Any Meltdown scores from last night?

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:10 am

BluntInstrument wrote:
jBlaze3000 wrote:I saw the championship game between the 98 Jr Badgers and the Thunder Bay 98's (Thunder Bay won 2-1) and I'd say that the better team definitely won the game. I wasn't routing for either team but by the end of the game I found myself cheering for Thunder Bay because the Badgers coach came across as a bit of a whiner. He was throwing his hand up calling for penalties at the slightest incidental contact (somewhat understandable because his team was down 2-0 most of the game). His team was very aggressive (not dirty, but there definitely could have been a few more penalties called against them) which is fine but don't play physical and then whine when the other team gives it back.

BTW, did anyone ever figure out what the difference was between the Campbell and Whales conferences at the 98 level?
I saw the same thing in earlier games with Badger coach. Someone said Badgers had 4 or 5 Blades players ( not that its a big deal) and played them every other shift. Did they play the championship game ? Nice win for Thunderbay.
I disagree. If this was an invite-level tournament, fine, stack the team as much as you want. But this was the open-level, and the teams should not be loading up with invite-level players....there is a term for that: "sandbagging".

BluntInstrument
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Post by BluntInstrument » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:26 am

muckandgrind wrote:
BluntInstrument wrote:
jBlaze3000 wrote:I saw the championship game between the 98 Jr Badgers and the Thunder Bay 98's (Thunder Bay won 2-1) and I'd say that the better team definitely won the game. I wasn't routing for either team but by the end of the game I found myself cheering for Thunder Bay because the Badgers coach came across as a bit of a whiner. He was throwing his hand up calling for penalties at the slightest incidental contact (somewhat understandable because his team was down 2-0 most of the game). His team was very aggressive (not dirty, but there definitely could have been a few more penalties called against them) which is fine but don't play physical and then whine when the other team gives it back.

BTW, did anyone ever figure out what the difference was between the Campbell and Whales conferences at the 98 level?
I saw the same thing in earlier games with Badger coach. Someone said Badgers had 4 or 5 Blades players ( not that its a big deal) and played them every other shift. Did they play the championship game ? Nice win for Thunderbay.
I disagree. If this was an invite-level tournament, fine, stack the team as much as you want. But this was the open-level, and the teams should not be loading up with invite-level players....there is a term for that: "sandbagging".
Apparently they sandbag ... and do it every year. Another thread asked if they won last year why there not in the invite and I'm guessing its because they have invite players, wouldn't have them in the invite and cant compete without them. Appears that's another indication of the coaches character ? With the whales conference its not as big a deal as these teams may be "trying out" for invite perhaps? I dont know how it works but games I saw Badgers play the Blades played a lot and carried the team.

thunderwolf
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Post by thunderwolf » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:00 am

BluntInstrument wrote:I saw the same thing in earlier games with Badger coach. Someone said Badgers had 4 or 5 Blades players ( not that its a big deal) and played them every other shift. Did they play the championship game ? Nice win for Thunderbay.
They had three that I know of #16, 20 and 38. 16 and 20 didn't play the final. Not sure about 38. Took a bit of the wind out of the victory(yes I'm a T Bay parent) but I thought our kids outplayed them in the first game(a 7-7 tie) with all three playing.

17 and 19 for Badgers were also super players and played alot. I watched them play against Snipers on Saturday and there were a few kids that played very little.

Night Train
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Post by Night Train » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 am

That's not right. The Jr. Badgers organization and the Blades organization, and families, aren't handling that correctly. The Blades are an invite level team. Period. The Jr. Badgers are an open level team until they stack it with invite level players, from an invite level organization. Wrong. Jr. Badgers need to find, and use, their own players. Plus, I never understood how it would be considered fair by full paying members of the Jr. Badgers organization. The ringers skate every other shift? The full paying families can't be happy about that.

There was a story about some kid leaving a Minnesota Made team wanting to play with the Jr. Badgers this year (why, I'll never understand as there's 8-10-12 metro teams to choose from) but denied from playing with them in a particular tournament. The tournament is an invite level one I believe. He should be allowed to play in my opinion. Then we have this instance where invite players are used on an open team? This example is even more egregious.

