CoVid-19

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Getitright
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Getitright » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:22 pm

East hockey. That didn’t last long. Yoopster keeps topping himself.

east hockey
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by east hockey » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:25 pm

Getitright wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:22 pm
East hockey. That didn’t last long. Yoopster keeps topping himself.
Yeah. How else could it be?

Lee
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Yoopskater
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Yoopskater » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:02 pm

I got more wisdom where that came from, just let me know the topic.

goldy313
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by goldy313 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:39 pm

I was watching Anderson Cooper wonder why all these Trump supporters don’t get it and protest the Government’s handling of the pandemic.

My first thought was, really? A Vanderbilt? My second was they are protesting in states led by Democratic and Republican governors, so clearly it is not entirely a Trump issue as he has also set guidelines many of the protesters wouldn’t be fans of (Trump’s tweets haven’t helped). But still, people need to work.

I work with a nurse whose husband repairs jewelry and high end watches. Anyone who has ever entered a jewelry store knows other than near Christmas and Valentines Day you don’t have to worry about overcrowding. Yet, since it is not deemed essential the business has been closed for a month. The business won’t reopen if this goes on another 2 weeks. Some of this makes no sense, they have to do something to fix it.

Kids need to be in school especially those just becoming literate. We can’t waste time, Walz talked today about making plans for distance learning into next year. Even if we have to drop certain classes kids still need to learn to read, write, and do math. The damage being done to the kids is not going to be easily recovered. Most kids are going to be out of school at least 6 months.

We just set a precedent, this will happen again. Even with a vaccine influenza killed 61,000 and infected 45,000,000 Americans just 2 years ago. This will probably be worse but not exponentially, even without a vaccine.

east hockey
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by east hockey » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:51 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:39 pm
I was watching Anderson Cooper wonder why all these Trump supporters don’t get it and protest the Government’s handling of the pandemic.

My first thought was, really? A Vanderbilt? My second was they are protesting in states led by Democratic and Republican governors, so clearly it is not entirely a Trump issue as he has also set guidelines many of the protesters wouldn’t be fans of (Trump’s tweets haven’t helped). But still, people need to work.

I work with a nurse whose husband repairs jewelry and high end watches. Anyone who has ever entered a jewelry store knows other than near Christmas and Valentines Day you don’t have to worry about overcrowding. Yet, since it is not deemed essential the business has been closed for a month. The business won’t reopen if this goes on another 2 weeks. Some of this makes no sense, they have to do something to fix it.

Kids need to be in school especially those just becoming literate. We can’t waste time, Walz talked today about making plans for distance learning into next year. Even if we have to drop certain classes kids still need to learn to read, write, and do math. The damage being done to the kids is not going to be easily recovered. Most kids are going to be out of school at least 6 months.

We just set a precedent, this will happen again. Even with a vaccine influenza killed 61,000 and infected 45,000,000 Americans just 2 years ago. This will probably be worse but not exponentially, even without a vaccine.
If we forget about social distancing and go back to "business as usual", as many are proposing, how do we know it won't be exponentially worse? Let's see what happens in Florida and Georgia in the next several weeks as they start opening things back up (like bowling alleys in Georgia, yeah those are really vital!!! :roll: )

Lee
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Wise Old Man
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Wise Old Man » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:23 am

Yoopskater wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:34 pm
The point is, how do we set policy? If we set policy to protect 100% of lives we literally cannot do anything in this life. If we wanted to protect all lives...there were 30k+ lives lost in traffic accidents last year. Well, eliminate cars. Ain’t I a genius? Solved that whole problem in one fell swoop. That is the mind set of a lot of our governors now days. Stay home, let everything else hit the skids, and while you are at it, Chaulk up every death you can to Covid, regardless if they were 90 and had lung cancer. After all, there is fed funding attached to it.
First, to "yoopskater", "Wet Paint", InthePipes", and "7TIMECHAMP"; again I'll ask,

What is the number of avoidable deaths you feel is acceptable in order to "open up the economy"?

Where is the name of any person of science or medicine with any legitimate connection to this virus that is arguing to "open it up" at this time?

