The Rise of the North in Coming Years?

[ClassAGuy]

It's all well and good to consider a Rise of Northern hockey on the horizon, but Class A always has at least one Northern team in the conversation for a State title. Hibbing sweeping Class A in Bantams and Pee Wees at State this year really indicates nothing – except maybe a welcome return to prominence for Hibbing hockey. But at the Class A level.
IMHO a true resurrection of Northern hockey would mean becoming more prominent – and more Northern teams consistently relevant - at the AA level. Get back to me on a Rise in Northern hockey when more Northern Class A programs actually opt up to AA.

I was trying to point out that Hibbing did the A Bantam & PW sweep and Moorhead another Northern School almost did the same at the AA level.

EGF won back to back A Bantams titles before Hibbing this year. Last Year Moorhead did sweep both the AA Pee Wee and AA Bantam Title.

This year at the Pee Wee Level Hibbing defeated a very good Warroad Team in the A Title game.

I thought it was promising that over the last 2 years the Titles have been going to Northern Schools which could bode well in a few years instead of seeing the all Metro Final in High School or no Outstate team even in the AA Semis the last 2 years. Again, small sample size but I thought seeing the Northern names emerge at the Youth level could be promising for High School.

Agree with your overall assessment at the AA level

I know the Class A Level 7A/8A with EGF, Hermantown, Hibbing, Warroad all should be very good in the coming years.

FYP.....Has nothing to do with Matt BOLDy.

Boldy has been red hot of late! Last nights OT winner was a great finish!

[ClassAGuy]

Another end of the Year Youth Hockey State Tournament with lots of Northern Reps
Bantam AA
Moorhead plays Hermantown for the AA State Title
Bantam A
Warroad playing for a State Title
Northern Lakes playing for 3rd
CEC playing for 5th
Pee Wee A
Warroad playing Thief River Falls State Title
Proctor playing for 3rd

Warroad attempting to become the 3rd straight Northern Program to win both the Bantam & Pee Wee Championships. Moorhead & Hibbing have done it the last two years.

Does any of these Northern Dominate Trends in the Youth mean less Metro Domination at High School? Again Good Luck to Warroad and elliott (D16) the Pee Wee A Title Game is an all District 16 affair!

[WarmUpTheBus]

Youth hockey success in a single year may not be a great indicator of high school success. I watched the Peewee AA and A state tournaments are in Shakopee this weekend. Even on the best teams it’s likely half or fewer of the players will make the varsity team in the future. High School success is more determined by the depth of the youth program.

[ClassAGuy]

Youth hockey success in a single year may not be a great indicator of high school success. I watched the Peewee AA and A state tournaments are in Shakopee this weekend. Even on the best teams it’s likely half or fewer of the players will make the varsity team in the future. High School success is more determined by the depth of the youth program.

Agreed which is why Northern programs like Moorhead & Hibbing the last two years having both their Pee Wee & Bantams win State Titles is huge because that generally means they are strong at not just one age level but multiple grades to make A State Title Teams at Both PW & Bantam

Warroad will try to do the same feat today awesome to see Northern Programs stacking youth groups together to win State at two different age levels in the same year should mean lots of depth on the way.

More surprised to see it being Northern Programs doing a very impressive Double Dip Championship. You would think it would be Metro ones with the just number of kids to choose from.

Not saying the youth hockey results equal high school success but the fact that they are winning at both PW and Bantam is impressive.

Moorhead today is playing in its third straight AA Bantam title game that an impressive streak... At some point that has to add to up to a team that can contend with the Metro in High school in the next few years maybe? Or it may just be me being hopefully of a break up of the Metro stranglehold on AA.

Class A we know Hibbing is going to be very good over the next 3-4 years now. Warroad looks like a reloading year next year and then great teams along with EGF and Hermantown being at State in AA this year. The North is as strong as ever going forward in Class A which is not a surprise.

[ClassAGuy]

Congrats to
Moorhead winning the Bantam AA Title
Warroad winning the Bantam A Title
Minnetonka winning the PW AA Title
Thief River Falls winning the PW A Title

Excited to see how these young guns progress over the next few years at the High School Level. Lots of good hockey played this weekend! State of the game is in a good place moving into the future!

[Mite-dad]

Would love to see Hibbing make a run at a title or two. Would give me renewed interest. It will be interesting to see if a team besides Mahtomedi, SCC, Warroad, EGF or maybe Orono can win an A title.