Now one little twist. Some Blade teams have 20-25 man rosters for some other confusing reason. Maybe these kids are the ones that have already been told by the Blades that they aren't going to play with them in upcoming Blade invite level tournament appearances so go ahead and get some ice time with someone else. Practice players? Weaker Blade players?

thunderwolf
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Post by thunderwolf » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:25 am

Night Train wrote:
Now one little twist. Some Blade teams have 20-25 man rosters for some other confusing reason. Maybe these kids are the ones that have already been told by the Blades that they aren't going to play with them in upcoming Blade invite level tournament appearances so go ahead and get some ice time with someone else. Practice players? Weaker Blade players?
All three are on the Blades roster listed in the program for the Meltdown invite this weekend. #20 played for the Badgers last year and 16 played in at least one tournament. FWIW the Bellows kid also played a tourney with them last year I believe.

BluntInstrument
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Post by BluntInstrument » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:32 am

Night Train wrote:That's not right. The Jr. Badgers organization and the Blades organization, and families, aren't handling that correctly. The Blades are an invite level team. Period. The Jr. Badgers are an open level team until they stack it with invite level players, from an invite level organization. Wrong. Jr. Badgers need to find, and use, their own players. Plus, I never understood how it would be considered fair by full paying members of the Jr. Badgers organization. The ringers skate every other shift? The full paying families can't be happy about that.

There was a story about some kid leaving a Minnesota Made team wanting to play with the Jr. Badgers this year (why, I'll never understand as there's 8-10-12 metro teams to choose from) but denied from playing with them in a particular tournament. The tournament is an invite level one I believe. He should be allowed to play in my opinion. Then we have this instance where invite players are used on an open team? This example is even more egregious.

Now one little twist. Some Blade teams have 20-25 man rosters for some other confusing reason. Maybe these kids are the ones that have already been told by the Blades that they aren't going to play with them in upcoming Blade invite level tournament appearances so go ahead and get some ice time with someone else. Practice players? Weaker Blade players?
Found the Badgers home page http://minwisaaaelitehockeyleague.puck ... how/11023 and looks like 4 Blades so they are rostered. #5 the goalie in addition to the players mentioned above. They are NOT practice players, they are some of Blades better players im guessing as they were on last years team and this years team even with all the turnover they had. I guess I dont have a problem with them playing in whales bracket but playing every other shift is a little over the top ... like you said the parents of the paying players cant be happy. Or they are because they get hardware.

Looking closer it looks like only the goalie played in the championship game ( they have tournament stats for each player ) .... maybe Blades game/scrimmage/practice. Doesn't seem right to other teams if they bring them in to play them to championship then gone. What about all the other teams who had a team committed to playing ALL the games. Keeps getting more interesting
Last edited by BluntInstrument on Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Night Train
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Post by Night Train » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:34 am

This is exactly why some tournament organizers favor out of town teams. They pay, they come to town, play, and go home. In town teams can be a can of worms with sly operators sliding players in and out of rosters, open and invite. Phone calls, arguments and accusations all over town and on message boards and stuff. None of which happens with out of town teams. The Blades and Jr. Badgers are guilty of making things worse for local teams that are trying to run their organizations properly.

muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:01 am

The best way to deal with issues like this is to get enough people complaining to Showcase and ask that the Jr Badgers not be allowed to participate in the Meltdown Open next year.

If no one voices their complaints, stuff like this will continue to go on.

thunderwolf
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Post by thunderwolf » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:28 am

I would think that any issues the Jr Badgers have would be internal. It's not like they destroyed everyone they played. They finished with two wins(1 blowout), two ties and a loss. Their bracket seemed very fair.

I'm curious what will happen at the Independent Classic in May. If the Blades are entered in the invite, whet type of roster will the Badgers field in the open? I'm guessing the Blades aren't entered in that tourney but we'll see I guess.

edit: according to the Blades website they are in the Prospects tournament, in Toronto that weekend

trippedovertheblueline
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Post by trippedovertheblueline » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:54 am

Night Train wrote: The Blades and Jr. Badgers are guilty of making things worse for local teams that are trying to run their organizations properly.
How are the Blades guilty? Sounds like the players participated in this tournament on their own. If your child is on say Team Easton, and they have the weekend off, do you want them told they cannot play in a MASH game with their friends?

