Machine Article

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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DrGaf
Posts: 636
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Post by DrGaf » Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 am

icehornet wrote:Can you argue otherwise? How is it possible for a kid (or anyone for that matter) regularly playing/practicing with other highly skilled players to not improve?
Ha. I'm proof. I played HS varsity with 3 future pros. I was terrible.

icehornet
Posts: 92
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Post by icehornet » Tue May 08, 2012 11:05 am

DrGaf wrote: Ha. I'm proof. I played HS varsity with 3 future pros. I was terrible.
But did you go from good to terrible during that time or really terrible to just terrible? :wink:

DrGaf
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Post by DrGaf » Tue May 08, 2012 11:18 am

icehornet wrote:
DrGaf wrote: Ha. I'm proof. I played HS varsity with 3 future pros. I was terrible.
But did you go from good to terrible during that time or really terrible to just terrible? :wink:
I just had the best fake ID. :D

kopernicus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:52 pm

Post by kopernicus » Wed May 09, 2012 10:41 am

icehornet wrote:Can you argue otherwise? How is it possible for a kid (or anyone for that matter) regularly playing/practicing with other highly skilled players to not improve?
Last year I was lucky enough to coach a Sq C team in D6. I am not the best skater in the world. These kids had passion for the game, but not the pure athleticism or skills.

Many practices were split ice with a B or A team, and the first half of practice was skating skills in combined groups.

We saw many (not all) of the kids improve dramatically from start of season to the end in regards to skating skill, puck handling technique, and general hockey sense which led to improved team play.

I am proud of this team and I believe they had a fun season. Hopefully they will all sign up for hockey with the association next season.

Irish
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:21 pm

Post by Irish » Wed May 09, 2012 8:15 pm

icehornet wrote:Always interesting reading the posts from people who hate on MM or Bernie. I don't have a vested interest either way but because he built a successful (private) business and gave kids/parents another option he gets a lot of heat for it. There seem to be plenty of people lining up to pay the "overpriced" fees they charge. They must be doing something right to attract a lot of talented kids.

Isn't it common sense that practicing with top end talent (or kids that are better) will ultimately raise a kids level of play? Yeah a kid might look better playing with good teammates but I can guarantee the kid is getting better by getting ice time and practicing with those top level kids as well. As for the "good players are going to be good no matter who the coach is"....sure, but those good players can either become great or start to lose ground because of coaching too.
I applaud what Bernie has done for hockey. He offers some thing that local associations cannot. Ice time - Ice time - Ice time. Some people argue that kids don't need so much ice time at an early age. I have yet to see one player ever burn out at Minnesota made. On the flip side there's nothing wrong with placing kids in association hockey. Do what's best for your family and situation.
My son skated at Minnesota made and it has opened up many doors in regards to hockey. There are families from all over the metro area at the made and it's a great opportunity to network.
Reminder, Minnesota made is a business. The kids will get more ice time versus association hockey. The kids will skate with better skaters versus association hockey. Per hour when my son skated at Minnesota Made it actually was cheaper per hour versus our association.
If Minnesota made is not for you or your family no need to hate.

hockeygirl2
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Post by hockeygirl2 » Thu May 10, 2012 7:26 am

So if I am reading this right Bernie puts on the Stars and stripes tourney, elite and open, and his machine teams are in the elite as the machine, and the Attack team that won almost every level in the open tourney was the machine cloaked as the Attack? If that's true, that tells me a lot. In reading the article, shouldn't Bernie have been practicing instead of playing in another tourney? If the elite tourneys are set up to keep the lessor teams out, shouldn't those organizations respect it the other way for the open tourney? It is absolutely the most selfish thing I have read, if true.

snyper12
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Post by snyper12 » Thu May 10, 2012 11:25 am

hockeygirl2 wrote:So if I am reading this right Bernie puts on the Stars and stripes tourney, elite and open, and his machine teams are in the elite as the machine, and the Attack team that won almost every level in the open tourney was the machine cloaked as the Attack? If that's true, that tells me a lot. In reading the article, shouldn't Bernie have been practicing instead of playing in another tourney? If the elite tourneys are set up to keep the lessor teams out, shouldn't those organizations respect it the other way for the open tourney? It is absolutely the most selfish thing I have read, if true.
To clarify - write or wrong not sure - but the attack teams playing were machine teams but a year below. I.e. the attack team in 98 open would be the 99 machine team.

icehornet
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Post by icehornet » Thu May 10, 2012 12:32 pm

snyper12 wrote: To clarify - write or wrong not sure - but the attack teams playing were machine teams but a year below. I.e. the attack team in 98 open would be the 99 machine team.
That I take issue with. You host an open tournament that your invite teams play in? Doesn't matter if they're a year younger, the other teams paid money to be in an open tournament and not play against invite level kids. Not a good move, IMO.

snyper12
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Post by snyper12 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:37 pm

icehornet wrote:
snyper12 wrote: To clarify - write or wrong not sure - but the attack teams playing were machine teams but a year below. I.e. the attack team in 98 open would be the 99 machine team.
That I take issue with. You host an open tournament that your invite teams play in? Doesn't matter if they're a year younger, the other teams paid money to be in an open tournament and not play against invite level kids. Not a good move, IMO.

