A Rankings for 1/19/20

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Stang5280
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:54 pm

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:47 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:21 pm
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:18 pm
Orono moved to AA at the youth level this year
So their current success at the high school level has nothing to do with playing AA at the youth level :roll: (Not to mention that Orono’s Bantam A teams haven’t been anything special the past few years.)
They had a really good BA group in 16/17, which would put the kids from that team as juniors and seniors this year,

Their PWA team last year was #1 in the NOW Rankings on YHH, and their PWB team was #5 so that may have influenced their decision to move to AA for the coming years.

They really aren't that close to the AA/A enrollment cut of set by the MSHSL (1252), so don't know why they decided to move up.
Ah, sorry, I didn’t look back that far. That makes more sense as to explaining Orono’s success this season.

Mahtomedi HS is creeping closer to the enrollment cutoff line, so I imagine they are trying to get a head start on the inevitable move to AA, and not sandbagging at the A level.

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:07 pm

rainier2 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:16 pm
7TIMECHAMPS wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:26 pm

My point was that class A is functioning as it is designed to. It was designed with enrollment as the parameters. Not resources.

I’m not worried about that under the current system. I’m worried what it would look like under your system. What is your ideal system anyway? Somehow I have the feeling it involves you “kicking out” the above listed programs.

By the way the HTown haters were adamant last year that once Hermantown was gone nobody could replicate that and you would rest your case. I hope you get your way and after HTown is gone they move SCC into 7A. Won’t hear a peep right? Just making sure because you are commenting on 4 programs now so I’m confused.

You aren’t simply pointing anything out. You have an agenda and you’re trying to poison this thread without it getting moved for not following the HTown thread rule.

In some ways I wish you would get your way and everyone in Hibbing’s way gets moved to AA just so I can hear some Ely (sorry to use you as an example Ely) can whine that they don’t have Hibbings resources and it’s not fair.
You are entitled to as many angry hallucinations as you can muster, but here is why I made my original post: I noticed the other day that Orono was playing AA at youth levels. I don't know if this is a new thing or what. Then, when I looked at these rankings, it stood out to me that a bunch of the top teams (Htown, Mahtomedi, Orono) were all playing AA at youth, but A in HS. Then I realized that it was very likely most if not all SCC players played AA at youth. It struck me as a dismaying trend that to be a top team in Class A, you have to play AA at youth levels.

And since you asked, my ideal system would be to send every team from a big city (Twin Cities, Duluth, St. Cloud, Rochester, Mankato) to AA. Then, if any schools from those areas want to go down to A, they could petition, something which is already done anyway. Then, if one of these "opting down" teams wins an A title, they are moved up to AA. These rankings would look very different if this system were in place, and, I imagine, would be much closer to what was intended when Class A was created.

Are you still confused?
That is a cute way to end your post but I have to say that I am. First you should decide if this was just a random observation ("simply stating") or if it is something that bothers you and should be remedied ("dismayed")? Everything that you say points to you implying that you do in fact think those 4 programs should be moved up (if not then please explain what you mean by "these rankings would look very different").

If you are in fact "dismayed" I am a little confused on that as well. If I were a person that wanted other quality A programs to opt up I would probably be encouraged by the youth association deciding to "opt up" as it likely indicates a shift in mentality that may get passed on to the high school. Instead apparently it signifies that the high school is a bunch of little wussies. I guess I will have to ask my buddy that lives in Orono if he has too caught the easiertothexitis bug.

Almost too many holes in your plan to speak to but a few right off the bat.

1. No chance to defend your title? Seriously?
2. Who gets to decide who can opt down and who can't? And based on what criteria? If they are good? So say Duluth Denfeld, they are in a metro area but they are going to be pretty good in a couple years. They get denied same as Orono or Mahtomedi right? But Warroad who also has a good group coming through gets to stay in A because they have a low population density around them? (Never mind if a Roth/Bethune move in).
3. How long does a team get moved up for after winning a title? One year? So Hermantown wins the title and goes up a year then they can come back down? Or is it a longer period like say 5 years? So then let's say Hibbing gets their magical group to come through and wins a state title. Then Hibbing is moved to AA for say 5 years. Are those kids at the bantam level sticking around for high school? Or do they realize that they now have to go through Andover, DE, Rapids, Htown(who was moved up as well due to winning), CEC, Elk River, etc so they just jump ship over to Virginia, Eveleth, etc to have a chance at an A title themselves?

