Is your son an elite player?

[Trash Hauler]

Trash, here's a video I was involved in making a few years back. That's me doing the commentary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7mkuVavgQ

Who wudda thunk we were on the same page the whole time....?

That's a classic film! I'm the one shaking my head the whole time. The subject line could sum everything up.

A short video showing the correct and incorrect behavior patterns of parents involved in minor hockey. Cheesy acting from 1992, but the message still resonates the same even 15 years later.

[Trash Hauler]

Trash- What do you do? Are you a sociologist? Social worker? Of course their are crazies in the stands. Ever been to a youth baseball game? Youth football game? It's just the way it is. People can come up with white papers, studies and all sorts of stats...but people are still going to be yelling, having unrealistic expectations with their kids and not acting with logic or reason. I don't say a or make any noise. They can't hear you or they shouldn't be able to hear you. Maybe an occasional yell of "move your feet" is ok. I've seen for 30 years all sorts of crazy, but most people are fine. But their is a sizable minority of stupid people in this country. It is what it is. On a bad day, you could say 80% of the population is brain-dead. Ever been on 494? My point, why all this arm-chair analysis for a very easy topic to read and analyze? Not everyone is a genteel, logical person. In fact, most people are the opposite. Pugnacious, rude, narrow-minded, myopic and they base everything off their own experiences, instead of being able to put themselves in the shoes of others to see different points of view.

The elite minds and bodies of yesteryear were all "pushed" at a young age. Da Vinci, Mozart, FDR, JFK, Lemieux, Babe Ruth, MJ, Monet, John Tavares...etc. etc. if you find a kid with "elite" talent in any endevour...they should get the most outta that talent as possible.

Like Bobby DeNiro said in "A Bronx Tale"...."The worst thing in life son, is wasted talent".

Yes, there are crazies in the stands of all youth athletic events. As I said, I have been to hundreds and hundreds of youth events, with my focus being on parent behavior. My observation is that it is not a rare occurance. Let's make it a rivalry game, or even better, a C Pee Wee "playoff game", a 14U girls playoff game. I go as an innocent by stander. I watch CROWDS of parents act like idiots....let me think of a more clinical word......misbehave. Red faces, screaming, thinking and believing they have a better view of the blue line from the corner than the linesman standing on it, and then losing their mind over an offside call.

I can't go along with "it is the way it is". I believe that it is unacceptable and that we can slowly but surely effect change. If you have seen one 12 year old child told by a parent that they do not deserve a ride home because they didn't put out a good effort, it should cause you to get involved. It's heartbreaking. I have seen and heard similar statements too many times. I don't mean to claim ultimate knowledge, but I do claim to have focused my observations on it for longer than I care to admit. To a fault, I go to youth games and watch parents and coaches, while others watch the game. I have witnessed not a couple, but many parents approach a game official after a game, and not to get a rule interpretation but to act out on their emotions from a youth hockey or baseketball game. Often the official is a child themselves. Look folks, it may not be you, but it's high time we stopped ignoring what whe know is going on.

Regarding your comment on some of the most gifted people the world has ever known, I would simply replace the word "pushed", with the word "guided". When "guiding" a gifted child, their age needs to be taken into account. I simply believe that the "push" is too much, too soon. Really? Was Babe Ruth "pushed" at an early age? Was Monet "pushed" to paint? Can you really push an artist? I'm not sure, and can't dispute that, but I will dig in on the research.

[JSR]

Trash- What do you do? Are you a sociologist? Social worker? Of course their are crazies in the stands. Ever been to a youth baseball game? Youth football game? It's just the way it is. People can come up with white papers, studies and all sorts of stats...but people are still going to be yelling, having unrealistic expectations with their kids and not acting with logic or reason. I don't say a or make any noise. They can't hear you or they shouldn't be able to hear you. Maybe an occasional yell of "move your feet" is ok. I've seen for 30 years all sorts of crazy, but most people are fine. But their is a sizable minority of stupid people in this country. It is what it is. On a bad day, you could say 80% of the population is brain-dead. Ever been on 494? My point, why all this arm-chair analysis for a very easy topic to read and analyze? Not everyone is a genteel, logical person. In fact, most people are the opposite. Pugnacious, rude, narrow-minded, myopic and they base everything off their own experiences, instead of being able to put themselves in the shoes of others to see different points of view.

The elite minds and bodies of yesteryear were all "pushed" at a young age. Da Vinci, Mozart, FDR, JFK, Lemieux, Babe Ruth, MJ, Monet, John Tavares...etc. etc. if you find a kid with "elite" talent in any endevour...they should get the most outta that talent as possible.

Like Bobby DeNiro said in "A Bronx Tale"...."The worst thing in life son, is wasted talent".

Yes, there are crazies in the stands of all youth athletic events. As I said, I have been to hundreds and hundreds of youth events, with my focus being on parent behavior. My observation is that it is not a rare occurance. Let's make it a rivalry game, or even better, a C Pee Wee "playoff game", a 14U girls playoff game. I go as an innocent by stander. I watch CROWDS of parents act like idiots....let me think of a more clinical word......misbehave. Red faces, screaming, thinking and believing they have a better view of the blue line from the corner than the linesman standing on it, and then losing their mind over an offside call.