I'm not taking a side and am uninvolved - just stating what I heard are the facts.

icehornet
Posts: 92
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Post by icehornet » Thu May 10, 2012 3:41 pm

snyper12 wrote:
icehornet wrote:
snyper12 wrote: To clarify - write or wrong not sure - but the attack teams playing were machine teams but a year below. I.e. the attack team in 98 open would be the 99 machine team.
That I take issue with. You host an open tournament that your invite teams play in? Doesn't matter if they're a year younger, the other teams paid money to be in an open tournament and not play against invite level kids. Not a good move, IMO.

I'm not taking a side and am uninvolved - just stating what I heard are the facts.
Understood, wasn't targeting my post at you. The "you" in my post was directed at MN Made.

MNM JMH
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Post by MNM JMH » Thu May 10, 2012 6:28 pm

So what is wrong if the attack team played a year up in the open tourn. As a parent don't you want your kids to play against the best to help develop them for the next year? For some one to come on here and cry about what MNMade does as a business to better the kids that pay "or as some say spend all of there daddy's money" on playing up in tourns sounds like another parent living the dream through their kids life. Summer is and should be about getting better for the next year at assoc Hockey. If not bring them up to the made and maybe they can make a top winning team. Or just stop writing stuff that only matters to you The Parent.

hockeygirl2
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Post by hockeygirl2 » Thu May 10, 2012 7:00 pm

MNM, then why do they bother to call tournaments "elite", or "invitational", or "open"? If this occurred, this is not right. If you have any doubts why Tourney's are elite or open, then you haven't a clue, or you just don't care. It's really unfortunate

MNM JMH
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Post by MNM JMH » Thu May 10, 2012 7:15 pm

hockeygirl2 wrote:MNM, then why do they bother to call tournaments "elite", or "invitational", or "open"? If this occurred, this is not right. If you have any doubts why Tourney's are elite or open, then you haven't a clue, or you just don't care. It's really unfortunate
I think we all know what to expect from the Stars and Strips. If your team got beat then they now know what to expect for next year. Don't play in it. You do know that MNMade puts on the tourn ? If not YOU don't have a clue.
It is still an elite or invitational, and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with playing up a year. If they are called the Attack, Machine ,or the Blades. Look at the last 4 yrs. also have you thought that maybe by playing up a year MNMade is trying to see what they will have for the next year with the players. MNMade is a business . Final.
And there is not one thing wrong with that. Don't pay them any money if you don't like what they do.

funmom
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machine article

Post by funmom » Thu May 10, 2012 9:06 pm

i think its fine for teams to play up a year but why wear different jerseys and play under a different name?

MNM JMH
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Re: machine article

Post by MNM JMH » Thu May 10, 2012 9:52 pm

funmom wrote:i think its fine for teams to play up a year but why wear different jerseys and play under a different name?
This isn't the first tourn they have played as the attack. It must be that you are new to this and like I said before. IT'S A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT. Team attack is playing in next weekends Independents Classic tourn in the 04 div. what should all the other teams drop out due to them playing. Or will the teams they are playing only learn from it. We will see. I dont even know if it's the year to comes Machine team or not but it won't matter. It's hockey and is it the kids game for kids or the daddys game for there kids. Earthier way if you can't beat em join em. Look into what they are doing at the made and your kid will only get better. Maybe put him or her in on of there clinics to see how they do it since they have such good teams.

hockeygirl2
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Post by hockeygirl2 » Thu May 10, 2012 10:21 pm

Just ignore MNM. He's obviously a kid who is trying to incite a reaction.

blindref
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Post by blindref » Thu May 10, 2012 10:45 pm

Nothing wrong with playing up but why be ashamed of doing it by changing your team's name?
Playing up in a lower level invite tournament would probably teach your kids more than pounding on open teams.

icehornet
Posts: 92
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Post by icehornet » Thu May 10, 2012 11:03 pm

blindref wrote:Nothing wrong with playing up but why be ashamed of doing it by changing your team's name?
Playing up in a lower level invite tournament would probably teach your kids more than pounding on open teams.
+1

forreal
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Re: machine article

Post by forreal » Thu May 10, 2012 11:29 pm

MNM JMH wrote:
funmom wrote:i think its fine for teams to play up a year but why wear different jerseys and play under a different name?
This isn't the first tourn they have played as the attack. It must be that you are new to this and like I said before. IT'S A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT. Team attack is playing in next weekends Independents Classic tourn in the 04 div. what should all the other teams drop out due to them playing. Or will the teams they are playing only learn from it. We will see. I dont even know if it's the year to comes Machine team or not but it won't matter. It's hockey and is it the kids game for kids or the daddys game for there kids. Earthier way if you can't beat em join em. Look into what they are doing at the made and your kid will only get better. Maybe put him or her in on of there clinics to see how they do it since they have such good teams.
It's also highly likely the teams don't wear their normal jerseys because those in charge and the parents can't risk losing a game as their real team. All in all the kids don't care. They probably just want to play. It's the adults egos that cause the problems. Also might help the kids out to have less then 10 tournaments a summer. Makes them appreciate playing and keeps them more aggressive when they don't play every weekend.

