Mounds View and Irondale Co-op

[The Exiled One]

The only thing I would contest in your note is that I don't think the merger is going to stop the defections. MV / I is one of the largest feeders of the MN Made Choice League, and the indication is that trend is going to continue in the 2015/16 season. A lack of ice time is one of the main drivers of the defections.

I didn't say it would, I said that's what it was designed to do. Trying to stay optimistic, but it ain't easy! Ice time was up considerably this year and is on par with most other associations. Obviously, it's still less than Mn Made.

I just think it is funny to see someone actively defending not playing at AA when they can field 4 Bantam and 6 PeeWee teams. Things must be awful in Roseau...

I gotta give Roseau props for doing what they do. I think MVI's modest results speak for themselves. However, with both the B1's & PWA's doing okay this year, maybe they'll move up to AA next year? I'm not in charge of that decision, but I'd support it.

[old goalie85]

Highland/Tarten both move on in single A for the 2nd year in a row. Highland has 5 pee-wee teams/tarten 4 teams. MV/I fits right into D2 . Maht is a single A high school that has five teams at a level as well.

The system sucks.

[irish skater]

Tarten goes to state every year w/this pee-wee group @ A. They are a AA highj school. I don't think that is why Mn hockey came up w/this program. I think it was meant to allow the North Branches of the world the chance to go to state.MV/I two AA's that is crazy. I doubt the Mn hockey board sat down and said would't it be great if two AA highschool programs co-opted and then opted down so they could go to regions. They should have stayed apart and went B1.

OG, I'm sure you know who I am, but my son has been in association hockey for ten years, 4 mite, 2 sq, 2pw, 2 bantam. The first two years in mites wasn't really competitive, just jamborees. I moved him to MV school last year, also MV association. This year he was a second year bantam. It was the first time in association hockey he played on a winning team. It wasn't like a 40-3 team. We won 12 or 13 more games than we lost. The previous teams he played on got pounded. Isn't this more about trying to create a positive environment for our kids? Which is worse going into high school, playing on a competitive A team in association or playing on AA teams that were never competitive? This wasn't a stacked team he played on. They had a decent year. I don't feel bad at all about how it all turned out. As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled he finally got a chance to play on a team that was competitive and not overwhelmed. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. He's a kid. I have no delusions of him playing in the NHL. I just want him to have fun playing a game he loves. Looking back, it wasn't fun at all losing year after year. And that's what it's all about, having fun.

[old goalie85]

I was wondering where you were. I'm talking about the system/program as a whole. Not just V. I agree as parents you guys are great folks and do whats best for you and yours.[as well as others around you as my family knows] My problem is in a system that has no rules. I'm the bantam director in a D2 assc. it is just about impossible to pick levels for our kids. I say make AA/A like MSHL. With option to opt up NOT down. Trophys are great but not everyone should get one ! My opinion. You and I see eye to eye on most things not this. Say hi to the fam

[MrBoDangles]

Tarten goes to state every year w/this pee-wee group @ A. They are a AA highj school. I don't think that is why Mn hockey came up w/this program. I think it was meant to allow the North Branches of the world the chance to go to state.MV/I two AA's that is crazy. I doubt the Mn hockey board sat down and said would't it be great if two AA highschool programs co-opted and then opted down so they could go to regions. They should have stayed apart and went B1.

OG, I'm sure you know who I am, but my son has been in association hockey for ten years, 4 mite, 2 sq, 2pw, 2 bantam. The first two years in mites wasn't really competitive, just jamborees. I moved him to MV school last year, also MV association. This year he was a second year bantam. It was the first time in association hockey he played on a winning team. It wasn't like a 40-3 team. We won 12 or 13 more games than we lost. The previous teams he played on got pounded. Isn't this more about trying to create a positive environment for our kids? Which is worse going into high school, playing on a competitive A team in association or playing on AA teams that were never competitive? This wasn't a stacked team he played on. They had a decent year. I don't feel bad at all about how it all turned out. As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled he finally got a chance to play on a team that was competitive and not overwhelmed. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. He's a kid. I have no delusions of him playing in the NHL. I just want him to have fun playing a game he loves. Looking back, it wasn't fun at all losing year after year. And that's what it's all about, having fun.

My take is from info you provided and your move from there to there. So I'll also talk openly.