[ClassAGuy]

Would love to see Hibbing make a run at a title or two. Would give me renewed interest. It will be interesting to see if a team besides Mahtomedi, SCC, Warroad, EGF or maybe Orono can win an A title.

Outside of Hibbing looking at the youth I think Delano is your other best bet.

Others in mix: Thief River Falls, Northfield, Northern Lakes, Monitcello looking at recent youth hockey results over the past 4 years.

The game changer is that while those teams has all had success at the A youth level

Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi & SCC are getting kids from the AA youth level.

I know that just opens another can of worms... Be interesting to see if Hibbing or Delano or someone could make a true title run over the next few years. Watching the AA Hermantown Bantams this weekend they have an excellent crew of Sophomores next year coming in but they will again more than likely lose top end talent to an early departure this offseason for the 3rd straight year which has tightened the gap recently with them and the rest of Class A. 7A should be very fun to watch and with Hawks & Hibbing and don't sleep on CEC next year

[rainier2]

Would love to see Hibbing make a run at a title or two. Would give me renewed interest. It will be interesting to see if a team besides Mahtomedi, SCC, Warroad, EGF or maybe Orono can win an A title.

Outside of Hibbing looking at the youth I think Delano is your other best bet.

Others in mix: Thief River Falls, Northfield, Northern Lakes, Monitcello looking at recent youth hockey results over the past 4 years.

The game changer is that while those teams has all had success at the A youth level

Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi & SCC are getting kids from the AA youth level.

I know that just opens another can of worms... Be interesting to see if Hibbing or Delano or someone could make a true title run over the next few years. Watching the AA Hermantown Bantams this weekend they have an excellent crew of Sophomores next year coming in but they will again more than likely lose top end talent to an early departure this offseason for the 3rd straight year which has tightened the gap recently with them and the rest of Class A. 7A should be very fun to watch and with Hawks & Hibbing and don't sleep on CEC next year

Agree that it is great to see some northern teams (and other actual community teams) do well at youth, but as usual, the metro teams (Mahtomedi, Hermantown, SCC, EGF, Orono, etc. ) will always have a leg up due to being located in areas that are AA-sized, so how you do against those teams is the true measuring stick. In 7A, we've seen Denfeld, Hibbing, Marshall, Virginia all have teams that had great success in A during youth, but when at HS, they had to meet a Hermantown squad that played AA all they way up and competed with the best in AA, so the illusion of going to state was shattered when faced with a AA juggernaut masquerading as an A team.

The recent Hibbing youth teams, however, have performed well vs Hermantown all the way up, so there is reason to be optimistic about their chances, especially if Hermantown continues to hemorrhage talent.

It was great to see TRF win the PWA title, beating an awesome Warroad team, but that TRF team lost to EGF 13-1. And the TRF squirt A team finished the season as the #8 team in MN, with only one Class A program ranked ahead of them, EGF, who beat the Prowlers twice, outscoring them 23-5. So in two years, the TRF bantams and pee wees will both be in the mix to win state in A, yet they will probably be put into running time in every game vs AA EGF.

EGF appears to be on the brink of out-Hermantowning Hermantown. I've heard EGF is getting players from all over NW MN and NE ND, and the recent run of EGF teams being in the top 10 and sometimes top 5 of AA seems to support that as being true. The question is, will they also stay in A despite being able to beat the best teams in AA, or will their players also suffer from that affliction that hits during February of sophomore year that renders AA youth players incapable of competing against AA teams in the HS playoffs? They'll have to contact doctors in the Hermantown, Mahtomedi, Alexandria, and St.Cloud areas to see what causes this malady.

I wonder how those Hermantown bantams feel about stepping down to Class A next year after making it to the AA title game this year? Or those EGF pee wees who just won AA consolation and finished ranked #4? Are they already dreaming about the day they get a shot at New Ulm or Chisago Lakes when they get to state as high schoolers?

Again, it is great to see Hibbing, Northern Lakes, TRF, and even now Proctor have high level success at youth, so hopefully someone will break through and defeat the "AA at youth" teams built on transfers and open enrollment.

P.S. Can anyone confirm there were riots in the streets of Hermantown after the Proctor pee wees beat them? Hopefully that was a watershed moment where Proctor will routinely keep their talent in Proctor.

[elliott70]

So how many transfers were there into East Grand bantam and peewees this last year?
Or the last two years, or the last five years?

