Rules?

[ewasick]

Should coaches and players read a rule book at all. I don't think many of them have. As a ref I have to read them. I quess my question is: what's stopping players and coaches from reading the rule book? If I were coaching I would have my players read the rules so that they understand the game better.

[Air Force 1]

Should coaches and players read a rule book at all. I don't think many of them have. As a ref I have to read them. I quess my question is: what's stopping players and coaches from reading the rule book? If I were coaching I would have my players read the rules so that they understand the game better.

Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules!

[greybeard58]

Have some fun sometimes the USA Hockey site has the referees tests from previous years with the correct answers. Maybe all coaches should at least take the first 50 questions.

[theref]

I played through USA Hockey and have also been an official for 14 years. In my playing days, I never once remember receiving a rule book. I would guess that the coaches do, but from what I understand the coaches clinics are never about rules. It is kind of disturbing to think that the participants skate around uninformed.

[starmvp]

Should coaches and players read a rule book at all. I don't think many of them have. As a ref I have to read them. I quess my question is: what's stopping players and coaches from reading the rule book? If I were coaching I would have my players read the rules so that they understand the game better.

I do think that reading the rules would help reduce arguing on icing, hand pass, and other small rules...

[hawkhockey]

i think its funny that a hockey player can go his whole career without reading the rules. probly even NHL guys have never opened a rule book. seems as though we rely on the things people tell us. i became a ref a few years ago and it really opened up the game for me when i really started learning the actual rules

[goldy313]

In high school head coaches are required to attend the annual rules meeting with the officials. I think that's a great thing, then we're all on the same page at least rules wise at the start of the season and I truly believe it makes he season go better. Rarely do I have a rules problem with a head coach, nearly always it's with assistants who are completely clueless when it come to rules changes and often in the differences between college, pro's and high school. Judgement is always a fickle thing but rules are hard and fast. I wish parents were required to do the same but that's every officials dream

[BarTender3035]

I'll sit down and read the rule book if the officials will sit down and understand/know the game of hockey! I could go on and on but it will do me no good, just like on the ice. Even if I'm calm.

[jBlaze3000]

I am a Squirt coach and I actually just looked at the rulebook for the first time yesterday. Reason being is that in our district tournament one of our kids was told to sit in the first period because he did not have a chin strap on his helmet. Now I don't doubt that there is a rule that all players need a chin strap, but here is what bothered me:

1. This rule had not been enforced all year.
2. Three other kids on our team and a handful of kids on the other team did not have chinstraps.

and most importantly:
3. When I called for the ref to come to the bench and explain his decision he would not even give me the time of day. Several attempts to motion him over to the bench failed until finally he yelled "I'M RUNNING THIS SHOW, NOT YOU!"

Now, I was really surprised that he would not even approach the bench to clarify his decision. I was not angry at all, I was just looking for some clarification as to why one player had to sit the entire game (which ended up being his last of the season) when there were a half dozen other kids that didn't have chin straps that were being allowed to play.

Amazingly, I was not able to find one thing in the rule book that explains what a ref is to do if a coach asks for clarification or asks the ref to approach the bench. I agree that all coaches should read the rulebook but the ref is still supposed to have the most knowledge of the rules and most importantly be a teacher to the kids (and coaches). From time to time that means possibly having to explain a thing or two and to refuse to do that is not being a very good ref in my opinion.

[My_Kid_Loves_Hockey]

I have read a majority of the rule book and it doesn't seem to matter because unless you have it with you on the bench to point it out, its up to the ref.

Case in point, early this year in a tournament, the opponent pulled their goalie and when he was about 15' from the bench, they sent the player on for him with the ref looking directly at them. When play stopped I called the ref over and asked why he allowed that substitution before the goalie was in(or at least at) the bench?

I was told that I didn't know the rule and I should read the rulebook.

The next game we had to pull the goalie for an extra skater and we substituted just as I was told by the prior days ref......but this time it was called as I originally thought


Also in our district, if you sneeze on a kid and it's anywhere near his back it's a 2 & 10 but when we played in a D15, D3 and D10 tournament, you had to take a kid out on a stretcher to get a 2 & 10.

I could go on about this weekends District playoff where there were 6 skater at least 20' from the bench and I watched the ref count them and not call it, when asked why, his answer was they were not in the play (no but they were really open on that weak side for a nice pass)


Consistency from offical's is a bigger issue that coaches not knowing the rules

[jBlaze3000]

When play stopped I called the ref over and asked why he allowed that substitution before the goalie was in(or at least at) the bench?

At least he came over to you and gave you an explanation, even if it was the wrong one. When I tried to signal the ref over he gave me a look like I had just kicked his dog. Is there a specific method to get the ref to approach the bench? A secret hand signal maybe?

[PWD10]

It really pains me when I see this type of behavior.

