Tier 1 Winter Hockey has no place in Minnesota

[JSR]

My GUESS is that the MN Hockey residence rule has a lot to do with this. In order to play for AA at any age, the player would have to either live in the community where it is based, or go to school there.

This would explain the before and after Tier I requests being denied as well. All the players on the Blades for example would have to live in or go to school in the community where it is based.

How could the Residency rule apply to Tier 1? In every other State it's a free for all. Team Wisconsin is a Before and After Team and they pull in Players from all over the entire State. What is the point of Tier 1 if they apply the residency rule?

Minnesota Hockey rules apply in Minnesota, and therefore "every other state" (especially Wisconsin) is irrelevant. Under the Minnesota Hockey rules, as I understand them, any Tier 1 team that is not school affiliated, would need to have all the players be from a single association, unless the waiver process was followed. This is why I'm guessing the status was granted to AA, and not to the others that requested before and after.

I understand the way the bylaws currently read were the impediment to B&A happening this coming season. I also understand those bylaws are under reconstruction. However, is it really an "issue". Actualyl places like Wisconsina re relevant as they are being looked at for do's and don'ts of how to model the B&A program. In wisconsin the TW B&A program has a stipulation that you have to play HIGH SCHOOL hockey int he winter to be part of the program. Well since it is only for high school age kids, and you can only play B&A (in Wisconsin) if you play high school hockey, is the "association" part of the language even relevant for those age groups?? If you put that language in there and jsut tweak that other lanaguage it won't effect Pee Wee's and younger and it will have minimal effect on high school age Bantams as the ones legitimately able to make one of these teams are probably playing high school hockey anyway.... just saying it's not as complicated as you think.

[SECoach]

How could the Residency rule apply to Tier 1? In every other State it's a free for all. Team Wisconsin is a Before and After Team and they pull in Players from all over the entire State. What is the point of Tier 1 if they apply the residency rule?

Minnesota Hockey rules apply in Minnesota, and therefore "every other state" (especially Wisconsin) is irrelevant. Under the Minnesota Hockey rules, as I understand them, any Tier 1 team that is not school affiliated, would need to have all the players be from a single association, unless the waiver process was followed. This is why I'm guessing the status was granted to AA, and not to the others that requested before and after.

I understand the way the bylaws currently read were the impediment to B&A happening this coming season. I also understand those bylaws are under reconstruction. However, is it really an "issue". Actualyl places like Wisconsina re relevant as they are being looked at for do's and don'ts of how to model the B&A program. In wisconsin the TW B&A program has a stipulation that you have to play HIGH SCHOOL hockey int he winter to be part of the program. Well since it is only for high school age kids, and you can only play B&A (in Wisconsin) if you play high school hockey, is the "association" part of the language even relevant for those age groups?? If you put that language in there and jsut tweak that other lanaguage it won't effect Pee Wee's and younger and it will have minimal effect on high school age Bantams as the ones legitimately able to make one of these teams are probably playing high school hockey anyway.... just saying it's not as complicated as you think.

Didn't say it was complicated. I just don't think you know what you are talking about to the degree that you tend to imply, such as you've done in the above post.

[old goalie85]

NSP is back !!!

[JSR]

Minnesota Hockey rules apply in Minnesota, and therefore "every other state" (especially Wisconsin) is irrelevant. Under the Minnesota Hockey rules, as I understand them, any Tier 1 team that is not school affiliated, would need to have all the players be from a single association, unless the waiver process was followed. This is why I'm guessing the status was granted to AA, and not to the others that requested before and after.

I understand the way the bylaws currently read were the impediment to B&A happening this coming season. I also understand those bylaws are under reconstruction. However, is it really an "issue". Actualyl places like Wisconsina re relevant as they are being looked at for do's and don'ts of how to model the B&A program. In wisconsin the TW B&A program has a stipulation that you have to play HIGH SCHOOL hockey int he winter to be part of the program. Well since it is only for high school age kids, and you can only play B&A (in Wisconsin) if you play high school hockey, is the "association" part of the language even relevant for those age groups?? If you put that language in there and jsut tweak that other lanaguage it won't effect Pee Wee's and younger and it will have minimal effect on high school age Bantams as the ones legitimately able to make one of these teams are probably playing high school hockey anyway.... just saying it's not as complicated as you think.