I can't go along with "it is the way it is". I believe that it is unacceptable and that we can slowly but surely effect change. If you have seen one 12 year old child told by a parent that they do not deserve a ride home because they didn't put out a good effort, it should cause you to get involved. It's heartbreaking. I have seen and heard similar statements too many times. I don't mean to claim ultimate knowledge, but I do claim to have focused my observations on it for longer than I care to admit. To a fault, I go to youth games and watch parents and coaches, while others watch the game. I have witnessed not a couple, but many parents approach a game official after a game, and not to get a rule interpretation but to act out on their emotions from a youth hockey or baseketball game. Often the official is a child themselves. Look folks, it may not be you, but it's high time we stopped ignoring what whe know is going on.

Regarding your comment on some of the most gifted people the world has ever known, I would simply replace the word "pushed", with the word "guided". When "guiding" a gifted child, their age needs to be taken into account. I simply believe that the "push" is too much, too soon. Really? Was Babe Ruth "pushed" at an early age? Was Monet "pushed" to paint? Can you really push an artist? I'm not sure, and can't dispute that, but I will dig in on the research.

Actually TH, many of the people he listed were "pushed" and not guided back then. Read some of the books on these historic figures and you'll see they were beaten or worse in an effort to "guide" their talents. Literally beaten to keep them working on their "craft" (ever read about Beethoven or Mozarts upbringings... or JFK's... yikes is what you'll be saying...). Now obviously that is sick, wrong and unacceptable but yes many of the ones he listed were "pushed" not guided.

[Trash Hauler]

Trash- What do you do? Are you a sociologist? Social worker? Of course their are crazies in the stands. Ever been to a youth baseball game? Youth football game? It's just the way it is. People can come up with white papers, studies and all sorts of stats...but people are still going to be yelling, having unrealistic expectations with their kids and not acting with logic or reason. I don't say a or make any noise. They can't hear you or they shouldn't be able to hear you. Maybe an occasional yell of "move your feet" is ok. I've seen for 30 years all sorts of crazy, but most people are fine. But their is a sizable minority of stupid people in this country. It is what it is. On a bad day, you could say 80% of the population is brain-dead. Ever been on 494? My point, why all this arm-chair analysis for a very easy topic to read and analyze? Not everyone is a genteel, logical person. In fact, most people are the opposite. Pugnacious, rude, narrow-minded, myopic and they base everything off their own experiences, instead of being able to put themselves in the shoes of others to see different points of view.

The elite minds and bodies of yesteryear were all "pushed" at a young age. Da Vinci, Mozart, FDR, JFK, Lemieux, Babe Ruth, MJ, Monet, John Tavares...etc. etc. if you find a kid with "elite" talent in any endevour...they should get the most outta that talent as possible.

Like Bobby DeNiro said in "A Bronx Tale"...."The worst thing in life son, is wasted talent".

Yes, there are crazies in the stands of all youth athletic events. As I said, I have been to hundreds and hundreds of youth events, with my focus being on parent behavior. My observation is that it is not a rare occurance. Let's make it a rivalry game, or even better, a C Pee Wee "playoff game", a 14U girls playoff game. I go as an innocent by stander. I watch CROWDS of parents act like idiots....let me think of a more clinical word......misbehave. Red faces, screaming, thinking and believing they have a better view of the blue line from the corner than the linesman standing on it, and then losing their mind over an offside call.

I can't go along with "it is the way it is". I believe that it is unacceptable and that we can slowly but surely effect change. If you have seen one 12 year old child told by a parent that they do not deserve a ride home because they didn't put out a good effort, it should cause you to get involved. It's heartbreaking. I have seen and heard similar statements too many times. I don't mean to claim ultimate knowledge, but I do claim to have focused my observations on it for longer than I care to admit. To a fault, I go to youth games and watch parents and coaches, while others watch the game. I have witnessed not a couple, but many parents approach a game official after a game, and not to get a rule interpretation but to act out on their emotions from a youth hockey or baseketball game. Often the official is a child themselves. Look folks, it may not be you, but it's high time we stopped ignoring what whe know is going on.

Regarding your comment on some of the most gifted people the world has ever known, I would simply replace the word "pushed", with the word "guided". When "guiding" a gifted child, their age needs to be taken into account. I simply believe that the "push" is too much, too soon. Really? Was Babe Ruth "pushed" at an early age? Was Monet "pushed" to paint? Can you really push an artist? I'm not sure, and can't dispute that, but I will dig in on the research.

Actually TH, many of the people he listed were "pushed" and not guided back then. Read some of the books on these historic figures and you'll see they were beaten or worse in an effort to "guide" their talents. Literally beaten to keep them working on their "craft" (ever read about Beethoven or Mozarts upbringings... or JFK's... yikes is what you'll be saying...). Now obviously that is sick, wrong and unacceptable but yes many of the ones he listed were "pushed" not guided.

Well now I've got a dilemma. For two of my kids, it's too late, they got away with no beatings. But with the other two, should I get out the leather strap I inherited from my father, or "guide" the younger two? Wouldn't it be crazy to find out that Beethoven got his ears slapped back so much it made him deaf, and that the beatings were reasponsible for his greatness? Seriously, it would be interesting to know whether their gifts were created in the womb or from their upbringing or both. Would they have excelled simply because they had it in them or would they have failed to reach their potential without the beatings and other strong influences. The question has always facinated me.

