Hey, how 'bout doze Gophers

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:38 am

I think people are getting a little carried away about the football team.

They are down this year. They lost a lot of guys to graduation, the NFL and academics.

The hockey team knocked the OSU around prety good. The football team cant do the same thing because we dont have the local talent.

Mason needs to do a better job but whats all the hysteria. This happened with all the coaches that preceded Mason and will happen with all that follow.

Its just that when the Gophers are down, its real down.

I dont like Mason but whats going to change if we get somebody else?

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:00 am

I would've fired Mason several years ago. At that point, it would've been because he seemed too pleased with mediocrity and this program needs a coach that wants to go to the Rose Bowl. Do you realize it has been 45 years since a Gopher football team has been to Pasadena? That's the longest streak of any Big Ten program.

He's had a few nice wins, Michigan last year, Ohio State two or three years ago, but every year his teams lose a game that they had in the bag. Once or even twice I can accept but after awhile it becomes a pattern with the constant being the coaching staff. And from what I've heard, he has not done a good job of networking with the Minnesota high school coaches which you have to do to have a shot at the in-state kids.

What would a new coach do? It seems pretty clear to me that Mason has burned his bridges here and a new coach would bring some life back into the program. If Northwestern, Iowa and Wisconsin can put together winning programs, there's no reason it can't be done here but they need to find the right guy, a talented, hungry coach. And I don't see Joel Maturi coming up with someone like that unfortunately.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:34 am

You are just as vague as everybody else I talk to on this issue.

"Bring some life back into the prgram" What the Boof does that mean?

When was the last time the program had any life?

Who are you going to get to come here?

I think Mason could do better with the Minn players but would that turn the program?

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:37 pm

gophers football if boofin awful

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:09 pm

Things have gotten so negative with Mason that a cardboard cutout of Vince Lombardi would be better. He's managed to tick off the fans that he needs most, the student section, by suggesting they're a bunch of drunks. He may have a point, but he needs those drunks on his side. He's lost the fan support, how long is it before he loses the players.

A new coach would have a honeymoon period of a year or two to get things going. Look at the Vikings, the difference between the Tice-coached teams and this year's team, a good coach won't need that long to change the climate and start attracting talented players to come here. There's no way this program can compete year to year with Michigan or Ohio State, but they should be able to put together teams every three years or so that can challenge for the title.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:23 pm

And so it goes ChrisK.
You could take your last post and cut it out and use it for Wramath, Stoll, Gute, Smokin Joe, and Mr Geezo Beezo himself.

It would not apply to the Music Man because he split for ND before it got that way.

Maybe it has been a series of bad hires. But all of the above coaches went thru exactly what Mason is going thru.

The next guy will too.

But maybe you are right and the people before you have been right for the last 45 years.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:59 pm

Here's how you breathe life back into gopher football. Win at home, win on the road, win in the conference. Elevate your program to the point where you are scheduling and beating a Cal, Missouri, Texas Tech, Georgia Tech, or K. State in the pre-conference season.

How do you win?
1)Hire someone that can change a culture.
2)Hire someone who can push a University to go beyond what it is comfortable with.

Mason did what he was hired to do. He got a program that was just awful and bowless from the late 80's to the late 90's to point where it could beat Arkanasas, Alabama, or Oregon in mid level bowl game. Mason got the program to a point where MIN could actually see other big ten schools in their rearview mirror. Mason did it at Kansas and he did here as well. However, he has taken them as far as he is going to.

The U showed they were comfortable when they brought him back after last year. Minnesota doesn't want to contend because they don't want to do what it takes.

If WI, IA & PUR can occassionally challenge for a conference title, there is absolutely no reason that Minnesota can't with the right guy driving the bus and with a school willing to put the gas in the tank. Have you been to West Lafeyette? It is like a flatter Duluth, except smaller. If you can get recruits to go there, Mpls. isn't a hard sale.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:15 pm

Have you been to the U of M lately?

Anything but a hard sell. The place is first class all the way from top to bottom.

One problem. If all you care about is playing football, it doesnt beat Purdue.

How can you pick Iowa City or any city in Iowa over the U? Madison over Mpls? No way unless all you care about is playing football.

If it was about Mpls/St Paul and what this area has to offer, it would be one Rose Bowl after another. Its not.

As far as the U doing what it takes, I dont know what that means. How many scandals have we had to endure?

