Just for the record

[JaginCake]

Redtundra you uphold the Minnesota model at the youth level only to throw it out when you get to high school? Why? Also, who is the High School tourney for, scouts or for the kids playing? Reality of hockey is you spend 8 to 10 thousand a year on a sport that like all others there is less than .1% chance that the kids will play pro. The funnel closes and it closes quickly. Somehow we are suppose to see that the times are a changing? They might be if people don't stop and think about what they are preaching. Minnesota population 5.5 million. rest of the US population 310 Million yet the MN model produces more or the same high level hockey players than the rest of the country combined? Based on results who should be changing us or them. If we go there way my 8 to 10K a year would go to 30 to 40K a year. I'm not "god's" gift to capitalism but I like spending less.

[JSR]

Redtundra you uphold the Minnesota model at the youth level only to throw it out when you get to high school? Why? Also, who is the High School tourney for, scouts or for the kids playing? Reality of hockey is you spend 8 to 10 thousand a year on a sport that like all others there is less than .1% chance that the kids will play pro. The funnel closes and it closes quickly. Somehow we are suppose to see that the times are a changing? They might be if people don't stop and think about what they are preaching. Minnesota population 5.5 million. rest of the US population 310 Million yet the MN model produces more or the same high level hockey players than the rest of the country combined? Based on results who should be changing us or them. If we go there way my 8 to 10K a year would go to 30 to 40K a year. I'm not "god's" gift to capitalism but I like spending less.

'

You are a little over the top in your figures. My son played Tier 1 AAA hockey in Illinois this year. One of the more expensive places to play hockey, especially Tier 1 and the total costs with travel, fees everything was in the $10k area, not 30 to 40k.... I do know one or two places where it gets that high (Cali mainly) but they are extreme outliers in their costs, even our off season stuff is maybe just an additional $3k tops, no where even remotely close to the astronomical figures you are reporting.... just sayin......

[MrBoDangles]

Redtundra you uphold the Minnesota model at the youth level only to throw it out when you get to high school? Why? Also, who is the High School tourney for, scouts or for the kids playing? Reality of hockey is you spend 8 to 10 thousand a year on a sport that like all others there is less than .1% chance that the kids will play pro. The funnel closes and it closes quickly. Somehow we are suppose to see that the times are a changing? They might be if people don't stop and think about what they are preaching. Minnesota population 5.5 million. rest of the US population 310 Million yet the MN model produces more or the same high level hockey players than the rest of the country combined? Based on results who should be changing us or them. If we go there way my 8 to 10K a year would go to 30 to 40K a year. I'm not "god's" gift to capitalism but I like spending less.

'

You are a little over the top in your figures. My son played Tier 1 AAA hockey in Illinois this year. One of the more expensive places to play hockey, especially Tier 1 and the total costs with travel, fees everything was in the $10k area, not 30 to 40k.... I do know one or two places where it gets that high (Cali mainly) but they are extreme outliers in their costs, even our off season stuff is maybe just an additional $3k tops, no where even remotely close to the astronomical figures you are reporting.... just sayin......

I figured he's talking 8g for his multiple players in the Minnesota model.

[JaginCake]

You are a little over the top in your figures. My son played Tier 1 AAA hockey in Illinois this year. One of the more expensive places to play hockey, especially Tier 1 and the total costs with travel, fees everything was in the $10k area, not 30 to 40k.... I do know one or two places where it gets that high (Cali mainly) but they are extreme outliers in their costs, even our off season stuff is maybe just an additional $3k tops, no where even remotely close to the astronomical figures you are reporting.... just sayin.....

.

the 8 to 10 is for a season of camps, clinics, regular season $3k for association, $400 for High School, and the individual training, (ness skating etc.) that only changed when he got to HS. In Association the longest seasons were about $3,000 including travel, food and hotel for tourneys, regions and state. the summer training was an additional $800 to $1200 depending on how many skill specific camps. outside of the camps and clinics, the coaches weren't coaching to make a mortgage payment.

[JSR]

You are a little over the top in your figures. My son played Tier 1 AAA hockey in Illinois this year. One of the more expensive places to play hockey, especially Tier 1 and the total costs with travel, fees everything was in the $10k area, not 30 to 40k.... I do know one or two places where it gets that high (Cali mainly) but they are extreme outliers in their costs, even our off season stuff is maybe just an additional $3k tops, no where even remotely close to the astronomical figures you are reporting.... just sayin.....

