). But then who do you put into 8AA to replace them? Same argument applies; Brainerd and Tech are closer to most 8AA teams than Elk River, Anoka and Andover.

You can look at this a number of ways but it keeps coming back to the cause; not enough teams up here choose to opt up, so we're stuck with a situation which, while not ideal, is probably the best we can do.

Lee

If the northern schools dont like the cities teams in the section then they need to find more schools to opt up. If they dont find more schools to opt up then the section games should be moved to the cities (based on a majority of schools in the section) or a truly neutral site like the National Hockey Center. And the comment from rapids about there not being a bad seat in the DECC has obviously not watched too many games there because there are plenty of compromised sightlines to the corners, so much so that I'd say there aren't a lot of GREAT seats in the DECC (that's why they're building a new arena, in addition to selling more tickets to Gopher and Sioux fans) but all in all the answer is moving it out of the northland or finding more northland teams to play in the section.

We dont mind them up here, we mind all of their whining about them being up here.

They have every right to, Anoka's final last year had the 300 anoka fans that made the 2 hour drive cheering for them and the rest of the arena was northlanders cheering for CEC because they werent Anoka... It's an advantage to play the games because any cities team that plays up here cant compete with the fan support that the northern teams draw just becacuse they're not from the cites. And an even better question is how many games would the MSHSL had to have cut if Forest Lake would have beaten East in the Semi, that would have been fun to see all 200 fans fill the arena, would have looked like a UMD womens game in there...

[karl(east)]

the rest of the arena was northlanders cheering for CEC because they werent Anoka...

Blantantly false. I was on the Anoka side, as was just about everyone else from East who bothered to go to it.

It's an advantage to play the games because any cities team that plays up here cant compete with the fan support that the northern teams draw just becacuse they're not from the cites.

"Just because they're not from the cities"...huh?

And an even better question is how many games would the MSHSL had to have cut if Forest Lake would have beaten East in the Semi, that would have been fun to see all 200 fans fill the arena, would have looked like a UMD womens game in there.. .

Again, huh? The MSHSL "cutting games?"

If you're going to rip on something, at least try to make sense when doing so.

[bulldog14411]

Blantantly false. I was on the Anoka side, as was just about everyone else from East who bothered to go to it.

And how many bothered to go. I understand that you went and sat on the anoka side but it doesnt mean that you cheered for them. I sat in the corner because the side was full and listened to two harbors guys cheer while getting heckled by more northlanders behind me(not sure from where) just because i was cheering for anoka.

"Just because they're not from the cities"...huh?

That would be the divide... Cities teams vs. northern teams...

Again, huh? The MSHSL "cutting games?"

If you're going to rip on something, at least try to make sense when doing so.

MSHSL held a meeting looking for ways to balance their budget including cutting the number of games that can be played. A horrible draw for a section final like this which normally draws well as long as there is 1 northern team in it would cause a larger budget crisis and more games cut from the schedule. makes perfect sense...

[Nonamer]

D gives E the W

The way I see it, if Forbort can keep his cool and help his team with skilled skating, passing and shooting, Arbour can play good D and stay out of the box, and Williams can catch a pass with consistency, East should be more than ER can handle. Cooper? He's a proven competitor, and has earned his spot as one of the strongest goalies to play for East. He's the real deal, and has accomplished more than many of his peers - his self-confidence will shine, and he will play well - I mean he will play real well - it's his time to shine.

[karl(east)]

And how many bothered to go. I understand that you went and sat on the anoka side but it doesnt mean that you cheered for them. I sat in the corner because the side was full and listened to two harbors guys cheer while getting heckled by more northlanders behind me(not sure from where) just because i was cheering for anoka.

So first you said no one came from Anoka, and now that their side was full so you had to go sit in a corner...?

"Just because they're not from the cities"...huh?

That would be the divide... Cities teams vs. northern teams...

Go back and look at your original line; it makes no sense. I'm not saying your point is wrong, it's just that it's incomprehensible the way you're writing it.

