MSHSL RULE change...what is it REALLY for?
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HShockeywatcher
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carpenterguy
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This has been in the works for years. Hopefully it has the end result which will be good for the game. Time will tell.
Last edited by carpenterguy on Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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carpenterguy
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Open Enrollment and the new transfer policy do not contradict one another. OE is there for a better education. The new transfer policy is to stop the abuse of moving for sports. The movement for a better education doesn't affect anyone in a negative way. Transferring for sports has an endless list of negative outcomes.
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carpenterguy
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While researching what other states do with OE transfers I found some interesting information. Massachusetts says 80% of the kids that use OE do so for either academic or convience reasons, however once you remove the students that are in grades K-8 and focus on the high schools that number drops to just over 20%. Ohio found in a blind study that given a choice nearly 2 out of 3 secondary open enrollees named athletics in some form as the primary reason for transferring. It should be noted that playing on a better team was less a factor than getting playing time. Since then both states have toughend their transfer rules.
Minnesota showed that nearly 67% of secondary open enrollees were also high school athletes, (which is line with Ohio and Massachusetts) but the defenders point out that in total the numbers of athletes are far less, well that's true but I have yet to see a 3rd grade hockey team. Comparing 3rd graders to 12th graders doesn't work in this case.
Will it change anything, if you go by what other states have found it will drastically cut down on the number of first time secondary students using OE.
Minnesota showed that nearly 67% of secondary open enrollees were also high school athletes, (which is line with Ohio and Massachusetts) but the defenders point out that in total the numbers of athletes are far less, well that's true but I have yet to see a 3rd grade hockey team. Comparing 3rd graders to 12th graders doesn't work in this case.
Will it change anything, if you go by what other states have found it will drastically cut down on the number of first time secondary students using OE.
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BringRollieBack!!
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How important is atheletics??
All of the points raised here are valid and I do agree that the new rule will slow down the transfers..at least initially.
HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION:
How important is athletics or other extracurricular activities in regards to a students educational experiance and future endeavors?
I attended 2 full sessions of the tourney and I recall seeing many MSHSL messages regarding student athletes and their better chance at sucess in academics etc... being broadcast on the big screen.
If you agree with the MSHSL that athletics are important and that the lessons learned from athletic participation are a valued part of the educational experiance, then why make rules that limit a students opportunites in pursuing the best possible academic and athletic experiance?
You can get an excellent education at all of our public or private schools if you have parent involvment and guidance.
You cannot get an excellent "athletic education" at all of our pub/private schools.
Some schools have excellent programs in athletics, many have OK programs and sadly there are a number that are poorly run.
YES..I realize that the new rule would allow you to transfer and continue to play athletics at the JV level...but come on that's like telling a gifted math student that he has to spend a year learning the in's and outs of balancing his check book. In a number of JV programs you would get better quality coaching by playing mens league and learning from us old timers.
HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION:
How important is athletics or other extracurricular activities in regards to a students educational experiance and future endeavors?
I attended 2 full sessions of the tourney and I recall seeing many MSHSL messages regarding student athletes and their better chance at sucess in academics etc... being broadcast on the big screen.
If you agree with the MSHSL that athletics are important and that the lessons learned from athletic participation are a valued part of the educational experiance, then why make rules that limit a students opportunites in pursuing the best possible academic and athletic experiance?
You can get an excellent education at all of our public or private schools if you have parent involvment and guidance.
You cannot get an excellent "athletic education" at all of our pub/private schools.
Some schools have excellent programs in athletics, many have OK programs and sadly there are a number that are poorly run.
YES..I realize that the new rule would allow you to transfer and continue to play athletics at the JV level...but come on that's like telling a gifted math student that he has to spend a year learning the in's and outs of balancing his check book. In a number of JV programs you would get better quality coaching by playing mens league and learning from us old timers.
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THEGunslinger
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Will the new rule change things? Nope, it really won’t! I think we all must realize changing the rule only opens Loopholes and creates parents that will be willing to sell a home, and move into another district for athletic reasons. Fanatical people will do whatever it takes to move their kids into what they perceive as a "better situation!" The "Berlin wall" of transfer rules will not prevent the perceived problems in High School athletics. And eventually this too will fall!