.

the 8 to 10 is for a season of camps, clinics, regular season $3k for association, $400 for High School, and the individual training, (ness skating etc.) that only changed when he got to HS. In Association the longest seasons were about $3,000 including travel, food and hotel for tourneys, regions and state. the summer training was an additional $800 to $1200 depending on how many skill specific camps. outside of the camps and clinics, the coaches weren't coaching to make a mortgage payment.

and the roughly $13k (give or take $1k) if you play Tier 1 in Chicago is also for a full winter season including tournaments, travel, hotels etc... as well as off season camps and clinics and tourneys... about $8k for winter fees but that includes EVERYTHING, then about $3k for travel, hotel food and gas, then about another $2k to $3k for camps, clinics, and other off season opportunities.... so probably about $14k is normal outside of MN, it's not as much of a difference as you think, with the exception of places like California as an example where fees and travel becomes much more expensive but midwest Tier 1 AAA isn't cheap but as not bad as you are reporting

[redtundra]

I think these are all viable points. Hockey is expensive. The more you train, play and travel, the more expensive it becomes. My thought is that there is no more "MN Model" anymore for the better player. Couldn't agree more that one's chance of making money in any sport, let alone hockey, is slim to none, and slim just left the building. But if we are going to talk about the kids who are in the upper levels of play - be it Bill Nyrop and Steve Christoff; or Derek Stepan and Kyle Okposo - the path has certainly changed. I think MN has done an outstanding job of trying to make changes while keeping the traditions in check. High School Elite League is of course at the top of the list. But old school MN Model would never include HS Elite. MN made some changes that helped keep the product a viable option. I really believe having options for each kid (Pure HS with Elite League; HS and USHL as a combined path; US Development; Canadian Junior; AAA (Shattuck mainly) combined with any of the above) is a good thing. I just hope the "MN Model" in the updated version can survive for the top players. FICA - my son and daughters are not in the discussion above! But here in Lakeville there are many top kids who have already taken many different paths.

[SCBlueLiner]

I think the point is that the MN model is the bulk part of the playing season, i.e. provides the base. From there players can supplement their training with the many different options available. The MN model also brings hockey to the masses and keeps costs in check for the most part. Allowing more players the opportunity to play makes the base of the pyramid large, by sheer numbers gets more talented athletes into the sport and gives them the opportunity to develop their talent.

I don't like what hockey is becoming in other parts of the country, and it's creeping closer and closer. A game for only those who can afford to pay for the highest levels. Having to ship your kids off to billet somewhere at a young age.

It says a lot for the Minnesota system when a kid from small towns like Grand Rapids or Warroad can grow up there play all the way through their senior year and go on to college or get drafted without having to leave home. Try that in another area of the country.

[defense]

There are AAA teams at all levels across the country. All that means, is that they are from a wide area and not association. My son played AAA mite. he played in Pee Wee Quebec. He played for the National Championship at Pee Wee. I am not sure they are even allowed to play A teams from MN without USA hockey approval? Most squirt A players in MN would be too old to play Squirts anywhere else. It wouldn't be fair to play a MN A team. If you play AAA in the Spring or summer you convert to USA hockey rules. That's when MN teams play their equals at Tourneys. Can't play in North American Silver Sticks or USA National Championships though. Every year USA hockey crowns National Champs. MN will never play for that. The oath American Silver Sticks is for the best US and Canadian teams. MN not allowed. A MN Squirt A team is equivalent to a USA or Canada AAA first year Pee Wee team. Pretty confident in this, since I coached AAA in multiple states at all levels. MN baseball doesn't play in Little League either. But, check it out and if you find something different let me know. like to keep an open mind:) Thanks

I love how some AAA dude brings this up every month. Yes, some of the kids on the MN teams are older, but they also have kids on the team that are YOUNGER than their AAA opponents. MN draws from small, local Associations while the AAA teams cherry pick from 5 million in a large Metro area. Nobody in MN complains, why do you?

You're correct, MN will never play for National Championships. If they wanted to they would, but they don't care. Nothing compares to MN Association based hockey. Even if you won't admit it, you know it. The MN State Tournament is the pinnacle of Hockey for those kids. After that, anything else would be a letdown. Do you really need Minnesota that bad to bring legitimacy to your National Championship? Just enjoy it, I'm sure it's a good experience for the kids.

This post has it right. I always thought it interesting that AAA teams played in our regular invitational tourneys against our local association based teams. It made me realize that, for crap sakes, they are coming here for competition. Our MN hockey leagues and associations are generally that good and most of is don't understand that. They come here to play us in order to play some good quality hockey, not to cherry pick trophies.