-The games always seemed to be close between the former team and Mounds View alone.
- The former team lost one of their better players and MVI gained one.
- I think the score was 6-2 for the former team against Mounds View and Irondale's best combined.

Is it at all possible that the A schedule hurt?

I'm also trying to find the answer..

[old goalie85]

Even if the team went AA they can still play a bunch of single A teams if the coach wants. The problem is the playoffs. Why should Pine City have to play Champlins top team ?? So the Champlin kids can feel good ?? What about the kids from Pine City ???

[4on5again]

I couldn't help but notice that the "A" or "AA" theme has been a hot topic lately, and has certainly drawn a line in the sand. Aren't we simply talking about a new label system? Clearly, the associations have decided where they want to compete, weather that means they are now "competitive" or not is in the eye of the beholder.

My question is: Would these associations that moved from "AA" down to "A", have done the same if the old system were in place (making them choose B1)?

Perhaps the new AA and A designation took some of the sting out of moving down for these metro area teams. A state appearance and a new banner in the arena with "A" still looks sweet.

[4on5again]

In case anyone cares... yes I am truly a first time contributor to this forum. I have noticed that it is sometimes questioned when a new member chimes in.

[SCBlueLiner]

Opting down to A from AA still gives an association the opportunity to play against AA associations. Under the old system if a team elects B1 they cannot play A. In theory the AA/A label is only supposed to exist for State Tournament play. In reality, in year one you saw associations hold tournaments that were exclusivley for AA teams, or A teams.

[4on5again]

Thanks BlueLiner. It helps to point out the theoretical difference between the new A and the old B1. In practice, it certainly seems that they are not that different. The difference is that a team that opts down to A is given a hall pass to play the low hanging fruit of the AA's and still make a sand-bag run in the end in the A's. Not fair to the old system B1's now running with the A's. Old system wasn't perfect, but not so blurry.

[irish skater]

Tarten goes to state every year w/this pee-wee group @ A. They are a AA highj school. I don't think that is why Mn hockey came up w/this program. I think it was meant to allow the North Branches of the world the chance to go to state.MV/I two AA's that is crazy. I doubt the Mn hockey board sat down and said would't it be great if two AA highschool programs co-opted and then opted down so they could go to regions. They should have stayed apart and went B1.

OG, I'm sure you know who I am, but my son has been in association hockey for ten years, 4 mite, 2 sq, 2pw, 2 bantam. The first two years in mites wasn't really competitive, just jamborees. I moved him to MV school last year, also MV association. This year he was a second year bantam. It was the first time in association hockey he played on a winning team. It wasn't like a 40-3 team. We won 12 or 13 more games than we lost. The previous teams he played on got pounded. Isn't this more about trying to create a positive environment for our kids? Which is worse going into high school, playing on a competitive A team in association or playing on AA teams that were never competitive? This wasn't a stacked team he played on. They had a decent year. I don't feel bad at all about how it all turned out. As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled he finally got a chance to play on a team that was competitive and not overwhelmed. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. He's a kid. I have no delusions of him playing in the NHL. I just want him to have fun playing a game he loves. Looking back, it wasn't fun at all losing year after year. And that's what it's all about, having fun.

My take is from info you provided and your move from there to there. So I'll also talk openly.

-The games always seemed to be close between the former team and Mounds View alone.
- The former team lost one of their better players and MVI gained one.
- I think the score was 6-2 for the former team against Mounds View and Irondale's best combined.

Is it at all possible that the A schedule hurt?

I'm also trying to find the answer..

I know some people may find this hard to believe, but the decision to move to MV wasn't a hockey decision. I didn't know one coach. I knew one player my son had played with two years earlier on a summer team. I knew nothing about their association or coaches or players. I wanted my son to attend MV schools. They're a very good school district. I'm not knocking FL's schools. I just wanted something different.

That said, I wasn't running to MV's hockey program, but I'd be lying if I didn't say a part of me wanted to get away from the program he was in. That was a decision I made. It weighed in a little, but not much. His first year at MV before the merger the bantams had two teams. His team had two lines. Lots of playing time. They won eight games his first year. If I moved him for hockey, I didn't do my homework Then came the merger. MVI had (I think) three skaters from Irondale and a goalie. They were all very instrumental and played a big part to the success of the team. It's not like we went 42-0. We were in the neighborhood of 30-17-2, give or take a few in either direction. By my standards, it was a success. It was also the most positive experience in hockey my son has had up to this point. They all got along. The parents got along. It was a win, win.