I think its time that we re-evaluate the level of which we view athletics, and the sacrifices parents are willing to take to create "the best environment" for there student athletes! My late father would roll over in his grave if he knew what was occurring in our high school sports today. What ever happened to the day we played sports because it involved you in your community, and built pride within a system and your school? The days of loyalty are long gone with transfers, and the options of juniors etc. When is it that parents, and players alike finally realize that 98% of our high school athletes are not going to be a division I athlete! I say shame on our parents and our athletic system for allowing the slow erosion of our athletic system! My guess is that within the next 20 years we will see the Minnesota state hockey tournament gone to the fact that club hockey will eventually take over and high school sports will eventually die with it!
I think its time that we re-evaluate the level of which we view athletics, and the sacrifices parents are willing to take to create "the best environment" for there student athletes! My late father would roll over in his grave if he knew what was occurring in our high school sports today. What ever happened to the day we played sports because it involved you in your community, and built pride within a system and your school? The days of loyalty are long gone with transfers, and the options of juniors etc. When is it that parents, and players alike finally realize that 98% of our high school athletes are not going to be a division I athlete! I say shame on our parents and our athletic system for allowing the slow erosion of our athletic system! My guess is that within the next 20 years we will see the Minnesota state hockey tournament gone to the fact that club hockey will eventually take over and high school sports will eventually die with it!
Slinger, has our athletic system eroded or just evolved.
Private schools and transfers and OE and many other things have changed for sure but I wouldnt say things are eroded.
I go to a number of High School sporting events The last 2 were the hockey tournament and a section final in Bball. I didnt feel that everything was going down the drain. I didnt get the sense from the players nor the fans that things were bad with HS sports.
We focus on the evil transferors and OE nogoods but there a lot more changes that have taken place.
The old SoStPaul, Richfield etc. one community , one school days are gone. We now have school districts drawn up that take in a number of towns and divide others.
We have numerous Coop teams. What would some people do if a coop team won a championship? Can you imagine? Kids who dont even go to the same school on the same team! We would have to fit some of these guys with a straight jacket. Even the evil private school students all go to the same school.
For better or worse, things have changed. I think a lot of our problems are a result of peoples way of thinking not changing with them ( See for example BIAFP ).
Private schools and transfers and OE and many other things have changed for sure but I wouldnt say things are eroded.
I go to a number of High School sporting events The last 2 were the hockey tournament and a section final in Bball. I didnt feel that everything was going down the drain. I didnt get the sense from the players nor the fans that things were bad with HS sports.
We focus on the evil transferors and OE nogoods but there a lot more changes that have taken place.
The old SoStPaul, Richfield etc. one community , one school days are gone. We now have school districts drawn up that take in a number of towns and divide others.
We have numerous Coop teams. What would some people do if a coop team won a championship? Can you imagine? Kids who dont even go to the same school on the same team! We would have to fit some of these guys with a straight jacket. Even the evil private school students all go to the same school.
For better or worse, things have changed. I think a lot of our problems are a result of peoples way of thinking not changing with them ( See for example BIAFP
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HShockeywatcher
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BringRollieBack!! continues to make valid point after point (many I have made in the past) and people continue to have nothing for it.
Trevor Mbakwe is a perfect example (sorry, I'm sure you're a fine young man) of what this is trying to stop. And by all means, stop those players who are transferring purely for athletic reasons at a late age. Not a single person will deny that would be a bad thing to do (at least I hope not). But the problem lies in what it will do to people who are innocent here.
Bottom line, the goal of the transfer rule is a great one, but the negative consequences of it are greater.
Trevor Mbakwe is a perfect example (sorry, I'm sure you're a fine young man) of what this is trying to stop. And by all means, stop those players who are transferring purely for athletic reasons at a late age. Not a single person will deny that would be a bad thing to do (at least I hope not). But the problem lies in what it will do to people who are innocent here.
Bottom line, the goal of the transfer rule is a great one, but the negative consequences of it are greater.