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:08 pm

What does the U have to do? Take a risk. Keep looking for that FB coach that can get it done. It's clear to me the U is OK with not being the worst, rather, than wanting to be the best once in a while.

Look at ND. Safe route would have been to keep Tyrone. He had enough success to warrant keeping his post. But the people in charge, whoever they are, want them to be the best and they're not going to stop until they get back there. If you think its about ND's $, nope, money has nothing to do with wanting excellence.

Where are all the ND people (Dick Vital) now who supported Ty when he got "unfairly" gassed? I know, still sitting in the front row behind the visitor's bench and trumpeting the brilliance of their university's 4th choice.

Great coaching is about one's ability to unlock a player's/program's/community's desire to be excellent. The U hasn't found him yet and unfortunately they have quit looking for him for now.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:22 pm

Thats hard to argue with.

My budddy says the same thing. Fire Mason and hire someone else. If he doesnt work out, fire him and so on until we get 'the man'.

What attributes does 'the man ' have to have that Mason and his predecessors dont or didnt?

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:07 pm

Mason has done a nice job getting this program back to a point where they can annually get to a bowl game, and he got them there pretty quickly.

However, it's painfully clear that this program has reached a plateau. We can win anywhere from 3-5 games in the Big 10 and get to a late December bowl game, but that's about it. To keep Mason would be to accept mediocrity, and that is something that Joel Maturi has fallen in love with.

Mason has had the personnel to compete for a Big 10 title, but has lost the big games when they matter most. I hope we bring in a new coach with the new stadium to energize the community about this team's prospects. It's clear Mason is not going to get us anywhere close to a Big 10 title contender, so why not gamble and make a switch rather than stay content with .500 seasons?

EREmpireStrikesBack · Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:55 pm

Stadium will help a lot in bringing in better recruits. As far as coaches go, I think that continuity goes a long way. Guys don't want to committ and then in their 2nd year, they have a new coach who might not want them to be there as their coach. Knowing that the coach that recruits them is going to be around the whole time they are there is a big deal as well. I don't think we can just get rid of coaches like boblee does girlfriends.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:36 am

packerboy wrote:
What attributes does 'the man ' have to have that Mason and his predecessors dont or didnt?

1) Someone who has won before. There are guys at the Div I AA, Div II, or Div III level that have the ability to unlock that excellence. I believe the qualities that work in the lower divisions can work at the Div I level. Schools that hire retreads like Ron Zook, Jerry DiNardo, John L Smith, or Dave Wandstadt are asking for another disaster. As much as I hate to, I applaud WI for hiring a Beau Ryan. His success at Div III Platteville translated right to Div I. When Ryan was hired, Majeres was the big name being thrown around, Ryan was risky but he was the right answer for the right reasons.

2) Someone with a gameplan that is outside conventional Big Ten Thinking (3 yds and a cloud of dust). Mich and OSU will do this and succeed at it forever because they can out recruit everyone else. PUR made a great hire in Tiller. He came into the big ten from Wyoming, sent four guys wide and threw the ball until the cows came home. Brees became a Heisman candidate and PUR was giving Mich and OSU fits. Mason and his Big 10 philosophy has yet to figure out how to stop Tiller or NW when Walker copied Purdue's system.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:32 pm

Well IS, we tried kicking on third down, the run and shoot, the veer T, the option and whatever it was that Wacker ran.

Offense hasnt been the problem. One of the games Blue Breeze is talking about is the Mich game when we blew a 20+ point lead.

Lack of D has been the problem.

As far a bringing out the excellence in players, what about Barber, Maroney, Eslinger etc etc.

Mason has taken lower recruits and coached them up.

I think he can coach.

Where he might not be the best is recruiting. Get someone in here who can sell the U. Its an easy sell. Its a great place to go to school. Will this get us a lot of Gary Russells? No but maybe we can do better.

Nobody is going to be able to get players in here who are only intersted in 6 Saturdays out of the year. It isnt that kind of place. Its got way more to it than that. That has to be sold as a positive instead of a negative.

So, when someone form Iowa says "dont go to MN, all they care about are the Vikings." We have to say" Hey, on Sundays we can go to the Viking games"

The place has to be sold for what it is and I dont like it when Mason constantly uses the good stuff we have here as an excuse for kids not wanting to come.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:33 pm

Defense. Bingo. For the better part of ten years I have seen some decent teams on sat and sun in this state be unable to get the defensive stop when they needed it. Scoring, not been a problem. Scoring more than giving up to quality teams, problem. The Vikes maybe have turned the corner. If Mason can turn the corner with his squad, he can nestle right into the middle of the pack once again.

