Question

[oldschoolpuckster]

The Moratorium did not pass. This means the door is open to allow Tier 1 in MN. My understanding is that MN Hockey is set to rule on the matter sometime this week. There are three organizations trying to become Tier 1, NE/Achiever, Blades and a program out of Duluth.

[elliott70]

So, how'd the vote go??? Anyone know???

Vote is Wednesday night for MH.
I think two of the three will pass. The third one will be close.

[JSR]

If the Association kids spend the time on the ice that the Tier 1 kids spend riding across the country in the Suburban, they should come out ahead!

Sorry Froggy but you are describing the AAA experience of 15 years ago. Listen I get that Minneaplois metro area has tons of amazing hockey and that most do not need to do a Tier 1 team to get good hockey and good training but the reality is the rest of the hockey world, including out state MN, has to travel to play games. Even assoication hockey has several hours of travel each weekend to play their regular games for most areas outside the metro area. Practices for most kids are near by even for Tier 1. Games might not be in the metro area but the reality is for the majority of the rest of the world the travel isn't that much different and does not add up to any more or less time on the pond or at the rink or in the basement shooting etc... etc... My sons get just as much, if not more, ice time and instruction playing Tier 1 than they ever did oplaying association hockey. yes it's a bit more expensive and there are give or take two additional weekends where we have to travel a bit farther than the norm for games (Like say Detroit) but overall it's not at all what you describe or think it is. We've been doig it for 3 years now, and again for the majority of us who do not live in metro Minneapolis to find coaches who know what they are doing and teams that can compete at a high level it's necessary... do I think MN "needs' Tier 1 AAA hockey, no I do not, but considering this is America it does baffle on why so many are insistant on not allowing your citizens the freedom of choice in this regard. It really is mind boggling, if we tried to monoplize anything else the way MN Hockey monopolizes association hockey you'd be screaming bloody murder, but because it's hockey it's ok, that just doesn't make sense to me.....

The "this is America argument doesn't apply. When you "choose" to join an organization, you "choose" to be governed by their rules. Name any organization for me that when you choose to join, you are free to make your own rules? Surely you have a voice in those rules (unless of course you are a member of a neighboring affiliate), but no valid organization can adhere to the "this is America" position that you can make your own rules on the basis of the freedoms we are guaranteed as Americans.

You are right except that the overall organization in this case does allow for this, it's just one of it's suborganizations keeps trying to make it's own rules and to be the tail that wags the dog, so in this case the argument applies.....

[JSR]

Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA".

But wouldn't MN Hockey have control over the number they sanction? IL only has 4 Tier 1 teams. To my knowledge they will not sanction anymore. Whether or not that is true, MNH could limit it to a handful of teams which really would not affect association hockey but give those clamoring, their option to spend big $ to travel around to play. Not necessarily for us, but not bad to have a choice and really does not have to be allowed to destroy the community based associations.

Wisconsin does the same thing. It has rules in it's bylaws governing the number of Tier 1 organizations it can have within the state too. That is why we only have three and it's also why the Fire no longer exist....


On that note, I think it's sort of funny. For anyone who knows the 'real" story of the Fire they know that MN Hockey basically bullied WAHA into getting rid of the Fire. The funny part is if MN Hockey would have encouraged WAHA to allow the Fire to become a full blown, sanctioned Tier 1 organization it would have been Wisconsin based, it owould have only been 1 program and it probably would have kept the wolves at bay and Tier 1 out of MN for ALOT longer, maybe not forever but because they bullied the Fire out of business they've been facing lawsuits that they lose and pressure from within and now the flood gates are about to open. Ironic if you ask me...

[SECoach]

Sorry Froggy but you are describing the AAA experience of 15 years ago. Listen I get that Minneaplois metro area has tons of amazing hockey and that most do not need to do a Tier 1 team to get good hockey and good training but the reality is the rest of the hockey world, including out state MN, has to travel to play games. Even assoication hockey has several hours of travel each weekend to play their regular games for most areas outside the metro area. Practices for most kids are near by even for Tier 1. Games might not be in the metro area but the reality is for the majority of the rest of the world the travel isn't that much different and does not add up to any more or less time on the pond or at the rink or in the basement shooting etc... etc... My sons get just as much, if not more, ice time and instruction playing Tier 1 than they ever did oplaying association hockey. yes it's a bit more expensive and there are give or take two additional weekends where we have to travel a bit farther than the norm for games (Like say Detroit) but overall it's not at all what you describe or think it is. We've been doig it for 3 years now, and again for the majority of us who do not live in metro Minneapolis to find coaches who know what they are doing and teams that can compete at a high level it's necessary... do I think MN "needs' Tier 1 AAA hockey, no I do not, but considering this is America it does baffle on why so many are insistant on not allowing your citizens the freedom of choice in this regard. It really is mind boggling, if we tried to monoplize anything else the way MN Hockey monopolizes association hockey you'd be screaming bloody murder, but because it's hockey it's ok, that just doesn't make sense to me.....