[TTpuckster]

So how many transfers were there into East Grand bantam and peewees this last year?
Or the last two years, or the last five tears?

None!!

[rainier2]

So how many transfers were there into East Grand bantam and peewees this last year?
Or the last two years, or the last five tears?

None!!

Ever hear the name Panzer?

You can't possibly believe there aren't any open enrollees at EGF.

[Rails Hockey]

Would love to see Hibbing make a run at a title or two. Would give me renewed interest. It will be interesting to see if a team besides Mahtomedi, SCC, Warroad, EGF or maybe Orono can win an A title.

Outside of Hibbing looking at the youth I think Delano is your other best bet.

Others in mix: Thief River Falls, Northfield, Northern Lakes, Monitcello looking at recent youth hockey results over the past 4 years.

The game changer is that while those teams has all had success at the A youth level

Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi & SCC are getting kids from the AA youth level.

I know that just opens another can of worms... Be interesting to see if Hibbing or Delano or someone could make a true title run over the next few years. Watching the AA Hermantown Bantams this weekend they have an excellent crew of Sophomores next year coming in but they will again more than likely lose top end talent to an early departure this offseason for the 3rd straight year which has tightened the gap recently with them and the rest of Class A. 7A should be very fun to watch and with Hawks & Hibbing and don't sleep on CEC next year

P.S. Can anyone confirm there were riots in the streets of Hermantown after the Proctor pee wees beat them? Hopefully that was a watershed moment where Proctor will routinely keep their talent in Proctor.

It’s interesting that you mentioned this. Hermantown’s top PeeWee open enrolled from Proctor last year. That had to have been an interesting car ride home with Mom and Dad after losing to Proctor. At least it was a VERY short ride since the game was in Proctor.

[elliott70]

So how many transfers were there into East Grand bantam and peewees this last year?
Or the last two years, or the last five tears?

None!!

Ever hear the name Panzer?

You can't possibly believe there aren't any open enrollees at EGF.

You found one...
But when did Panzer play peewees in EGF?

[rainier2]

Outside of Hibbing looking at the youth I think Delano is your other best bet.

Others in mix: Thief River Falls, Northfield, Northern Lakes, Monitcello looking at recent youth hockey results over the past 4 years.

The game changer is that while those teams has all had success at the A youth level

Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi & SCC are getting kids from the AA youth level.

I know that just opens another can of worms... Be interesting to see if Hibbing or Delano or someone could make a true title run over the next few years. Watching the AA Hermantown Bantams this weekend they have an excellent crew of Sophomores next year coming in but they will again more than likely lose top end talent to an early departure this offseason for the 3rd straight year which has tightened the gap recently with them and the rest of Class A. 7A should be very fun to watch and with Hawks & Hibbing and don't sleep on CEC next year

P.S. Can anyone confirm there were riots in the streets of Hermantown after the Proctor pee wees beat them? Hopefully that was a watershed moment where Proctor will routinely keep their talent in Proctor.

It’s interesting that you mentioned this. Hermantown’s top PeeWee open enrolled from Proctor last year. That had to have been an interesting car ride home with Mom and Dad after losing to Proctor. At least it was a VERY short ride since the game was in Proctor.

Oof, that would be an awkward ride home. I can't imagine the chirps from his former teammates were fun either. It's really too bad he left, for Proctor would have found themselves in the A title game with a real shot to win it all.

By Hermantown standards, their PW team was mediocre this year, and their Squirts were even worse, so hopefully this kid's parents have a change of heart and put him back at Proctor, because the Rails would be the 7A favorite when this group comes through.

As I followed the Proctor PWA season, I wondered when they would play Hermantown, as it appeared Proctor might be the better team. But late in the season they still hadn't played, and it made me wonder if Hermantown was ducking the Rails, knowing a loss could weaken their ability to recruit from Proctor. Then I saw Proctor had beaten them and all was right with the world.

It's great to see all the positivity in Proctor: division 1 goalie, varsity team pushing Hermantown to the brink, a top rated youth team. Having Proctor keep all its own talent would be great for 7A, as it brings Hermantown back to the pack, and would put Proctor in the mix every year, making for exciting section battles and tournament.

[elliott70]

It’s interesting that you mentioned this. Hermantown’s top PeeWee open enrolled from Proctor last year. That had to have been an interesting car ride home with Mom and Dad after losing to Proctor. At least it was a VERY short ride since the game was in Proctor.

When did this game occur?
Never mind I found it.