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THEGunslinger
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But what you didnt address was the fact that what you want "whatever that is" is only going to end hockey as we know it in this state... and when its gone, then we will wonder what happned, and how to get it back!packerboy wrote:Slinger, has our athletic system eroded or just evolved.
Private schools and transfers and OE and many other things have changed for sure but I wouldnt say things are eroded.
I go to a number of High School sporting events The last 2 were the hockey tournament and a section final in Bball. I didnt feel that everything was going down the drain. I didnt get the sense from the players nor the fans that things were bad with HS sports.
We focus on the evil transferors and OE nogoods but there a lot more changes that have taken place.
The old SoStPaul, Richfield etc. one community , one school days are gone. We now have school districts drawn up that take in a number of towns and divide others.
We have numerous Coop teams. What would some people do if a coop team won a championship? Can you imagine? Kids who dont even go to the same school on the same team! We would have to fit some of these guys with a straight jacket. Even the evil private school students all go to the same school.
For better or worse, things have changed. I think a lot of our problems are a result of peoples way of thinking not changing with them ( See for example BIAFP
It is not far off that High School hockey is doomed... Just look at the changes that have occured and whats next?
Slinger wrote: "It is not far off that High School hockey is doomed... "
I dont agree with that but if you are right, the doom wont come because we have OE and transfers. We've had those things for a number of years now.
Its more likely that, in this day and age, restricting people will be the cause of doom. I dont think you can regulate it back to "the good old days".
I dont agree with that but if you are right, the doom wont come because we have OE and transfers. We've had those things for a number of years now.
Its more likely that, in this day and age, restricting people will be the cause of doom. I dont think you can regulate it back to "the good old days".
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Rippentrop
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WAR....Huhh....What is it good for.....absolutely nuthin'!
Can you all please tell me that you have something better to do. You've made your points, supported or invalidated each other's arguments, and talked this issue to death. The horse is freakin' dead already.
What you should do now instead of wasting your time on here for a couple minutes, is call your state legislator with your opinion on the matter of bill (HF 989).
I will provide the link to the state legislature site, you can find your legislator's contact info there.
http://www.leg.state.mn.us
Then come back here to the minnhock forums and have some fun on some of the happy discussion boards.
Have a nice day folks!
Can you all please tell me that you have something better to do. You've made your points, supported or invalidated each other's arguments, and talked this issue to death. The horse is freakin' dead already.
What you should do now instead of wasting your time on here for a couple minutes, is call your state legislator with your opinion on the matter of bill (HF 989).
I will provide the link to the state legislature site, you can find your legislator's contact info there.
http://www.leg.state.mn.us
Then come back here to the minnhock forums and have some fun on some of the happy discussion boards.
Have a nice day folks!
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Pioneerprideguy
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Gunslinger,
Relax....now put the gun down & come off the ledge. High school sports and student athletes are doing just fine. I think you are looking at just a small piece of the pie & ignoring all that is right with high school sports. The world will continue to turn regardless of how the open enrollment issue gets resolved. And, regardless of how it is written, a few people will find a way around it to satisfy their personal agenda. Most, however, will continue to exist as usual. So, continue to support your favorite school/event/programs and find the positives that occur.
Relax....now put the gun down & come off the ledge. High school sports and student athletes are doing just fine. I think you are looking at just a small piece of the pie & ignoring all that is right with high school sports. The world will continue to turn regardless of how the open enrollment issue gets resolved. And, regardless of how it is written, a few people will find a way around it to satisfy their personal agenda. Most, however, will continue to exist as usual. So, continue to support your favorite school/event/programs and find the positives that occur.
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THEGunslinger
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Sir,Pioneerprideguy wrote:Gunslinger,
Relax....now put the gun down & come off the ledge. High school sports and student athletes are doing just fine. I think you are looking at just a small piece of the pie & ignoring all that is right with high school sports. The world will continue to turn regardless of how the open enrollment issue gets resolved. And, regardless of how it is written, a few people will find a way around it to satisfy their personal agenda. Most, however, will continue to exist as usual. So, continue to support your favorite school/event/programs and find the positives that occur.