I guess you can call these more hallucinations but really I am just trying to get some real world applicability here. I want to make sure this plan isn't just some person arbitrarily deciding who gets to plan A and who can't.

kniven
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by kniven » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:14 pm

Duluth Denfeld Good in a couple years. Nope. I’m afraid they are really good right now and will be the next couple years. In a couple years, their window might be closed.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

kniven
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by kniven » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:17 pm

Go through CEC to get to state? You really think the masses are concerned with CEC? Wow. That’s awesome to know 👍👍👍
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:37 pm

Or how about this scenario. Greenway finishes off their magical run last year and wins state. How long are they pushed to AA? Do players like Troumbly and Miller even stick around? How to the underclassmen parents feel about that?

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 276
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:40 pm

kniven wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:14 pm
Duluth Denfeld Good in a couple years. Nope. I’m afraid they are really good right now and will be the next couple years. In a couple years, their window might be closed.
Duluth Denfeld finished #3 in the YHH Bantam A NOW rankings last year, meaning those kids are sophmores. That is their highest ranking since 16-17. So how would that mean their window will be closed in a couple of years?

7TIMECHAMPS
Posts: 276
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:43 pm

kniven wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:17 pm
Go through CEC to get to state? You really think the masses are concerned with CEC? Wow. That’s awesome to know 👍👍👍
I get that you seem like to rag on your team lately but fact of the matter is that CEC would be a challenging matchup for almost any A team in sections over the past few seasons. Maybe not DE or Andover but still challenging.

kniven
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by kniven » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:53 pm

Figure it out. You can do it. I believe in you sunshine 😊👍
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

kniven
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Location: Duluth area

Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by kniven » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:54 pm

DE and Andover are AA high school there sunshine.....
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

7TIMECHAMPS
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by 7TIMECHAMPS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:59 pm

kniven wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:54 pm
DE and Andover are AA high school there sunshine.....
Are you even following the conversation? We are talking about a team in 7A getting moved up to AA because they won the state title. So correct, that would put them in a section with Andover and East.

Stang5280
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm

Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|

Section 8 guy
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Section 8 guy » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:53 pm

Three observations:

1)). Nate Werner played his youth hockey in St Cloud so he did play AA in youth...just since that came up. I believe most of the SCC kids did but don’t have the data. Just remember the history.
2). Some kind of relegation system has been talked about several times on here and many think it makes sense. 5 years is probably too long but maybe two. And maybe it’s after two titles in three or four years or something. But there is a version there that is reasonable that protects what many think the A tourney was intended for. To grow smaller market hockey.
3). There are several programs that opt up or down now. Someone decides who gets to so that part wouldn’t be new at all.
4). Playing AA at youth and A at high school doesn’t pass the smell test. If it’s preparing for the high school team to move up. Great! Let’s see if that applies to any of the 3 (SCC is different in that regard). For now I’m skeptical outside of Maht getting forced to.
5). Love the Rankings! Agree with all of it! :D

bardown27
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by bardown27 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.

Puck8
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Puck8 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:48 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
=D> :lol:
This discussion has turned the normally most entertaining and informative thread of each week into ](*,)

Duckguy13
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:59 pm

Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Duckguy13 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:26 pm

Agreed, thanks stang, elliot, and other rankers...this unfortunately turned into the A vs AA thread without provocation. Switch threads if you just want to bitch about who should be forced or not forced to move up or think they should consider moving up.
Looking forward to some great A matchups this week, and really hope the EG SCC game happens. I honestly wish Pine City had a few tougher games than Princeton, Monticello, etc. Then I think most would be more concerned with NB, and maybe SF or Chisago for 2 thru 4... best of luck to all.

Duckguy13
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:59 pm

Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Duckguy13 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:28 pm

My appologies...

Mr Class, I was having a brain fart.

Appreciate all your guys insite.

