Hornets vs Ponies

keepitreal · Post by **keepitreal** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:48 pm

Predictions for Edina at Stillwater tonight? Should be a great game!

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:49 pm

What, no poll?

keepitreal · Post by **keepitreal** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:51 pm

xk1 wrote:What, no poll?

If you want xk; I'd rather hear analysis!

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:53 pm

Might be too close to call, but "if I were a bettin' man" I'd go with Edina, mainly due to their depth and the fact that Stillwater is just coming off their big win against Roseville - they could have a bit of a let-down. But then again I wouldn't bet on it....

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:56 pm

Stillwater tied RV 5-5, the MaxPreps site is screwed up, if you look at the game stats it show RV with 0-2-3 = 0 rather than 5 in the total.

gopher25 · Post by **gopher25** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:20 pm

MY guess is that Edina will be in the Box half of the game. Stillwater doesn't take as many stupid penalties but aren't nearly as physical either. I think this game will come down to special teams and goaltending. Both teams have a lot of history here as both U12 teams have seen eachother at the state tournament quite a bit over the past few years. There is definately some bad blood between the two teams that goes way back!

I would also think that Stillwater will have a lot of confidence after their game at Roseville....either way should be a good game!

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:23 pm

xk1 wrote:Stillwater tied RV 5-5, the MaxPreps site is screwed up, if you look at the game stats it show RV with 0-2-3 = 0 rather than 5 in the total.

You are absolutely right - for some reason I remembered it as a Stillwater win.

But from all the talk here about what a roller coaster type game it was, against a crosstown rival and all, it could still have an effect on tonight's outcome.

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:44 pm

Edina is coming of a big win over conference rival Wayzata as well. Frankly I don't think what happened in their previous game will matter, both will be up for this game.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:52 pm

xk1 wrote:Edina is coming of a big win over conference rival Wayzata as well. Frankly I don't think what happened in their previous game will matter, both will be up for this game.

From the box score it looks like it was a very defensive game - just 30 shots total, 17-13 favoring Edina. Edina shut down Stillwater's main scoring threats, as two freshmen appeared to get their first points of the season for the Ponies.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:41 pm

xk1 wrote:Stillwater tied RV 5-5, the MaxPreps site is screwed up, if you look at the game stats it show RV with 0-2-3 = 0 rather than 5 in the total.

There are some issues with MaxPreps right now. None of my team's stats for Tue's game seem to be counting towards the overall totals... Not good. My guess is that the issue mentioned above is also related to other issues with the site...

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:54 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
xk1 wrote:Edina is coming of a big win over conference rival Wayzata as well. Frankly I don't think what happened in their previous game will matter, both will be up for this game.
From the box score it looks like it was a very defensive game - just 30 shots total, 17-13 favoring Edina. Edina shut down Stillwater's main scoring threats, as two freshmen appeared to get their first points of the season for the Ponies.

Wish I knew the penalty count...

Edina 2, Stillwater 1

Edina 1 1 0-2

Stillwater 0 1 0-1

First: E-Stephan, 10:30. Second: S-Salmen (Cartony, Wollak), 7:24; E-Buie (Hartman), 7:41. Saves: Edina-Casey 4-5-3-12. Stillwater-Plumm 6-6-3-15.

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:09 am

I think there were only 3 and all were Edina but I could be off by one, very fast game with few whistles.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 am

xk1 wrote:I think there were only 3 and all were Edina but I could be off by one, very fast game with few whistles.

What I've noticed is that the shot counts are obviously far inflated when the penalty counts go up. When the penalties aren't there, we see less shots, etc. So, in this game for example, two great teams, not a lot of shots, probably due mostly to having adjusted to thenew rules by both teams.

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:17 am

GHS,

You hit the nail on the head. If I recall, the penalty counts were SW 0, Edina 3. It appeared as though the teams are starting to adjust to the new rules. The refs called a very good game - they let some of the physical contact go - even when one of the players fell down. There were several very good no calls, situations where most of the refs would have called a penalty. The result was a game with good pace, good flow, fewer whistles, etc.

I didn't think that either team played their best game by any means. SW for the most part had some heavy legs, probably due to a very late night on Monday with Roseville (also a very high energy, fast paced game). Edina is solid... good goaltending, solid D, nothing flashy at F, but solid for sure. SW is very solid also ... good goaltending, very deep at F.