I've worked with a kid that is a phenomenal athlete, and a very gifted student. This, now 18 year old kid, was brought up with incredible pressure to be a peak performer. Never beaten, etc, but always told great job, but you can do better. To most observers, he was loved and cherished by his parents. This kid has experienced huge success on the field and in the classroom. The problem is he, lacks self confidence and is constantly searching for approval of others, no matter how well he perfoms. This is likely due to the fact that he felt he was never good enough in his parents eyes, and always needed to be better, even though he has always been at or near the top of his peers. What you are left with is a really nice kid, excelling in many areas, but very unhappy. Again, is this every kid? Surely not, but the issues are so very deep that they are diffucult to mend. It's just something to think about. "Great job today", and leaving it at that, with no buts following the compliment, is a good strategy particularly and especially when the kid is young.

[O-townClown]

Bo, I enjoyed the video. However, it isn't just parental behavior that hasn't changed in 20 years, it's the mindset that the coach knows everything and has no accountability.

What if you don't agree with the coach?

What if the coach makes a point to avoid explanations to parents so they can understand his methods?

What if a coach's old-school mentality flies in the face of accepted standards as defined by USA Hockey's CEP, the American Development Model, and other literature on youth sports and childhood development?

[JSR]

Yes, there are crazies in the stands of all youth athletic events. As I said, I have been to hundreds and hundreds of youth events, with my focus being on parent behavior. My observation is that it is not a rare occurance. Let's make it a rivalry game, or even better, a C Pee Wee "playoff game", a 14U girls playoff game. I go as an innocent by stander. I watch CROWDS of parents act like idiots....let me think of a more clinical word......misbehave. Red faces, screaming, thinking and believing they have a better view of the blue line from the corner than the linesman standing on it, and then losing their mind over an offside call.

I can't go along with "it is the way it is". I believe that it is unacceptable and that we can slowly but surely effect change. If you have seen one 12 year old child told by a parent that they do not deserve a ride home because they didn't put out a good effort, it should cause you to get involved. It's heartbreaking. I have seen and heard similar statements too many times. I don't mean to claim ultimate knowledge, but I do claim to have focused my observations on it for longer than I care to admit. To a fault, I go to youth games and watch parents and coaches, while others watch the game. I have witnessed not a couple, but many parents approach a game official after a game, and not to get a rule interpretation but to act out on their emotions from a youth hockey or baseketball game. Often the official is a child themselves. Look folks, it may not be you, but it's high time we stopped ignoring what whe know is going on.

Regarding your comment on some of the most gifted people the world has ever known, I would simply replace the word "pushed", with the word "guided". When "guiding" a gifted child, their age needs to be taken into account. I simply believe that the "push" is too much, too soon. Really? Was Babe Ruth "pushed" at an early age? Was Monet "pushed" to paint? Can you really push an artist? I'm not sure, and can't dispute that, but I will dig in on the research.

Actually TH, many of the people he listed were "pushed" and not guided back then. Read some of the books on these historic figures and you'll see they were beaten or worse in an effort to "guide" their talents. Literally beaten to keep them working on their "craft" (ever read about Beethoven or Mozarts upbringings... or JFK's... yikes is what you'll be saying...). Now obviously that is sick, wrong and unacceptable but yes many of the ones he listed were "pushed" not guided.

Well now I've got a dilemma. For two of my kids, it's too late, they got away with no beatings. But with the other two, should I get out the leather strap I inherited from my father, or "guide" the younger two? Wouldn't it be crazy to find out that Beethoven got his ears slapped back so much it made him deaf, and that the beatings were reasponsible for his greatness? Seriously, it would be interesting to know whether their gifts were created in the womb or from their upbringing or both. Would they have excelled simply because they had it in them or would they have failed to reach their potential without the beatings and other strong influences. The question has always facinated me.

I've worked with a kid that is a phenomenal athlete, and a very gifted student. This, now 18 year old kid, was brought up with incredible pressure to be a peak performer. Never beaten, etc, but always told great job, but you can do better. To most observers, he was loved and cherished by his parents. This kid has experienced huge success on the field and in the classroom. The problem is he, lacks self confidence and is constantly searching for approval of others, no matter how well he perfoms. This is likely due to the fact that he felt he was never good enough in his parents eyes, and always needed to be better, even though he has always been at or near the top of his peers. What you are left with is a really nice kid, excelling in many areas, but very unhappy. Again, is this every kid? Surely not, but the issues are so very deep that they are diffucult to mend. It's just something to think about. "Great job today", and leaving it at that, with no buts following the compliment, is a good strategy particularly and especially when the kid is young.

I basically agree with the premise that parents should offer encouragement and coaches should offer the "buts", "advice" and "coaching". A kid needs to be told by someone where he can improve or he won;t improve and again that is where a good coach should come into play. However, have you solved the cunundrum of when dad is the coach..... and dad is a great coach and has been to hundreds of kids who were not his own kids but now suddenly he is coach to his own son. Solve that puzzle on how dad only offers encouragement without the "buts"....

[intothezone]

TH- I like the story about the kid that never thinks he's good enough, but I have perspective from the other side.

I am 35, growing up I played basketball. Both my parents always told me how great I was, how good of a job I was doing, that I was a super star, and how great it was that I was so tall. I occasionally received a correction from the coaches. At the age of 13, I showed up to the first practice of junior high basketball. At that moment I realized how horrible of a basketball player I really was. I was devastated, all those year's in elementary I thought I truly was a super star. Come to find out... compared to the other kids my age, I was not that great of a ball player. I never played basketball again (and my parents never encouraged me to stick with it). Had my parents given me a few constructive comments, maybe I would have tried harder. That is just my personality.