[rainier2]

None!!

Ever hear the name Panzer?

You can't possibly believe there aren't any open enrollees at EGF.

You found one...
But when did Panzer play peewees in EGF?

Elliott, you realize it never ends well for you when you play the "what transfers?", "what open enrollees?" game you love so much, right? Go look at the Hermantown thread where you do this repeatedly, where you receive multiple replies that list the names and the original associations where the players came from, all culminating in the beautiful Pionk open letter in the Duluth newspaper revealing there were 50+ transfers and open enrollees in the last decade at Hermantown. (I re-read it whenever I'm feeling down.)

And I don't know when the Panzer name started showing up on EGF rosters, but it was well-documented on this forum that the family moved to EGF from Grand Forks. You like to act like a kid should no longer be considered a transfer or open enrollee if he's been in the program for a few years, but that's not the point. The point is: the player was known to be good before he ever put on an EGF jersey. How many more of those are there is my question.

And you can say "you found one" in reference to Panzer, but don't you realize that one player is fantastic, and with him, EGF won the PWA title, but when he played varsity as a freshman this year, the bantam team he left behind would have had zero chance at winning the A title? That "one player" makes a huge difference, especially in Class A.

I wasn't really all that interested in what was happening in EGF, if anything even was. But then I heard someone remark that EGF was turning into Hermantown, getting players from all over. And then I saw them go AA at youth while staying in A at HS. And then all of a sudden their youth teams go from "excellent A teams" to "excellent AA teams". This raised my antennae some, but I still wasn't overly alarmed.

BUT, when I casually mentioned hearing EGF was trying to go full Hermantown and that it appeared to me to be true, I was met with two responses: you with your tired "what transfers?" schtick, and then a well-known EGF fan chiming in immediately with an emphatic "None!", without giving any details as to why I'm wrong. It was at this point I realized this was the exact same pattern of events as what happened at Hermantown!!!!!

Now will this all once again spiral out into a stream of local hockey people revealing the specifics about the vast pool of outside talent being brought into EGF and ultimately end in a devastating open letter to the Grand Forks Herald penned by the Scott Pionk of EGF? Maybe not, but either I'm having the strongest case of deja vu in human history, or something stinks up there, and I'm not talking about the beet plant.

[elliott70]

Well, you are wrong.
You like to stir things up on this board but seldom provide something original.
Yes, Panzer was a good (very) player and he came from Grand Forks to play high school hockey.

But you are implying that EGF is recruiting kids to play in EGF as peewees.
Why? Because you heard someone say something.

EGF is like Hermantown (and Mahtomedi and soon others) because they play a AA schedule at youth hockey to get the best competition they can get.

They do not get a lot of transfers at peewees,
Yes, people move t EGF but that is where the jobs are in this part of the country.

[rainier2]

Well, you are wrong.
You like to stir things up on this board but seldom provide something original.
Yes, Panzer was a good (very) player and he came from Grand Forks to play high school hockey.

But you are implying that EGF is recruiting kids to play in EGF as peewees.
Why? Because you heard someone say something.

EGF is like Hermantown (and Mahtomedi and soon others) because they play a AA schedule at youth hockey to get the best competition they can get.

They do not get a lot of transfers at peewees,
Yes, people move t EGF but that is where the jobs are in this part of the country.

So all the people moving to EGF just happen to have kids who are already great at hockey? Or are there so many people moving there that the ratio of hockey talent/EGF enrollment has remained the same? For the second scenario to be true, I'd estimate the enrollment at EGF would have had to increase by 25-30%. Did this happen? Or is the hockey talent magically increasing significantly without enrollment going up in proportion?

The EGF program was already excellent, so I doubt this turbo boost in talent is due to the program getting better.

It's following the Hermantown trajectory to a tee:
-Solid but not dominant A program wins A title (EGF in 14 and 15, Herm in 07)
-A few years later, youth teams go AA, HS stays in A
-Youth teams begin to compete with the very best in AA, appears as though program is now somehow immune to talent cycles like they used to be
-Elliott and local homer defend program vigorously without providing details

After Hermantown won state in 07, we now know the transfer/open enrollment floodgates began to open, and 7-8 years later they were routinely beating the eventual AA champ. Is the same thing beginning to unfold in EGF? It seems like it, but maybe not.

And you say EGF plays AA at youth to get the best competition they can get, but I'd ask the same of EGF as of those other "AA in youth" programs: What happens to your players during the transition from bantams to varsity that renders them incapable of playing against AA teams in the HS playoffs?