FWIW
On-Ice Official’s Code of Conduct
• Act in a professional and businesslike manner at all times and take your
role seriously.
• Strive to provide a safe and sportsmanlike environment in which
players can properly display their hockey skills.
• Know all playing rules, their interpretations and their proper
application.
• Remember that officials are teachers. Set a good example.
• Make your calls with quiet confidence; never with arrogance.
• Control games to provide a positive and safe experience for all
participants.
• Violence must never be tolerated.
• Be fair and impartial at all times.
• Answer all reasonable questions and requests.
• Adopt a “zero tolerance” attitude toward verbal or physical abuse.
• Never use foul or vulgar language when speaking with a player, coach
or parent.
• Use honesty and integrity when answering questions.
• Admit your mistakes when you make them.
• Never openly criticize a coach, player or other official.
• Keep your emotions under control.
• Use only USA Hockey-approved officiating techniques and policies.
• Maintain your health through a physical conditioning program.
• Dedicate yourself to personal improvement and maintenance of
officiating skills.
• Respect your supervisor and his/her critique of your performance.

Ref 2009-2010 USA Hockey Annual Guide.

[QuackerTracker]

When play stopped I called the ref over and asked why he allowed that substitution before the goalie was in(or at least at) the bench?

At least he came over to you and gave you an explanation, even if it was the wrong one. When I tried to signal the ref over he gave me a look like I had just kicked his dog. Is there a specific method to get the ref to approach the bench? A secret hand signal maybe?

If you have a question for an ref here is somethings that will help you out:

1. Come down from the bench to eye level.
2. Know the refs names. After they come over and shake your hand write the names down. Don't write them when they are still at your bench but when they are gone.
3. Questioning judgement is not going to help you at all (i.e. minor penalties)
4. Ask what for the refs interpritation of what they saw. Don't just say "you are wrong". Not going to get you far.
5. Don't call the ref over at every stoppage. You are going to get the official to the point of not coming over at all.

[jBlaze3000]

When play stopped I called the ref over and asked why he allowed that substitution before the goalie was in(or at least at) the bench?

At least he came over to you and gave you an explanation, even if it was the wrong one. When I tried to signal the ref over he gave me a look like I had just kicked his dog. Is there a specific method to get the ref to approach the bench? A secret hand signal maybe?

If you have a question for an ref here is somethings that will help you out:

1. Come down from the bench to eye level.
2. Know the refs names. After they come over and shake your hand write the names down. Don't write them when they are still at your bench but when they are gone.
3. Questioning judgement is not going to help you at all (i.e. minor penalties)
4. Ask what for the refs interpritation of what they saw. Don't just say "you are wrong". Not going to get you far.
5. Don't call the ref over at every stoppage. You are going to get the official to the point of not coming over at all.

I could see how #2 could have helped my cause. People are generally more responsive when you address them by name. I was down from the bench when I tried to get him to come over but because he would not even approach the bench there was no opportunity for #3, #4, and #5 to even happen.

[QuackerTracker]

At least he came over to you and gave you an explanation, even if it was the wrong one. When I tried to signal the ref over he gave me a look like I had just kicked his dog. Is there a specific method to get the ref to approach the bench? A secret hand signal maybe?

If you have a question for an ref here is somethings that will help you out:

1. Come down from the bench to eye level.
2. Know the refs names. After they come over and shake your hand write the names down. Don't write them when they are still at your bench but when they are gone.
3. Questioning judgement is not going to help you at all (i.e. minor penalties)
4. Ask what for the refs interpritation of what they saw. Don't just say "you are wrong". Not going to get you far.
5. Don't call the ref over at every stoppage. You are going to get the official to the point of not coming over at all.

I could see how #2 could have helped my cause. People are generally more responsive when you address them by name. I was down from the bench when I tried to get him to come over but because he would not even approach the bench there was no opportunity for #3, #4, and #5 to even happen.

the sad reallity is that there are only 5% of the officials that care about doing a quality job. The other 95% are there for the paycheck (which if you look at the abuse I put on my car ain't a lot). There are just too many games so you will end up with some sh*ty refs. I wish I had a better answer for you!!!

[inthestands]

the sad reallity is that there are only 5% of the officials that care about doing a quality job

I'd like to see your research on that percentage.. That is total horsecrap. One reason there is a poor ratio of new officials to games in a season woulde be the abuse they suffer through. The expectation fans, coaches and players have is unreasonable and going in the wrong direction. Just an opinon from someone that has been on both sides of the bench.

If a coach of player kept things in perspective when questioning something going on, things would be a lot better. No question there are officials that need to have much better people skills when working a game, but over 50% of new officials find risk/reward just isn't worth it. At some point in time, if something doesn't change, there will be no young upcoming officials to take the spot of those older, slower, and at times crabbiery veterans...

Even if every player and coach studied the rule book, the way each individual interprets the rule is where the issues come into play. When officials are working a game, they will see things differently than a fan, coach or player may see things. The officials don't "watch" a game the same way.

I guess that will never change, and if you really listen to things going on in the stands during a hockey game it's much easier to understand why things get off the beaten path...

[greybeard58]

Go to the USA Hockey web site and download the casebook under officials,this not only has the rules but also a large number of different scenarios and whether or not it would be a penalty.