Didn't say it was complicated. I just don't think you know what you are talking about to the degree that you tend to imply, such as you've done in the above post.

I think I have been pretty spot on in all my information on this topic to date and ahead of the rest of you with your heads in the sand, but I guess you are free to think as you wish

[puckbreath]

I understand the way the bylaws currently read were the impediment to B&A happening this coming season. I also understand those bylaws are under reconstruction. However, is it really an "issue". Actualyl places like Wisconsina re relevant as they are being looked at for do's and don'ts of how to model the B&A program. In wisconsin the TW B&A program has a stipulation that you have to play HIGH SCHOOL hockey int he winter to be part of the program. Well since it is only for high school age kids, and you can only play B&A (in Wisconsin) if you play high school hockey, is the "association" part of the language even relevant for those age groups?? If you put that language in there and jsut tweak that other lanaguage it won't effect Pee Wee's and younger and it will have minimal effect on high school age Bantams as the ones legitimately able to make one of these teams are probably playing high school hockey anyway.... just saying it's not as complicated as you think.

Didn't say it was complicated. I just don't think you know what you are talking about to the degree that you tend to imply, such as you've done in the above post.

I think I have been pretty spot on in all my information on this topic to date and ahead of the rest of you with your heads in the sand, but I guess you are free to think as you wish

Question for you JSR.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're in Wisconsin if I'm not mistaken ?

[JDUBBS1280]

This is why participation rates in MN dwarf that of every other state.

Techincally this is not true. Michigan's enrolled USA Hockey numbers are on par with Minensota's as are Massachussettes, the number of kids they send to D1 re not but technically participation numbers are similar

Michigan also has twice the population of Minnesota. The point that was made is 100% valid. It's no coincidence that MN and MA have stronger HS systems and also higher per-capita participation.

[JDUBBS1280]

What I do not understand is why a Wisconsin man is so interested in starting Tier I hockey in Minnesota.

BINGO!

[JDUBBS1280]

I would bet that the U14 (boys) will fill up faster than anyone is ready for!! All of the 7th and 8th (some 9th) graders competing against "the best" competition in the country for two years before HS, playing 60+ games and for a National title. Then they can open enroll to the HS of their choice as a 9th grader.....it will fill up FAST!! I guess we will find out over the next few months.

I have heard that AA has lost almost all of their players (boys) that would make up the U18. Where will the new kids come from? Do the players have to attend AA to play Tier 1? (Similar to Shattuck) If they do, there does not seem to be any current players still around.

My GUESS is that the MN Hockey residence rule has a lot to do with this. In order to play for AA at any age, the player would have to either live in the community where it is based, or go to school there.

This would explain the before and after Tier I requests being denied as well. All the players on the Blades for example would have to live in or go to school in the community where it is based.

Need some clarification here. To my knowledge AA is a school. Hence the residency rule is moot. It's basically a private school like Schattuck for the purposes of this scenario so I don't thinkt he residency rule applies here.

For the B&A teams, the way I read it was that MN Hockey some language in the bylaws that prohibit B&A teams right now, they have to get that language changed (which it sounds like they are in teh process of doing right now and will have it completed in the next 6 months or so) and once that language is clenaed up both the Blades and WIngs will be good to go for B&A Tier 1 AAA play in the 2014-15 season and beyond.... maybe I misunderstood what I read but I don't think it's a residency rule thing I this instance either, just some other bylaw language

The rule will only be changed provisionaly for one year. Beyond that, nothing is guaranteed.

[puckbreath]

What I do not understand is why a Wisconsin man is so interested in starting Tier I hockey in Minnesota.

BINGO!

Double bingo.

[JSR]

What I do not understand is why a Wisconsin man is so interested in starting Tier I hockey in Minnesota.

BINGO!

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

[JSR]

My GUESS is that the MN Hockey residence rule has a lot to do with this. In order to play for AA at any age, the player would have to either live in the community where it is based, or go to school there.

This would explain the before and after Tier I requests being denied as well. All the players on the Blades for example would have to live in or go to school in the community where it is based.

Need some clarification here. To my knowledge AA is a school. Hence the residency rule is moot. It's basically a private school like Schattuck for the purposes of this scenario so I don't thinkt he residency rule applies here.