"7TIMECHAMP" -- you mocked the fact I said I had read over a 100 pieces off the internet and, had a cable news station on from 7am to midnight. Again I ask, if not from the internet or cable news, where do you recommend I go to become better informed in regards to this crisis?

And finally, to all of you: so, none of you have a reaction to the "letter" from the Michigan nurse at the end of my last post?!? Not really that surprised I guess. Funny how those of you on the opposite side of this debate from me NEVER respond in a detailed fashion to the points I raise.

Back to "yoopskater's" most recent responses. Nobody is claiming we set "normal"...repeat "NORMAL" public policy to protect 100% of all lives. But I have a bulletin for you... THIS ISN"T A FREAKING "NORMAL" SITUATION WE"RE IN, IS IT??? Thus, to maximize the saving of human lives, we'll need to do things that are very uncomfortable -- and not normal. We're all being asked to sacrifice and, those who lose their jobs or, even their businesses are obviously sacrificing even more (you know, like how I lost my job). As I said in my previous post, comparing car accidents to Covid deaths -- and now, apparently, federal funding for cancer research to federal funding to save the economy due to a global pandemic not seen in literally 100 years -- is like comparing apples to watermelons. Make that apples to a hockey stick!

You're right, there isn't a painless solution. However, there is a less painful solution. To the point you made regarding the young college student who could have Covid and not even realize it. YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME! The fact you acknowledge he/she may have it and not know it yet but, that you think it's perfectly OK for that person to go out into society to ensure we keep that old economy humming would be laughable if it wasn't so distressingly lacking in basic understanding of this virus and how it spreads. THAT'S THE REASON for sheltering-in-place until we have a South Korea type testing and contact tracing situation in place. People who are asymptomatic can be significant vectors (spreaders) of the virus and have no idea that they are. In fact, as I again said in my previous post two days ago, there are new studies just in the last week that people are THE MOST CONTAGIOUS from about 3-5 days after becoming infected themselves. The average number of days after initial infection that people become symptomatic is 5-6 days. Meaning, whether you develop symptoms or not, the likelihood is that almost every person that contracts it is most infectious to others before they know they themselves are infected, if they even ever know it. Meaning, unless we have a strong enough testing regimen to ensure that person is identified before becoming an unwilling spreader, the only way to definitively prevent them from spreading it is to stay at home.

Next, the average age that dies from Covid is around 77. And yes, the majority of infections are from ages 55-100. However, a significant number of very healthy people between 35 and 60 have come down with significant symptoms. Significant enough that even if they never needed hospitalization, they suffer significant, long-term lung damage. And no, every death isn't being counted as Covid. In fact, most experts agree that, not only are we vastly under-reporting the number of overall infections in this country due to an extreme lack of testing, we"re also significantly under-reporting the number of deaths directly attributable to Covid as many people are dying at home and, since those folks are rarely tested for Covid after they die, they aren't counted as a "Covid death".

And please explain in detail which "constitutional rights" we're "willingly sacrificing" for safety? Freedom to assemble?!? You obviously aren't reading my posts all the way through. As I said in my previous post, "Remember, a person's right to free speech and assembly ends when their words or actions are clearly/unnecessarily jeopardizing another person's physical safety/health". It's the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. And exactly where in the Constitution is the, "freedom of privacy without undue government oversight" located anyway? I don't recall that one being apart of the Bill of Rights. I get it "yooper", sometimes science and fact-based analysis isn't fun, nor does it give you answers that you like or are comfortable with. Again, everyone is asked to sacrifice. Some much more than others.

Still, unlike previous national crises, you aren't being drafted and asked to withstand Picket's Charge at Gettysburg, or storm the beaches of Normandy, or hold some nameless hill in Korea, or deal with booby traps deep in the jungles of Vietnam. We're simply being asked to stay at home and watch freaking TV. And, as someone who volunteered to serve his country for more than two decades, it gets more than a little frustrating to listen to people like yourself and "Wet Paint" and others on the other side of this, throw around inaccurate and disingenuous talking points just because you're apparently too self-centered and are willing to risk other's lives because you can't do whatever it is you want, whenever you want to.