[i am thee best]

One reason there is a poor ratio of new officials to games in a season woulde be the abuse they suffer through.

My advice to these officials would be to suck it up. In my experience as an official, and in talking with others I work with (many in the junior development program) you tend to have a better experience with coaches/players/fans after your first couple years. You learn to better communicate with coaches and are more confident that you made the correct call.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think coaches should be required to read a rulebook, but if you don't know the rules it's hard to ask the ref questions about them.

[blindref]

As for the topic at hand, I don't think coaches should be required to read a rulebook, but if you don't know the rules it's hard to ask the ref questions about them.[/quote]

You're right. Why should a coach be required to read a rulebook?
You wouldn't want to teach kids little rule changes that might help them make a play to win a game.

Here are a few examples.....

If you pick up a puck from the ice it's delay of game (happened in a high school game last week).
If there is an altercation in an attacking zone after a whistle and the attacking defenseman skate below the top of the circles, the impending faceoff moves to the neutral zone. (Seen it three times this year)
Goalies serve their own misconducts in High School.
If a puck is iced and passes through the crease or hits the side of the net it is still icing.
If a net is obviously dislodged on purpose when there is an obvious scoring chance pending, the attacking team is awarded a penalty shot.
Returning penalized players are no longer required to tag up with their blueline upon returning to the ice before playing the puck. This rule changed about six years ago.

Why would a coach want to learn any of these things?
Just be ignorant and yell a lot.





They can just stand on the bench

[Air Force 1]

Be careful using high school scenarios when talking about youth hockey. High school follows NFHS (National Federation of High School) rules and youth hockey follows USA Hockey rules. There ARE slight differences just as there are at the college and pro level.

I ref football and the same problems exist on the sidelines. Officials and head coaches go to rulles meetings before the season and good information is given out. I always enjoy doing a game where one or both of the coaches was at the preseason meeting as we can renew our raport and if something comes up that was covered at the meeting, we can discuss it. One thing that does get frustrating is when the players, assistant coaches or even some head coaches want the officials to call a high school game on Friday night like a pro game on Sunday afternoon but some of the rules are different.

My son is a second year Bantam and a second year Level 1 official. In helping him with his test by correcting it for him and discussing the errors before he submits it, I have learned a TON from the rulebook, many things that the coaches argue about at the games.

Read it, you will be suprised.

[inthestands]

One reason there is a poor ratio of new officials to games in a season woulde be the abuse they suffer through.

My advice to these officials would be to suck it up. In my experience as an official, and in talking with others I work with (many in the junior development program) you tend to have a better experience with coaches/players/fans after your first couple years. You learn to better communicate with coaches and are more confident that you made the correct call.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think coaches should be required to read a rulebook, but if you don't know the rules it's hard to ask the ref questions about them.

This outlook will be great for a 13 year old doing his first sqirt game.

Question"s" -
How many of you have rules at your work place, or school?
Do you know what those rules consist of?
Could you function correctly if you didn't know the rules?

I'm not saying coaches and players need to know the rule book inside and out, but a basic understanding would be great. That isn't always the case.

[Puck Whisperer]

I gave some friendly reminders the other night where the face off needed to take place (inside zone vs. over blue line) so I think coaches should know the basics. Kids reading the rules is pointless - parents on the other hand would be hockey Nirvana!

[theref]

I gave some friendly reminders the other night where the face off needed to take place (inside zone vs. over blue line) so I think coaches should know the basics. Kids reading the rules is pointless - parents on the other hand would be hockey Nirvana!

God we can only dream can't we.

[a1puck]

I have run the clock at a 1000 games, squirts - bantams. I have a great vantage point to watch coach/ref interaction.

I am amazed we don't see MORE bench minors.

I am amazed that the social graces that some of coaches MUST know to even hold a job are left at the door of the arena. You would NEVER talk to your wife, boss, co-worker, neighbor the way you talk to a ref. Yet you growl at a 16 year old kid like your life depends on it. And then, after running the guy up the flagpole for what seems to him like a half hour, after the game you shake hands, laugh, pat on back...

My favorite is when an old grizzled coach draws the unsuspecting 14 year old kid over to his side and asks, "explain to me how that wasn't a (insert penalty here)... then just asks the poor kid the same thing 6 times in row while the kid sweats. Why not just tell the kid, "hey, I think you missed that one, please watch for that." and then let him go.

Most coaches are a hoot. Some are pricks.

[Blue&Gold]

Most coaches are a hoot. Some are pricks.

And some refs are good, and some are pricks.

As a coach many years ago, I felt it my duty to know the current rule book, and to pass on as much of that knowledge to my players. I held off-ice sessions, usually with pizza and stuff, to talk about the game of hockey which included going over rules. These were good sessions and I can attest that my players and I were more knowledgeable of the game than some of the refs that we encountered.

Remember when the rule changed that goalies could no longer play with a broken stick? Our team knew that before some of the refs did.

Enjoy the game guys... our kids grow up WAY too fast.