Machine Article

YouthHockeyHub · Post by **YouthHockeyHub** » Fri May 04, 2012 11:36 am

The first in a two part series on the Minnesota Machine and Minnesota Made Hockey. The second part will be an interview with Bernie coming soon. It's been a great project the last two months talking to former players, current players, parents, etc.

Enjoy,

TS

http://youthhockeyhub.com/the-minnesota ... -kool-aid/

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri May 04, 2012 11:48 am

Sak him why he has the 99 machine playing in an open tourny this weekend.[They are wearing green/called the Attack]

Deep Breath · Post by **Deep Breath** » Fri May 04, 2012 11:54 am

og85: Programs will have an age group play up a birthyear in an event or two during the season. Nothing new. 00s are playing at the 99 level and the 01 group is playing at the 00 level. A year ago in the International Cup, the 01 Blades played at the 00 level. Not that big of a deal, really.

observer · Post by **observer** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:05 pm

Not that big of a deal, really.

I don't like it. Not a big deal unless you're a true open level team coming to the tourney, without borrowing elite level players, hoping for a true open level experience and then the tourney organizer lets in this team of elite level players that kind wrecks the experience for the true open level teams. Plus the fact they're a year younger stings even more. The team "playing up" is considering what they want to do to develop their players without giving any thought to all the other teams, players, coaches and parents. Selfish move by the team playing up but I leave it up to the tourney organizer to just say no to these wheeler dealers. 1999 open level means 1999 open level.

Form a team, quit juggling the roster, figure out your level and play there.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:25 pm

Maybe it's not that big of a deal. Then why the green jerseys/fake name ???

Deep Breath · Post by **Deep Breath** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:51 pm

observer has it right. It's up to the tourney organizer. Individual teams are most likely simply trying to find tougher competition without having to make another out-of-state trip or relying on out state teams to come here. But also, teams that have a problem with the practice of other teams moving up to play in an event, can simply spend their money elsewhere the following year. In addition, the practice is nothing new. Head coaches or team managers can simply ask a tournament organizer if they allow younger teams to play up before the send in their check or provide a credit card number.

silentbutdeadly3139 · Post by **silentbutdeadly3139** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Deep Breath wrote:observer has it right. It's up to the tourney organizer. Individual teams are most likely simply trying to find tougher competition without having to make another out-of-state trip or relying on out state teams to come here. But also, teams that have a problem with the practice of other teams moving up to play in an event, can simply spend their money elsewhere the following year. In addition, the practice is nothing new. Head coaches or team managers can simply ask a tournament organizer if they allow younger teams to play up before the send in their check or provide a credit card number.

All excuses are good excuses ... but none of them are acceptable. Why can't the organization that run the team be ethical enough to police themselves rather than relying on the tournament organizer doing the detective work necessary to determine who the team and players are.

@hockeytweet · Post by **@hockeytweet** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:37 pm

The same topics emerge every summer. If it is summer hockey season, the world revolves around Bernie, the Machine, the Brick, and the Blades.

Youth Hockey Hub journalist, that article is darn near copyright infringment, stolen from the MM flyer/letter used to recruit parents for the Machine. I'm joking about plagiarism, but I still have a emailed copy from years ago. That Machine team has since disbanded.

OG85 has veered a little off topic, but obviously MM encourages the "play up" philosophy. Not everyone agrees with it. My son's team didn't split apart from that one reason. It was the cumulative effect of questionable player treatment, large egos, and kids tuning out.

The funny thing is, my son respects Bernie and think he is a great coach. But ask him if he misses it, (the whole MM thing), and his answer is a firm, "NO". Ask most from the 96 team, or from the 95s, 97s, 98s for that matter, and you'll likely hear the same response.

If you are an "elite" team like 00 Machine, and want to play up, do it in a lesser elite tournament, there are plenty around that need to fill a spot. Go in, take your lumps for the sake of development. But don't enter an OPEN level tournament. Show some class.

OG--The fake name is just used bolster egos, because it is not the Machine losing to "open level talent", it is the Attack. Plus, if you want to sell Orange Kool-Aid and keep the parent's NHL dreams alive, you can't have too many L's on the record.

Irish · Post by **Irish** » Sat May 05, 2012 1:06 am

Honest question. What is the logic behind bringing orange players to play for the Black team in tournaments?

mnhockey2019 · Post by **mnhockey2019** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:41 am

Irish wrote:Honest question. What is the logic behind bringing orange players to play for the Black team in tournaments?

