Minnesota Hockey Taking Over?

[6AAGuy]

Wise Old Man you’re misnamed. And you’re alarmist.

While we can disagree about conclusions regarding risk, let’s get the facts straight. Right now MN Health shows that there have been a ballpark of 6,000 cases of COVID in Kids aged 15-19, and there are 219,000 kids in that age group. While I do question your stat that “15% of kids who develop COVID get myocarditis” I’ll go with it purely for arguments sake. On this data your scenario and question are simply wrong. Here’s what you asked:
“ IF...you knew that EVERY time your son or daughter left the house, there was 15% chance they could come home with a life altering disease or, even worse, die, would you let them out of the house?? “

Let that settle in for a second and see if you can detect your own error.....Do you see it? I’ll lay it out for you (let me know if you need pictures):

There isn’t a 15% chance that very kid will get myocarditis. Right now the 6,000 cases among The 219,000 kids this age reflect a little more than 3% of kids this age getting COVID. And among that 3%, you say 15% of this kids will get myocarditis. That’s 900 kids out of 219,000. Something like .45%.

Will I let my kid go outside knowing there’s a .45% chance of getting myocarditis? Yes. Especially because if when they catch COVID you test them (upon recovery) FOR myocarditis before returning to play. Just like the NHL.

Again, you seem triggered, WOM. And your analysis belies an underlying penchant for fear mongering.

I’d like my kid to play hockey, to have a normal high school experience. I also let him drive (where the risk of danger is more real than the .45% of that myocarditis that’s causing people like you to shout “keep them in their homes to protect them.”

[WestMetro]

Wise

At the risk of undoing our world peace agreement........

I find your quotea 'below from your Dept of Health contact very interesting

"The younger of the two wouldn't comment but, the older one said that, although they had recommended to Walz that he should probably retain greater restrictions on indoor sports, it was stated that if he didn't open hockey rinks specifically, he was told by his political advisers that it would be a PR nightmare. The reason being was that the perception regarding hockey parents is that they're the "craziest" of all the sports parents and, even though it was understood that it would be a smaller percentage of the overall number of hockey parents that would be complaining -- probably 20-30% max of the total hockey playing population - they would be "complaining" extremely loud. So, Walz decided to open the rinks and gyms with the intent that IF there was a significant outbreak in either a gym or rink, they would immediately restrict activity again."

The reason this MDH comment is interesting , it shows politics are a MDH consideration, not just health. It also shows considerable judgement is involved in making all these decisions. So things arent black and white. No one, even the experts, are correct 100% of the time.


Another point from your MDH post above I find interesting:

"But two of the brightest minds in the areas of infectious disease and finance/economics are saying another strict (actually stricter) lock down is our best bet for actually getting the virus under control. Can any of you on this forum claim to have either of these gentleman's expertise in either area? "

I find it interesting because there is no mention of the societal damage caused by the first strict lockdown much less a second one. I feel after almost 70 years of watching the society, I have considerable expertise of understanding these impacts. A quick short list includes: Unemployment and loss of family income, increased family tensions contributing to family difficulies, contribution factors to civil unrest, food shortages, loss of important medical screenings, deferral of in person education for kids that cant learn adequately from on line teaching, govt budget deficits leading to cuts in other areas, and on and on and on. We CANT just do lockdowns every time a new virus hits us for the rest of time. e.

So Wise, hoping we can keep our previous very respectful world peace agreement , but perhaps add an appendix?

[Hunters1993]

So you want your kids to know that sports are valuable enough to risk health but going to a classroom is not valuable? That’s great! Glad to hear you at least admit that!

I didn’t decide that. The MSHSL did. I want my kids in the Classroom. And I want my kid to play Hockey too. You said all the Hockey Dad’s were silent and wouldn’t answer you. I just did. What do u wanna know?
[/


So you want your kids to know that sports are valuable enough to risk health but going to a classroom is not valuable? That’s great! Glad to hear you at least admit that! But when it comes down too it you are just fine keeping them from the classroom and sending them to the rink! Sports more valuable,

[Hunters1993]

So you want your kids to know that sports are valuable enough to risk health but going to a classroom is not valuable? That’s great! Glad to hear you at least admit that!

I didn’t decide that. The MSHSL did. I want my kids in the Classroom. And I want my kid to play Hockey too. You said all the Hockey Dad’s were silent and wouldn’t answer you. I just did. What do u wanna know?

Can you respond to this one?

My question for you. Why do you wash your hands after going to the bathroom, why do you cough into your arm, why put on a seat belt? Why worry about anyone else’s health. It’s not your problem right. You make your choices I’ll make mine. You do those things to protect others from germs in several cases and protect yourself and those in the car with you in the other. But with a pandemic you don’t need to worry about others health?