It is easily to understand issue with the jr badgers whom brought in invite players, and showcase for knowingly allowing invite players. Beyond that, not going to stick.

Night Train
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Post by Night Train » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:25 pm

I'm telling you that's why tourney organizers favor out of town teams in their tourneys. No baggage and fussing. Tourney organizers don't, and can't, police slippery local operators. It's the responsibility of organizations to make relationships better with other AAA organizations and tourney sponsors in the metro. I guess if I'm the Blades organization I suggest to the families they stick with Blade Tourney activities. They tried out and paid to be a member of the team let's stick with the team. Make sense? It tips the structure between open and invite. Not rules, just common courtesy and fairness to the truly open level teams. The Jr. Badgers should know that this is how organizations lose berths in tourneys and tarnish their reputation. The 98 Jr. Badgers team has over 20 members listed on their Web site if that's accurate. Guessing, but, no way Blades members paid to be a member of the Jr. Badgers or attend all their practices. Who would think, in their right mind, that it's a good idea to play for an open team in an open tournament. Not acting responsibly.

skilldevelopementguy
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Post by skilldevelopementguy » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:53 pm

BluntInstrument wrote:
jBlaze3000 wrote:I saw the championship game between the 98 Jr Badgers and the Thunder Bay 98's (Thunder Bay won 2-1) and I'd say that the better team definitely won the game. I wasn't routing for either team but by the end of the game I found myself cheering for Thunder Bay because the Badgers coach came across as a bit of a whiner. He was throwing his hand up calling for penalties at the slightest incidental contact (somewhat understandable because his team was down 2-0 most of the game). His team was very aggressive (not dirty, but there definitely could have been a few more penalties called against them) which is fine but don't play physical and then whine when the other team gives it back.

BTW, did anyone ever figure out what the difference was between the Campbell and Whales conferences at the 98 level?
I saw the same thing in earlier games with Badger coach. Someone said Badgers had 4 or 5 Blades players ( not that its a big deal) and played them every other shift. Did they play the championship game ? Nice win for Thunderbay.
I caught the semifinal and final game for the 98 jr. Badgers. In the semi there was a kid wearing a 38 jersey with a different kid's nake on it. He was rostered under the number 85 or something. Anyway, he wasn't in the final game. He is a very good blades player and a good kid who I have trained a few times during the association season.

For sure, from the time the 98 Monopoly Invite team went up on them 2-1 in the third of that semi-final, to the end of the game, his line was playing every other shift.

One thing I thought was rediculous was the badger coach keeping that team on the bench for the whole resurface between the 2nd and 3rd period of that game.
The extra "e" in "developement" is for EXCELLENT!

trippedovertheblueline
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Post by trippedovertheblueline » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:00 pm

Night Train wrote:I'm telling you that's why tourney organizers favor out of town teams in their tourneys. No baggage and fussing. Tourney organizers don't, and can't, police slippery local operators. It's the responsibility of organizations to make relationships better with other AAA organizations and tourney sponsors in the metro. I guess if I'm the Blades organization I suggest to the families they stick with Blade Tourney activities. They tried out and paid to be a member of the team let's stick with the team. Make sense? It tips the structure between open and invite. Not rules, just common courtesy and fairness to the truly open level teams. The Jr. Badgers should know that this is how organizations lose berths in tourneys and tarnish their reputation. The 98 Jr. Badgers team has over 20 members listed on their Web site if that's accurate. Guessing, but, no way Blades members paid to be a member of the Jr. Badgers or attend all their practices. Who would think, in their right mind, that it's a good idea to play for an open team in an open tournament. Not acting responsibly.
I understand what you are saying, Showcase should not allow Invite players to play in the open trny. Maybe if they play up a year. With that this is not MN Hockey / USA hockey which governs that a player can not play on two teams. While some AAA invite level teams to tend to have stricter rules some are more simple, such as : You cannot play with another invite level team at any time while on our team. I think it would be difficult and create a exodus of players if these teams decided what the kids do in their free time.