My point is this, just because one 18 year old has deep wounds for life, doesn't mean there is not another end to the spectrum. I think about it all the time...what if. What if my parents would have just been honest with me. Maybe I would have went into that practice with realistic expectations, and not have folded under the embarrassment. I became a lot more athletic once I stopped growing, maybe I would have been a pretty good palyer. Maybe. I will never know as that was a lost opportunity in my life.

What is good for one child is not good for another. Plain and simple. As parents, we will never know if we did the right thing until our children are grown. I for one have a "therapy" fund for my kids, and I consider myself a pretty good parent. Living in this society all of our kids will need it. If you think you are a better parent then the rest of us, you are fooling yourself.

[Trash Hauler]

TH- I like the story about the kid that never thinks he's good enough, but I have perspective from the other side.

I am 35, growing up I played basketball. Both my parents always told me how great I was, how good of a job I was doing, that I was a super star, and how great it was that I was so tall. I occasionally received a correction from the coaches. At the age of 13, I showed up to the first practice of junior high basketball. At that moment I realized how horrible of a basketball player I really was. I was devastated, all those year's in elementary I thought I truly was a super star. Come to find out... compared to the other kids my age, I was not that great of a ball player. I never played basketball again (and my parents never encouraged me to stick with it). Had my parents given me a few constructive comments, maybe I would have tried harder. That is just my personality.

My point is this, just because one 18 year old has deep wounds for life, doesn't mean there is not another end to the spectrum. I think about it all the time...what if. What if my parents would have just been honest with me. Maybe I would have went into that practice with realistic expectations, and not have folded under the embarrassment. I became a lot more athletic once I stopped growing, maybe I would have been a pretty good palyer. Maybe. I will never know as that was a lost opportunity in my life.

What is good for one child is not good for another. Plain and simple. As parents, we will never know if we did the right thing until our children are grown. I for one have a "therapy" fund for my kids, and I consider myself a pretty good parent. Living in this society all of our kids will need it. If you think you are a better parent then the rest of us, you are fooling yourself.

Once again I am simply stating that labeling a young child as "elite" brings some concerns. I'm not sure how that comes across as me thinking I'm a better parent.

I do spend my days working with adolecent kids, most of them athletes and the parents of those kids. You are probably better than me at whatever it is you do on a regular basis. I will assume we are both parents all day long so I'm not making any claims of my superiority in that regard, not making claims of superiority in any regard really, just stating and supporting my opinions.

I attended a youth baseball game last night, as a neutral observer. One team's parents AND grandparents, many, not all, spent the game complaining that the coaches can't get these 10 year olds to have committment and dedication to training. This is the reason they are getting their butts kicked at AAA. No considertion was given that they may just have AA talent. Hard work and dedication would surely make them a competitive AAA team. For one frustrated parent, it lead to a confrontaion with a coach. Very few of them enjoyed being at the game, and it was a beautiful night. I still don't believe these are isolated incidents. I see and hear it at every single event I attend.

[JSR]

TH- I like the story about the kid that never thinks he's good enough, but I have perspective from the other side.

I am 35, growing up I played basketball. Both my parents always told me how great I was, how good of a job I was doing, that I was a super star, and how great it was that I was so tall. I occasionally received a correction from the coaches. At the age of 13, I showed up to the first practice of junior high basketball. At that moment I realized how horrible of a basketball player I really was. I was devastated, all those year's in elementary I thought I truly was a super star. Come to find out... compared to the other kids my age, I was not that great of a ball player. I never played basketball again (and my parents never encouraged me to stick with it). Had my parents given me a few constructive comments, maybe I would have tried harder. That is just my personality.

My point is this, just because one 18 year old has deep wounds for life, doesn't mean there is not another end to the spectrum. I think about it all the time...what if. What if my parents would have just been honest with me. Maybe I would have went into that practice with realistic expectations, and not have folded under the embarrassment. I became a lot more athletic once I stopped growing, maybe I would have been a pretty good palyer. Maybe. I will never know as that was a lost opportunity in my life.

What is good for one child is not good for another. Plain and simple. As parents, we will never know if we did the right thing until our children are grown. I for one have a "therapy" fund for my kids, and I consider myself a pretty good parent. Living in this society all of our kids will need it. If you think you are a better parent then the rest of us, you are fooling yourself.

Once again I am simply stating that labeling a young child as "elite" brings some concerns. I'm not sure how that comes across as me thinking I'm a better parent.

I do spend my days working with adolecent kids, most of them athletes and the parents of those kids. You are probably better than me at whatever it is you do on a regular basis. I will assume we are both parents all day long so I'm not making any claims of my superiority in that regard, not making claims of superiority in any regard really, just stating and supporting my opinions.

I attended a youth baseball game last night, as a neutral observer. One team's parents AND grandparents, many, not all, spent the game complaining that the coaches can't get these 10 year olds to have committment and dedication to training. This is the reason they are getting their butts kicked at AAA. No considertion was given that they may just have AA talent. Hard work and dedication would surely make them a competitive AAA team. For one frustrated parent, it lead to a confrontaion with a coach. Very few of them enjoyed being at the game, and it was a beautiful night. I still don't believe these are isolated incidents. I see and hear it at every single event I attend.

