2000 MACHINE VS 2000 BLADES

play4fun · Post by **play4fun** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:54 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
low stick wrote:1 GAME IN THE BOOKS SO FAR

MACHINE 6 -- BLADES 3
Does anyone have the score for the 2000 championship game?

Machine 3 -- Blades 1.

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:54 pm

that sounds like a decent score for a 2000 level game. Did they play on the olympic size at plymouth, if so even more impressive

nhl'er · Post by **nhl'er** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:59 am

Went up to MG and watched both games against these two clubs. 1st game was very even with similiar time in each end of the rink, equal shots on net. Machine capitalized on their scoring opportunities and the Blades didn't. Stronger goaltending by the Machine. Second game was more or less controlled by the Blades with the puck in the Machine zone probably 75% of the game, shorts were probably 2/1 or 3/1 in favor of the Blades. Machine goalie played well again. These two teams are very closely matched in talent, maybe a slight edge to the Blades in overall team speed, the big difference between these two teams right now is goaltending. There should be some great games in the future between these two clubs. Congrats to both teams. Fun to watch.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:06 pm

nhl'er wrote:Went up to MG and watched both games against these two clubs. 1st game was very even with similiar time in each end of the rink, equal shots on net. Machine capitalized on their scoring opportunities and the Blades didn't. Stronger goaltending by the Machine. Second game was more or less controlled by the Blades with the puck in the Machine zone probably 75% of the game, shorts were probably 2/1 or 3/1 in favor of the Blades. Machine goalie played well again. These two teams are very closely matched in talent, maybe a slight edge to the Blades in overall team speed, the big difference between these two teams right now is goaltending. There should be some great games in the future between these two clubs. Congrats to both teams. Fun to watch.

Thank you for the info

Dave's a mess! · Post by **Dave's a mess!** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:32 pm

nhl'er wrote:Went up to MG and watched both games against these two clubs. 1st game was very even with similiar time in each end of the rink, equal shots on net. Machine capitalized on their scoring opportunities and the Blades didn't. Stronger goaltending by the Machine. Second game was more or less controlled by the Blades with the puck in the Machine zone probably 75% of the game, shorts were probably 2/1 or 3/1 in favor of the Blades. Machine goalie played well again. These two teams are very closely matched in talent, maybe a slight edge to the Blades in overall team speed, the big difference between these two teams right now is goaltending. There should be some great games in the future between these two clubs. Congrats to both teams. Fun to watch.

A little side note to the two match ups over the weekend between the Blades and the Machine. In both games the Machine had to play an earlier game and the Blades didn't so one would think that the Blades kids would have had a bit of an advantage in the energy department but it didn't show on the scoreboard. Also remember that both games (and all games in the 00 bracket) were played on the Olympic sheet so maybe the Blades should have had an even bigger edge.

Dave's a mess! · Post by **Dave's a mess!** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:50 pm

HockeyGuy37 wrote:YeahYeahYeah
I am not tip toeing around anything...I have a son in the program and we are excited about it and I am happy to help promote the program.
I will re-phrase my original post to say - I heard a lot of the top 2000's from the Northern Suburbs are skating Miracle.
I watched some of the evaluations and know some of the boys skating the 2000 program who are very skilled and the parents told me they turned down the programs mentioned to skate the Miracle program for various reasons.
I personally never met Herb Brooks but it sounds like he may have been a close personal friend of yours...
My posting was in reply to the original post Blades / Machine...From the sounds of it, the base may be broadening with many skilled kids staying closer to home and choosing to participate in programs like the Miracle, Monopoly and Easton. That works for me...

Looking back on this thread - couldn't leave this one alone.

HG37 you need to check your facts. Being invited to the Blades or Machine tryouts (or just going to them for that matter) doesn't constitute "turning them down to skate for the Miracle". There aren't any (none, zero, nada) kids playing for the Miracle that turned down the Blades or Machine. In fact it is quite the opposite - there are four kids that played for the 99 Miracle last year that are now playing for the 00 Blades and Machine (two each) - that is FACT.