Currently showcase allows kids to play at both the open and invite level. They list that in their tournament rules.

puckfan
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Post by puckfan » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:13 pm

How are the Blades guilty? Sounds like the players participated in this tournament on their own. If your child is on say Team Easton, and they have the weekend off, do you want them told they cannot play in a MASH game with their friends?
I agree, the Blades have no guilt in this deal. If their players want to play with somebody else on their own free time, that's up to them( not sure if Blades have a rule against that or not).

Night Train
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Post by Night Train » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:19 pm

That's not what I said at all. What I said was tourney organizers don't police team rosters for curiosities. Maybe Bernie does as he didn't like the idea of a former player playing on a new team. That was a weird one. What I did say was it's the responsibility of the AAA organizations to run their programs with common sense and ethical behavior. Borrowing players from an invite level organization, and sitting your own kids, to try and win an open level tourney, isn't fair or ethical. Jr. Badger parents know that and the guilty Blade families know it too. I'm guessing they'll be told, you know what, don't do that again. You get flack, we get flack, just not worth it.

muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:21 pm

Night Train wrote:That's not what I said at all. What I said was tourney organizers don't police team rosters for curiosities. Maybe Bernie does as he didn't like the idea of a former player playing on a new team. That was a weird one. What I did say was it's the responsibility of the AAA organizations to run their programs with common sense and ethical behavior. Borrowing players from an invite level organization, and sitting your own kids, to try and win an open level tourney, isn't fair or ethical. Jr. Badger parents know that and the guilty Blade families know it too. I'm guessing they'll be told, you know what, don't do that again. You get flack, we get flack, just not worth it.
We can only hope, but I don't think that'll stop other teams from doing in the future. The Jr. Badgers aren't the first, and sadly, won't be the last to act in this manner.

My hope is that this will make parents think twice about signing their kid up to play with this team. Why should they fork over all that money only to have them bring in some ringers to play in the tourneys at the expense of their kid's ice time?

I'll definitely pass the word along to any parent looking into the Min/Wis Elite League.....STAY AWAY!!!!

iwearmysunglassesatnight
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Post by iwearmysunglassesatnight » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:50 pm

[quote="Night Train"]That's not what I said at all. What I said was tourney organizers don't police team rosters for curiosities. Maybe Bernie does as he didn't like the idea of a former player playing on a new team. That was a weird one. What I did say was it's the responsibility of the AAA organizations to run their programs with common sense and ethical behavior. Borrowing players from an invite level organization, and sitting your own kids, to try and win an open level tourney, isn't fair or ethical. Jr. Badger parents know that and the guilty Blade families know it too. I'm guessing they'll be told, you know what, don't do that again. You get flack, we get flack, just not worth it.[/quote]

I think this is your quote: "The Blades and Jr. Badgers are guilty of making things worse for local teams"
Was a duster and paying for it?????

hockeygirl2
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Post by hockeygirl2 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:28 pm

The difference between the wales and cambell conference was not that great. In fact, the best team for the 98's for both divisions was the Northern Wings. The next best team was probably the Minnesota Thunder. the bottom teams were probably worse, but the top four teams were very similar. I guess I don't see the difference between the Northern Wings bringing their "A" kids down to play in the tourney to the Blades plaing for the Jr. Badgers. It is an internal problem for the Badgers, I would think.

The Final Word
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Gimme a break!

Post by The Final Word » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:35 pm

I watched the 98 Badgers in the Championship without the Blades players and they had many opportunities to win and played the Thunder Bay team very tough only losing 2-1.
Why is it that some people are hung up on Blades, Machine, WI or MN? Is it really that big of a deal? My kids have friends from both sides of the river and play with multiple teams. Both "invite level teams and open level teams." So, what.... Playing with different kids, & talent make players better. Plus, they get to meet new kids and have fun!
Why should any lets say "good/invite" player(or the organization he may play with) be scrutinzied? Why should any player who wants to play hockey have to stay home because he plays on an invite teams (Such as the Blades or Machine), when there is other hockey tourneys to play in? Every weekend's tourney can't be an invite or an open tourney. So, those players who want to play more hockey can and should be able to do whatever they want to - without all the BS Whining. Isn't that what we all try to get away from in winter hockey.......? When when AAA Starts should any player(s) hold themselves back? THEY SHOULDN'T!
Ethics? Wow, now there is a can of worms......
* Is what the Machine doing by maditory practices, no life "ethical" for any kid? Is giving up on players who committ to such a thing 100% & then get let go to be replaced with someone else of equal or lesser abilities ethical?
* Is limiting any kid to play additional sports - ethical?
* Is being jeolous of other invite players playing additional hockey on any team bad just because he schooled your little johnny from getting a goal in AAA? :-(
* Is it wrong for any coach to look for calls while on the bench? Heck no, watch any pro, college, HS, AAA, or youth hockey game and it happens every game..... Good for that coach, he is obviously watching the game and looking out for his team.....
* Is it "ethical" or shall I say respectable to blog anything that points a negative finger at an organization, player or families for any reason?