Finally, unlike you and the others on the other side of this debate, I'll answer the question you posed for me "yoopskater". Again, I served 23 years in this great country's military. Unlike many of those who've taken a chair on the Trumptanic (sorry Lee, I couldn't resist :mrgreen: ), I -- like he and everyone else that serves militarily or is elected to office -- took an oath to "defend the Constitution, from all enemies, both foreign and domestic." I actually took it 4 times so, I'm very familiar with what that oath means. I know that I will be on the right side of history, just as I know which side I would have been on in 1776. Unfortunately, I fear that you, and the others who want to "open it up", won't be. Again, I await the answers to the questions I posed at the beginning of this post.

greybeard58
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by greybeard58 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:42 am

I would like to add, according to a news report on March 20 South Korea had 100 reported deaths from this virus and the US had 150 reported. On April 20 the us reported death count was 41,000+, that is over 1,000 a day just from this virus.
To be truthful for all that believe this virus isn't a problem please just stay within your own circle and keep it spreading among yourselves and leave the others trying to do whats best alone, but please when you get the virus don't go to the hospital and put more in danger after all you think it's a hoax and hoaxes don't kill.
Sorry Karl, Mitch and Lee for this vent.

InThePipes
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by InThePipes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:19 am

Wise Old Man wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:46 am

First, let's tackle "In the Pipes" comment regarding testing where he states, "These tests you speak of all have significant limitations and the quicker the test results are generated the more inaccuracy they generally have." Really? Please provide citation of proof of this claim as being true regarding the inaccuracy of the rapid tests in a general sense. Are there some specific tests developed by specific entities that have had this issue? Yes, but a very small amount.
I'll attempt address Wise Old Man's concern with my statement, my point was simply that testing is important, but there are limitations (in some cases significant limitations). I work in the infectious disease diagnostic industry, because this is a relatively new situation (<4 months) there are not yet any peer-reviewed citations on this topic, here is one article that contains a link to a draft paper (pre-print, it's not been peer-reviewed) that gives you some insight to those limitations:

https://www.livescience.com/covid19-cor ... tives.html

As time goes on, I expect we'll see many other peer-reviewed publications on this topic, it's just too soon right now.

On the serology test front, the FDA actually went so far as to issue a letter to health care providers outlining the limitations of these tests late last week:

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/let ... -providers

Best of luck to you and your family.
Last edited by InThePipes on Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:31 am

I shouldn't have got involved as I don't have time to reply to your "novel posts". But since you have called me out twice specifically I will respond and then be done. I wasn't mocking the fact that you have read a lot or watched a lot of news. I was mocking the fact that you come on here and act like an expert telling everyone else what they should do and back it up by saying I watch a lot of news. I don't think I am the only one that finds that rolls their eyes at that and I stick to my take (of course every news station is equally credible right?). You also don't have the formal education or professional experience to form your own opinion. Science changes as new discoveries are made. Our understanding of the virus a year from now will be vastly different than it is today. A few month's ago the best scientists in the world were saying no human to human transmission right? My point being that everything needs to be viewed objectively and I don't feel that news given you the correct perspective to do that.

I will respond to your Michigan letter by saying this. You hound on the fact that we should "follow the science" (which I generally agree with). What does science say about the odds of catching Covid19 riding a lawnmower by yourself? How about walking by yourself while keeping a distance? (Both against Michigan's order). Does science say that there is a significantly lower chance of catching Covid 19 while buying a lottery ticket or alcohol than garden seeds? If I didn't have your expert opinion to inform me I would think it was more about the state wanting to continue collect those excise taxes.

I will also flip your question of how many lives you will sacrifice to reopen the economy? It better not be less than 60k because the flu killed that in 2018 and nobody was calling for a shelter in place. Same concept could have stopped that right? It isn't a fair question so don't ask it.