The "this is America argument doesn't apply. When you "choose" to join an organization, you "choose" to be governed by their rules. Name any organization for me that when you choose to join, you are free to make your own rules? Surely you have a voice in those rules (unless of course you are a member of a neighboring affiliate), but no valid organization can adhere to the "this is America" position that you can make your own rules on the basis of the freedoms we are guaranteed as Americans.

You are right except that the overall organization in this case does allow for this, it's just one of it's suborganizations keeps trying to make it's own rules and to be the tail that wags the dog, so in this case the argument applies.....

Minnesota Hockey is an independent, non-profit corporation associated with USA Hockey by way of an affiliate agreement. Within that affiliate agreement Minnesota Hockey agrees to abide by the applicable rules of affiliate grantor, USA Hockey. Minnesota Hockey has it's own by-laws and rules, which are determined by the elected representatives of Minnesota Hockey.

[SECoach]

Their interest will be purely ego and financial driven, but there will be lots of them. A few teams will lead to many, just as pretty much all summer teams are called "AAA".

But wouldn't MN Hockey have control over the number they sanction? IL only has 4 Tier 1 teams. To my knowledge they will not sanction anymore. Whether or not that is true, MNH could limit it to a handful of teams which really would not affect association hockey but give those clamoring, their option to spend big $ to travel around to play. Not necessarily for us, but not bad to have a choice and really does not have to be allowed to destroy the community based associations.

Wisconsin does the same thing. It has rules in it's bylaws governing the number of Tier 1 organizations it can have within the state too. That is why we only have three and it's also why the Fire no longer exist....


On that note, I think it's sort of funny. For anyone who knows the 'real" story of the Fire they know that MN Hockey basically bullied WAHA into getting rid of the Fire. The funny part is if MN Hockey would have encouraged WAHA to allow the Fire to become a full blown, sanctioned Tier 1 organization it would have been Wisconsin based, it owould have only been 1 program and it probably would have kept the wolves at bay and Tier 1 out of MN for ALOT longer, maybe not forever but because they bullied the Fire out of business they've been facing lawsuits that they lose and pressure from within and now the flood gates are about to open. Ironic if you ask me...

From one that knows the "real" story of the Wisconsin Fire, I disagree with your opinion.

[elliott70]

But wouldn't MN Hockey have control over the number they sanction? IL only has 4 Tier 1 teams. To my knowledge they will not sanction anymore. Whether or not that is true, MNH could limit it to a handful of teams which really would not affect association hockey but give those clamoring, their option to spend big $ to travel around to play. Not necessarily for us, but not bad to have a choice and really does not have to be allowed to destroy the community based associations.

Wisconsin does the same thing. It has rules in it's bylaws governing the number of Tier 1 organizations it can have within the state too. That is why we only have three and it's also why the Fire no longer exist....


On that note, I think it's sort of funny. For anyone who knows the 'real" story of the Fire they know that MN Hockey basically bullied WAHA into getting rid of the Fire. The funny part is if MN Hockey would have encouraged WAHA to allow the Fire to become a full blown, sanctioned Tier 1 organization it would have been Wisconsin based, it owould have only been 1 program and it probably would have kept the wolves at bay and Tier 1 out of MN for ALOT longer, maybe not forever but because they bullied the Fire out of business they've been facing lawsuits that they lose and pressure from within and now the flood gates are about to open. Ironic if you ask me...

From one that knows the "real" story of the Wisconsin Fire, I disagree with your opinion.

I also disagree.

[JSR]

But wouldn't MN Hockey have control over the number they sanction? IL only has 4 Tier 1 teams. To my knowledge they will not sanction anymore. Whether or not that is true, MNH could limit it to a handful of teams which really would not affect association hockey but give those clamoring, their option to spend big $ to travel around to play. Not necessarily for us, but not bad to have a choice and really does not have to be allowed to destroy the community based associations.