ClassAGuy
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by ClassAGuy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:25 am

elliott70 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:02 pm
Well you have Tartan at 18.
I think so St. Paul is better at least today
South St Paul got Beat 8-0 by Mahtomedi tonight

I just dont think they are a top 20 team...

ClassAGuy
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by ClassAGuy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:49 am

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.
Lets Slow down on Mankato East.

They are .500 and I give them credit for playing outside the Big 9 and yes Section 1A is the worst Section in Class A this year.

But .... Mankato East giving a 2 or 3 seed a hell of a game.

They played Cathedral without Jack Smith got wrecked 9-3, they got Beat by LDC they night before.

They have been beaten soundly by Hudson, Mound Westonka, St Cloud Public, St Louis Park and Century.

They have Hutch win and have beaten the Section 1A Teams..I think they are the favorite for 1A but they will be in a ton of trouble at St Paul if they get there and face a Hermantown, Warroad, SCC, Orono in the first round.

bardown27
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by bardown27 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:18 am

ClassAGuy wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:49 am
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.
Lets Slow down on Mankato East.

They are .500 and I give them credit for playing outside the Big 9 and yes Section 1A is the worst Section in Class A this year.

But .... Mankato East giving a 2 or 3 seed a hell of a game.

They played Cathedral without Jack Smith got wrecked 9-3, they got Beat by LDC they night before.

They have been beaten soundly by Hudson, Mound Westonka, St Cloud Public, St Louis Park and Century.

They have Hutch win and have beaten the Section 1A Teams..I think they are the favorite for 1A but they will be in a ton of trouble at St Paul if they get there and face a Hermantown, Warroad, SCC, Orono in the first round.
Yeah and a lot of people thought Luverne was going to be in a lot of trouble against Hermantown a few years ago, and Mankato East and Northfield were going to be in a lot of trouble against Mahtomedi two and three years ago, respectively. Once you get there, everyone’s got a chance.

Stang5280
Posts: 1796
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 pm

bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.
From my perspective, I agree that East is the most talented team in 1A, and should be favored to win that section. In fact, I had them at #12 in my preseason rankings, which turned out to be way too aggressive.

However, East has not played up to their potential on a consistent basis. Their best wins are 5-2 over West and 4-1 over Shakopee. Those are solid results, but nothing earth shattering that would really push East into the rankings. They also have a few head-scratchers, notably the 4-1 loss to LDC. East was brutal around the holidays, losing four straight, and was not competitive against the St. Cloud schools (regular and Cathedral), and Century just blasted them 7-2.

Anyway, my rankings tend to be more based on past results rather than trying to be predictive. East hasn’t quite regained my trust yet, but they are definitely on my radar as one of the first few teams out. They have three big section contests over the next few weeks, and a sweep would definitely vault East solidly into my rankings.

Duckguy13
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Duckguy13 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:43 pm

Monticello up 4-2

Shots 26-12 Alex

4 great goals by Monticello

1 great snipe by alex

Fast pace!!

goldy313
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by goldy313 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:21 pm

Faribault 4
East 2

Faribault might very well be the top seed in 1AA and can’t field a JV team.

East has some talent but are inconsistent as anything.

New Ulm is playing pretty well, Hutch just beat Mound Westonka.....there are a couple of nominees to round out next week’s rankings.

stateofhawkey
Posts: 65
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by stateofhawkey » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:58 am

Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 pm
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm
Stang5280 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Anyone have any questions or comments about our actual rankings? :|
One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.
From my perspective, I agree that East is the most talented team in 1A, and should be favored to win that section. In fact, I had them at #12 in my preseason rankings, which turned out to be way too aggressive.

However, East has not played up to their potential on a consistent basis. Their best wins are 5-2 over West and 4-1 over Shakopee. Those are solid results, but nothing earth shattering that would really push East into the rankings. They also have a few head-scratchers, notably the 4-1 loss to LDC. East was brutal around the holidays, losing four straight, and was not competitive against the St. Cloud schools (regular and Cathedral), and Century just blasted them 7-2.