I was told by you and Hermantown people "there's nothing to see here", I believed it at first, and it later turned out there was a whole lot to see there. So forgive me if I take to heart the "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" adage, but I'm not just going to fall for it again.

Revealing that the emperor of Hermantown had no clothes was important, as it allowed everyone to see the truth of what was happening there, and rightfully so they became the villain of Class A. And today we see a Hermantown program that is losing top talent every year, along with some youth teams that are far below their usual standards, two things that were unthinkable until recently. It appears that Hermantown may have finally jumped the shark, and IF the same process is happening at EGF that happened to Hermantown, the braintrust of the Green Wave would be wise to heed the lesson, and consider making the leap to AA at HS before they meet the same fate.

[elliott70]

proof???
But yet your proof is someone said that EGF is following HT.

I have the proof in that all waivers into youth hockey program come to me. I have the proof as I see the rosters do not show hardly anyone new added to rosters in youth program from year to year.

You are bashing a youth program because that is what you do.

Some of us do a bit to help youth programs, some sit on an anonymous hockey board and bash.

[east hockey]

Ahem. Y'all know what that means. It's code for "knock the crap off"

Lee

[elliott70]

Yes sir.

[GoldenBear]

Well shoot. I was just making some popcorn and sitting down to enjoy. Oh well, enjoy golf, fishing and hunting for the next seven months guys. GB

[WarmUpTheBus]

Congrats to
Moorhead winning the Bantam AA Title
Warroad winning the Bantam A Title
Minnetonka winning the PW AA Title
Thief River Falls winning the PW A Title

Excited to see how these young guns progress over the next few years at the High School Level. Lots of good hockey played this weekend! State of the game is in a good place moving into the future!

I caught the last period of the TRF-WAR game. I think the whole town of TRF was there to support the team. The arena was packed.

[headsupsticksdown]

Outside of Hibbing looking at the youth I think Delano is your other best bet.

Others in mix: Thief River Falls, Northfield, Northern Lakes, Monitcello looking at recent youth hockey results over the past 4 years.

The game changer is that while those teams has all had success at the A youth level

Hermantown, EGF, Mahtomedi & SCC are getting kids from the AA youth level.

I know that just opens another can of worms... Be interesting to see if Hibbing or Delano or someone could make a true title run over the next few years. Watching the AA Hermantown Bantams this weekend they have an excellent crew of Sophomores next year coming in but they will again more than likely lose top end talent to an early departure this offseason for the 3rd straight year which has tightened the gap recently with them and the rest of Class A. 7A should be very fun to watch and with Hawks & Hibbing and don't sleep on CEC next year

P.S. Can anyone confirm there were riots in the streets of Hermantown after the Proctor pee wees beat them? Hopefully that was a watershed moment where Proctor will routinely keep their talent in Proctor.

It’s interesting that you mentioned this. Hermantown’s top PeeWee open enrolled from Proctor last year. That had to have been an interesting car ride home with Mom and Dad after losing to Proctor. At least it was a VERY short ride since the game was in Proctor.

Rails, I’m assuming you do, but if you know this kids’ parents you would not be surprised to hear that they could care less about this. Great kid. Parents on the other hand.. Am sure the cupboard will get added to, but his impact on that team was fairly minimal in the sense that they really weren’t that great. Fact though that they’d be much worse without him.

Was rooting for the Rails down in Shakopee but holy smokes was Roseville a bad matchup for them all year. I’m guessing next years BTM will be fairly decent with some kids moving up, but I guess we’ll see.

[north_bear]

Depth will be the biggest hurdle to overcome for northern teams. Many can assemble a great top line, or have an amazing goaltender. But an ability to have 4 lines playing at the level you can find in the metro is going to make it tough. Not saying it can't happen. Look at a Roseau, for example. They may produce a fantastic top line periodically, or even a couple of very good to great lines. But is that going to hold up in the Tourney when you go up against an Edina or Hill where they can roll 4 lines? Not sure. Moorhead and even Duluth are slightly different stories IMO. They are big enough communities to produce a team with good depth.

GR had no issues disposing of those cities teams with their top line in 2017

Little Greenway nearly rode their top line to a class A title recently.

Depth will always be the key in smaller communities but with TV timeouts during tourney time its a lot easier to rely on 1 or 2 lines to carry a team.