Things happeneing with frequency amongst one or a few parents (even if at every game) still does not mean it's a problem with a majority of parents. That is still a minority

[Mnhockeys]

TH- I like the story about the kid that never thinks he's good enough, but I have perspective from the other side.

I am 35, growing up I played basketball. Both my parents always told me how great I was, how good of a job I was doing, that I was a super star, and how great it was that I was so tall. I occasionally received a correction from the coaches. At the age of 13, I showed up to the first practice of junior high basketball. At that moment I realized how horrible of a basketball player I really was. I was devastated, all those year's in elementary I thought I truly was a super star. Come to find out... compared to the other kids my age, I was not that great of a ball player. I never played basketball again (and my parents never encouraged me to stick with it). Had my parents given me a few constructive comments, maybe I would have tried harder. That is just my personality.

My point is this, just because one 18 year old has deep wounds for life, doesn't mean there is not another end to the spectrum. I think about it all the time...what if. What if my parents would have just been honest with me. Maybe I would have went into that practice with realistic expectations, and not have folded under the embarrassment. I became a lot more athletic once I stopped growing, maybe I would have been a pretty good palyer. Maybe. I will never know as that was a lost opportunity in my life.

What is good for one child is not good for another. Plain and simple. As parents, we will never know if we did the right thing until our children are grown. I for one have a "therapy" fund for my kids, and I consider myself a pretty good parent. Living in this society all of our kids will need it. If you think you are a better parent then the rest of us, you are fooling yourself.

Once again I am simply stating that labeling a young child as "elite" brings some concerns. I'm not sure how that comes across as me thinking I'm a better parent.

I do spend my days working with adolecent kids, most of them athletes and the parents of those kids. You are probably better than me at whatever it is you do on a regular basis. I will assume we are both parents all day long so I'm not making any claims of my superiority in that regard, not making claims of superiority in any regard really, just stating and supporting my opinions.

I attended a youth baseball game last night, as a neutral observer. One team's parents AND grandparents, many, not all, spent the game complaining that the coaches can't get these 10 year olds to have committment and dedication to training. This is the reason they are getting their butts kicked at AAA. No considertion was given that they may just have AA talent. Hard work and dedication would surely make them a competitive AAA team. For one frustrated parent, it lead to a confrontaion with a coach. Very few of them enjoyed being at the game, and it was a beautiful night. I still don't believe these are isolated incidents. I see and hear it at every single event I attend.

Last night was a lousy night at my kid's baseball game, standing in the rain with no cover. Lousy game too!!!

[Trash Hauler]

TH- I like the story about the kid that never thinks he's good enough, but I have perspective from the other side.

I am 35, growing up I played basketball. Both my parents always told me how great I was, how good of a job I was doing, that I was a super star, and how great it was that I was so tall. I occasionally received a correction from the coaches. At the age of 13, I showed up to the first practice of junior high basketball. At that moment I realized how horrible of a basketball player I really was. I was devastated, all those year's in elementary I thought I truly was a super star. Come to find out... compared to the other kids my age, I was not that great of a ball player. I never played basketball again (and my parents never encouraged me to stick with it). Had my parents given me a few constructive comments, maybe I would have tried harder. That is just my personality.

My point is this, just because one 18 year old has deep wounds for life, doesn't mean there is not another end to the spectrum. I think about it all the time...what if. What if my parents would have just been honest with me. Maybe I would have went into that practice with realistic expectations, and not have folded under the embarrassment. I became a lot more athletic once I stopped growing, maybe I would have been a pretty good palyer. Maybe. I will never know as that was a lost opportunity in my life.

What is good for one child is not good for another. Plain and simple. As parents, we will never know if we did the right thing until our children are grown. I for one have a "therapy" fund for my kids, and I consider myself a pretty good parent. Living in this society all of our kids will need it. If you think you are a better parent then the rest of us, you are fooling yourself.

Once again I am simply stating that labeling a young child as "elite" brings some concerns. I'm not sure how that comes across as me thinking I'm a better parent.

I do spend my days working with adolecent kids, most of them athletes and the parents of those kids. You are probably better than me at whatever it is you do on a regular basis. I will assume we are both parents all day long so I'm not making any claims of my superiority in that regard, not making claims of superiority in any regard really, just stating and supporting my opinions.

I attended a youth baseball game last night, as a neutral observer. One team's parents AND grandparents, many, not all, spent the game complaining that the coaches can't get these 10 year olds to have committment and dedication to training. This is the reason they are getting their butts kicked at AAA. No considertion was given that they may just have AA talent. Hard work and dedication would surely make them a competitive AAA team. For one frustrated parent, it lead to a confrontaion with a coach. Very few of them enjoyed being at the game, and it was a beautiful night. I still don't believe these are isolated incidents. I see and hear it at every single event I attend.

Things happeneing with frequency amongst one or a few parents (even if at every game) still does not mean it's a problem with a majority of parents. That is still a minority

I rarely watch the same parents or same group for that matter, and it's most often a majority of those present. That is a majority, but does it really need to be a majority for it to matter and have attention called to it?

Try it sometime. Plant yourself in the middle of a bunch of parents that don't know you. Right in the middle. Sit with people you don't know. Pull up a lawn chair right with the visiting team's parents for example. It will feel awkward at first, but it's very inlightening. It works best if you don't have a jacket on that says you are with the home team.