The economic results of this can't be ignored. Your article from 2018 is a joke as it doesn't apply to this situation at all. Not what they had in mind when the article was written. You want a couple of articles? That makes it fact for you? Judging by your views you should find these to be reliable sources. Found these on google. One even mentions a specific example about Germany that gave which I was happy to see.

Would love to talk the finer points of fiscal and monetary policy but honestly would be a waste of time, your mind is made up. Just know that there are some very bright minds in the economic field with grave concerns that shouldn't be ignored. Nobody knows what is going to happen but brushing off 40% unemployment and some of the moves by the fed is reckless and naive. I'm out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-polic ... ic-passes/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/busi ... money.html

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:32 am

greybeard58 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:42 am
I would like to add, according to a news report on March 20 South Korea had 100 reported deaths from this virus and the US had 150 reported. On April 20 the us reported death count was 41,000+, that is over 1,000 a day just from this virus.
To be truthful for all that believe this virus isn't a problem please just stay within your own circle and keep it spreading among yourselves and leave the others trying to do whats best alone, but please when you get the virus don't go to the hospital and put more in danger after all you think it's a hoax and hoaxes don't kill.
Sorry Karl, Mitch and Lee for this vent.
I don't know that anybody here is saying it is a hoax or not a problem. All effects and angles do need to be considered though.

goldy313
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by goldy313 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:28 pm

Any comparison between the US and South Korea is beyond ludicrous from a public health standpoint; the US has a 36.4% obesity rate, 12th in the world, South Korea has a 4.7% obesity rate, 183rd in the world out of 191 countries.

COVID-19 disproportionately affects the obese, obesity affects the normal functioning of the body, including the respiratory system. We could follow the same path South Korea did and would still have a far higher infection and death rate.

Last year heart disease killed 647,000 people in the US, COVID-19 is a terrible virus, but it preys largely upon those with underlying problems. Heart disease isn’t contagious but is largely preventable in much of the population.

The only long term result of all this will be twofold 1)health care just got more expensive, by multiples. We won’t be able to pack as many people into waiting rooms, meaning we see less patients but will expect the same if not more revenue, we will have to keep PPE and ventilators on hand we will never need. Long term care facilities will have to charge far more, many will go out of business after being sued. Hospitals and Clinics will go out of business, rural areas will be hit very hard. 2) the executive branch of governments just became a whole lot more powerful. Rural areas became even more irrelevant to those in charge. What happened in New York and many other states should scare everyone.

InThePipes
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by InThePipes » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:29 am

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:28 pm
Any comparison between the US and South Korea is beyond ludicrous from a public health standpoint; the US has a 36.4% obesity rate, 12th in the world, South Korea has a 4.7% obesity rate, 183rd in the world out of 191 countries.

COVID-19 disproportionately affects the obese, obesity affects the normal functioning of the body, including the respiratory system. We could follow the same path South Korea did and would still have a far higher infection and death rate.

Last year heart disease killed 647,000 people in the US, COVID-19 is a terrible virus, but it preys largely upon those with underlying problems. Heart disease isn’t contagious but is largely preventable in much of the population.

The only long term result of all this will be twofold 1)health care just got more expensive, by multiples. We won’t be able to pack as many people into waiting rooms, meaning we see less patients but will expect the same if not more revenue, we will have to keep PPE and ventilators on hand we will never need. Long term care facilities will have to charge far more, many will go out of business after being sued. Hospitals and Clinics will go out of business, rural areas will be hit very hard. 2) the executive branch of governments just became a whole lot more powerful. Rural areas became even more irrelevant to those in charge. What happened in New York and many other states should scare everyone.
If you are willing to share, I'm curious if your perspective on this shifted on COVID-19 (the danger of the disease, not the ancillary impacts) in the last 6 weeks? I understand there will probably be only so far you'll want to go with your comments (and rightly so), but just in a broad sense.