How about this one. I feel for every family who has ever had to deal with a Mental Health Issue or how about a machinery death. But maybe there just a few here or there in your region? So it’s not a real big deal right? Maybe you don’t even know anyone who has died this way? So not a real problem? That’s how people are treating COVID. I don’t know anyone effected so it’s not a big deal.

[OldManRiver]

Just to recap where we are:

It is o.k. for my kid to go to school with 1000 people two days per week (that's half of his full school size, and they are starting out in hybrid learning).

It is o.k. for him to work 8 hour shifts at Cub grocery store and interact with people and be sure that everyone else gets groceries.

It is o.k. for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at big box stores like Target, Home Depot and Menards and interact with people and make sure that everyone else gets the supplies they need for home and home projects.

It is o.k. for for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at restaurants like Applebees, McDonalds, Burger King, Dominos, Chik-Fil-A, Buffalo Wild Wings and others to be sure that everyone else gets to eat in or take out food when they don't want to cook.

It isn't o.k. for him and his buddies to play high school hockey (or other sports and/or activities) for themselves and their social wellness.

[WestMetro]

Well stated Old Man!

I made a rare trip to Home Depot the other Day when I didn’t want to wait two days for replacement bad light fixture from Amazon. Watching the check out: people getting garden flowers and supplies, people getting interior paint for redecorating projects, etc. etc.

In other words, much more than just critical plumbing or electrical repairs

. Most people’s things were for discretionary activities, and people are out and about interacting with others at congested indoor locations.

I’m not being critical of them , just pointing out that there are many many discretionary activities that people do where they have to go out to crowded indoor locations .

So youth hockey risk should not be viewed in a vacuum .

[Rails Hockey]

So you want your kids to know that sports are valuable enough to risk health but going to a classroom is not valuable? That’s great! Glad to hear you at least admit that!

The value of education has been preached in my house repeatedly since my kids were little. Sports are also very valuable. The decision has been made by the School Boards that they aren't going to be in class. I have no control over that. But they are letting sports go on. In these crazy times I will take whatever I can get. My kids are old enough to take whatever lesson they want from all of this. It doesn't concern me at all.

[Schotzy]

<sarcasm>So Minnesota Hockey might be taking over for the MSHSL this year? Well, how about that.</sarcasm>

[USA218]

I thought this article was highly appropriate to put in this thread:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/severe-c ... s-uk-study

A large team of experts found that confirmed virus cases among babies and youth under 19 only accounted for less than 1 percent of all patients in a given cohort. The in-hospital death rate was “strikingly low” among this age group, according to the report, at 1 percent compared to the cohort including all ages at 27 percent. A total of six out of 627 pediatric patients died, “all of whom had profound comorbidity,” study authors wrote.

"Severe disease was rare and death [was] exceptionally rare in this...large prospective cohort study of children admitted to hospital with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19," study authors wrote.

[BodyShots]

Well stated Old Man!

I made a rare trip to Home Depot the other Day when I didn’t want to wait two days for replacement bad light fixture from Amazon. Watching the check out: people getting garden flowers and supplies, people getting interior paint for redecorating projects, etc. etc.

In other words, much more than just critical plumbing or electrical repairs

. Most people’s things were for discretionary activities, and people are out and about interacting with others at congested indoor locations.

I’m not being critical of them , just pointing out that there are many many discretionary activities that people do where they have to go out to crowded indoor locations .

So youth hockey risk should not be viewed in a vacuum .

Were these shoppers at Home Depot wearing masks? Do hockey players wear masks while on the ice? Does mommy and daddy where masks when sitting at the dinner table with little Johnny after his hockey game? or better yet, when sitting in the car for hours driving home from an out of town tournament?

[6AAGuy]

USA218 thanks for the report. It (and your) analysis is consistent with my response (a few threads above) to Wise Old Man.

The kids are not at risk to any concerning degree. And their risk to others can and should be appropriately mitigated.

[Hunters1993]

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-ne ... -minnesota https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-ne ... -minnesota

[Hunters1993]

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/hea ... a87353cd72

[Hunters1993]

Just to recap where we are:

It is o.k. for my kid to go to school with 1000 people two days per week (that's half of his full school size, and they are starting out in hybrid learning).

It is o.k. for him to work 8 hour shifts at Cub grocery store and interact with people and be sure that everyone else gets groceries.

It is o.k. for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at big box stores like Target, Home Depot and Menards and interact with people and make sure that everyone else gets the supplies they need for home and home projects.

It is o.k. for for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at restaurants like Applebees, McDonalds, Burger King, Dominos, Chik-Fil-A, Buffalo Wild Wings and others to be sure that everyone else gets to eat in or take out food when they don't want to cook.