[JSR]

Once again I am simply stating that labeling a young child as "elite" brings some concerns. I'm not sure how that comes across as me thinking I'm a better parent.

I do spend my days working with adolecent kids, most of them athletes and the parents of those kids. You are probably better than me at whatever it is you do on a regular basis. I will assume we are both parents all day long so I'm not making any claims of my superiority in that regard, not making claims of superiority in any regard really, just stating and supporting my opinions.

I attended a youth baseball game last night, as a neutral observer. One team's parents AND grandparents, many, not all, spent the game complaining that the coaches can't get these 10 year olds to have committment and dedication to training. This is the reason they are getting their butts kicked at AAA. No considertion was given that they may just have AA talent. Hard work and dedication would surely make them a competitive AAA team. For one frustrated parent, it lead to a confrontaion with a coach. Very few of them enjoyed being at the game, and it was a beautiful night. I still don't believe these are isolated incidents. I see and hear it at every single event I attend.

Things happeneing with frequency amongst one or a few parents (even if at every game) still does not mean it's a problem with a majority of parents. That is still a minority

I rarely watch the same parents or same group for that matter, and it's most often a majority of those present. That is a majority, but does it really need to be a majority for it to matter and have attention called to it?

Try it sometime. Plant yourself in the middle of a bunch of parents that don't know you. Right in the middle. Sit with people you don't know. Pull up a lawn chair right with the visiting team's parents for example. It will feel awkward at first, but it's very inlightening. It works best if you don't have a jacket on that says you are with the home team.

I've been a neutral observer at hundreds of games. As a coach I love to just go watch games. So I've doen what you've done plenty of times and i just think you've become a bit oversensitive based on commentary here and I totally disagree that it's a majority of parents. I think it's a small minority but they tend to be very vocal and some parents just placate that minority beuase it's not worth it to them to confront or do anything else about it. As for your other question, does it need attention called to it. Incidents that actually need attention called to them do that just fine on their own. The rest is freedom of speech and thought and to each their own is my opinion.

[intothezone]

Maybe the coach is that bad. I do not know, I am just saying. All too often the parents get blamed for childlike behavior. I have seen situations where coaches have pigeon holed mites into one position for their own childs gain, laugh when one of their player's get hurt because that kid is faster than their own, try to manipulate situations for their own gain, and cheat to win. I have also seen adult refs blantantly make calls in favor of one team, as they are calling all the kids on the favored team by name. Before we can point our fingers at just the parents, maybe we should see where the behavior may be stemming from. It is great to observe, but that is all you are doing is observing. In observation, there is no back ground information to jump to any conclusions. Yes, there will always be parents behaving badly in the stands, but what about the coaches behavior at practice, or the refs behavior at a prior game. All these things play a roll. So for as many bad parents ruining a childs life, there are just as many coaches and refs doing the same thing. There are always two sides in every situation.

[O-townClown]

Trash, regarding the baseball story...

It is possible that for some of these families baseball is what they do. The boy loves it and the parents believe support and encouragement in the activity will provide long-term benefits for their child will learn valuable life lessons through participating.

I'm tired of being told by program directors and coaches that the hockey programs in our area are fine, the kids are really doing well, and that this environment is great for everyone. The only way they can say that is to settle for a ridiculously low standard.

Isn't one of the reasons to participate in organized youth sports to get an appreciation for the correlation between hard work and success, whether individual or team? After all, that is a valuable belief. Most adult successes are a result of hard work rather than sheer talent.

I've actually had my son's hockey director tell me that travel hockey isn't supposed to be fun, for the kids should have fun off the ice at the pool or eating with teammates. If we're not going to make it fun and we're not going to strive for excellence, what is it other than a money grab?

I suspect there are a lot more forces at work than you realize when you watch these games. As a parent, it's my job to make sure my son is enjoying the journey. That may involve expecting something from those that have chosen to make youth sports their profession.

[Trash Hauler]

I've got no problem pointing fingers at any adult acting this way. Coaches and refs included. I do think we are all responsible for our own behavior, and a bad referee or coach is no excuse for ones own child like behavior. I've seen a referee ruin a good hockey game, but never seen one ruin a life.

[Trash Hauler]

Trash, regarding the baseball story...

It is possible that for some of these families baseball is what they do. The boy loves it and the parents believe support and encouragement in the activity will provide long-term benefits for their child will learn valuable life lessons through participating.

I'm tired of being told by program directors and coaches that the hockey programs in our area are fine, the kids are really doing well, and that this environment is great for everyone. The only way they can say that is to settle for a ridiculously low standard.

Isn't one of the reasons to participate in organized youth sports to get an appreciation for the correlation between hard work and success, whether individual or team? After all, that is a valuable belief. Most adult successes are a result of hard work rather than sheer talent.

I've actually had my son's hockey director tell me that travel hockey isn't supposed to be fun, for the kids should have fun off the ice at the pool or eating with teammates. If we're not going to make it fun and we're not going to strive for excellence, what is it other than a money grab?