I have a lot of respect for all AAA organizations and what they offer for kids. Think of how many kids get the opportunity to play AAA and how many associations benefit in the winter from this. All players can't play on all teams and have varying abilities, so it is good to have options for all. Along those same lines is the fact the many MN players choose to leave our MN associations and go to WI for the winter. Is this not the same thing some of you are whining about? Get over it and put your efforts into spending more time with your kids and not on a blog spinning your wheels on trying to tear down any org, player(s), and/or coaches. In the end, it is all a waste of time. The good players get known, the good teams/organizations speak for themselves and the players with the whining parents are singled out as well & are not wanted to be a part of most teams.
Go Blades, Go Machine, Go Badgers, GO Everyone! Get the best players you can, whenever you want, wherever you find them and we'll see you all at the next tourney. Win or Lose, I'll just be happy watching my own kids play hockey with smiles on their faces and getting better tourney after tourney - That's what is all about. Not the win/loss catagories....
Oh, BTW. I happened to check the Badgers site. What a great organization with a great site. And it looks like a WI player led their team in pts in the end..........
On another note. I enjoyed the Warrior Cup and hats off to that org. for putting on a nice tourney. Glad to have more options out there locally!

5thgraders
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Post by 5thgraders » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:35 pm

=D>

council member retired
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how is the trny marketing itself

Post by council member retired » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:40 pm

If the tournament is calling itself AAA, then any player should be allowed no matter how good they are. You should easily be able to find how these programs define AAA hockey. I believe part of it call for playing with and against elite players. If the tournament is called "rec" or something like that, then I don't think B/C players should have A players invading their tournament. Since the meltdown calls itself AAA then there is no problem. Perhaps MN spring and summer is ready for AA term for marketing their tournament and program.

muckandgrind
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Re: how is the trny marketing itself

Post by muckandgrind » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:00 pm

council member retired wrote:If the tournament is calling itself AAA, then any player should be allowed no matter how good they are. You should easily be able to find how these programs define AAA hockey. I believe part of it call for playing with and against elite players. If the tournament is called "rec" or something like that, then I don't think B/C players should have A players invading their tournament. Since the meltdown calls itself AAA then there is no problem. Perhaps MN spring and summer is ready for AA term for marketing their tournament and program.
The difference is that there are two Meltdown tournaments, the Open and the Invite. Typically, open-level teams are teams who's level of play is below the invite-level teams.

Let's compare it to men's softball. Anyone who's played it knows that it's frowned upon to have a team full of "ringers" or "A" players brought in to play in a "C" or "D" level tournament or league. It's generally an honor system that players follow.

The same thing should, and generally is, followed in youth hockey for the open level teams. It's widely accepted that these teams are not made up of invite-level players and that gives these players a chance to compete against players of similar abilities. My bet is that these Blades players did not pay the same money that your average Jr. Badgers player did to play for the team. In fact, I'm also willing to bet that these Blades players never even practiced with the team.....I'm thinking that the average player on the Jr Badgers didn't even know who the heck these kids were....yet these kids, who's parents never probably paid and who most likely never attended practice show up on game day are getting the majority of the ice time? Are you OK with that? If you're coaching that team, are you pleased with yourself?

If these Blades players are registered with the Jr. Badgers, pay the full amount and practice with the team, than I don't really see anything wrong with it....my bet is that none of this occurred.

I'd really like to hear from a parent on that team and hear what they have to say about it.....