Add to the trophy case at MM.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Sat May 05, 2012 7:33 am

Irish wrote:Honest question. What is the logic behind bringing orange players to play for the Black team in tournaments?

Depends on who you ask. The end result may be another trophy in the case, but that isn't necessarily the reason they do it. Besides, the last time I checked the place wasn't loaded with machine black trophies anyway.

This is nuts! · Post by **This is nuts!** » Sat May 05, 2012 7:46 am

HockeyDad41 wrote:
Irish wrote:Honest question. What is the logic behind bringing orange players to play for the Black team in tournaments?
Depends on who you ask. The end result may be another trophy in the case, but that isn't necessarily the reason they do it. Besides, the last time I checked the place wasn't loaded with machine black trophies anyway.

Then why?

icehornet · Post by **icehornet** » Sat May 05, 2012 2:38 pm

Maybe the black team has kids that can't make it or maybe they want to get a couple orange kids more tournament experience. Either way I'm guessing they aren't the only program that does this and not really sure why it would matter to anyone other than the people on those teams.

Good article but I wish it would be little longer and go more in depth with former players and their families.

This is nuts! · Post by **This is nuts!** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm

icehornet wrote:Maybe the black team has kids that can't make it or maybe they want to get a couple orange kids more tournament experience. Either way I'm guessing they aren't the only program that does this and not really sure why it would matter to anyone other than the people on those teams.

Good article but I wish it would be little longer and go more in depth with former players and their families.

I wouldnt' hold your breath. I m sure Bernie only agreed to this with the conditon that he approves everything that goes to print. So I would only expect to see blah blah blah, fluff. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

I looking forward to the interview (part 2) I would expect it to be like a Tiger Woods interview where you never get an answer to a question

silentbutdeadly3139 · Sun May 06, 2012 10:18 pm

icehornet wrote:Maybe the black team has kids that can't make it or maybe they want to get a couple orange kids more tournament experience. Either way I'm guessing they aren't the only program that does this and not really sure why it would matter to anyone other than the people on those teams.

Good article but I wish it would be little longer and go more in depth with former players and their families.

Yeah those kids they bring don't have tournament experience

they don't bring in the newbies or inexperienced. It does matter others that have payed for the experience of playing in an open tournament with like skilled teams.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:07 pm

The last time Minnesota had first round draft choices(3) was in 2010

15 Derek Forbert, Duluth East
19 Nick Bjugstad, Blaine
30 Brock Nelson, Warroad

Did Bernie travel to train them?

Thanks for taking Minnesota Hockey out of the "Dark Ages".

I would BET that the correllation of more draft choices has come with Minnesota kids skating more hours(Summer competition)........ Any takers?

Bernie simply had a solid group of 88's. And the repeat?

KOOL - AID!!!!!!!!!

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Mon May 07, 2012 7:44 am

MrBoDangles wrote:The last time Minnesota had first round draft choices(3) was in 2010

15 Derek Forbert, Duluth East
19 Nick Bjugstad, Blaine
30 Brock Nelson, Warroad

Did Bernie travel to train them?

Thanks for taking Minnesota Hockey out of the "Dark Ages".

I would BET that the correllation of more draft choices has come with Minnesota kids skating more hours(Summer competition)........ Any takers?

Bernie simply had a solid group of 88's. And the repeat?
KOOL - AID!!!!!!!!!

His '96 team may be the best team yet....the '95's weren't too bad, although I don't believe he had them together as long as he did the '96 team.

@hockeytweet · Post by **@hockeytweet** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:44 am

Muck, you are correct. Those 95/96 era teams were loaded. And then they "imploaded" for lots of reasons.

The problem is it is a different era. In less than 10 years the expectations of the parents have already exceeded what Bernie can promise.

Imagine 15-18 sets of parents, each with their own egos and dreams of athletic scholarship, barking at you about playing time. Each Dad convinced that his son would like nothing better than to log 130 hours of ice this summer.