For the B&A teams, the way I read it was that MN Hockey some language in the bylaws that prohibit B&A teams right now, they have to get that language changed (which it sounds like they are in teh process of doing right now and will have it completed in the next 6 months or so) and once that language is clenaed up both the Blades and WIngs will be good to go for B&A Tier 1 AAA play in the 2014-15 season and beyond.... maybe I misunderstood what I read but I don't think it's a residency rule thing I this instance either, just some other bylaw language

The rule will only be changed provisionaly for one year. Beyond that, nothing is guaranteed.

Nope nothing is guaranteed, you are correct... However, I'm pretty sure you can't unring a bell.....

[puckbreath]

BINGO!

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

And yet, for someone who doesn't even live in the state, therefore making his "discussion" interests interesting to say the least, you continue to throw insults to those of us who do.

I'm a big believer in the more opinions on any subject, the better, so no, your not living in mn isn't the big deal.
You're not the only person on the board who doesn't live here.

Your hissy fits, pissing contests, and thrown insults with those that do live here, over T1 hockey in mn, a topic that affects you not at all either way, is.

You want to toss the troll word around, take a look in a mirror.

A bigger question may be; since the existence or not of such hockey in mn doesn't affect you, why are you "passionate" enough about the topic to throw insults ?

[InigoMontoya]

I think I'm inclined to leave my head in the sand. I think, at the heart of the matter, there are more parents that remember their own high school experiences fondly, not as the sole reason they were denied their dreams.

I also think that somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500 varsity boys will set their eyes on St Paul - taking 40 kids (not the top 40, though most in the top 10%) out of that system isn't going to kill it.

[OGEE OGELTHORPE]

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

And yet, for someone who doesn't even live in the state, therefore making his "discussion" interests interesting to say the least, you continue to throw insults to those of us who do.

I'm a big believer in the more opinions on any subject, the better, so no, your not living in mn isn't the big deal.
You're not the only person on the board who doesn't live here.

Your hissy fits, pissing contests, and thrown insults with those that do live here, over T1 hockey in mn, a topic that affects you not at all either way, is.

You want to toss the troll word around, take a look in a mirror.

A bigger question may be; since the existence or not of such hockey in mn doesn't affect you, why are you "passionate" enough about the topic to throw insults ?

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29724

[JSR]

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

And yet, for someone who doesn't even live in the state, therefore making his "discussion" interests interesting to say the least, you continue to throw insults to those of us who do.

I'm a big believer in the more opinions on any subject, the better, so no, your not living in mn isn't the big deal.
You're not the only person on the board who doesn't live here.

Your hissy fits, pissing contests, and thrown insults with those that do live here, over T1 hockey in mn, a topic that affects you not at all either way, is.

You want to toss the troll word around, take a look in a mirror.

A bigger question may be; since the existence or not of such hockey in mn doesn't affect you, why are you "passionate" enough about the topic to throw insults ?

The only insults I have ever thrown have been at those who've gone down that road first. Never have initiated it. :/

[Froggy Richards]

BINGO!

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

You Go Git Em Johnny, Go Git Em!!!!!!!!!

[JDUBBS1280]

Need some clarification here. To my knowledge AA is a school. Hence the residency rule is moot. It's basically a private school like Schattuck for the purposes of this scenario so I don't thinkt he residency rule applies here.

For the B&A teams, the way I read it was that MN Hockey some language in the bylaws that prohibit B&A teams right now, they have to get that language changed (which it sounds like they are in teh process of doing right now and will have it completed in the next 6 months or so) and once that language is clenaed up both the Blades and WIngs will be good to go for B&A Tier 1 AAA play in the 2014-15 season and beyond.... maybe I misunderstood what I read but I don't think it's a residency rule thing I this instance either, just some other bylaw language

The rule will only be changed provisionaly for one year. Beyond that, nothing is guaranteed.

Nope nothing is guaranteed, you are correct... However, I'm pretty sure you can't unring a bell.....

Good thing we aren't talking about ringing a bell

You clearly don't understand the situation as well as you think you do.

[JDUBBS1280]

Double bingo.