Stang5280
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:01 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:28 pm
Any comparison between the US and South Korea is beyond ludicrous from a public health standpoint; the US has a 36.4% obesity rate, 12th in the world, South Korea has a 4.7% obesity rate, 183rd in the world out of 191 countries.
I would also add that South Korea, and most countries outside of the United States for that matter, have taken much stricter steps to enforce quarantines of infected individuals and their shelter in place orders. If you are diagnosed with COVID-19 in South Korea and not hospitalized, there is a mandatory 14 day quarantine at home, during which time you are tracked by a smartphone app. People who try to get cute and still violate the order have a tracking wristband strapped to them, with the next step being prison time.

While privacy advocates have complained about these measures being draconian, they have been effective. But there is no way that strict enforcement like this would fly in the US, and the parameters of our sheltering orders have been lax compared to other countries (I am looking out across the street at a large active construction site, for example).

Getitright
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Getitright » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:01 pm

Agree that comparison to South Korea may not be entirely apples to apples and certainly some factors come into play that are different, it is very clear their efforts are far superior to ours. Nobody with any credibility can argue that.

Wise Old Man
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Wise Old Man » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:30 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:19 am
Wise Old Man wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:46 am

First, let's tackle "In the Pipes" comment regarding testing where he states, "These tests you speak of all have significant limitations and the quicker the test results are generated the more inaccuracy they generally have." Really? Please provide citation of proof of this claim as being true regarding the inaccuracy of the rapid tests in a general sense. Are there some specific tests developed by specific entities that have had this issue? Yes, but a very small amount.
I'll attempt address Wise Old Man's concern with my statement, my point was simply that testing is important, but there are limitations (in some cases significant limitations). I work in the infectious disease diagnostic industry, because this is a relatively new situation (<4 months) there are not yet any peer-reviewed citations on this topic, here is one article that contains a link to a draft paper (pre-print, it's not been peer-reviewed) that gives you some insight to those limitations:

https://www.livescience.com/covid19-cor ... tives.html

As time goes on, I expect we'll see many other peer-reviewed publications on this topic, it's just too soon right now.

On the serology test front, the FDA actually went so far as to issue a letter to health care providers outlining the limitations of these tests late last week:

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/let ... -providers

Best of luck to you and your family.
"Pipes"... Two very good articles with very good info. Thank you for sharing. I was certainly aware of the limitations of some of the tests but, good to read about some of the specifics involved. It was interesting to note in the FDA piece that the inconsistencies in the serological testing seemed to create more potential false-negatives when used to test patients that might be early in their initial infection timeline. Whereas, some of the inconsistencies in the non-seroligical tests using swabs to do initial diagnosis are due to either patient discomfort with the nature of the test -- having the swab jammed so far back into your nasal cavity -- along with the ability of the health care worker administering the test too actually get the swab back as far as they need to and, ensure it's manipulated properly in order to obtain the appropriate amount of genetic material.

Also great to know we have some on the "inside" of the industry you're in. Please continue to share what you're able in regards to the many testing topics as we move forward. Please keep up the good work you are doing and, best of luck to you and yours as well.

Wise Old Man
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Wise Old Man » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:33 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:28 pm
Any comparison between the US and South Korea is beyond ludicrous from a public health standpoint; the US has a 36.4% obesity rate, 12th in the world, South Korea has a 4.7% obesity rate, 183rd in the world out of 191 countries.

COVID-19 disproportionately affects the obese, obesity affects the normal functioning of the body, including the respiratory system. We could follow the same path South Korea did and would still have a far higher infection and death rate.

Last year heart disease killed 647,000 people in the US, COVID-19 is a terrible virus, but it preys largely upon those with underlying problems. Heart disease isn’t contagious but is largely preventable in much of the population.