There is no governing body for summer AAA hockey, so it's up to us as parents and coaches to play by the rules that are written and unwritten....if you want to stack your invite team, go right ahead, but bringing in ringers just to play in a open level tournament is bush league any way you look at it.

council member retired
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Location: Nordeast Mpls

Re: how is the trny marketing itself

Post by council member retired » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:16 pm

[quote="muckandgrind"][quote="council member retired"]If the tournament is calling itself AAA, then any player should be allowed no matter how good they are. You should easily be able to find how these programs define AAA hockey. I believe part of it call for playing with and against elite players. If the tournament is called "rec" or something like that, then I don't think B/C players should have A players invading their tournament. Since the meltdown calls itself AAA then there is no problem. Perhaps MN spring and summer is ready for AA term for marketing their tournament and program.[/quote]

The difference is that there are two Meltdown tournaments, the Open and the Invite. Typically, open-level teams are teams who's level of play is below the invite-level teams.

Let's compare it to men's softball. Anyone who's played it knows that it's frowned upon to have a team full of "ringers" or "A" players brought in to play in a "C" or "D" level tournament or league. It's generally an honor system that players follow.

The same thing should, and generally is, followed in youth hockey for the open level teams. It's widely accepted that these teams are not made up of invite-level players and that gives these players a chance to compete against players of similar abilities. My bet is that these Blades players did not pay the same money that your average Jr. Badgers player did to play for the team. In fact, I'm also willing to bet that these Blades players never even practiced with the team.....I'm thinking that the average player on the Jr Badgers didn't even know who the heck these kids were....yet these kids, who's parents never probably paid and who most likely never attended practice show up on game day are getting the majority of the ice time? Are you OK with that? If you're coaching that team, are you pleased with yourself?

If these Blades players are registered with the Jr. Badgers, pay the full amount and practice with the team, than I don't really see anything wrong with it....my bet is that none of this occurred.

I'd really like to hear from a parent on that team and hear what they have to say about it.....

There is no governing body for summer AAA hockey, so it's up to us as parents and coaches to play by the rules that are written and unwritten....if you want to stack your invite team, go right ahead, but bringing in ringers just to play in a open level tournament is bush league any way you look at it.[/quote]


Sure men's softball having A players in C and D trny is bush league, But doesn't the Meltdown Open call itself AAA? So if a top player from Dan Smith is in town and plays in the Crystal A level league it doesn't matter.

Maybe Showcase should not call their league and open trny AAA>

100percenteffort
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Re: how is the trny marketing itself

Post by 100percenteffort » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:40 pm

muckandgrind wrote:
council member retired wrote:If the tournament is calling itself AAA, then any player should be allowed no matter how good they are. You should easily be able to find how these programs define AAA hockey. I believe part of it call for playing with and against elite players. If the tournament is called "rec" or something like that, then I don't think B/C players should have A players invading their tournament. Since the meltdown calls itself AAA then there is no problem. Perhaps MN spring and summer is ready for AA term for marketing their tournament and program.
The difference is that there are two Meltdown tournaments, the Open and the Invite. Typically, open-level teams are teams who's level of play is below the invite-level teams.

Let's compare it to men's softball. Anyone who's played it knows that it's frowned upon to have a team full of "ringers" or "A" players brought in to play in a "C" or "D" level tournament or league. It's generally an honor system that players follow.

The same thing should, and generally is, followed in youth hockey for the open level teams. It's widely accepted that these teams are not made up of invite-level players and that gives these players a chance to compete against players of similar abilities. My bet is that these Blades players did not pay the same money that your average Jr. Badgers player did to play for the team. In fact, I'm also willing to bet that these Blades players never even practiced with the team.....I'm thinking that the average player on the Jr Badgers didn't even know who the heck these kids were....yet these kids, who's parents never probably paid and who most likely never attended practice show up on game day are getting the majority of the ice time? Are you OK with that? If you're coaching that team, are you pleased with yourself?

If these Blades players are registered with the Jr. Badgers, pay the full amount and practice with the team, than I don't really see anything wrong with it....my bet is that none of this occurred.

I'd really like to hear from a parent on that team and hear what they have to say about it.....