For the SECOND TIME, I find the topic and the discussion interesting. Nothing more nothing less. Elliot's question is inaccurate in the sense that I have neither the time, desire or resources to start anything other than a discussion. A bigger question is "Why do MN hockey parents who troll message boards think they know everything and think that no one outside their state knows anything about hockey?". Heaven forbid someone elses opinion might have some merit....

And yet, for someone who doesn't even live in the state, therefore making his "discussion" interests interesting to say the least, you continue to throw insults to those of us who do.

I'm a big believer in the more opinions on any subject, the better, so no, your not living in mn isn't the big deal.
You're not the only person on the board who doesn't live here.

Your hissy fits, pissing contests, and thrown insults with those that do live here, over T1 hockey in mn, a topic that affects you not at all either way, is.

You want to toss the troll word around, take a look in a mirror.

A bigger question may be; since the existence or not of such hockey in mn doesn't affect you, why are you "passionate" enough about the topic to throw insults ?

Brilliantly said!

[JSR]

The rule will only be changed provisionaly for one year. Beyond that, nothing is guaranteed.

Nope nothing is guaranteed, you are correct... However, I'm pretty sure you can't unring a bell.....

Good thing we aren't talking about ringing a bell

You clearly don't understand the situation as well as you think you do.

Really? Cuz I've been two to three months ahead of you and the rest on here of all this stuff happening... just sayin

[MWS coach]

ALL HAIL JSR!!!!

Why would anyone ever question him as he not only knows everything, but knows if first!!!

Give me a break.........

[JDUBBS1280]

Nope nothing is guaranteed, you are correct... However, I'm pretty sure you can't unring a bell.....

Good thing we aren't talking about ringing a bell

You clearly don't understand the situation as well as you think you do.

Really? Cuz I've been two to three months ahead of you and the rest on here of all this stuff happening... just sayin

I don't post here often, have no clue who you are, but find it amusing that you think you are so far out ahead of me and everyone else on this when you couldn't be more off base on the implications of/motivations behind MN Hockey's decision.

And for a guy who says the subject of T1 hockey in MN is just a passing interest, you seem awfully invested in this conversation.

Just sayin.

[Froggy Richards]

ALL HAIL JSR!!!!

Why would anyone ever question him as he not only knows everything, but knows if first!!!

Give me a break.........

Narcissistic personality disorder is one of a group of conditions called "Cluster B" or "dramatic" personality disorders. People with these disorders have intense, unstable emotions and a distorted self-image. Narcissistic personality disorder is further characterized by an abnormal love of self, an exaggerated sense of superiority and self-importance, and a preoccupation with success and power. However, these attitudes and behaviors do not reflect true self-confidence. Instead, the attitudes conceal a deep sense of insecurity and a fragile self-esteem. People with narcissistic personality disorders also often have a complete lack of empathy for others.

In many cases, people with narcissistic personality disorder:
• Are self-centered and boastful
• Seek constant attention and admiration
• Consider themselves better than others
• Exaggerate their talents and achievements
• Believe that they are entitled to special treatment
• Are easily hurt but may not show it
• Set unrealistic goals
• May take advantage of others to achieve their goals

Other common traits of narcissistic personality disorder include the following:

• Belief that he or she is "special" and unique, and can only be understood by other special people
• Expectation that others will automatically go along with what he or she wants
• Inability to recognize or identify with the feelings, needs, and viewpoints of others
• Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her
• Hypersensitivity to insults (real or imagined), criticism, or defeat, possibly reacting with rage, shame, and humiliation
• Arrogant behavior and/or attitude

The exact cause of narcissistic personality disorder is not known. However, many mental health professionals believe it results from a combination of factors that may include biological vulnerabilities, social interactions with early caregivers, and psychological factors that involve temperament and the ability to manage stresses. Some researchers believe that narcissistic personality disorder may be more likely to develop when children experience parenting styles that are excessively pampering, or when parents have a need for their children to be talented or special in order to maintain their own self-esteem. On the other end of the spectrum, narcissistic personality disorder might develop as the result of neglect or abuse and trauma inflicted by parents or other authority figures during childhood. The disorder usually is evident by adolescence or early adulthood when personality traits have become consolidated.

[karl(east)]

Looks like this one's gone sufficiently off-topic...