I'm not contradicting what you heard: "that a lot of the top 2000 players in the northern suburbs are skating Miracle " because I think that is true and there is plenty of talent out there (probably too much for just one or two teams). But what you said you "heard" is untrue. Go ahead and happily promote your team but do it in a factual manner and at least check your sources.

gilmour · Post by **gilmour** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:25 pm

Dave's a mess! wrote:
HockeyGuy37 wrote:YeahYeahYeah
I am not tip toeing around anything...I have a son in the program and we are excited about it and I am happy to help promote the program.
I will re-phrase my original post to say - I heard a lot of the top 2000's from the Northern Suburbs are skating Miracle.
I watched some of the evaluations and know some of the boys skating the 2000 program who are very skilled and the parents told me they turned down the programs mentioned to skate the Miracle program for various reasons.
I personally never met Herb Brooks but it sounds like he may have been a close personal friend of yours...
My posting was in reply to the original post Blades / Machine...From the sounds of it, the base may be broadening with many skilled kids staying closer to home and choosing to participate in programs like the Miracle, Monopoly and Easton. That works for me...
Looking back on this thread - couldn't leave this one alone.

HG37 you need to check your facts. Being invited to the Blades or Machine tryouts (or just going to them for that matter) doesn't constitute "turning them down to skate for the Miracle". There aren't any (none, zero, nada) kids playing for the Miracle that turned down the Blades or Machine. In fact it is quite the opposite - there are four kids that played for the 99 Miracle last year that are now playing for the 00 Blades and Machine (two each) - that is FACT.

I'm not contradicting what you heard: "that a lot of the top 2000 players in the northern suburbs are skating Miracle " because I think that is true and there is plenty of talent out there (probably too much for just one or two teams). But what you said you "heard" is untrue. Go ahead and happily promote your team but do it in a factual manner and at least check your sources.

Looks like Dave's a Killer!

noIinteam · Post by **noIinteam** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:30 pm

Machine was the only 00' team to have all 5 games on the olympic sheet

Big rink wore the boys in orange down over the course of the weekend

Blades only had 2 games on the big rink - the 2 games they lost vs. Machine and both were 2nd games for the orange while the Blades had fresh legs?

Blades 1 TH/ 1 FR/ 2 SAT/ 1 SUN

Machine 1 FR/ 2 SAT/ 2 SUN

Match these 2 up again on a regular sheet and the result would be even more definitive!!!

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:04 pm

omg i see this heading at every birth year. i just cant beleive they can fit all this talent on one ice sheet or make the doors big enough for all the heads to get in

EnjoyTheShow · Post by **EnjoyTheShow** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:30 pm

Dave's a mess! wrote:
nhl'er wrote:Went up to MG and watched both games against these two clubs. 1st game was very even with similiar time in each end of the rink, equal shots on net. Machine capitalized on their scoring opportunities and the Blades didn't. Stronger goaltending by the Machine. Second game was more or less controlled by the Blades with the puck in the Machine zone probably 75% of the game, shorts were probably 2/1 or 3/1 in favor of the Blades. Machine goalie played well again. These two teams are very closely matched in talent, maybe a slight edge to the Blades in overall team speed, the big difference between these two teams right now is goaltending. There should be some great games in the future between these two clubs. Congrats to both teams. Fun to watch.
A little side note to the two match ups over the weekend between the Blades and the Machine. In both games the Machine had to play an earlier game and the Blades didn't so one would think that the Blades kids would have had a bit of an advantage in the energy department but it didn't show on the scoreboard. Also remember that both games (and all games in the 00 bracket) were played on the Olympic sheet so maybe the Blades should have had an even bigger edge.

Apparently the Orange weren't too tired. They had at least 2 kids barely see the ice in the Final game. There were also a couple kids that rarely saw the bench. I am curious if the kids that sat are really that far behind the rest? IMHO conditioning is a minor issue at the 2000 age level. Experience however, will benefit the kids that get to play a lot!

iwearmysunglassesatnight · Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:11 pm

[quote="noIinteam"]Machine was the only 00' team to have all 5 games on the olympic sheet

Big rink wore the boys in orange down over the course of the weekend

Blades only had 2 games on the big rink - the 2 games they lost vs. Machine and both were 2nd games for the orange while the Blades had fresh legs?

Blades 1 TH/ 1 FR/ 2 SAT/ 1 SUN

Machine 1 FR/ 2 SAT/ 2 SUN

Match these 2 up again on a regular sheet and the result would be even more definitive!!![/quote]

Congrats on your girlfriends son trny win. You don't need to justify why you write the check(s) to MM. Enjoy it and hopefully it works out for her and him.