Mason has done a lot of good for the U. The Wacker and Gutenkunst administrations were dreadful. Barber, Maroney, and the O line of the last three seasons were tremendous finds and were well coached during their stay at the U. The game where the Gophs blew the fourth quarter lead to Michigan, one could argue that the offense was too good. Maroney busting a 70yd TD was one of the worst things to happen in that fateful fourth quarter. A nice time consuming 8 min drive would have been more important than quick points.

I haven't been a Mason basher and I won't become one even as this season continues to unfold. This year was going to be rough going in. The graduations and departures of the boys discussed above can't be replaced in one season. But the D must.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:29 am

1. Mason has boofed off the MN high school coaches. His condenscending attitude towards them hurts local recruiting immensly. If we can't keep our local talent, we're relegated to recruiting the left overs from the rest.

2. The Metrodome sucks. I've been to an Ohio State home game, there is absolutely no way we are going to compete for top athletes with programs that can create that environment.

A new stadium will help, but we need to keep the local talent more.

Give Mason an extension.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:17 am

I think Mason has an attitude that is not real productive to keeping the MN player.

But I also think that attitude is born out of a frustration with MN players going elsewhere.

I say hire a recruiter.

Is Mason at the high school games? If I were him Id be camped out on Friday nights in Wayzata, EP, Lakeville, CDH, etc etc.

Get somebody who will get in the face of the MN players and sell the U and convince them to be part of a Renasaince. Go on a Crusade.

Wait a minute ....Crusade......I think I could do it.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:01 am

Mason only recruits MN kids AFTER he finds out someone else is recruiting them. This was a big discussion on KFAN Sunday morning.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:07 am

I missed it.

I was listening to Sid and Dave. I like the more objective analysis provided by Sid.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:44 am

I'm pretty sure I read that Mason was in the stands of one of the big high school games last week but it takes more than just showing up for the games to recruit kids. As I said earlier, I have heard that he has not done a good job of networking the Minnesota high school coaches and that's a big part of recruiting. Those coaches can steer you to kids that have talent but get overlooked and can even help sell your program.

I disagree with packerboy that the U is an easy sell. The lack of success, the cold weather are things that opposing recruiters can and will use against the U. I like it here, but to a kid in Texas or Florida Minnesota can hold about as much charm as Alaska.

Mason reminds me a lot of Denny Green, overselling his accomplishments and not taking blame for things that go wrong. There are better coaches out there, Maturi needs to find one and get him in here.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:24 am

I'm a little lost on how Mason's condescending attitude towards MN HS coaches hurts his ability to get players.

If I'm Coach X and my thunderthighed HB is being recruited by Mason, I don't know how my dislike of him would affect his chances of getting Thunderthighs. Is Thunderthighs really going to go to St. Johns, Hamline, NDSU, N. Iowa, or USC because I told him to. I've worked with enough HS athletes to see that the college of choice is made by the player and or his parents almost exclusively.

And secondly, any coach who has a player capable of competing in college should be marketed by that coach, regardless of the coaches personal feelings. In state colleges are those athletes' best shot and if they're not taking advantage of that for their athlete, they are doing them an injustice.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:51 am

Now you sound like Mason ChrisK.

Every area has its +s and -s. If the weather is such a negative, we better keep the dome.

The negative that I hear hurts the U the most is that its not the only show in town like it is almost everywhere else. What else is there to do in Iowa City? West Layfayette? Have you ever been to Indiana?

But you have to be able to turn that into a positive. I know a lot of people with kids at the U. They love it. They can walk to downtown MPLS. Take the light rail out to the Mall etc etc. Catch a Twins game, Vikings, TWolves.

You cant do that in Madison.

I am familiar with the college choice process having lived it myself and with 2 kids. They need a lot of guidance. IS is right, its usually a family decision. A good recruiter should be able to sell the U becausethe college experience is about way more than 6 Saturdays.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:06 pm

mason is a poor coach

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:16 pm

Sunday morning while returning from Montana with Neutron 15, I was searching the radio for anything non-christian. Not that I couldn't use a little saving but lets be real. While in Glendive MT, Lo and behold I stumble into the FAN being piped out of Bismark.

Most of the show was about Mason and recruiting. Callers included (purportedly) HS coaches. I didn't hear anyone support Mason.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:21 pm

Neither did Nick Coleman in the Trib today.