It isn't o.k. for him and his buddies to play high school hockey (or other sports and/or activities) for themselves and their social wellness.

When working staff And at school masks are being worn, correct? are wearing masks correct? Washing hands correct? Family units do not need to use masks when together. Look at the guidance. Unless one family member(hockey pkayer) is taking high risk in which case they should have a mask. Buck up and be an ADULT. The kids should not be playing sports during a pandemic!!!!When doing high risk activities that infect others when the undo risk effects other families and the school district. That is where a free choice should end!!!!!!!!!

You guys have any sense of what your choices could effect others! At all!

[Hunters1993]

L

[Hunters1993]

http://kttc.com/2020/08/28/minnesota-re ... atherings/

Some good reading!

I’ll save the told you so till everything shuts down again because of people bad choices!

[Hunters1993]

http://kttc.com/2020/08/27/winona-sees- ... -pandemic/

[Hunters1993]

Age Group Number of Cases Number of Deaths
0-4 years 1,445 1
5-9 years 1,374 0
10-14 years 2,040 0
15-19 years 6,340 0
20-24 years 9,508 1
25-29 years 7,430 3
30-34 years 6,898 7
35-39 years 6,234 10
40-44 years 5,464 10
45-49 years 5,098 17
50-54 years 4,985 41
55-59 years 4,402 55
60-64 years 3,315 92
65-69 years 2,213 124
70-74 years 1,669 186
75-79 years 1,339 184
80-84 years 1,213 297
85-89 years 1,056 304
90-94 years 791 289
95-99 years 353 157
100+ years 61 32
Unknown/missing 12 0

Looks like a top five category of infections!

[OldManRiver]

Just to recap where we are:

It is o.k. for my kid to go to school with 1000 people two days per week (that's half of his full school size, and they are starting out in hybrid learning).

It is o.k. for him to work 8 hour shifts at Cub grocery store and interact with people and be sure that everyone else gets groceries.

It is o.k. for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at big box stores like Target, Home Depot and Menards and interact with people and make sure that everyone else gets the supplies they need for home and home projects.

It is o.k. for for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at restaurants like Applebees, McDonalds, Burger King, Dominos, Chik-Fil-A, Buffalo Wild Wings and others to be sure that everyone else gets to eat in or take out food when they don't want to cook.

It isn't o.k. for him and his buddies to play high school hockey (or other sports and/or activities) for themselves and their social wellness.

When working staff And at school masks are being worn, correct? are wearing masks correct? Washing hands correct? Family units do not need to use masks when together. Look at the guidance. Unless one family member(hockey pkayer) is taking high risk in which case they should have a mask. Buck up and be an ADULT. The kids should not be playing sports during a pandemic!!!!When doing high risk activities that infect others when the undo risk effects other families and the school district. That is where a free choice should end!!!!!!!!!

You guys have any sense of what your choices could effect others! At all!

Up until July 22 there was no mask requirement. Employees may have worn them (which science says is supposed to protect others from them and not the other way around) but others didn't from March until July. Currently, for kids working in food service or restaurants, they are wearing them but others sitting at the table and ordering from them do not. I'm hoping that everyone has been and continues to wash their hands regardless of what is going on with the pandemic. It's obvious that as long as it fits what you need (groceries, supplies, food, etc.) it's o.k. that they're on the front line. But if it's something for them...they're gong to kill us all!

I know you're on here to troll and this will be my last response to you directly. It's been a pleasure.

[MWS coach]

Just to recap where we are:

It is o.k. for my kid to go to school with 1000 people two days per week (that's half of his full school size, and they are starting out in hybrid learning).

It is o.k. for him to work 8 hour shifts at Cub grocery store and interact with people and be sure that everyone else gets groceries.

It is o.k. for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at big box stores like Target, Home Depot and Menards and interact with people and make sure that everyone else gets the supplies they need for home and home projects.

It is o.k. for for his buddies (who he will see at school) to work 8 hour shifts at restaurants like Applebees, McDonalds, Burger King, Dominos, Chik-Fil-A, Buffalo Wild Wings and others to be sure that everyone else gets to eat in or take out food when they don't want to cook.

It isn't o.k. for him and his buddies to play high school hockey (or other sports and/or activities) for themselves and their social wellness.

When working staff And at school masks are being worn, correct? are wearing masks correct? Washing hands correct? Family units do not need to use masks when together. Look at the guidance. Unless one family member(hockey pkayer) is taking high risk in which case they should have a mask. Buck up and be an ADULT. The kids should not be playing sports during a pandemic!!!!When doing high risk activities that infect others when the undo risk effects other families and the school district. That is where a free choice should end!!!!!!!!!