Again, huh? The MSHSL "cutting games?"

If you're going to rip on something, at least try to make sense when doing so.

MSHSL held a meeting looking for ways to balance their budget including cutting the number of games that can be played. A horrible draw for a section final like this which normally draws well as long as there is 1 northern team in it would cause a larger budget crisis and more games cut from the schedule. makes perfect sense...[/quote]

1. No way is the revenue from one section final game going to affect the MSHSL's decision to cut games.
2. If so many angry, anti-cities northern people are turning out for these games, wouldn't that help them make money, not hurt it? These people probably wouldn't show up if the game were at Mariucci or in St. Cloud.
3. Along the same lines, under the current format, only one team has to travel, instead of two, and the total mileage logged is less than it would be if it were anywhere else. Wouldn't this also make more money?
4. 7AA is an awkward section. There's no one place that would be completely neutral and draw even crowds. The DECC just seems a slightly better option than the other two, in terms of distance.
5. The DECC is also way cheaper to rent than any of the other places. Again, they are saving/making more money this way.

[bulldog14411]

So first you said no one came from Anoka, and now that their side was full so you had to go sit in a corner...?

I never said that no one came, i said there werent a lot but the whole side was full because the northern fans had no where to sit on the CEC side so they spilled over to the other side. Or like i've done many other games didnt care so decided they'd sit with the smaller (less annoying) student section.

1. No way is the revenue from one section final game going to affect the MSHSL's decision to cut games.
2. If so many angry, anti-cities northern people are turning out for these games, wouldn't that help them make money, not hurt it? These people probably wouldn't show up if the game were at Mariucci or in St. Cloud.
3. Along the same lines, under the current format, only one team has to travel, instead of two, and the total mileage logged is less than it would be if it were anywhere else. Wouldn't this also make more money?
4. 7AA is an awkward section. There's no one place that would be completely neutral and draw even crowds. The DECC just seems a slightly better option than the other two, in terms of distance.
5. The DECC is also way cheaper to rent than any of the other places. Again, they are saving/making more money this way.

1. Angry northerners would not have turned out for a forest lake vs. ER game, that was my point.
2. Both teams would have had to have traveled. The only team in the whole section that would not hvae to travel to the DECC is East
3. Answered in 2
4. 7AA is awkward because again from the original post more northern teams wont opt up creating the issue so move it south
5. I havent seen rental rates at the NHC so I cant comment on this but I doubt this will continue to be true after the new arena is built.

[karl(east)]

So first you said no one came from Anoka, and now that their side was full so you had to go sit in a corner...?

I never said that no one came, i said there werent a lot but the whole side was full because the northern fans had no where to sit on the CEC side so they spilled over to the other side. Or like i've done many other games didnt care so decided they'd sit with the smaller (less annoying) student section.

Hmm, seems to me like they're generating a lot of revenue here, then. Probably much more than they would in St. Cloud, where no one in the city has a vested interest in either of the two teams. And yes, the MSHSL is allowed to hedge their bets on which teams they think will be in the final to determine where the tournament should be played. Why do you think the 8AA final is in Thief River Falls, when the vast majority of the section is nowhere near TRF?

1. Angry northerners would not have turned out for a forest lake vs. ER game, that was my point.
2. Both teams would have had to have traveled. The only team in the whole section that would not hvae to travel to the DECC is East
3. Answered in 2
4. 7AA is awkward because again from the original post more northern teams wont opt up creating the issue so move it south
5. I havent seen rental rates at the NHC so I cant comment on this but I doubt this will continue to be true after the new arena is built.

In conjunction to the point above, should we base the location off a hypothetical scenario that did not happen, or the one that actually happened?

Your points about travel may make sense in your head, but they are not making sense in writing.

There will be another northern team in 7AA in a few years no matter what (the new Denfeld); perhaps as soon as next year, depending on whether the rumors of a co-op with Central are true or not. Even if this is not true, there is a very good chance Anoka will leave, seeing as 7AA currently has 10 teams and 5AA has 8.