I don't think anyone knew how they would do over the course of the season. We had (estimates) four returning kids, three skaters and a goalie from Irondale, and the rest came from within the MV system. It was an unknown.

They started off kind of rough. We'd win one, lose two. Win one, lose two. Then in the early to mid part of December they started winning. Yes, we did lose to FL. Knowing the kids from both teams, I think if we played each other ten times, it would be 5-5. One win isn't a season. The kids beat some real good teams, then maybe lost to some they shouldn't. That's with any sport though. The talent of the MVI and FL teams would be similar in my mind. MVI decided to play A and (I'm speaking for most of the kids) I believe they all had a very good experience. FL decided to play AA. I'm not in their locker room, but up until the last week or two, I'll bet they weren't having a time of their lives. They did finish very strong. A tip of the hat to them for that. I was happy to see that.

To wrap it up, I'd say put a kid in an environment that they can be competitive in and have fun. It's no fun knowing that night after night your team is going to get pounded. I don't know if the success of the MVI merger is going to last forever. All I can say is, at least at the bantam level, they sure had fun. That's all I cared about.

[MrBoDangles]

OG, I'm sure you know who I am, but my son has been in association hockey for ten years, 4 mite, 2 sq, 2pw, 2 bantam. The first two years in mites wasn't really competitive, just jamborees. I moved him to MV school last year, also MV association. This year he was a second year bantam. It was the first time in association hockey he played on a winning team. It wasn't like a 40-3 team. We won 12 or 13 more games than we lost. The previous teams he played on got pounded. Isn't this more about trying to create a positive environment for our kids? Which is worse going into high school, playing on a competitive A team in association or playing on AA teams that were never competitive? This wasn't a stacked team he played on. They had a decent year. I don't feel bad at all about how it all turned out. As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled he finally got a chance to play on a team that was competitive and not overwhelmed. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. He's a kid. I have no delusions of him playing in the NHL. I just want him to have fun playing a game he loves. Looking back, it wasn't fun at all losing year after year. And that's what it's all about, having fun.

My take is from info you provided and your move from there to there. So I'll also talk openly.

-The games always seemed to be close between the former team and Mounds View alone.
- The former team lost one of their better players and MVI gained one.
- I think the score was 6-2 for the former team against Mounds View and Irondale's best combined.

Is it at all possible that the A schedule hurt?

I'm also trying to find the answer..

I know some people may find this hard to believe, but the decision to move to MV wasn't a hockey decision. I didn't know one coach. I knew one player my son had played with two years earlier on a summer team. I knew nothing about their association or coaches or players. I wanted my son to attend MV schools. They're a very good school district. I'm not knocking FL's schools. I just wanted something different.

That said, I wasn't running to MV's hockey program, but I'd be lying if I didn't say a part of me wanted to get away from the program he was in. That was a decision I made. It weighed in a little, but not much. His first year at MV before the merger the bantams had two teams. His team had two lines. Lots of playing time. They won eight games his first year. If I moved him for hockey, I didn't do my homework Then came the merger. MVI had (I think) three skaters from Irondale and a goalie. They were all very instrumental and played a big part to the success of the team. It's not like we went 42-0. We were in the neighborhood of 30-17-2, give or take a few in either direction. By my standards, it was a success. It was also the most positive experience in hockey my son has had up to this point. They all got along. The parents got along. It was a win, win.

I don't think anyone knew how they would do over the course of the season. We had (estimates) four returning kids, three skaters and a goalie from Irondale, and the rest came from within the MV system. It was an unknown.

They started off kind of rough. We'd win one, lose two. Win one, lose two. Then in the early to mid part of December they started winning. Yes, we did lose to FL. Knowing the kids from both teams, I think if we played each other ten times, it would be 5-5. One win isn't a season. The kids beat some real good teams, then maybe lost to some they shouldn't. That's with any sport though. The talent of the MVI and FL teams would be similar in my mind. MVI decided to play A and (I'm speaking for most of the kids) I believe they all had a very good experience. FL decided to play AA. I'm not in their locker room, but up until the last week or two, I'll bet they weren't having a time of their lives. They did finish very strong. A tip of the hat to them for that. I was happy to see that.