Wisconsin does the same thing. It has rules in it's bylaws governing the number of Tier 1 organizations it can have within the state too. That is why we only have three and it's also why the Fire no longer exist....


On that note, I think it's sort of funny. For anyone who knows the 'real" story of the Fire they know that MN Hockey basically bullied WAHA into getting rid of the Fire. The funny part is if MN Hockey would have encouraged WAHA to allow the Fire to become a full blown, sanctioned Tier 1 organization it would have been Wisconsin based, it owould have only been 1 program and it probably would have kept the wolves at bay and Tier 1 out of MN for ALOT longer, maybe not forever but because they bullied the Fire out of business they've been facing lawsuits that they lose and pressure from within and now the flood gates are about to open. Ironic if you ask me...

From one that knows the "real" story of the Wisconsin Fire, I disagree with your opinion.

It's just an opinion, maybe it would've happened anyway maybe not. Either way what's done is done and it's here knocking on the door step now....

[elliott70]

Wisconsin does the same thing. It has rules in it's bylaws governing the number of Tier 1 organizations it can have within the state too. That is why we only have three and it's also why the Fire no longer exist....


On that note, I think it's sort of funny. For anyone who knows the 'real" story of the Fire they know that MN Hockey basically bullied WAHA into getting rid of the Fire. The funny part is if MN Hockey would have encouraged WAHA to allow the Fire to become a full blown, sanctioned Tier 1 organization it would have been Wisconsin based, it owould have only been 1 program and it probably would have kept the wolves at bay and Tier 1 out of MN for ALOT longer, maybe not forever but because they bullied the Fire out of business they've been facing lawsuits that they lose and pressure from within and now the flood gates are about to open. Ironic if you ask me...

From one that knows the "real" story of the Wisconsin Fire, I disagree with your opinion.

It's just an opinion, maybe it would've happened anyway maybe not. Either way what's done is done and it's here knocking on the door step now....

Well, it is not here now and it has been knocking on the door for a long-time. MH board has had it on the agenda for many years. They move slow but they move slow for a reason.

[Froggy Richards]

So, how'd the vote go??? Anyone know???

Vote is Wednesday night for MH.
I think two of the three will pass. The third one will be close.

Elliot,

Has there been any discussion of Younger levels or is it only the U18 that is on the table? And are the Northern Wings actually proposing to open a School or just trying to get Tier 1 Status? Thanks.

[elliott70]

So, how'd the vote go??? Anyone know???

Vote is Wednesday night for MH.
I think two of the three will pass. The third one will be close.

Elliot,

Has there been any discussion of Younger levels or is it only the U18 that is on the table? And are the Northern Wings actually proposing to open a School or just trying to get Tier 1 Status? Thanks.

The current vote it's on 3 different proposals from 3 separate organizations. One contains a provision for bantam age.

The proposal does not (if I am recalling correctly) say anything about a school being started by the wings.

[elliott70]

U18 and u16

[Froggy Richards]

Vote is Wednesday night for MH.
I think two of the three will pass. The third one will be close.

Elliot,

Has there been any discussion of Younger levels or is it only the U18 that is on the table? And are the Northern Wings actually proposing to open a School or just trying to get Tier 1 Status? Thanks.

The current vote it's on 3 different proposals from 3 separate organizations. One contains a provision for bantam age.

The proposal does not (if I am recalling correctly) say anything about a school being started by the wings.

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that the chatter about younger levels was false. A couple of U18 teams wouldn't be the end of the world. And if the Blades want to do a before and after then more power to them. Would be nice to keep the door shut on anything younger than U18 though.

[JSR]

Elliot,

Has there been any discussion of Younger levels or is it only the U18 that is on the table? And are the Northern Wings actually proposing to open a School or just trying to get Tier 1 Status? Thanks.

The current vote it's on 3 different proposals from 3 separate organizations. One contains a provision for bantam age.

The proposal does not (if I am recalling correctly) say anything about a school being started by the wings.

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that the chatter about younger levels was false. A couple of U18 teams wouldn't be the end of the world. And if the Blades want to do a before and after then more power to them. Would be nice to keep the door shut on anything younger than U18 though.

It wasn't false froggy, it may not have ended up going where the director of that Tier 1 club wanted it to go but it wasn't chatter and it wasn't false, it was first hand knowledge direct from a particular Tier 1 club