Listen, Im far from the edge.... and the gun isnt in hand!
The reality is this, that the "system" as we know it is changing in front of our eyes. The old saying "throw a fish in water and slowly boil it or Throw a fish in boiling water and it will try to swim out!" Well, some of you dont see the fact that you are slowly being boiled. You want this, complain about that and sometimes ignore the obvious. Look at the trends, and the changes that have come to the game of hockey. You had juniors, and now its fall, and elite leagues. These kids all get to know one another, and suddenly they want to play with each other. The changes are occuring right in front of us! So what does the state do? Well they add 5 games a year, they go to 17 min periods... why do you think they do that, for the good of the game? I think not, its to keep kids playing H.S. hockey! And at what point will the S.S.M's of the hockey world be all over? Where kids can play 60 games a year etc...
And oh.... Im scared of heights! No worries of me jumping!
Slinger, you are exactly correct. Things have and will continue to change.
But either you adapt or you die.
So far we have adapted successfully. I think if we keep doing that, HS hockey will survive and grow. Remember, Class A was going to be the death of the state tournamnet.
Roseau just won the State tournament. How bad can it be?
If we try to legislate and regulate things back to "the good old days" we are just shooting ourselves in the foot.
You make the good point that the MSHSL added games and lengthened them to keep kids playing at the HS level. Thats the kind of thing we need from them. Not reactionary rules that do more harm than good.
But either you adapt or you die.
So far we have adapted successfully. I think if we keep doing that, HS hockey will survive and grow. Remember, Class A was going to be the death of the state tournamnet.
Roseau just won the State tournament. How bad can it be?
If we try to legislate and regulate things back to "the good old days" we are just shooting ourselves in the foot.
You make the good point that the MSHSL added games and lengthened them to keep kids playing at the HS level. Thats the kind of thing we need from them. Not reactionary rules that do more harm than good.
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
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R. I. P. MSHSL!
Rest in peace, old high school hockey bigots!
Bring on AHA, BSM, CDH, H-M, and SSM (Join us, DM, HF, PA, RL, and SSC)!
Replace the 150 whining faith-bashing schools with 150 winning faith-based schools and elite high school hockey!
Should even one Captain America fall, countless shield-bearing patriots will be there to take his place!
Take that, R. A. S. H. (just as persistently irritating as they are impulsively ignorant) agents!
Rest in peace, old high school hockey bigots!
Bring on AHA, BSM, CDH, H-M, and SSM (Join us, DM, HF, PA, RL, and SSC)!
Replace the 150 whining faith-bashing schools with 150 winning faith-based schools and elite high school hockey!
Should even one Captain America fall, countless shield-bearing patriots will be there to take his place!
Take that, R. A. S. H. (just as persistently irritating as they are impulsively ignorant) agents!
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THEGunslinger
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A.P.
Ya know, sometimes you can really show your true colors! Come on... I'm not bashing on privates... Im saying when is it time to protect the game? "good ol days" are all about perspective because 20 years from now today will be the good 'ol days! I dont have the answers, I would just hate to see this turn in "club" hockey.... and in the inner circle of H.S. coaches (privats include A.P.) the worry is that club hockey will at some point win out. It doesnt mean that the state tournament will end, but the quality of kids are going to end up leaving the MSHL. Just look at the trends!
Im done now... and thanks for listening!
This wasnt intended to bash anyone!!!!!
Ya know, sometimes you can really show your true colors! Come on... I'm not bashing on privates... Im saying when is it time to protect the game? "good ol days" are all about perspective because 20 years from now today will be the good 'ol days! I dont have the answers, I would just hate to see this turn in "club" hockey.... and in the inner circle of H.S. coaches (privats include A.P.) the worry is that club hockey will at some point win out. It doesnt mean that the state tournament will end, but the quality of kids are going to end up leaving the MSHL. Just look at the trends!
Im done now... and thanks for listening!
This wasnt intended to bash anyone!!!!!
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
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THEGunslinger
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Ankles Pierre, Jr.
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