You guys have any sense of what your choices could effect others! At all!

Hunter, you have a choice as does everyone else. Just because you don't like the choice other are making within the guidelines that does not make you right and others wrong........Face the facts, if your kid attends school (hockey or no hockey) they greatly increase their chance of contracting the virus as a result of many discretionary activities. Many have given you many examples of these types of activities, yet you don't acknowledge those risks.... If hockey continues, that will be the only contributing factor to the spread of this disease. That is the message I am hearing from you. I guess you have the answer, shut down hockey and the virus goes away?

To further my point on activities which may be contributing to the spread, from one of the articles you link to.
"Ehresmann said the Department has received 1,086 complaints of noncompliance with executive orders in the state, with noncompliance with masking as the number one category."

Stay home and protect yourself and your family, I respect that.

[MWS coach]

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/hea ... a87353cd72

Great article Hunter, I hope your kids teacher doesn't decide to go out to eat at any of these restaurants! Oh wait, that is okay, just not hockey!

[MWS coach]

http://kttc.com/2020/08/28/minnesota-re ... atherings/

Some good reading!

I’ll save the told you so till everything shuts down again because of people bad choices!

What's your point? There is a pandemic and social gatherings contribute to the spread?

[WestMetro]

Well stated Old Man!

I made a rare trip to Home Depot the other Day when I didn’t want to wait two days for replacement bad light fixture from Amazon. Watching the check out: people getting garden flowers and supplies, people getting interior paint for redecorating projects, etc. etc.

In other words, much more than just critical plumbing or electrical repairs

. Most people’s things were for discretionary activities, and people are out and about interacting with others at congested indoor locations.

I’m not being critical of them , just pointing out that there are many many discretionary activities that people do where they have to go out to crowded indoor locations .

So youth hockey risk should not be viewed in a vacuum .

Were these shoppers at Home Depot wearing masks? Do hockey players wear masks while on the ice? Does mommy and daddy where masks when sitting at the dinner table with little Johnny after his hockey game? or better yet, when sitting in the car for hours driving home from an out of town tournament?

Fair question Body Shots . I would say 90% for shoppers and 100%
for HD people . Even so , if a lady makes 5-10 gardening trips for the season , there is risk . If a husband and wife make 5-10 trips for interior decorating or remodel , there is risk . Not being critical of them , that’s their choice

[warriors41]

For anyone who says we can’t fully return to normal until we develop a vaccine, we need to keep in mind that there is a real chance that day never comes. We’ve never developed a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. If that’s the case it’s not reasonable to expect society to just hole up forever. Playing hockey isn’t any more dangerous than physically attending school. I don’t have any faith that 16 year olds are going to social distance in hallways, cafeterias, gyms, or classrooms. Think back to when you were that age and remember how many pieces of safety advice you disregarded from your parents. Teens drive too fast, ride cars without seatbelts, drink, use tobacco, use social media for inappropriate reasons, and exhibit a multitude of other dangerous behaviors. You have to be recklessly naive to expect that they’ll always wear a mask and stay six feet apart from each other.

I also have to wonder why you allow your children to play hockey anyway. It wasn’t too long ago that a young man became paralyzed from what people who saw it live described as a rather innocuous play towards the end boards. Given the statistics on how the virus affects young, healthy people, that appears to be just a likely a threat and it’s always present.

If you advocate for returning to class in person, there isn’t a good reason to not allow for sports.

[ThatMNHockeyGuy62]

For anyone who says we can’t fully return to normal until we develop a vaccine, we need to keep in mind that there is a real chance that day never comes. We’ve never developed a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. If that’s the case it’s not reasonable to expect society to just hole up forever. Playing hockey isn’t any more dangerous than physically attending school. I don’t have any faith that 16 year olds are going to social distance in hallways, cafeterias, gyms, or classrooms. Think back to when you were that age and remember how many pieces of safety advice you disregarded from your parents. Teens drive too fast, ride cars without seatbelts, drink, use tobacco, use social media for inappropriate reasons, and exhibit a multitude of other dangerous behaviors. You have to be recklessly naive to expect that they’ll always wear a mask and stay six feet apart from each other.

I also have to wonder why you allow your children to play hockey anyway. It wasn’t too long ago that a young man became paralyzed from what people who saw it live described as a rather innocuous play towards the end boards. Given the statistics on how the virus affects young, healthy people, that appears to be just a likely a threat and it’s always present.

If you advocate for returning to class in person, there isn’t a good reason to not allow for sports.

I tend to agree with most of your post here but the line about no successful coronavirus vaccines is a *formerly* common mischaracterization. In the age of modern vaccine development there has never been a monetary need to develop a vaccine for a coronavirus until now.