Anyway, my rankings tend to be more based on past results rather than trying to be predictive. East hasn’t quite regained my trust yet, but they are definitely on my radar as one of the first few teams out. They have three big section contests over the next few weeks, and a sweep would definitely vault East solidly into my rankings.
I have been following the rankings for A closely for a few weeks now, paying attention to which teams came out of which sections. I also started to noticed the trend that not a single 1A team was making it into the rankings. East consistently received votes, but now they lost to Faribault last night to muddy things up even more. I was a little shocked to see Faribault's 11-3-2 record, but then went through their schedule and easily figured out that it's very light. One could argue that Mankato West, Mankato East, or Faribault could all win this section. West beat Faribault, Faribault beat East, East beat West. I would also agree that whoever comes out of this section will certainly be in trouble when they reach St. Paul. My personal opinion is that whoever gets to play against 1A in state will, unfortunately, have a pretty easy matchup. But, I hope to be proven wrong.

I think that if one of the current top 4 teams in these rankings doesn't win state, I will be absolutely shocked.

Stang5280
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:29 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:21 pm
Faribault 4
East 2

Faribault might very well be the top seed in 1AA and can’t field a JV team.

East has some talent but are inconsistent as anything.

New Ulm is playing pretty well, Hutch just beat Mound Westonka.....there are a couple of nominees to round out next week’s rankings.
I noticed on Twitter that there was no JV game and was going to ask you about that, but you beat me to punch. Yeah, it’s crazy to think that Faribault could come out of 1A given how down that program was a few years ago. Coach Weasler has done a nice job with what they have there.

Stang5280
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Re: A Rankings for 1/19/20

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:49 pm

stateofhawkey wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:58 am
Stang5280 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 pm
bardown27 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:25 pm


One comment I have: everyone ranking class A teams is sleeping on Mankato East. They have the best forward duo of Salzle and Liffrig in 1A, Brueske has been playing very well fora young tendy, and 1A is awful this year. A team like Lourdes, who has been in the section final the last two years is currently 0-18. Talk about a 180. East should WALK through sections, and should give any team who gets the 2 or 3 seed at state a hell of a game. East could even be a semifinal team.

Punch their ticket to St. Paul now.
From my perspective, I agree that East is the most talented team in 1A, and should be favored to win that section. In fact, I had them at #12 in my preseason rankings, which turned out to be way too aggressive.

However, East has not played up to their potential on a consistent basis. Their best wins are 5-2 over West and 4-1 over Shakopee. Those are solid results, but nothing earth shattering that would really push East into the rankings. They also have a few head-scratchers, notably the 4-1 loss to LDC. East was brutal around the holidays, losing four straight, and was not competitive against the St. Cloud schools (regular and Cathedral), and Century just blasted them 7-2.

Anyway, my rankings tend to be more based on past results rather than trying to be predictive. East hasn’t quite regained my trust yet, but they are definitely on my radar as one of the first few teams out. They have three big section contests over the next few weeks, and a sweep would definitely vault East solidly into my rankings.
I have been following the rankings for A closely for a few weeks now, paying attention to which teams came out of which sections. I also started to noticed the trend that not a single 1A team was making it into the rankings. East consistently received votes, but now they lost to Faribault last night to muddy things up even more. I was a little shocked to see Faribault's 11-3-2 record, but then went through their schedule and easily figured out that it's very light. One could argue that Mankato West, Mankato East, or Faribault could all win this section. West beat Faribault, Faribault beat East, East beat West. I would also agree that whoever comes out of this section will certainly be in trouble when they reach St. Paul. My personal opinion is that whoever gets to play against 1A in state will, unfortunately, have a pretty easy matchup. But, I hope to be proven wrong.

I think that if one of the current top 4 teams in these rankings doesn't win state, I will be absolutely shocked.
Rather than writing that entire response above, I could have just waited a few hours for Mankato East to fall on their face #-o

I ranked a few of the 1A and 3A teams earlier in the season: Hutch and Mankato East and West are the ones that come to mind. But none of them have been consistent enough to stick around in the rankings. I feel like those two sections are even weaker than usual, so someone would have to string together a nice stretch to spend more than a week or two near the tail end.

Also, I wouldn’t discount Dodge County as a sleeper pick in 1A. The youngsters are starting to put things together, and they just mauled Tartan last night.

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