The only long term result of all this will be twofold 1)health care just got more expensive, by multiples. We won’t be able to pack as many people into waiting rooms, meaning we see less patients but will expect the same if not more revenue, we will have to keep PPE and ventilators on hand we will never need. Long term care facilities will have to charge far more, many will go out of business after being sued. Hospitals and Clinics will go out of business, rural areas will be hit very hard. 2) the executive branch of governments just became a whole lot more powerful. Rural areas became even more irrelevant to those in charge. What happened in New York and many other states should scare everyone.
"Goldy"... First, I can't say enough about how much I appreciate what you do in these challenging times and I'm truly happy you've made a full recovery. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you regrading your point that "it's beyond ludicrous" to compare the U.S. to South Korea simply on the basis of a public health standpoint. I don't contest your point regarding obesity within each country and, what effect how being obese seems to negatively affect Covid patient outcomes. Certainly, strictly from a fatalities comparison, the obesity differences are a factor. However, as of right now, John's Hopkins is currently showing South Korea as having 10,702 confirmed cases and only 240 total deaths. While we currently have 856,209 confirmed cases and 42,272 deaths. Meaning, South Korea has one Covid death per 213,621 people and we have one death per 7,002 people. That's one heck of a difference and certainly isn't or can't be explained primarily by the differences in obesity (understanding you aren't saying that's the only reason for the difference).

To be clear, I'll restate my biggest reason for making the comparison to South Korea and why it matters is how their country's LEADERSHIP reacted when they first realized what was happening -- bringing top scientists and governmental leaders together to ensure they developed a comprehensive testing and contact tracing program, had the tests available in mass quantities within a couple of weeks -- not MONTHS but WEEKS!! -- as well as quarantining those who had both contracted the virus or been exposed to someone who'd tested positive for 14 days. I'm sorry "Goldy" but, I've read too many comments from numerous scientists that also point to this as being the most significant difference in both the total infections AND deaths between the two countries. We may end up having to "agree to disagree" here. :)

To your comment regarding the number of people who died of heart disease in 2019; I addressed that in a previous post and I noted that the totals of annual deaths from other major contributors -- heart disease, smoking, auto accidents, etc.. -- would still be over a million less deaths than the worst case Covid models when doing zero social distancing. Obviously, our country's citizens have bought into social distancing better than I think most of us thought was possible. Which, has had a significant effect on lowering overall death totals in the short term. Still, most of those models only go out for a couple months. Meaning, there's also a good chance we open up too early and too dramatic a fashion and we get a spike in new cases and deaths. And, IF we don't stay on top of that increase when it happens, we might be back at square one in regards to overwhelming the health care system.

Finally, I don't understand why you feel the executive branches of government (other than the office of President) have become so much more powerful. I haven't seen anyone with any expertise in governmental operations commenting that any of the governors have operated outside of their state constitutions in any type of significant way. Or, why rural areas have become even more irrelevant than they were already perceived. I'm well aware of the current shortages of health care in rural areas, especially the challenges that smaller hospitals and clinics are having staying open. And yes, the longer they aren't able to do elective surgeries the more of a risk that is in the current situation. I'm well aware as I was supposed to have a hip replaced this coming Tuesday at a smaller hospital about an hour away that was postponed on Tuesday to at least the end of May.

TTpuckster
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by TTpuckster » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:01 am

Several of you are saying the flu killed 60,000 people in 2018. That is with a vaccine available that a lot of people took. Think about it.
What is a Green Wave anyway?

grindiangrad-80
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:40 pm

TTpuckster wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:01 am
Several of you are saying the flu killed 60,000 people in 2018. That is with a vaccine available that a lot of people took. Think about it.
This is a great post TT.

Jeffy95
Posts: 891
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by Jeffy95 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:09 am

TTpuckster wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:01 am
Several of you are saying the flu killed 60,000 people in 2018. That is with a vaccine available that a lot of people took. Think about it.
I’m not exactly sure what your point is, but 98% of those people that died did not take the flu shot.

bardown27
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by bardown27 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:45 am

Jeffy95 wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:09 am
TTpuckster wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:01 am
Several of you are saying the flu killed 60,000 people in 2018. That is with a vaccine available that a lot of people took. Think about it.
I’m not exactly sure what your point is, but 98% of those people that died did not take the flu shot.
I think what he’s trying to point out is that 60,000 number would be exponentially higher if there was no vaccine available for the flu shot, a la the Corona virus

blueblood
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by blueblood » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:03 am

Can we get back to hockey talk? I miss kniven’s rants and off the wall comments.... :wink:
Play Like a Champion Today

goldy313
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Re: CoVid-19

Post by goldy313 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:44 pm

[quote=Jeffy95

I’m not exactly sure what your point is, but 98% of those people that died did not take the flu shot.
[/quote]

This is false, provably false. The CDC shows this. That year both Influenza A and Influenza B were prevalent. The Influenza vaccine is made early based on the Influenza strain most prevalent in the Southern Hemisphere during their winter. It was also a particularly deadly strain against all ages and didn’t seem to discriminate.