I suspect there are a lot more forces at work than you realize when you watch these games. As a parent, it's my job to make sure my son is enjoying the journey. That may involve expecting something from those that have chosen to make youth sports their profession.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sorry if I implied that everything should be expected of the parents, and nothing from the other adults involved. Parents should certainly expect a certain degree of competence, dedication, communication, and mentoring from any coach. It certainly doesn't always happen. I guess at the baseball game, you would have had to be there. Grandma screaming at the coach with a red face and spit coming out wasn't very pretty. I hope she's doing better today. Was the coach she was screaming at a bad coach? I don't know, but either way I didn't think she handled it properly. In this case, the coach calmly listened to her and clapped his hands and coached the game. I thought he handled it very well. There is certainly too many bad coaches bad coaches. I guess my point is that the adults are adults, and the children are children. We should probably expect both to act like it.

You don't mention what age your child is so it's hard for me to gauge how absurd his coach's statement is. If you son is 8, I think it's outrageous. If you son is 18, it's a bit more understandable, but fun should be a part of any sport regardless of the player age or talent level. If he is 18 and playing with a National team, he would certainly have an obligation to be committed and driven, but should still be having fun.

By the way, went to a baseball game tonight, great coaches, great umpire, great fans. Fun, entertaining game. It happens

[edgeless2]

I've got no problem pointing fingers at any adult acting this way. Coaches and refs included. I do think we are all responsible for our own behavior, and a bad referee or coach is no excuse for ones own child like behavior. I've seen a referee ruin a good hockey game, but never seen one ruin a life.

Trash- you have made some very valid points. That and 5 dollars will get you a coffee at starbucks. Climb down off the soapbox, or start confronting this behavior in person at one of the hundreds of events that you attend each year (kinda creepy). I think your point has validity, but you are not going to start a grassroots effort on this bored. But you seem to have a decent business plan, Psychological help for over zealous parents, probably advertising in the wrong place though.

[Trash Hauler]

I've got no problem pointing fingers at any adult acting this way. Coaches and refs included. I do think we are all responsible for our own behavior, and a bad referee or coach is no excuse for ones own child like behavior. I've seen a referee ruin a good hockey game, but never seen one ruin a life.

Trash- you have made some very valid points. That and 5 dollars will get you a coffee at starbucks. Climb down off the soapbox, or start confronting this behavior in person at one of the hundreds of events that you attend each year (kinda creepy). I think your point has validity, but you are not going to start a grassroots effort on this bored. But you seem to have a decent bu Wsiness plan, Psychological help for over zealous parents, probably advertising in the wrong place though.

Edge......every chance I get, I introduce myself to someone I see having a hard time at a youth or high school sporting event and we talk for a bit. When I see a coach mistreating kids, I speak with them after the game. When I see a coach being positive and displaying good sportsmanship, I introduce myself and let them know I think they did a nice job. Every appropriate chance I get, I get invovled. I may have sidled up to a few people on this board and gently tapped them on the shoulder. I may have had a meeting after a game with a few coaches on this board. I willingly contact administrators and let them know when there are issues. Join me won't you? No, I didn't speak with the red faced, spitting grandma at the baseball game. Tough crowd

[edgeless2]

I've got no problem pointing fingers at any adult acting this way. Coaches and refs included. I do think we are all responsible for our own behavior, and a bad referee or coach is no excuse for ones own child like behavior. I've seen a referee ruin a good hockey game, but never seen one ruin a life.

Trash- you have made some very valid points. That and 5 dollars will get you a coffee at starbucks. Climb down off the soapbox, or start confronting this behavior in person at one of the hundreds of events that you attend each year (kinda creepy). I think your point has validity, but you are not going to start a grassroots effort on this bored. But you seem to have a decent bu Wsiness plan, Psychological help for over zealous parents, probably advertising in the wrong place though.

Edge......every chance I get, I introduce myself to someone I see having a hard time at a youth or high school sporting event and we talk for a bit. When I see a coach mistreating kids, I speak with them after the game. When I see a coach being positive and displaying good sportsmanship, I introduce myself and let them know I think they did a nice job. Every appropriate chance I get, I get invovled. I may have sidled up to a few people on this board and gently tapped them on the shoulder. I may have had a meeting after a game with a few coaches on this board. I willingly contact administrators and let them know when there are issues. Join me won't you? No, I didn't speak with the red faced, spitting grandma at the baseball game. Tough crowd

You've got stamina I'll give you that. I'm in.

[DrGaf]

I've got no problem pointing fingers at any adult acting this way. Coaches and refs included. I do think we are all responsible for our own behavior, and a bad referee or coach is no excuse for ones own child like behavior. I've seen a referee ruin a good hockey game, but never seen one ruin a life.

Trash- you have made some very valid points. That and 5 dollars will get you a coffee at starbucks. Climb down off the soapbox, or start confronting this behavior in person at one of the hundreds of events that you attend each year (kinda creepy). I think your point has validity, but you are not going to start a grassroots effort on this bored. But you seem to have a decent bu Wsiness plan, Psychological help for over zealous parents, probably advertising in the wrong place though.

Edge......every chance I get, I introduce myself to someone I see having a hard time at a youth or high school sporting event and we talk for a bit. When I see a coach mistreating kids, I speak with them after the game. When I see a coach being positive and displaying good sportsmanship, I introduce myself and let them know I think they did a nice job. Every appropriate chance I get, I get invovled. I may have sidled up to a few people on this board and gently tapped them on the shoulder. I may have had a meeting after a game with a few coaches on this board. I willingly contact administrators and let them know when there are issues. Join me won't you? No, I didn't speak with the red faced, spitting grandma at the baseball game. Tough crowd

I wish I had that kind of free time ... however I do applaud the size of your nose and your freedom to stick it where ever you damn well please.