They may be building a new arena, but unless the plans have changed since I left, they're keeping the old one, right? That'd probably lower the price to rent that place, not raise them, and there's no reason they can't continue to use it.

[bulldog14411]

Hmm, seems to me like they're generating a lot of revenue here, then. Probably much more than they would in St. Cloud, where no one in the city has a vested interest in either of the two teams. And yes, the MSHSL is allowed to hedge their bets on which teams they think will be in the final to determine where the tournament should be played. Why do you think the 8AA final is in Thief River Falls, when the vast majority of the section is nowhere near TRF?

The reason it is played there is because we all know it's the nicest arena in the area that with the most seating, so as to attract the largest crowd and make the most revenue

In conjunction to the point above, should we base the location off a hypothetical scenario that did not happen, or the one that actually happened?

There are only 3 teams in the section that are north of St. Cloud (CEC, Grand Rapids and East) so that leaves 7 that arent. It is likely, although some of these teams are horrible, that at least one of these teams can make it to the final and at least 1 makes the semis. So shouldnt the hypothetical 7 account for more then the other 3?

Your points about travel may make sense in your head, but they are not making sense in writing.

Again there are 3 northern teams vs. 7 southern teams 1 of these teams will be driving at least 1.5 hours and Grand Rapids will be driving into Duluth anyways.

There will be another northern team in 7AA in a few years no matter what (the new Denfeld); perhaps as soon as next year, depending on whether the rumors of a co-op with Central are true or not. Even if this is not true, there is a very good chance Anoka will leave, seeing as 7AA currently has 10 teams and 5AA has 8.

About time someone opts up! Maybe someone else can follow their example!

They may be building a new arena, but unless the plans have changed since I left, they're keeping the old one, right? That'd probably lower the price to rent that place, not raise them, and there's no reason they can't continue to use it.

That's true but which one is the section going to use? The new building will make more revenue whenever a northern team makes it into the final so it will be better to have it there. They're not going to switch buildings if 2 cities teams makes it... If they did that they might as well move it to the cities...

[karl(east)]

The reason it is played there is because we all know it's the nicest arena in the area that with the most seating, so as to attract the largest crowd and make the most revenue

1. Can't we say the same thing about the DECC then?
2. Take a look at this map of 8AA and tell me if you think TRF is remotely centrally located. http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/googlemap.asp

The thing is in TRF because they're practically certain that the final will involve one or both of Roseau and Moorhead. There's no other explanation for it.

There are only 3 teams in the section that are north of St. Cloud (CEC, Grand Rapids and East) so that leaves 7 that arent. It is likely, although some of these teams are horrible, that at least one of these teams can make it to the final and at least 1 makes the semis. So shouldnt the hypothetical 7 account for more then the other 3?

Well, this is the first year since 2002 that all of those 3 have not been in the top 4 seeds or the semifinals, and it took one of the worst years in Cloquet history to do that. If the trend continues and no one else moves up, I'd understand the need for some sort of change. But one year is not enough to upset something that has worked very well for a number of years now.

Again there are 3 northern teams vs. 7 southern teams 1 of these teams will be driving at least 1.5 hours and Grand Rapids will be driving into Duluth anyways.

And the northern teams would be driving just as far to get to anywhere down south. No one wins in that scenario. Plus, as GR and Cloquet fans will gleefully tell you, East hasn't seemed to have enjoyed any sort of home ice advantage at the DECC in recent years.

About time someone opts up! Maybe someone else can follow their example!

Yes, hopefully.

That's true but which one is the section going to use? The new building will make more revenue whenever a northern team makes it into the final so it will be better to have it there. They're not going to switch buildings if 2 cities teams makes it... If they did that they might as well move it to the cities...

I'm not sure that the new one would bring in more revenue; an East-Cloquet final probably would sell out the current arena, but there have been empty seats at the GR-Cloquet finals in recent years. In fact, East-Cloquet was maybe 100-200 tickets short of selling out in 05, though East was on break that week.