FYI - about 1/2 the HA squad was there to watch - I think they play Edina very soon, and they play SW at the Kaposia next Friday.

Rube

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:22 am

hockeyrube wrote:GHS,

You hit the nail on the head. If I recall, the penalty counts were SW 0, Edina 3. It appeared as though the teams are starting to adjust to the new rules. The refs called a very good game - they let some of the physical contact go - even when one of the players fell down. There were several very good no calls, situations where most of the refs would have called a penalty. The result was a game with good pace, good flow, fewer whistles, etc.

I didn't think that either team played their best game by any means. SW for the most part had some heavy legs, probably due to a very late night on Monday with Roseville (also a very high energy, fast paced game). Edina is solid... good goaltending, solid D, nothing flashy at F, but solid for sure. SW is very solid also ... good goaltending, very deep at F.

FYI - about 1/2 the HA squad was there to watch - I think they play Edina very soon, and they play SW at the Kaposia next Friday.

Rube

It's great to see the upcoming opponents at opposing team games. I saw HM & Simley kids @ Wakota last night too, etc. Makes for a larger crowd and is great for the sport (as well as important for upcoming game/scouting purposes).

And - this is a compliment - I don't believe that Edina is a "flashy" team, but they are solid as you say. Well coached, play a disciplined game, are talented, but play within a team system and while they have leaders can have a number of players step up any given night as needed from what I can tell.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:44 am

ghshockeyfan wrote:
xk1 wrote:I think there were only 3 and all were Edina but I could be off by one, very fast game with few whistles.
What I've noticed is that the shot counts are obviously far inflated when the penalty counts go up. When the penalties aren't there, we see less shots, etc. So, in this game for example, two great teams, not a lot of shots, probably due mostly to having adjusted to thenew rules by both teams.

It was pointed out that I should clairify this statement further. It's a little too plain as is...

Bottom line is that I think we all know that PP generates more shots for a team than Even Strength (ES). Similarly, when you have a lot of PP/PK by both teams, the best players tend to wear down, and I think the result is that more shots are generated throughout the remainder of the game - maybe not as many Quality Shots (QS) or Quality Scoring Chances (QSC) though as you would normally assume with that many shots.

This aside, if the Penalty Count is equal, the shots for both teams should be inflated. Meaning, if a team would normall out-shoot someone 25-15, maybe with even penalty count the shots go to 50-30 - same ratio, just double in #. The better team still will likely maintain the same ratio of shots, but the #'s will increase for both.

Also, I think that we're seeing teams with greater depth being able to make it through all the special teams play and still have the ability to play 5v5 and deep into the game. Suddenly the 2-line teams are becoming less powerful and the 3rd line is more needed than before. I didn't see this coming as a result of the penalty/rules inforcement standard.

Of course, we also see some games where one team spends the whole game in the box, and the other not, and then the shot count is equal and we assume - wrongly - that if the score/shots are equal that then the teams must be equal - but - I think it's obvious that we must know the penalty count too to really make any sort of comparison. For this reason, I would like to see us start to report penalties in the boxscores - at least the totals - like they do for basketball fouls at the higher levels I think...

hockeyrube7 · Post by **hockeyrube7** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:01 am

hockeyrube wrote:FYI - about 1/2 the HA squad was there to watch - I think they play Edina very soon, and they play SW at the Kaposia next Friday.

This is awesome, and it would be great to start seeing more kids do these kind of things. Don't see it enough in my opinion. I recall last year seeing the Coon Rapids kids showing up to a ton of their next opponants games, and I think they did fairly well.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:06 am

hockeyrube7 wrote:
hockeyrube wrote:FYI - about 1/2 the HA squad was there to watch - I think they play Edina very soon, and they play SW at the Kaposia next Friday.
This is awesome, and it would be great to start seeing more kids do these kind of things. Don't see it enough in my opinion. I recall last year seeing the Coon Rapids kids showing up to a ton of their next opponants games, and I think they did fairly well.

And - it's just as much about the team chemistry that this builds as anything... If they want to hang-out together, and do so in this setting which helps them as well for upcoming games, then it's good for multiple reasons... plus good for the sport (fans in the stands, etc.)...