There is no governing body for summer AAA hockey, so it's up to us as parents and coaches to play by the rules that are written and unwritten....if you want to stack your invite team, go right ahead, but bringing in ringers just to play in a open level tournament is bush league any way you look at it.
MG, I appreciate the fact you are trying to protect your "open" level player, but Council Member is right, what is the difference between an "open" and "invite" tournament player? The Blades did not play in the "open" tournament, a few players might have, but that does not make the"team" an "invite" TEAM. BTW, have you looked at the Badgers roster... and do you think any of these kids have practiced together? They are from all over the state of Wisconsin with a few from Minnesota. It's called a "Tournament team". If you look at the Snipers 98 team did you notice they had "invite" level players, but coincidently did not have their roster posted in the program. Just call it what it is.......a AA tournament.

muckandgrind
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Re: how is the trny marketing itself

Post by muckandgrind » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:50 pm

100percenteffort wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:
council member retired wrote:If the tournament is calling itself AAA, then any player should be allowed no matter how good they are. You should easily be able to find how these programs define AAA hockey. I believe part of it call for playing with and against elite players. If the tournament is called "rec" or something like that, then I don't think B/C players should have A players invading their tournament. Since the meltdown calls itself AAA then there is no problem. Perhaps MN spring and summer is ready for AA term for marketing their tournament and program.
The difference is that there are two Meltdown tournaments, the Open and the Invite. Typically, open-level teams are teams who's level of play is below the invite-level teams.

Let's compare it to men's softball. Anyone who's played it knows that it's frowned upon to have a team full of "ringers" or "A" players brought in to play in a "C" or "D" level tournament or league. It's generally an honor system that players follow.

The same thing should, and generally is, followed in youth hockey for the open level teams. It's widely accepted that these teams are not made up of invite-level players and that gives these players a chance to compete against players of similar abilities. My bet is that these Blades players did not pay the same money that your average Jr. Badgers player did to play for the team. In fact, I'm also willing to bet that these Blades players never even practiced with the team.....I'm thinking that the average player on the Jr Badgers didn't even know who the heck these kids were....yet these kids, who's parents never probably paid and who most likely never attended practice show up on game day are getting the majority of the ice time? Are you OK with that? If you're coaching that team, are you pleased with yourself?

If these Blades players are registered with the Jr. Badgers, pay the full amount and practice with the team, than I don't really see anything wrong with it....my bet is that none of this occurred.

I'd really like to hear from a parent on that team and hear what they have to say about it.....

There is no governing body for summer AAA hockey, so it's up to us as parents and coaches to play by the rules that are written and unwritten....if you want to stack your invite team, go right ahead, but bringing in ringers just to play in a open level tournament is bush league any way you look at it.
MG, I appreciate the fact you are trying to protect your "open" level player, but Council Member is right, what is the difference between an "open" and "invite" tournament player? The Blades did not play in the "open" tournament, a few players might have, but that does not make the"team" an "invite" TEAM. BTW, have you looked at the Badgers roster... and do you think any of these kids have practiced together? They are from all over the state of Wisconsin with a few from Minnesota. It's called a "Tournament team". If you look at the Snipers 98 team did you notice they had "invite" level players, but coincidently did not have their roster posted in the program. Just call it what it is.......a AA tournament.
If you have to ask that question, than it's obvious you haven't been around summer AAA hockey.

That's what the Meltdown open basically is, a AA tournament. The definition of "open" means that is is basically Tier II AAA. or AA. "AAA" doesn't really mean anything, it's a marketing ploy. There are very, very few true "AAA" calibre summer teams in this state. People who have been around know what's up. This is why you don't see teams like the Blades, Machine, Icemen, LSS at this tournament..whatever, it's not like I'm losing sleep over the matter...load up with all the Machine, Blades and Icemen players you want and go after that trophy. If I'm coaching a team full of invite players, I would've had them play in the Warrior Cup instead, much better competition as many of the teams in that tournament were closer to that invite level of play. Not quite the Blades or Machine, but pretty close.

BTW - I'm not trying to protect "my open level player" as it's been a few years since either of my sons have played in this tournament. I'm just responding to what was posted earlier on this thread.

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