Among those of working age that died, 9,600 most did not take the flu shot, but not 98%.

Most who died were not vaccinated against the strain of influenza that killed them would be an accurate statement. They were vaccinated against the flu.

goldy313
Posts: 3542
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: CoVid-19

Post by goldy313 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:30 am

As of Saturday the youngest Minnesotan died of Covid-19, he was 44 and lived in a long term care facility. That brought the average age of a Minnesotan that died from Covid-19 down to 83 from 86. Of course the average life expectancy of Minnesotans is 78....every death is a loss but from the day we are born we are one day closer to death. I am becoming less confident by the day in our state and national Government. Some respectable infectious disease MD’s in California have now put the death rate at 0.003.

I get why we suspended everything, say Mayo does 100 elective procedures a day, each elective procedure takes up 5 people’s worth of PPE, a surgeon, an assistant, an anesthesiologist, a surgical tech, and a nurse. That is 5 people, times 100 times 5 days a week. (This is way underestimating Mayo). They would burn through PPE in 2 weeks. You had to stop to get a hold on your PPE as it is largely a “just in time” supply.

We now know just how slow the ICU bed rate is evolving,it is time to slowly start getting back to normal. We have the ICU beds, we have the PPE. We need to adjust our lunch rooms, we need to protect our long term care residents,we will be alright.

grindiangrad-80
Posts: 2474
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by grindiangrad-80 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:10 am

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:30 am
As of Saturday the youngest Minnesotan died of Covid-19, he was 44 and lived in a long term care facility. That brought the average age of a Minnesotan that died from Covid-19 down to 83 from 86. Of course the average life expectancy of Minnesotans is 78....every death is a loss but from the day we are born we are one day closer to death. I am becoming less confident by the day in our state and national Government. Some respectable infectious disease MD’s in California have now put the death rate at 0.003.

I get why we suspended everything, say Mayo does 100 elective procedures a day, each elective procedure takes up 5 people’s worth of PPE, a surgeon, an assistant, an anesthesiologist, a surgical tech, and a nurse. That is 5 people, times 100 times 5 days a week. (This is way underestimating Mayo). They would burn through PPE in 2 weeks. You had to stop to get a hold on your PPE as it is largely a “just in time” supply.

We now know just how slow the ICU bed rate is evolving,it is time to slowly start getting back to normal. We have the ICU beds, we have the PPE. We need to adjust our lunch rooms, we need to protect our long term care residents,we will be alright.
I agree Goldy. I see they are reporting that we are near 1,000,000 cases in the US. With a population of 350,000,000 that means that less than 1/3 of 1 percent of our population has, or has already, had it. That means that over 99.7% of our population has not.

Like Goldy said above, every life is precious. I get that. We need to use caution, but we need to get back toward normal again.

InThePipes
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: CoVid-19

Post by InThePipes » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:34 am

grindiangrad-80 wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:10 am

I agree Goldy. I see they are reporting that we are near 1,000,000 cases in the US. With a population of 350,000,000 that means that less than 1/3 of 1 percent of our population has, or has already, had it. That means that over 99.7% of our population has not.
While we don't have much published data for MN yet, early results from across the US have demonstrated that in various locations between approximately 4% (CA) and 25% (NYC) of the population has been exposed to COVID-19 in early studies that have been conducted. As we've previously discussed in this thread, these analytical test methods are not perfect and the study designs are also less than ideal, but it does confirm that as expected the exposure to this virus is far greater than our test results indicate. Even the MN state health officials have publicly stated the actual exposure to COVID-19 in MN may be 100 times greater than what our positive test results indicate in MN.

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