TheJet · Post by **TheJet** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:25 am

Agree with Enjoy - one player in particular played one total shift in the combined two games. Win at all costs I guess. Hopefully this was communicated to the kids/parents when they signed up and wrote the big check.

The goalie for the Machine was exceptional!

Great game, event, crowds & was very fun to watch.

dakotakid · Post by **dakotakid** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:44 am

Am I wrong or is summer hockey for the boys to develope and improve for the winter season? I have 3 boys playing AAA hockey and I coach. If a team from the metro area can't find 15 players that all can play at that level there is something wrong. Why do you think high school and collage teams roll 3 or 4 lines. If my son was on a team that the third line did not play I'd move him to a new team.It's not about the win, It's about development.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:33 am

dakotakid wrote:Am I wrong or is summer hockey for the boys to develope and improve for the winter season? I have 3 boys playing AAA hockey and I coach. If a team from the metro area can't find 15 players that all can play at that level there is something wrong. Why do you think high school and collage teams roll 3 or 4 lines. If my son was on a team that the third line did not play I'd move him to a new team.It's not about the win, It's about development.

Dak Kid, I will answer your development question as many before me have. It isn't about play time in the tourneys if you truely believe because that is all about winning for MM. it is about getting practice time with some of the top talent in the state that will develop the kids. Selling that to your son is another issue all together. Kids want to play so it is tough to get them to buy in to sitting the bench and believe that they belong. In the long run they will either quit the elite team and play at the lower level or it might light a fire and make them compete to earn a spot. In my experience the Parents are the ones that can't handle the sitting cause they need their egos stroked watching billy or johnny score a goal.

dakotakid · Post by **dakotakid** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:46 am

I agree with the practice time statement, but you can't tell me there is that big a difrence between the first line and the second or third. The kids also get a chance to implement there skills thay have learned in all that practice time. Is'nt the playing of a game the reward for all our hard work. You can practice all you want but to really get better at something you have to do it. Why do you think they play 60 to 80 games at the jr. and major jr. levels. There is no substitute for game time.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:02 am

dakotakid wrote:I agree with the practice time statement, but you can't tell me there is that big a difrence between the first line and the second or third. The kids also get a chance to implement there skills thay have learned in all that practice time. Is'nt the playing of a game the reward for all our hard work. You can practice all you want but to really get better at something you have to do it. Why do you think they play 60 to 80 games at the jr. and major jr. levels. There is no substitute for game time.

I ain't sayin Im just sayin. Bernie needs to Win to perpetuate his image of having an elite team. He will do anything. including humiliate kids and parents to win. Good or Bad you decide. There is a difference on every team from the top to the bottom (again parents have a hard time seeing that). Most teams give the kids the chance to develop. In my view, don't put a kid out on the power play that won't succed until he has the confidence and or talent to perform.

Dave's a mess! · Post by **Dave's a mess!** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:03 am

dakotakid wrote:Am I wrong or is summer hockey for the boys to develope and improve for the winter season? I have 3 boys playing AAA hockey and I coach. If a team from the metro area can't find 15 players that all can play at that level there is something wrong. Why do you think high school and collage teams roll 3 or 4 lines. If my son was on a team that the third line did not play I'd move him to a new team.It's not about the win, It's about development.

With an approximately 5 - 1 practice to game ratio (or more) for most summer programs most of the development takes place in the PRACTICES. I think a lot of people get hung up on fact that some of the kids are seeing limited ice during the games and figure those kids are being neglected and missing out on development (so now 140 hours of practices over the summer apparently isn't enough development time?). The games are only a small portion of the formula. As far as the games go the fact of the matter is some kids (and kids of similar ability) are just flat out better when the puck drops and for at least the Machine those are the kids that get the most ice time. Agree or disagree but that's how they run it. I think parents of the kids that aren't getting as much game ice time would have to be happy that their kids are getting some good practice time (or they should leave) and obviously the parents of the kids that get the majority of the game ice time would have nothing to complain about. I guess the point I'm making is don't get "short benches" mixed in with "lack of development". Last time I checked the point of playing a game was to. . . starts with a "w", ends with a "n" with a vowel in between. . . There's plenty of time for development in practices and these other crazy things called scrimmages.