Also it looks like there were many open teams playing the weekend before in the invite devision. That tournament needs to do a better job of getting elite teams or having less teams per category.

Irish
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Re: machine article

Post by Irish » Sun May 13, 2012 1:35 am

funmom wrote:i think its fine for teams to play up a year but why wear different jerseys and play under a different name?
Agreed! Can some one explain why they have to change names? Does it really matter now that every one knows who they really are? I get the younger teams want to play up for development.

For the record the orangeless 99 Machine Black (Attack) team did play in the 99 division in the Stars and Stripes and went 0-4.
Which leads me back to my original question. Why does the Machine Black team need 3 Machine orange players in tournaments? Why not just add three more skaters to practice and play in tournaments as a set roster? Not to mention it will add more revenue.

Still haven't heard a logical reason. :?:

Irish
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Post by Irish » Sun May 13, 2012 1:43 am

Keep in mind. I know the Stars and Stripes were short teams in the 99 Invite divison. The Machine Black team wasn't supposed to play in that tournament. Machine Black played as the Attack and went 0-4.
The other team was Tundra. Players from the all over 5 state area and some Velocity players on the roster.

If I can have a request. Please create some Attack jerseys. The Maroon and Gold tryout jerseys just don't cut it. :wink:

hockeygirl2
Posts: 111
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Post by hockeygirl2 » Sun May 13, 2012 7:01 am

So you are saying for development, 99 "elite" playing against 99 "elite" doesn't develop them, but playing up against open teams do? BM makes it very clear that the development comes at practice, and I agree. There are plenty of tournaments out there, and if they want to "play up" for the development, then have them play up in an invite level tournament. According to what I read, this is better for them anyway because they are then playing against better teams then at the open level--but then again we all realize that playing up in open Tourney's is not about development.

MNM JMH
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:17 pm

Post by MNM JMH » Sun May 13, 2012 8:47 am

hockeygirl2 wrote:So you are saying for development, 99 "elite" playing against 99 "elite" doesn't develop them, but playing up against open teams do? BM makes it very clear that the development comes at practice, and I agree. There are plenty of tournaments out there, and if they want to "play up" for the development, then have them play up in an invite level tournament. According to what I read, this is better for them anyway because they are then playing against better teams then at the open level--but then again we all realize that playing up in open Tourney's is not about development.
Yep, you are right... The only reason to play up or play in open tournaments is to win. Maybe they just want to win win win. And I hope that is the reason. Like I said before its a bis for profit. If you don't like what decision a bis may make then don't shop or have any thing to do with it. Like playing in there tournys or playing against them. Hands down there is not another place like MNMade that can offer the game of hockey like they do. All the kids that go there will get better do to ice time and coaching. In all you where the parent driving home after the Stars And Strips telling little Billy it was not fair to have a machine team play against his team. Little Billy never said a word it was you the supper parent doing all the talking. That is the truth... Mso if they want to call them selfs the Attack and not let the whole world of youth summer hockey know , then only you care. If ou want the real aNwser then call up and talk to them. They will at least give you your aNwser. Why wait for it in this fourm and act like someone is dogging the QA's .

TheJet
Posts: 187
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Post by TheJet » Sun May 13, 2012 6:47 pm

Stars/Stripes Open - Seems logical if you are short a team to add one? What would be your solution to being short one paid entrant late in the process?

57special
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Post by 57special » Mon May 14, 2012 8:46 am

I don't see the point for any team to play far inferior opposition. It causes bad habits.

My sons MOR 2000 team played in a tournament recently where they handling the opposition pretty easily. Lots of bragging was going on about how many goals they scored individually, passes were few, and the goalies were bored. Ran into the 2001 Machine Orange (in disguise) and got beaten by 5. I wish that we got to play them more, as getting our butts kicked got the kid's attention more than all of their victorys.

I do wonder what the score was in the game between that Machine team and the team we beat 11-2 in the same tournament. Sort of a lose/lose situation.

I guess my point of view is different than some others. If my son is going to be playing hockey during the summer, then I want him to be playing with and against the best competition we possibly can as long as the reffing is fair and the kids aren't getting intentionally injured.

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