Any wagers on how long the 99/00/01 teams last? I bet after this season, you'll see a few 99's jump ship to either the Icemen or Blades. The grass is always greener...

scoreandscoreoften · Post by **scoreandscoreoften** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:07 pm

There already have been 99's, 00's, and 01's leave the orange, for whatever reason. The parents will say they left, the orange will say they were no longer in their plans. But for the most part the core has stayed together.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:56 pm

muckandgrind wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:The last time Minnesota had first round draft choices(3) was in 2010

15 Derek Forbert, Duluth East
19 Nick Bjugstad, Blaine
30 Brock Nelson, Warroad

Did Bernie travel to train them?

Thanks for taking Minnesota Hockey out of the "Dark Ages".

I would BET that the correllation of more draft choices has come with Minnesota kids skating more hours(Summer competition)........ Any takers?

Bernie simply had a solid group of 88's. And the repeat?
KOOL - AID!!!!!!!!!
His '96 team may be the best team yet....the '95's weren't too bad, although I don't believe he had them together as long as he did the '96 team.

They were GREAT players when he teamed them up together. We could all probably figure out (gather) a team of very talented eleven year olds right now where most will probably end up D-1 and a some will get drafted. You just need to lure them together and claim you "made" them. Good business plan.....

I would be a kool - aid drinker IF he took a bunch of average Joes and turned them in to NHL players. Not the case.

This is nuts! · Post by **This is nuts!** » Mon May 07, 2012 5:12 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:The last time Minnesota had first round draft choices(3) was in 2010

15 Derek Forbert, Duluth East
19 Nick Bjugstad, Blaine
30 Brock Nelson, Warroad

Did Bernie travel to train them?

Thanks for taking Minnesota Hockey out of the "Dark Ages".

I would BET that the correllation of more draft choices has come with Minnesota kids skating more hours(Summer competition)........ Any takers?

Bernie simply had a solid group of 88's. And the repeat?
KOOL - AID!!!!!!!!!
His '96 team may be the best team yet....the '95's weren't too bad, although I don't believe he had them together as long as he did the '96 team.
They were GREAT players when he teamed them up together. We could all probably figure out (gather) a team of very talented eleven year olds right now where most will probably end up D-1 and a some will get drafted. You just need to lure them together and claim you "made" them. Good business plan.....

I would be a kool - aid drinker IF he took a bunch of average Joes and turned them in to NHL players. Not the case.

YES! My point exactly. You could have took those kids, dropped a puck in the middle of the ice and let them play and you would have looked like Herb Brooks.

Good players are good no matter who coaches them.

Mnhockeys · Post by **Mnhockeys** » Mon May 07, 2012 9:29 pm

I am sure those visiting this topics are not short of many current or formal machine parents. One thing surprises me or I missed so far is that no machine parent made a claim here saying his future D1 or NHL'er got better at the MADE.

Hockey is one of those team sports that your better teammates would make your game look better. Agree?

icehornet · Post by **icehornet** » Mon May 07, 2012 10:25 pm

Always interesting reading the posts from people who hate on MM or Bernie. I don't have a vested interest either way but because he built a successful (private) business and gave kids/parents another option he gets a lot of heat for it. There seem to be plenty of people lining up to pay the "overpriced" fees they charge. They must be doing something right to attract a lot of talented kids.

Isn't it common sense that practicing with top end talent (or kids that are better) will ultimately raise a kids level of play? Yeah a kid might look better playing with good teammates but I can guarantee the kid is getting better by getting ice time and practicing with those top level kids as well. As for the "good players are going to be good no matter who the coach is"....sure, but those good players can either become great or start to lose ground because of coaching too.

Mnhockeys · Post by **Mnhockeys** » Mon May 07, 2012 11:05 pm

icehornet wrote:Always interesting reading the posts from people who hate on MM or Bernie. I don't have a vested interest either way but because he built a successful (private) business and gave kids/parents another option he gets a lot of heat for it. There seem to be plenty of people lining up to pay the "overpriced" fees they charge. They must be doing something right to attract a lot of talented kids.

Isn't it common sense that practicing with top end talent (or kids that are better) will ultimately raise a kids level of play? Yeah a kid might look better playing with good teammates but I can guarantee the kid is getting better by getting ice time and practicing with those top level kids as well. As for the "good players are going to be good no matter who the coach is"....sure, but those good players can either become great or start to lose ground because of coaching too.

Ok, now I heard it ... guaranteed!

icehornet · Post by **icehornet** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:58 am

Can you argue otherwise? How is it possible for a kid (or anyone for that matter) regularly playing/practicing with other highly skilled players to not improve?