So "dakotakid" I guess it's a matter of philosophy. Everyone knows how MM runs their teams so if they didn't agree with it they wouldn't be there. You are wrong, however, about the HS and College teams - if ANYTHING they run their benches the exact same way MM does with theirs. Those teams are all about winning. Maybe a few stacked teams like Edina or Duluth East "roll" their lines every now and then but when it matters most the first line is always the first option (or maybe you didn't see the state HS hockey tourney this last year).

Lowstickside · Post by **Lowstickside** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:09 am

On development: Can't believe a kid sitting, especially a 9 year old! Subword of player is play and all the kids want to do is play. If the player cannot keep up then he/she should be on one of the lower tier teams. Working hard in practice builds the skills that help you to succeed and have more fun in games. This builds confidence, while sitting hurts confidence IMO.

In a year, most will not remember scores and games, in two years, completly wiped out of the memory banks. These are totally meaningless games when looked at realistically. Games and practices are for development and fun. Tournaments are fun, so why not play?

Youth coaches who shorten the bench for the entire game as opposed to the ending of a close game of an important special team situation are killing the development of good kids. Again, sorry to be negative regarding your exitement about these talented 9 year olds, but at least half of these kids will not be on these rosters for one reason or another in 3-4 years, and will not be competing or even able to compete at the high end of AAA summer hockey by the time they are 13-14 years old. Have fun now, let the kids play, and try to realize how trivial Machne/Blades banter really is.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:13 am

Lowstickside wrote:On development: Can't believe a kid sitting, especially a 9 year old! Subword of player is play and all the kids want to do is play. If the player cannot keep up then he/she should be on one of the lower tier teams. Working hard in practice builds the skills that help you to succeed and have more fun in games. This builds confidence, while sitting hurts confidence IMO.

In a year, most will not remember scores and games, in two years, completly wiped out of the memory banks. These are totally meaningless games when looked at realistically. Games and practices are for development and fun. Tournaments are fun, so why not play?

Youth coaches who shorten the bench for the entire game as opposed to the ending of a close game of an important special team situation are killing the development of good kids. Again, sorry to be negative regarding your exitement about these talented 9 year olds, but at least half of these kids will not be on these rosters for one reason or another in 3-4 years, and will not be competing or even able to compete at the high end of AAA summer hockey by the time they are 13-14 years old. Have fun now, let the kids play, and try to realize how trivial Machne/Blades banter really is.

Amen! Nice post! Add one thing. Be Happy that you and your kid gets a chance to experience the great sport of hockey. Meet new Friends and develop as a person.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:27 am

Lowstickside wrote:On development: Can't believe a kid sitting, especially a 9 year old! Subword of player is play and all the kids want to do is play. If the player cannot keep up then he/she should be on one of the lower tier teams. Working hard in practice builds the skills that help you to succeed and have more fun in games. This builds confidence, while sitting hurts confidence IMO.

In a year, most will not remember scores and games, in two years, completly wiped out of the memory banks. These are totally meaningless games when looked at realistically. Games and practices are for development and fun. Tournaments are fun, so why not play?

Youth coaches who shorten the bench for the entire game as opposed to the ending of a close game of an important special team situation are killing the development of good kids. Again, sorry to be negative regarding your exitement about these talented 9 year olds, but at least half of these kids will not be on these rosters for one reason or another in 3-4 years, and will not be competing or even able to compete at the high end of AAA summer hockey by the time they are 13-14 years old. Have fun now, let the kids play, and try to realize how trivial Machne/Blades banter really is.

There is usually some turnover, but I'm not sure that 1/2 of team will be turned over. You'd be surprised by how many stick.

Most of the time, both the players and kids are told at the beginning of summer if their kid is a "practice player" or "tournament player", and in most programs, the practice players pay less. Sometimes, however, they will allow a practice player to dress for a tournament game...all the while understanding they may not get much action.

Many programs will schedule scrimmages in addition to the tournaments and in those scrimmages they usually allow the practice players to play equally with everyone else.