To wrap it up, I'd say put a kid in an environment that they can be competitive in and have fun. It's no fun knowing that night after night your team is going to get pounded. I don't know if the success of the MVI merger is going to last forever. All I can say is, at least at the bantam level, they sure had fun. That's all I cared about.

With ya 100%

[4on5again]

Irish brings up some touching, but contradicting points. 30 wins in a Bantam A season makes them feel like a winner and that they compete. Then claims that MVI would split a mythical 10 game series with Bantam AA team (Forest Lake). One thing contradicts the other. Does MVI compete with AA teams or not? Or, how bad is Forest Lake? (YHH says 20 wins, district champion over WBL STW and others, and regional berth in AA). It doesn't make sense to argue opting down, then claiming you hang with AA's -unless MVI is sandbagging.

Sandbagging may feel better than losing now, but hard to see them preparing a run with bigger dogs in 2A high school over next few years.

[irish skater]

Irish brings up some touching, but contradicting points. 30 wins in a Bantam A season makes them feel like a winner and that they compete. Then claims that MVI would split a mythical 10 game series with Bantam AA team (Forest Lake). One thing contradicts the other. Does MVI compete with AA teams or not? Or, how bad is Forest Lake? (YHH says 20 wins, district champion over WBL STW and others, and regional berth in AA). It doesn't make sense to argue opting down, then claiming you hang with AA's -unless MVI is sandbagging.

Sandbagging may feel better than losing now, but hard to see them preparing a run with bigger dogs in 2A high school over next few years.

Nice attitude. Did you read the part that we won eight games the year previous? And, yes, A teams play AA teams all the time. It's when it comes to the post season that they go their separate ways. I wasn't saying Forest Lake is bad or good. Do you think that there are 50 (a guess) AA teams, then the A teams should be ranked starting at 51? Not how it works. There's some crossover. I don't need to justify anything. I'd do it over in a heartbeat. It's like politics, no matter what the format is, someone will be pissed off over it.

You do have a nice "edge" to your post for a first timer. New name perhaps?

[old goalie85]

It's not me. I use the same name every time !!

[4on5again]

Okay my bad. Everyone here should get a trophy. That's a win win right

[irish skater]

Okay my bad. Everyone here should get a trophy. That's a win win right

OG, not you. Why the agitation? Why not state your point and move on? Don't be a dick. Did I pick on you in high school or something?

[4on5again]

Woah, all personal and defensive about comments made about an A/AA comment on this thread. Really its about the teams that have to deal with the sandbagging. Non-incorporated small "A" associations, and the associations that have both AA and A. They are the ones that used to be B1 and are now "getting pounded" by the teams opting down to A. All so your experience is better. Maybe if the focus is on MAML, Highland, Mahtomedi instead, you won't get so bent out of shape.

Ps. not many AA teams on these schedules either. Can't keep that post season BS going

[irish skater]

Woah, all personal and defensive about comments made about an A/AA comment on this thread. Really its about the teams that have to deal with the sandbagging. Non-incorporated small "A" associations, and the associations that have both AA and A. They are the ones that used to be B1 and are now "getting pounded" by the teams opting down to A. All so your experience is better. Maybe if the focus is on MAML, Highland, Mahtomedi instead, you won't get so bent out of shape.

Ps. not many AA teams on these schedules either. Can't keep that post season BS going

This is my last post. I'm absolutely not bent out of shape. You're missing the boat. My comments only pertain to the bantam level. I don't know about the rest. Last year the bantams at MV had two teams with two lines. We won eight games and lost a million. We joined with Irondale (it's in the Mounds View school district) and the "A" team picked up four kids. The rest came from last year's B1 team and three or four second year "A" kids and two first year kids. We won more games. No one knew how we'd do at the beginning. It was an unknown. And we got off to a rough start, but started to put it together. I'm not hung up on the designations. My kid doesn't care he plays on an "A" team and not a "AA" team. Ask him. Parents care. Parents want their kids on "AA" teams. Call us a "B" team with benefits to play "A" teams. I don't care. Period. End of story. Go agitate someone else.

[4on5again]

Maybe my opinion is not popular. If it agitates anyone else... my apologies. We do live in that world of "give everyone a trophy" and entitlement. Sadly, I think the days of good players putting the team on his/her back are over as well. Maybe we all should just make a change in the competition.