If half this 'bored' knew half as much as you claim to know, the economy would be stable and no child would be left behind.

The end.

[Trash Hauler]

Trash- you have made some very valid points. That and 5 dollars will get you a coffee at starbucks. Climb down off the soapbox, or start confronting this behavior in person at one of the hundreds of events that you attend each year (kinda creepy). I think your point has validity, but you are not going to start a grassroots effort on this bored. But you seem to have a decent bu Wsiness plan, Psychological help for over zealous parents, probably advertising in the wrong place though.

Edge......every chance I get, I introduce myself to someone I see having a hard time at a youth or high school sporting event and we talk for a bit. When I see a coach mistreating kids, I speak with them after the game. When I see a coach being positive and displaying good sportsmanship, I introduce myself and let them know I think they did a nice job. Every appropriate chance I get, I get invovled. I may have sidled up to a few people on this board and gently tapped them on the shoulder. I may have had a meeting after a game with a few coaches on this board. I willingly contact administrators and let them know when there are issues. Join me won't you? No, I didn't speak with the red faced, spitting grandma at the baseball game. Tough crowd

I wish I had that kind of free time ... however I do applaud the size of your nose and your freedom to stick it where ever you damn well please.

If half this 'bored' knew half as much as you claim to know, the economy would be stable and no child would be left behind.

The end.

Good talk.

[Mite-dad]

Yes, there are crazies in the stands of all youth athletic events. As I said, I have been to hundreds and hundreds of youth events, with my focus being on parent behavior. My observation is that it is not a rare occurance. Let's make it a rivalry game, or even better, a C Pee Wee "playoff game", a 14U girls playoff game. I go as an innocent by stander. I watch CROWDS of parents act like idiots....let me think of a more clinical word......misbehave. Red faces, screaming, thinking and believing they have a better view of the blue line from the corner than the linesman standing on it, and then losing their mind over an offside call.

I can't go along with "it is the way it is". I believe that it is unacceptable and that we can slowly but surely effect change. If you have seen one 12 year old child told by a parent that they do not deserve a ride home because they didn't put out a good effort, it should cause you to get involved. It's heartbreaking. I have seen and heard similar statements too many times. I don't mean to claim ultimate knowledge, but I do claim to have focused my observations on it for longer than I care to admit. To a fault, I go to youth games and watch parents and coaches, while others watch the game. I have witnessed not a couple, but many parents approach a game official after a game, and not to get a rule interpretation but to act out on their emotions from a youth hockey or baseketball game. Often the official is a child themselves. Look folks, it may not be you, but it's high time we stopped ignoring what whe know is going on.

Regarding your comment on some of the most gifted people the world has ever known, I would simply replace the word "pushed", with the word "guided". When "guiding" a gifted child, their age needs to be taken into account. I simply believe that the "push" is too much, too soon. Really? Was Babe Ruth "pushed" at an early age? Was Monet "pushed" to paint? Can you really push an artist? I'm not sure, and can't dispute that, but I will dig in on the research.

Actually TH, many of the people he listed were "pushed" and not guided back then. Read some of the books on these historic figures and you'll see they were beaten or worse in an effort to "guide" their talents. Literally beaten to keep them working on their "craft" (ever read about Beethoven or Mozarts upbringings... or JFK's... yikes is what you'll be saying...). Now obviously that is sick, wrong and unacceptable but yes many of the ones he listed were "pushed" not guided.

Well now I've got a dilemma. For two of my kids, it's too late, they got away with no beatings. But with the other two, should I get out the leather strap I inherited from my father, or "guide" the younger two? Wouldn't it be crazy to find out that Beethoven got his ears slapped back so much it made him deaf, and that the beatings were reasponsible for his greatness? Seriously, it would be interesting to know whether their gifts were created in the womb or from their upbringing or both. Would they have excelled simply because they had it in them or would they have failed to reach their potential without the beatings and other strong influences. The question has always facinated me.

I've worked with a kid that is a phenomenal athlete, and a very gifted student. This, now 18 year old kid, was brought up with incredible pressure to be a peak performer. Never beaten, etc, but always told great job, but you can do better. To most observers, he was loved and cherished by his parents. This kid has experienced huge success on the field and in the classroom. The problem is he, lacks self confidence and is constantly searching for approval of others, no matter how well he perfoms. This is likely due to the fact that he felt he was never good enough in his parents eyes, and always needed to be better, even though he has always been at or near the top of his peers. What you are left with is a really nice kid, excelling in many areas, but very unhappy. Again, is this every kid? Surely not, but the issues are so very deep that they are diffucult to mend. It's just something to think about. "Great job today", and leaving it at that, with no buts following the compliment, is a good strategy particularly and especially when the kid is young.

Just curious how you would know for sure that this boy's self-confidence issue was a result of his upbringing or just the way he would have been despite his environment. Someone who is shy and introverted may naturally have self-confidence issues no matter how talented he is (I know you didn't describe him as such but I'm just thinking here).

[black sheep]

wow.

parents = fans = fanatics = a holder of extreme or irrational enthusiasms or beliefs, especially in religion or politics or "sports".

good debate to solve the worlds problems, but youth sports may not be at the top of that list.

Since reading this post this morning, i have talked to several different personalities types at work today...seems you have to deal with them in real life too not just at youth hockey games.