Sure, tournaments are fun, but teams also play to win...there is nothing wrong with putting your best team on the ice....within the rules.

dakotakid · Post by **dakotakid** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:54 am

Dave's a mess! wrote:
dakotakid wrote:Am I wrong or is summer hockey for the boys to develope and improve for the winter season? I have 3 boys playing AAA hockey and I coach. If a team from the metro area can't find 15 players that all can play at that level there is something wrong. Why do you think high school and collage teams roll 3 or 4 lines. If my son was on a team that the third line did not play I'd move him to a new team.It's not about the win, It's about development.
With an approximately 5 - 1 practice to game ratio (or more) for most summer programs most of the development takes place in the PRACTICES. I think a lot of people get hung up on fact that some of the kids are seeing limited ice during the games and figure those kids are being neglected and missing out on development (so now 140 hours of practices over the summer apparently isn't enough development time?). The games are only a small portion of the formula. As far as the games go the fact of the matter is some kids (and kids of similar ability) are just flat out better when the puck drops and for at least the Machine those are the kids that get the most ice time. Agree or disagree but that's how they run it. I think parents of the kids that aren't getting as much game ice time would have to be happy that their kids are getting some good practice time (or they should leave) and obviously the parents of the kids that get the majority of the game ice time would have nothing to complain about. I guess the point I'm making is don't get "short benches" mixed in with "lack of development". Last time I checked the point of playing a game was to. . . starts with a "w", ends with a "n" with a vowel in between. . . There's plenty of time for development in practices and these other crazy things called scrimmages.

So "dakotakid" I guess it's a matter of philosophy. Everyone knows how MM runs their teams so if they didn't agree with it they wouldn't be there. You are wrong, however, about the HS and College teams - if ANYTHING they run their benches the exact same way MM does with theirs. Those teams are all about winning. Maybe a few stacked teams like Edina or Duluth East "roll" their lines every now and then but when it matters most the first line is always the first option (or maybe you didn't see the state HS hockey tourney this last year).

You could'nt be more wrong if the U of M or UND played 2 lines thay would get beat every time. The third and forth lines are called checking lines. to give the top lines a rest and keep them fresh. We have all seen teams with a short bench get beat by a team with deepth. I am pretty sure the orange team has deepth.They should roll lines unless the game is on the line in the third.

Sk8 Str8 · Post by **Sk8 Str8** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:07 am

The high school and college discussion notwithstanding, all top tier AAA teams want to win every game they play--it helps with recruiting and with improving the "franchise". At the '99 and '00 level, a couple of top kids can make the difference in most games and will see the ice more...not all teams issue press releases following tournaments, but in the interest of making sure we all know the results from this weeks Meltdown, MN Made helped us with a publice service announcement.

Machine Teams Sweep the Meltdown

All five of the boy’s Machine teams won the Championships in the Minnesota Meltdown Tournament this last weekend. There were no losses for any of the boys teams all weekend.

2000 Machine 3 Minnesota Blades 1

1999 Machine 5 Manitoba Selects 2

1998 Machine 3 Minnesota Blades 2

1997 Machine 4 Chicago Young Americans 2

1996 Machine 4 Minnesota Blades 1

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:12 am

Good grief. I've had reservations regarding the alliance; I am still skeptical that it will end well for those investing time and money into it. However, it is apparent that there needs to be a multi-tiered system; not divided by the talent of the kids, but by the attitudes of the parents.

Skate hard for 100+ hours, win the game/tournament form a line to the right.

Sing Kum Ba Yah while roasting marshmallows for the post game snack, please stay to the left.

Both sides feel the need to defend themselves and their approaches, however, neither of these approaches is incorrect; it depends on your own child. If he's gung-ho and you have the wherewithal to feed his desire, then go for it. If he's having as much fun in the pool as he is on the ice, then load the cart with Little Debbies. Horsewhipping the kid who'd rather be making mud pies will make him hate the game; the same result will occur if you try to replace competition with a juice box and a bag of multi-colored goldfish to the kid that can't get enough.

TheJet · Post by **TheJet** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:38 am

My take with respect to the little guys - Personally I have no problem shortening the bench so long as the communication was there. But my gut says it was not. If anything, it's good the kids/familys had the message sent now versus in Canada, etc. when they had invested additional $ in travel.

By the time they get to HS and College I think it (sitting the bench) is more expected by all, so sort of a moot point to bring that into this loop.

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:12 pm

You guys are missing the prestige part of parents being able to say their kids are part of these top programs. The programs will take your money, you get to claim Johnny is on the team, and then he plays 30% less than someone else.

I heard there will be 1994 boys traveling to Toronto Prospects this weekend where families will pay significant dollars for the opportunity to crow about their son attending and some players will barely get a sniff of the ice. Ouch.